The Root Of Our Problems

[Guest]

I am reading all these posts and comments, then looking at what is happening around me. A 17 year old Hispanic student is stabbed to death by 3 Armenian teens, who turn out to be part of the gang known as Armenian Power (one of the 3 is a 14 year old female). The community is outraged. During a live TV show an Armenian woman calls and announces that ~there is no need to make a big deal of things, since they will cry for a few days and forget the whole thing, after all Hispanics have so many kids~ ... A few days after, couple of Hispanic teens open fire on an Armenian 18 year old standing in front of a fast food joint. The boy is shot in the leg and taken to a hospital. ... On the day of the funeral of the Hispanic boy, Armenian Power members show up on the site and throw their gang signs (and later are taken to the police station)... I see, hear, observe and absorb all this information and wonder to myself? Where does this all stop? No no no ... Where did this all START? How did we as people lose control of our youth? People are not born criminals or murderers. Lack of disciplinary action and famil values, morals is what has brought us to this point. For some reason Armenian parents (not all of course) have given up the age old task of raising their kids. Raising a child is not the same thing as takine care of his financial needs and having a roof over their heads. Many Armenian children and teens are growing up without receiving any disciplinlary action from their parents. The parents blame the system for not letting them raise their kids the way they want (they mean beating)... so they decide that they have no other role to play. They just give up and complain "es inch yerkir a." That is the easy way out ... you do not waste energy and don't feel guilty either. But ... then you have to eat the fruits you have planted and they are bitter as hell.

 

In my opinion, reagardless of what most parents say - the family plays a much more important role in a childs or teen's development than the outside (school, friends, TV). If the person is tought the morals and values one needs in order to live an honorable and honest life - all the negative forces and influences will not be bale to bring him or her down. I should also note that these values and morals should be present in the family. Preaching will not do much if you don't practice what you preach. I just hope Armenian parents will stop for a second and ask themselves? Am I giving my child what I should be giving If I expect him or her to be an asset to the society and not a mennace? How I hope things will change...

[Guest]

Armenians have very stroung values or should I say... HAD very strong values? I see, here, in Canada, the Armenian youth is disgusting! Becoming american crap! The parents don't realize it! I'm afraid this will never end and all this community will be lost in a few generations.

If I went to Los Angeles and said "HI" to members of Armenian Power, you think they would shoot me if they didn't like me? I think they would. Is this Armenian Power? I'm confused.

[Guest]

you know what, that's too much!!!!

you're right Raffi!

Armo youth in America can be very disgusting!!!

are you crazy out there??????

you are so different from the hayastantsi Armenians.....

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nvard:
you know what, that's too much!!!!
you're right Raffi!
Armo youth in America can be very disgusting!!!
are you crazy out there??????
you are so different from the hayastantsi Armenians.....

---

Nvard,

Newsflash. These are the same "hayastantsi Armenians" dear. Your country of origin does not determine who you become in USA. It is how you are brought up.

[Guest]

Thanks Nvard.

Sulamita, what do you mean by " these are the same 'hayastansi Armenians' " ?

[Guest]

WHat I think Sulamita means is that many of the Armenian gang members are from Hayastan and the former SOviet Republics( If not most) I hate to sound like I am being a snooty Barskahay, but there was no such thing as Armenian gangs when I came to California in the early 80s. After the break up of the Soviet Union a mass emigration to the U.S began, of all Soviet nationals, and it is well documented that many joined organized crime and gangs.

[Guest]

Raffi,

 

Stever answered your question... well kind of. I do not want to blame all evils of our community on Hayastantis. Far from it. I am hayastantsi myself and know my people well. There are armenians from different countries in those gangs, INCLUDING Hayastan. That was my whole point. And these are not kids who were born here or were brought here when 2 or 3. Many newly immigrated hayastantsi kids come here and join gangs (the reasons can be discuess at a later time). But again, the same goes for everyone.

 

The point made by Steve about the increase of organized crime and such after the break up of the Soviet Union is a fact. There is much more organized AND unoraganized crime in the former Soviet countries and there was also a spillover effect into the USA. The Soviet mentality (with its bad and good aspects) will not dissapear overnight. We need many many years for that.

[Guest]

I see...

I, personally, have always hated the Soviet (Russian) influence. The russian people seem to have lost all of their values and spreading the trend to the former USSR countries. ***, drugs and mafia are quite some serious problems in Russia and Armenia is influenced. It's true, young Armenians grew in this environnement. I hope we will be able to fix this problem.

Btw... I am not Hayastantsi.

[Guest]

Would you stop critisizing the Hayastan Armenians????????????

they are the ones that get all the sufferings!!!

the armos in other countries don't even imagine what it is like:Earthquakes, War ,Economical Crisis!!

that is the "root of our problems"!!!

Sitting in a chair and critisizing will keep us disunited even longer.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nvard:
Would you stop critisizing the Hayastan Armenians????????????
they are the ones that get all the sufferings!!!
the armos in other countries don't even imagine what it is like:Earthquakes, War ,Economical Crisis!!
that is the "root of our problems"!!!
Sitting in a chair and critisizing will keep us disunited even longer.

---

Nvard,

Come again? Who was this comment directed at? Maybe you should read the posts more closely. And just to make a point, the Armenians in Lebanon ALSO went through war and as a result, socio-economic hardships. We should not undermind the situation of other people. Yes Armenia DID suffer tremendously ... but you can't say that other people don't sympathise. That is not right. And nobody is criticising nobody ... just stating facts.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Raffi Y:
I see...
I, personally, have always hated the Soviet (Russian) influence. The russian people seem to have lost all of their values and spreading the trend to the former USSR countries. ***, drugs and mafia are quite some serious problems in Russia and Armenia is influenced. It's true, young Armenians grew in this environnement. I hope we will be able to fix this problem.
Btw... I am not Hayastantsi.

---

Raffi,

Ha ha ha ha ha ... Again, the extremes we go to This image you have in your head is not somethin new for me. The influence of the West has been very strong and it has brainwashed a whole generation. The Soviet years had many many many positive influences (along with the negative ones). And all those things you mentioned were not fruits of the Soviet regime. Those things prevail all over the world, more in some countries of course. Just take some time and analyze things better

[Guest]

Nvard, you are right that we shouldn't critisize Hayastantsi Armenians but we are only looking at fact I think, most armenian gang youth ar from Armenia. Despite the love and the respect I have towards the my brothers and sisters who stayed there, the youth coming in the USA and joining gangs are from Armenia, no?

Sulamita, just look at the social situation of Russia, I have Russian friends who tell me how it is with the drugs and *** there, I'm not critisizing the whole Western Society. A Syirian friend told me how the prostitutes in Syria are almost all Russians... Russia is the "USA" of Armenia.

You say, yes but they are Armenia' model. Don't you see a problem ?

Besides military protection against the Turks, what did the Russians bring to Armenia which is so great ?

[Guest]

nayek herrika Hayastantsy dzverits kaxvek

enpes ek asum kartses Hayastantsina Gang Berel USA kam chkar ester et tesak ban . sireliner AP`' Sksvel e 1977 LA'um yete chgitek imatsek . skzbits yerrel em 7 @enkerner miyak patjar@ AP Skselu yerel e vor pahpanen Hayerin pashtpanen . te heto inch a dartsel arten bolors gitenk .

Ap mej kan Hayastantsiner . Berutsiner , Parskahayer , Tajkahayer , yev iylen.

yekek boloris problem@ menak HAyastantsineri vra chdnenk . yev matnatsuyts anelov araj gnank . sa voch mekin el lavutyun chi anum urraki vorosh martkants qaq srti mxitarank e iytkan mi ban .

knerek iyspes xoselu hamar urraki tsavali e yerb HAyer@ arandznatsnum en myusnerin .

geretsik chi lini yerb yes el sksem nuyn@ .

 

inch iravunk unes aselu vor amborj mijin asyaum hima prostitutes are Armenian or Russian ?

inchi Parsik prostitutes kam Arab prostitutes qich en ?

Ruyrrbani me hat gna Kabare tehran tes inchkan PArsik kam Parskahay ka vro talis en Rurrban qezi Chotori .

de lav hangist mnatsek ,

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Raffi Y:
Sulamita, just look at the social situation of Russia, I have Russian friends who tell me how it is with the drugs and *** there, I'm not critisizing the whole Western Society. A Syirian friend told me how the prostitutes in Syria are almost all Russians... Russia is the "USA" of Armenia.
You say, yes but they are Armenia' model. Don't you see a problem ?
Besides military protection against the Turks, what did the Russians bring to Armenia which is so great ?

---

Raffi,

Russia is in a transitional state, what did you expect? Drugs and ***? Is that something lacking in the USA, Canada or any of the European countries? Yes, we hear about those things in Russia, because they have all this newly found freedom on hand - they are catching up on 70 years of stagnation. The same is in Armenia - a major ***ual revolution. We would be a fool to expect anything different. Those countries are going through what the USA went throug back in the 60's. Regarding the prostitutes in Syria, yes - a lot of women have hit the road to make money (sadly including Armenian women) - you will find them in Iran, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, etc. But again, there are socio-economic reasons for that (I am not justifying the lack of morals).

Russia is not a model for Armenia ... its like an older brother. Lets face it, we are not yet ready to stand alone, we need someone to be there for us, someone to lean on. Have better ideas?

[Guest]

Armenians are a pure people and have been for almost 3 000 years, is there a solution to the problem of western influence ? Sulamita, you're talking like you don't really care and that this is just a natural thing. We always see things happening in the USA as normal and as the right thing... NO NO NO! So what if America had a ***ual revolution !? And I don't care what happened in the 60's in the USA because it doesn't have to happen to Armenia... we are our own people. Please, stop using the USA as THE reference of excellence.

PS. Sorry if I got carried away.

With much respect.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Raffi Y:
Armenians are a pure people and have been for almost 3 000 years, is there a solution to the problem of western influence ? Sulamita, you're talking like you don't really care and that this is just a natural thing. We always see things happening in the USA as normal and as the right thing... NO NO NO! So what if America had a ***ual revolution !? And I don't care what happened in the 60's in the USA because it doesn't have to happen to Armenia... we are our own people. Please, stop using the USA as THE reference of excellence.
PS. Sorry if I got carried away.
With much respect.

---

Raffi,

Please don't crucify me for being realistic. Armenians are people, just like all the other nationalities and they are not immune to human nature. Purity was something that Armenian women posessed back in 1915 and preferred to die rather than be raped by a Turk or Kurd. Things have changed, life has changed. And yes those are natural things - you can't deny a person his nature by preaching "You are Armenian !!! You shall not desire ***!!!" That is ridiculus. And I am not using the "USA as THE reference of excellence." The same applies to all countries. I could have used France for all it matters. You can live in denial all you want and convince yourself that "it doesn't have to happen to Armenia... we are our own people." Yes, we ARE ONLY PEOPLE.

And just to let you know - I do care. I care more than you will ever know. And no matter how realisticly I discuss this subject and put logic into it ... deep inside I cringe when I remember the lack of morals that exists back in my homeland. And I cringe ever time I remember the things I witnessed in every day life (during the night hours mostly). Please, don't think that I don't care. I am an armenian woman and I would love to be able to hold my head higher as a representative of a group of females who possess strong set of values and morals. But the socio-economic situation in Armenia has "raped" so many people. We are not the same any more as a whole - but I don't doubt that one day we will be ... again !!!!!

Regards.

[Guest]

But why do you think that Armeninas lost everything that they possessed in 1915???

If you are surrounded by people that did it doesn't mean that all Armenians are like that.

well, at least i'm not and all the people I see aren't either.

it's a personal thing and it depends on each person's will.

[Guest]

Sulamita, yes, *** is very natural but *** (in an adictive way - because that's how it is in the West) in modern society will not get us anywhere, we're not animals. Morals and values arn't there for nothing! I'm not saying armenians shouldn't have *** at all but I'm saying that young girls have *** before even knowing why they do it and this causes quite some problems. I'm not talking about Armenians only, Iranians, Lebanese, etc. Vales are being lost. I know what I'm talking about. Girls here of these nationalities are acting like BEEPS! Sleeping with everyone. There's a problem in such a society! Don't you think?

***(to the youth) is used to escape the problems and this is not the best way. Don't be too open-minded.

Even if you used France or the whole World as an example; do we have to be like the rest of the world (in this aspect) to make it? No.

You're talking to me about socio-economic situation. But Armenia is in a bad situation therefore it has to lose it's values?? USA is in a good situation... also loosing values.

[Guest]

sulamita,

What i ment is not all Armenians lost their moral values!!

You say:"face it" , well why should we???

First we face that, then we face the total legalization of drugs, THEN WHAT??????????

i KNOW we are humans too, but should we be like others?

We have our morals and traditions and we don't have to go DOWN JUST BECAUSE the "very free" society calls for it!

people in israel (and other jews)are the only people in the world with that kind of religion?!!

So why don't we make a suggestion :"Face that - you are the only ones like that, you should be like the majority, you can't be unique because you are humans too!!follow the pattern, follow the free societies

lose your identity!!!

How about that, ha???

If we lose our morals totaly-we will lose our culture, believe me!

In 20 years, if that happens, how can read Armenian poems about "pure love" to my daughter if she lives with her 9th boyfriend?????

how can you garantee that if we "face it" as you say, we won't "melt" in the other so-called "free societies"????

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nvard:
But why do you think that Armeninas lost everything that they possessed in 1915???
If you are surrounded by people that did it doesn't mean that all Armenians are like that.
well, at least i'm not and all the people I see aren't either.
it's a personal thing and it depends on each person's will.

---

Nvard,

Why do YOU think they lost everything they posessed? You tell me.
What do you mean "surrounded by people that did it ?" Did what? Had ***? Oh please, I live in LA. There are more armenians here than in Yerevan. I am surrounded by all kinds of Armenians. But I never said ALL Armenians are one way or another. It's just that the image of an armenian woman HAS changed and we have to face it. But as you said "it's a personal thing" and you may go on beleiving everyone is just like you.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Raffi Y:
Sulamita, yes, *** is very natural but *** (in an adictive way - because that's how it is in the West) in modern society will not get us anywhere, we're not animals. Morals and values arn't there for nothing! Even if you used France or the whole World as an example; do we have to be like the rest of the world (in this aspect) to make it? No.
You're talking to me about socio-economic situation. But Armenia is in a bad situation therefore it has to lose it's values?? USA is in a good situation... also loosing values.

---

Raffi,

I am sorry but some of the comments you make are so naive I have to guess you are still in your teens. Correct me if I am wrong.
I never said we SHOULD be animals - but life has shown that when people are in poor conditions they do start to act like animals. And then there is the other extreme - when they are filthy rich

Yes, Armenia's youth IS losing its grip of morals and values. And YES, the socio-economic hardships are the root of this problem. Yes, it would be very convenient for all of us not to have to be faced with this grim picture and to stand high and proud and announce "Despite all the hardships our country has experience, armenian men and women have held on to their values and morals." But, again, Armenians are only human and regardless, you like it or not - they are going to act like humans.

USA was based on freedom - so it never had much values Freedom has its evils along with its blessings. Armenia is devouring its newly found freedom. And going to extremes. (is that not typical of us?)

I will no longer comment on this subject.

[Guest]

Nvard has expressed with smart violence what I feel. I agree 200%.

Shad senorhagal em siroun kouyr im!

Sulamita, think about what has been said. I undertand you're point of view but I wasn't convinced. Do you understand ours?

[Guest]

Raffi and Nvard,

 

I had already mentioned that I will no longer comment on this subject. But I feel the need to conclude with a few more words.

 

I had the same views as you when I was younger. But things changed. I grew up and realized that you can't live in a dream world. But I also realized that I don't need to yield. I do not need to lower my standards to match the standards of the majority. And I think that is what you guys were getting to.

 

Astvats dzez het !!!

[Guest]

The guys name is Silent

The former Boss of AP ( Armenian Gang )

his over 28 years old

i guess this this is it a wore between Latinos and Armenians

this is snot going to be nice at all so many innocent life's are going to bee lost

Armenians & Mexicans need to Andersen that this is pointless.

all this is dung is killing us & ham .soon many other Armenians & Mexicans are going

to be drown in to this think. Killing of The Boos of Armenian Gang is not going to stop

nothing ,

the only weenier in this cases is The Glendale PD knew PD can say that , ARmenians &

the Mexicans are fighting not only in Glendale.

 

"LA Times "The meeting comes more than three weeks after the beating and stabbing

death of Raul Aguirre outside of Hoover High School. He was killed trying to break up

a fight between gang members, police said. The incident has since spawned ethnic

tensions between Latinos and Armenians in Glendale. Glendale is the safest city in the

country among municipalities with populations over 150,000, but that doesn't mean the

community is without its problems, Young said. "We have an opportunity to look within

ourselves and become one of the first communities to do something about the violence in

our local community," Young said. "We are creating a boiler plate. I am trying to prevent

people from killing one another.""

 

" LA times "

GLENDALE -- For the record: Two Armenians were not shot and killed in

retaliation immediately following Raul Aguirre's death. And rival gang members have not

scheduled a "Westside Story"-like rumble at a fixed time and location.

These are only two of the rumors Glendale school and police officials have tried to

stomp out since the beating and stabbing death of Hoover High School senior Aguirre.

"Rumors are poison," said Hoover Co-Principal Kevin Welsh.

Aguirre was killed May 5 across the street from Hoover after intervening in a fight

between rival Latino and Armenian gang members, police said. Aguirre was not a gang

member.

Rumors about potential retaliations began to flare shortly after the incident, and were

fueled further after an 18-year-old Armenian man was shot in the leg a few days later

by what appeared to be a Latino gang member, police said.

Welsh said teachers and students have brought a number of rumors to the attention

of school officials, who have checked out each one.

A majority have revolved around retaliation for Aguirre's death and potential fights

between students, he said. Vic Pallos, spokesman for the Glendale Unified School

District, said most of the rumors have been vague. One call received by the district, said

only, "'Something is going to happen today,"' Pallos said.

Glendale Police spokesman Chahe Keuroghelian said the department also has

fielded a number of rumor calls. "This is a situation where people are believing these

things because they are fearful of some sort of retaliation," Keuroghelian said. Rumors or

safety concerns should be brought to the attention of police, he said. School officials are

asking students not to spread rumors among themselves. The district has set up a special

"rumor control" phone line everyone in the community can call, Pallos said.

School officials have not found any of the rumors to be true and the number of them

rolling in has died down. Fear of retaliation or more violence near the campus may have

kept some students away from Hoover. Alice Petrossian, assistant superintendent of

educational services for the district, said attendance was down in the first few days

following Aguirre's death. District officials plan to begin a study on attendance this week.

The study will determine what was a normal amount of absences and how many were a

result of the Aguirre incident. ""

 

AWTV 7.00pm

Police spokesman Chahe Keuroghelian was giving it's peacekeeping speech again on

Armenian TV on it's 1 hr Tv program , telling Armenians to stop the wiliness & haw

Armenians need to learn to forgave , wan a lady contact Chahe over the phone on Live

TV told Chahe Keuroghelian about the Keeling of Armenian in Hollywood wech has

happened clos to 5.00pm in Surens Restornat .

Chahe whas shakd bye this.

 

" La times "

15-Year-Old Killed in Apparent Gang Shooting

EAST LOS ANGELES--A 15-year-old boy died Monday in what appeared to be

a gang-related shooting in East Los Angeles, and the boy's father was wounded.

The shooting occurred about 6:20 p.m. on the street in the 4600 block of East 2nd

Street, Sheriff's Deputy Carlos Lopez said. Lopez said the boy was taken to a hospital,

where he was pronounced dead.

[Guest]

On the news:

A 15 year old Armenian guy was shot to death by 2 Latinos, in Hollywood, in front of an Armenian eatery.

 

What does one do? Flip the channel and forget about it? Go out there and ... and ... and WHAT? Are we really that hopeless and helpless? I need some opinions.