PUNISH THE DENIER DOGS

[Arpa]

VIVE LA FRANCE!!

 

FRENCH LAWMAKERS PASS LAW ON ARMENIANS

 

By ELAINE GANLEY, Associated Press – 26 minutes ago

PARIS (AP) — French lawmakers easily passed a measure Thursday to make it a crime in France to deny that the mass killings of Armenians in 1915 by Ottoman Turks amounted to genocide. State TV in Turkey, which had promised retaliation if the bill passed, said the country's ambassador to France would be withdrawn.

There was no official vote count in the ballot in France's lower house of parliament, with passage determined by a simple show of hands. The measure must still be passed in the Senate, where its fate is less clear.

The measure put France on a collision course with Turkey, a strategic ally and trading partner. Ankara reacted swiftly with state-run TV saying that Ambassador Tahsin Burcuoglu would be withdrawn. Turkey had threatened to remove its ambassador if French lawmakers did not desist and warned of "grave consequences" to political and economic ties.

Turkey vehemently rejects the term "genocide" for the World War I era-mass killings of Armenians, saying the issue should be left to historians. It contends that France is trampling freedom of expression and that President Nicolas Sarkozy is on a vote-getting mission ahead of April presidential elections.

An estimated half-million Armenians live in France and many have pressed to raise the legal statute regarding the massacres to the same level as the Holocaust by punishing denial of genocide.

France formally recognized the killings as genocide in 2001, but provided no penalty for anyone denying that. The bill sets a punishment of up to one year in prison and a fine of euro45,000 ($59,000) for those who deny or "outrageously minimize" the killings by Ottoman Turks, putting such action on a par with denial of the Holocaust.

"Our ancestors can finally rest in peace," said 75-year-old Maurice Delighazarian who said his grandparents on both sides were among the victims of the 1915 massacre.

Vaskel Avedissian, 25, said he spent time with Turkish demonstrators outside the National Assembly earlier Thursday and "These people have nothing against Armenians." But, he added, "Turkey is the spokesman for state negationism today."

Lawmakers denounced what they called Turkey's propaganda effort in a bid to sway them.

"Laws voted in this chamber cannot be dictated by Ankara," said Jean-Christophe Lagarde, a deputy from the New Center party, as Turks demonstrated outside the National Assembly ahead of the vote.

The bill's author said she was "shocked" at the attempt to interfere with the parliament's work.

"My bill doesn't aim at any particular country," said Valerie Boyer, a deputy from the ruling conservative UMP party. "It is inspired by European law, which says that the people who deny the existence of the genocides must be sanctioned."

An initial bid to punish denial of the Armenian genocide failed earlier this year, killed by the Senate five years after it was passed by the lower house.

French authorities have stressed the importance of bilateral ties with Turkey and the key role it plays in sensitive strategic issues as a member of NATO, in Syria, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

However, Sarkozy has long opposed the entry into the European Union of mostly Muslim Turkey, putting a constant strain on the two nations' ties.

Turkish authorities have weighed in with caustic remarks about France's past. Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan has recalled France's colonial history in Algeria and a 1945 massacre there, as well as its role in Rwanda, where some have claimed a French role in the 1994 genocide.

"Those who do want to see genocide should turn around and look at their own dirty and bloody history," Erdogan said last weekend. "Turkey will stand against this intentional, malicious, unjust and illegal attempt through all kinds of diplomatic means."

Turkish President Abdullah Gul spoke out on the issue this week, saying it will "put France in a position of a country that does not respect freedom of expression and does not allow objective scientific research."

Turkey insists the mass killings of Armenians — up to 1.5 million, historians estimate — occurred during civil unrest as the Ottoman Empire collapsed, with losses on both sides. Historians contend the Armenians were massacred in the first genocide of the 20th century.

France is pressing Turkey to own up to its history for the sake of "memory" just as the French have officially recognized the role of their state — the collaborationist Vichy government — in the deportation of Jews to Nazi death camps during World War II.

In October, Sarkozy visited Armenia and its capital of Yerevan, urging Turkey to recognize the 1915 killings as genocide.

"Turkey, which is a great country, would honor itself by revisiting its history like other countries in the world have done," Sarkozy said.

France, however, took its own time recognizing the state's role in the Holocaust. It was not until 1995 that then-President Jacques Chirac proclaimed France's active role in sending its citizens to death camps. And it was only in 2009 that his historic declaration was formally recognized in a ruling by France's top body, the Council of State.

Catherine Gaschka contributed to this article.

Copyright © 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved

=====

Floowed by this jurky kneejurk. Jerks indeed!

----

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16297414

Turkey recalls envoy from France over 'genocide' bill

Armenians say up to 1.5m people were killed by the Ottoman Turks in 1915-16

Continue reading the main story

Related Stories

Q&A: Armenian genocide dispute

Country profile: Armenia

Turkey country profile

The Turkish ambassador to France has been recalled in protest at a bill making it illegal to deny the mass killing of Armenians was genocide.

The National Assembly in Paris voted by a show of hands to back the bill by a large majority, and it will go before the Senate next year.

Turkey rejects the term "genocide" to describe the killing of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe publicly opposed the bill.

Under the bill, those publicly denying genocide would face a year in jail and a fine of 45,000 euros (£29,000: $58,000).

Armenians say up to 1.5m people were killed by the Ottoman Turks in 1915-16.

Ankara says closer to 300,000 people died, and that Turks were also killed as Armenians rose up against the Ottoman Empire when Russian troops invaded eastern Anatolia, now eastern Turkey.

More than 20 countries have formally recognised the killings as genocide.

'Denigrated'

Turkish TV announced the recall of the country's envoy in response to the bill.

Continue reading the main story

Turkey and the Armenians

Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Armenians died during mass deportations by Ottoman Turks in 1915-6

More than 20 countries say it was genocide

Turkey and some historians say it was part of widespread turmoil in World War I in which Muslims also died

Estimated 500,000 ethnic Armenians now in France

Turkey closed Armenia border in 1993 because of conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh

Turkey signed 2009 deal with Armenia to examine 1915 killings and open borders: ratified by neither side

Ambassador Tahsin Burcuoglu will leave France on Friday and further measures will be announced in Turkey by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a Turkish embassy spokesman confirmed for French news agency AFP.

Earlier, Turkey's main political parties issued a joint statement condemning the bill, saying it "denigrates Turkish history".

There have been protests outside the French embassy in the Turkish capital, Ankara.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said he hoped France would "not step on a great and an old friendship and French values for political and electoral gains".

"But without question, no-one can expect us to keep silent and show no reaction," the Turkish minister told reporters.

Armenian Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian thanked the French parliament for supporting the bill.

"I would like to once again express my gratitude to France's top leadership, to the National Assembly, and to the French people," he told AFP in the Armenian capital Yerevan.

He added that France had "once again proved its commitment to universal human values".

'Counter-productive'

Mr Juppe criticised the proposed law, which follows France's formal recognition of the killings as genocide in 2001. No penalty was attached for denial at the time.

Mr Juppe told reporters it was a critical juncture in the Middle East and he emphasised the role Turkey had been playing in the Arab Spring, as well as the strong economic ties that existed between Turkey and France.

"It [the bill] is useless and counter-productive," he said.

"Passing laws in France won't change their minds in Turkey. We recognise the consequences. I would expect a robust Turkish response. The retaliation could have damaging and serious consequences."

His disapproval appears to be in direct conflict with the tacit support that has been given by President Nicolas Sarkozy to the bill, the BBC's Christian Fraser reports from Paris.

There are some half a million ethnic Armenians living in France and their vote is considered important in next year's presidential election, our correspondent notes.

The bill still needs the support of the Senate, which perhaps explains why the foreign minister is more than a little frustrated that his careful diplomacy of recent months is being upset by the posturing of one or two MPs, our correspondent says.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Arpa

[Yervant1]

As long turkey makes it illegal to say that it was a genocide in turkey, then it has no moral right to complain at France for doing this. Turks can't suck and blow at the same time, if they want freedom of speech in France then they should have freedom of speech in turkey.

[Arpa]

As long turkey makes it illegal to say that it was a genocide in turkey, then it has no moral right to complain at France for doing this. Turks can't suck and blow at the same time, if they want freedom of speech in France then they should have freedom of speech in turkey.

Freedom of speech? From which anatomical aperture? When even the mention of "ermeni" is considered a swear word/kufur punishable by capital punishment.

Hello/Heaveno. I mean HALO/ԼՈՒՍԱՊՍԱԿ Saint Hrant Dink- RIP.

Նաեկացու Քուչակի պէս Լուսապսակ ճակատ չկայ

Edited December 22, 2011 by Arpa

[MosJan]

Eli Lava

[Boghos]

Vive la France. Let the Turks do whatever they want, who cares!

[Yervant1]

[Arpa]

Vive la France. Let the Turks do whatever they want, who cares!

ՇՈՒՆԸ ԿԸ ՀԱՉԷ, ԿԱՐԱՒԱՆՆ ՔՇԷ

 

Yes indeed Boghos. Who cares!!

Regardless of the eventual outcome of this saga, it is enough that the news was broadcast by all the world media all the way from ABC, BBC…. And XYZ.

We should thank the furks for fanning the fire, pouring gasoline on the fire so to speak.

Whoever said the furks are smart?

Without the American missiles they would be at the bottom of the mudslides.

Without the American welfare checks they would be wallowing in the waste waters(read sewage) of bokhlu chai,-գագոտ գետ.

[Yervant1]

TURKEY ANNOUNCES SANCTIONS AGAINST FRANCE

 

www.worldbulletin.net

Dec 22 2011

Turkey

 

Turkey, in addition to recalling ambassador to France is also halting

official contacts, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said.

 

Turkey has announced a set of sanctions on France after the French

National Assembly passed a bill to make it a crime in France to have

different views on 1915 Armenia incidents.

 

Erdogan told a news conference in Ankara on Thursday that Turkey is

cancelling all economic, political, military meetings with France

over the bill.

 

He also said Turkey cancels permission for French military planes to

land, warships to dock in Turkey.

[Armenak]

So the gutless BBC has stopped putting the term genocide in scare-quotes and has instead opted for scare-apostrophes?

[Yervant1]

MASSACRE REMAINS TURKISH SHAME

by Stewart Duncan

 

Kamloops Daily News (British Columbia)

December 22, 2011 Thursday

Final Edition

 

The French parliament today is debating a bill that would make it

illegal to deny that Turkey massacred 1.5 million Armenians during

and after the Great War.

 

France recognized 10 years ago that the "ethnic cleansing" (a term

that almost always must be in quotes) qualified as genocide.

 

This next step -- passing the bill -- it will make Armenian-holocaust

denials equal to Jewish-Holocaust denials.

 

That means anyone who deliberately falsifies the historical record

could be fined 45,000 euros, which is close to $60,000 Canadian. Along

with that could be a year in Le Bastille -- and pardon my Frenchified

metaphor for The Big House.

 

Turkey reacted as usual: denial followed by attenuation ("It wasn't

THAT bad"), indignation and redirection, pointing at France's own dirty

secrets. (And France has some, including its enthusiastic round up and

deportation of French citizens of Jewish descent to Nazi death camps.)

 

But every country has skeletons in its closets; the world only gets

upset enough to take action when it has nothing else really pressing.

 

Turkey's massacre of Armenians was certainly one of the worst that

can be historically verified. In the very worst genocides, of course,

no one lives to tell.

 

Turkey, as expected, pulled its ambassador from France, just as it

had with Canada in 2004.

 

Canada sutured that diplomatic laceration by saying that our attention

to the matter was only an acknowledgement of history, and not a

condemnation of modern Turkey, which, of course, implies that modern

Turkey would never do such a nasty thing. It didn't heal the rift

completely, but it was a good spin.

 

Unfortunately, this particular Turkish massacre of Armenians is only

one of many Turkish campaigns of murder and genocide, which typically

included torture, rape, brutality, starvation, thirst, drownings,

poisonings, etc.

 

In fact, if any modern country has defined diversification in mass

murder, it's Turkey. For about 400 years, Turks had systematically

tried to wipe out Armenians, Kurds, Greeks, Christians, non-ethnic

Turks and anyone who wasn't an avowed supporter of whoever held

the sword.

 

Nor did Turkey change its ways after the disintegration of the Ottoman

Empire, which was behind the Armenian genocide.

 

In 1922, the Young Turks (the government at the time) swept through

the peaceful, prosperous, cosmopolitan city of Smyrna. Americans,

Britons, French, Russian, Austrian, German, Japanese and many more

who were living in Smyrna and operating legitimate businesses were

forced to flee for their lives.

 

The lucky ones escaped. The rest -- including entire families --

were intentionally drowned at sea, burned in the buildings in which

they sought refuge, or left in bloody pieces in the streets.

 

So the fact that France is willing to deal with the Armenian massacre

now is a big step internationally and historically.

 

In doing so, the often-morally ambivalent nation takes a more

courageous stance than Canada, Switzerland, Russia and a score of

countries that are on record as recognizing Turkey's ethnic cleansing

of that period, but which haven't made denying the genocide illegal.

 

Notably, Britain and the U.S. are not on that important list, though

they know right well that it is true. Britain and the U.S. have

stronger economic ties to Turkey than Canada or France; they also have

more Turkish immigrants and citizens of Turkish descent. And they have

a great, ongoing military need for Turkey's strategic location. Chalk

up another for pragmatism.

 

And bravo, France.

 

Stewart Duncan is an associate editor with The Daily News.

[Yervant1]

'ISN'T TURKEY ASHAMED OF USING HRANT DINK'S WORDS TO ITS OWN ADVANTAGE?' TURKEY'S ARMENIANS RESPOND TO FRANCE GENOCIDE BILL

 

epress.am

12.23.2011

 

If denial is not a crime, what crime has Turkey been committing for

years? ask several prominent Armenians living in Turkey in a joint

statement issued today.

 

"Our country, a paradise of freedoms, is mobilized once more -- this

time for freedom of speech," say the authors of the statement, alluding

to the fact that following the French Parliament's adoption of a law

yesterday criminalizing genocide denial, Turk politicians unanimously

state that the decision violates the right to freedom of speech.

 

"If it is inappropriate for a parliament to pass resolutions on

history, does this mean that we have nothing to expect from the Turkish

Parliament about the Armenian Genocide? If it is inappropriate for

the politicians to decide on topics of history, then why we were so

enthusiastic about the words spoken about Dersim?

 

"However this time, the law the French law goes beyond recognition of

genocide, and bans its denial. This gives Turkey a chance to hide its

denialist mindset and unfair position under a thin cover of legitimacy.

 

"It is obvious that we all seem to agree that denial of genocide

should not be penalized.

 

"But does this mean we all believe that denial is not a moral offense?

 

Isn't Turkey, at the end of the day, demanding the right to deny

genocide? Isn't this is the wish to continue the luxury of exercising

this "right"?

 

"Is what the 9 people from Turkey, including Hrant Dink and Ragıp

Zarakolu, argued in 2006 in France really the same as what Turkey

argues today?

 

"Isn't Turkey ashamed of using Hrant Dink's words to its own advantage?

 

"The policy of denial committed many crimes after 1915 as [Turkey]

gave its consent to evildoings and paved the way for the assassination

of Hrant Dink.

 

"Denial, by causing the genocide victims to live through the same

trauma again and again, poses the danger of new acts of violence and

for this reason it is a crime.

 

"Therefore, let's leave France aside. All right, maybe France is doing

wrong; its intentions are no good. But what is Turkey planning to do?"

 

reads the statement, which is signed also by Hrant Dink's son,

Arat Dink.

 

Note, the authors of the statement are referring to Hrant Dink's Oct.

 

2006 statement that he is ready to go to France and protest the bill

criminalizing genocide denial if the country's parliament votes in

its favor. In Dink's opinion, the bill violates freedom of speech.