Turkish barbarism

[khodja]

Our national future and the future of the Armenian wordwide diaspora is at stake. Some of our most reknown and illustious fellow Armenians refuse to divilge their heritage or speak of it only in whispered tones. Do you not realize why we raise these arguments?

t is not that we do not love our own, but that we love them too much.

[MJ]

I am not one of those who count the number of split peas in a soup. However, normally being a very tolerant and open minded, and by mentality cosmopolitan man, I have zero tolerance towards nonscientific, blown out of their proportions ideological declarations, and the like.

 

I am sure you know what I am referring to.

[khodja]

Martin,

 

Please be specific as to what you are referring to, my comments or the comments of Ara, or both.

[MJ]

Not specifically. I am just very much aware of what is coming. Remember the "Fly-by-night visitor?"

[khodja]

I vaguelly recall a "fly-by-night visitor" but can not recall what arguments that they posted. I only remember that their arguments were inflammatory.

[MJ]

No, you are wrong. I have a very good memory. He(me) was not imflamatory at all, but rather restrained, balanced, polite and to the point.

 

I expect the Agassi-Sampras match is to start any moment now. I want to go and enjoy it. Talk to you later.

[gamavor]

The biggest crime of the turks is not that they have killed my ancestors, but the creation of such a category of people like Khodja, who have double identity and will do their best to make Armenians look like their other "undesired" part of their being.

[gamavor]

These unhappy, deported people (belonging in great part to Zeitoun) have been chiefly deposited in two places – one section of them in a swampy region which has hitherto remained uninhabited on account of the deadly malaria; while the remainder have been sent to a still more unhealthy place in the direction of the Persia Gulf ( i.e. Der-el-Zor) so bad that they have begged to be sent to the swamps; but their petition has not been granted.”

“ The malaria makes ravages among them, because of the complete lack of food and shelter. How cruelly ironic to think that the Government pretends to be sending them there to found a colony; and they have no ploughts, no seeds to sow, no bread, no abodes; in fact they are sent with empty hands.”

“According to our information, the Government has refused to leave in their homes even the insignificant Armenian colonies at Aleppo and Ourfa, who might otherwise have succored their unhappy trethren who have been driven further south; and the Catholikos of Cilicia, who is still at Aleppo, is busy distributing the succor which we are sending him.”

“Amongst the thousand families deported to Sultanieh, there are scarcely fifty men. Most have made the journey on foot, some of the old women and of the infants have died on the road, young women with child have had miscarriages, and have been left on the mountains. Even at this moment, in their place of exile, these deported people produce a dozen victims daily, tho toll of decease and hunger. At Aleppo it requires at the present 13 (Turkish) pounds per diem to supply the deported people with bread. You can imagine to yourself what must be their situation in the deserts where even the native Arabs are famished.”

“A sum of money has been sent from Constantinople to the Catholikos of Cilicia who si now at Aleppo, witness of the misery and agony of his flock. Here,, at least, the authorities allow the distribution of succor to these unfortunates. At Sultanieh it has so far proved impossible to bring help within their reach., for the Government refuses permission in spite of the efforts of the American Embassy.”

“A Commission of five members has left America for Constantinople to help the Armenians in distress. The Mission is anxious to travel in the interior of the country to acquaint itself with the situation on the actual spot and take corresponding action; but the Turkish Government has refused them permission.”

[khodja]

Dikran Kouyoumjian, Malachi Sarrafian, Gregory Pechdimaldjian, Arlene Kazanjian, Cherilyn Sarkisian, Diana Princess of Wales, Andre Agassi, Sylvie Vartan, etc., etc., etc. So many others lost .

 

What you believe, Gamavor, to be your Armenianess is in reality your Ottoman heritage.

[gamavor]

.....UNdesired part of their being!

[khodja]

Oh, so you agree that we should shed that part of our mentality engendered by the centuries we lived under the Seljuk and Ottoman yoke? We can start by truly loving each other in the truly Christian sense. No more one-upsmanship, no more degradation of our women, no more belittling of the less fortunate among us. I am as adamant as you are about Genocide Recognition, but I can not sweep under the rug what Armenians will do to other Armenians in the name of Armenian honor.

[gamavor]

No more Mongol, Chechen, Tatar, Circasian, Seldjuk, Mameluk, Alevi, Jewish and God knows what else interpretations of Armenian History!

[khodja]

Where do you find any of these interpretations in my posting?

[gamavor]

"I was called to a house one day, where I saw a sheet which originated from the prison and which was being sent to the wash. I got to the bottom of the matter by the help of two very reliable persons who witnessed part of it themselves.......

"The prisoner is put in a room. Gendarmes standing in thwos at both sides and two at the end of the room administer, each in their turn, bastinadoes as long as they have enough force in them. In the time of the Romans 40 strokes were administered at the very most; in this place, however, 200, 300, 500 and even 800 strokes are administered. The foot swells up, then bursts open, owing to the numerous blows. The prisoner is then carried back into the prison and to bed by the rrest of the prisoners. The prisoners who become uncouncious after thece blows are revived by means of cold water, which is thrown on their heads."

"On the next day , or , more exactly, during the night, as all ill-treatments are carried on at night in - as well as in -, the whole bastinadoing is being carried on again in spite of swollen feet and wounds. I was then in -, but in that prison there were also 30 prisoners in number, and all had their feet in such a state that they began to burn and had to be amputated, or were already taken off. A young man was beaten to death in the space of five minutes. Apart from the bastinadoing, other methods were employed, too-such as putting hot irons on the chest."

"A number of lighters have been loaded with people at different times and sent off toward -. It is generally believed that such person were drowned . During the early days a large, kayak , or lighter was loaded with men supposed to be members of the Armenian committee and sent off toward -. Two days later a certain Russian subject and one of those who left in the boat returned overland to-, badly wounded about the head adn so crazy he could not make himself understood."

 

"All he could say was "Boom! Boom!". He was arrested by the authorities adn taken to the Municipal Hospital, where he died the following day. A Turk said this boat was met not far from - by another boat containing gendarmes, who proceeded, to kill all the men and throw them overboard. The thought they had killed them all, but this Russian, who was big adn powerful, was only wounded and swam ashore unnoticed. A number of such kayaks have left - loaded with men, and usually they return empty after a few hours."

 

To be continued...

[gamavor]

Khodja,

 

I will talk to you if you change your Forum nickname. How about "Hreshtak"!

[khodja]

My great-grandfather the real one with the title "Khodja" was the hreshdag. In the Winter of 1915, he rose in front of a hostile crowd of hundreds of young Armenians and stated "Aslaneh ge kenanagor, mi artensener." He was booed.

 

With powerful adversaries as we have in our part of the world we can not afford to lose any more to assimilation. We must loosen the litmus tests to be considered Armenian that exist. We can begin with Kasparov, and the wealthiest ges-Hye Chinese in Moscow, etc. I have been vehemently ridiculed before, but these are not the only times in our history that Jews or Chinese have assimilated INTO our community. What about the other ges-Hyes? Do you realize that the Jews welcome the ges-Herias? That is their strength. How many of you know that Barry Goldwater was a ges-Heria? Paul Newman? Goldie Hawn? etc. etc. We do not welcome such people. Arlene Francis Kazanjian, Cherilyn Sarkissian, Andre Agassi and others who do not even admit to being Armenian. When have you ever seen them at an Armenian function?

[MJ]

“Nastradamus,”

 

Most of the half or part Armenians, and some of them in my own family, have no negative experiences in their lives due to their genetic “status.” Most of the Armenians who embrace the Armenian values and the Armenian purpose, whatever it may mean, are embraced as Armenians. People are judged by their personalities. Any non Armenian, who connects somehow with the Armenians is embraced like Armenian.

 

Unfortunately, in our experience we come across with some half or whatever Armenians, who a priorily portray themselves as victims, while not being victims but elementary losers. It invites nothing but disgust. I would much rather prefer enemy Turks or whatever enemies than loser Armenians with a chip on their shoulders. Because they would definitely be the traitors and the back-stabbers under corresponding circumstances. That attitude of the loser Armenian invites nothing but a disgust. I don’t want to have anything common with him/her, and if I would meet him/her in a Forum or a supermarket, I would pretend not noticing him/her. The counting of “split peas in the soup” in either context invites nothing but resentment and contempt, and puts the “accountant” out of the normal.

 

You are a rather senior person, if I am not mistaken. Isn’t it time that you realize that you need to present yourself not as an 88% Armenian, but a fellow human being first, who shares our values, aspirations, and maybe even our flaws? Maybe than, others will take you at that?

 

By the way, the way you have described, you grandfather was far not a “Hreshdag.”

[khodja]

Do you consider Ara Baliozian a loser Armenian?

[MJ]

No, I don't. Becasue there is mountains of difference between what you are trying to do and what he is trying to do.

[khodja]

I don't think so. We both want to ameliorate the "Napoleoness" of the Armenian mentality, as mentioned by some German ambassador in Yerevan, who stated that every morning 3 million Napoleons wake up in Armenia.

 

As a member of the Church hierarchy you could never understand this, as it is your mission to stamp out heretical thought.

[MJ]

I don’t know to laugh at you or to feel sorry for you. I am inclined to do the second, however. Help me to make my mind, please.

 

I don’t think you have quite understood Ara, first of all. Second, someone who calls himself “Nastrodamus” is in no positions to criticize others for thinking of themselves as “Napoleons.” I have something for the German Ambassador, too, but this is not the place for it.

 

I have followed your postings, among others, in the other forum. I have always been puzzled at how presumptuous you were, how one sided you were in your thinking and how much you were in love with your image of a victim. Please don’t do it here, and try to be a little bit more meticulous studying your surroundings and the things that you don’t know, but about which you want to express opinions. Just for the kick of it, let me also tell you that never in my life I have been a member of a Church hierarchy, and have not even entered a building of a Church for perhaps some 15 years.

 

But for the sake of the fairness, I have also to admit that I have agreed with some of your positions and thoughts. You are just a very controversial person. But you are not too bad.

 

Now, here it is almost 1:30 AM, and I got to go to bed. Good night!

[gamavor]

MJ,

 

It is useless. The hell with khodjas all over the World

[gamavor]

" The bloody curtain has fallen over Zeitoun, and the fighting stock of these brave mountaineers has been subdued in this memorable year of crime! As the faithful followers and remnants of the Roupenian dynasty, they had hitherto kept their homes intact and had succesfully, withstood the Turkish inroads. They have at last been overcome by heavy Turkish forces, and the stronghold of Zeitoun in now in the hands of the enemy"!

 

" It appears that after the failure last winter of the projected Turkish plan of campaing against the Suez Canal, Djemal *****, the Commander of the Syrian Army, led a large force of regulars against Zeitoun. The Zeitountzis entrenched themselves in their fastness and fought for two or three months against an enemy which outnumbered them greatly, besided being assisted by heavy artilery, hoping that reinforcements would arrive in time for their support. But no help came adn they fought to their last cartridge. It was towards the end of May that Zeitoun was taken by the Turks, who massacred all the inhabitants they found. A few hundred old women are said to have been deported to Angora, and others to the plains of Mesopotamia, where report says they are being subjected to grave indignities"- indignities with which we have been acquainted already in Frauleein Rohner's description of Der-el-Zor, and which the wirter just quoted would have called by a stronger name, had he been acquainted with her terrible narrative."

 

To be continued....

[Juggernaut]

quote

I think it is quite interesting how certain Armenians (you?) despite having been in contact with the most advanced civilisation in SE Asia (Australia) have remained culturally backward.

 

Mind clarifying this statement, I dont see how my post may have bought someone to this conclusion, unless of course this individual happened to be a Turk.

 

quote

Maybe a one way ticket to Nauru would do you good, certainly it would do Australia good.

 

I doubt it will, because both my parents pay taxes and I will also be doing so after I graduate from university with a double degree. Professionals like me are in short supply.

 

quote

A cross section of Armenians will reveal some with the characteristic Asian eye structure as well.

 

I can in most cases tell an Armenian apart from any other Middle Easterner by their unique eyes. I am sure there is a very small cross section, but this is to be expected after living with Asians for over 1000 years.

 

quote

Now how many of you Armenian chauvinists

 

I am not an Armenian chauvenist, I am a nationalist however, and what are you?

 

quote

I am 88% Armenian as far as my heritage goes and by my interst in things Armenian, but in terms of mentality I am almost 0% Armenian.

 

mmmm, then I am afraid you are then almost 0% Armenian. Whos is this Ara fellow? I have never heard of him.

 

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: Juggernaut ]

[MJ]

I wonder how does one become 1/68 Armenian?