Why are Armenians so disunited?

[Guest]

I am writing this to ask why Armenians are not as close-knit as they should be. I have a Cuban friend here in California, everytime she comes in contact with another Cuban, its like a reunion, they hug and are instant friends, whether they are Black or Spanish origin. I notice when I come in contact with Armenians I get a cool reception. A case in point is the Armenian restaurant I used to frequent. Yes vor ges hyem, Hye chem numanum. Bits Hayeren khosumem(shaat laav che!). Anyway, I found the service to be very good and friendly until I decided to announce I was Armenian, then there was a sudden change,which was noted by my friends. I have had repeated incidents like this, as have most of my family who are Armenians.

 

By contrast, Iranians, who are my countrymen by birth ( I was born in Iran) are so friendly when I speak to them in my less than perfect Farsi. THe other day I encountered a wonderful Persian couple at Starbucks Coffee and struck up a conversation with them. THe next thing I knew they were paying for my cup of coffee! It would be a cold day in Hell before Armenians would do that! I know I sound very bitter, but that has been my experience with my Armenians. Inch anem! Etensen!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
I am writing this to ask why Armenians are not as close-knit as they should be. I have a Cuban friend here in California, everytime she comes in contact with another Cuban, its like a reunion, they hug and are instant friends, whether they are Black or Spanish origin. I notice when I come in contact with Armenians I get a cool reception. A case in point is the Armenian restaurant I used to frequent. Yes vor ges hyem, Hye chem numanum. Bits Hayeren khosumem(shaat laav che!). Anyway, I found the service to be very good and friendly until I decided to announce I was Armenian, then there was a sudden change,which was noted by my friends. I have had repeated incidents like this, as have most of my family who are Armenians.

By contrast, Iranians, who are my countrymen by birth ( I was born in Iran) are so friendly when I speak to them in my less than perfect Farsi. THe other day I encountered a wonderful Persian couple at Starbucks Coffee and struck up a conversation with them. THe next thing I knew they were paying for my cup of coffee! It would be a cold day in Hell before Armenians would do that! I know I sound very bitter, but that has been my experience with my Armenians. Inch anem! Etensen!

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I totally agree. I am 17 years old and my mother is French Canadian and my father Armenian. I think that something that most armenians hove not unerstood yet is that we all come from the same place, from the same land, Armenia. They seperate Armenians from Lebanon and Armenians from Iran and Armenians from Armenia. Here, in Montreal, I often hear about fights between Armenians from Lebanon (Lipanantsi) and Armenians from Armenia (Hayasdantsi), what's the deal? We are all Armenian! The separation is also caused by the political parties like Dashnak; if you're not from that 'group' I'm not your brother or sister... that just kills me! There you are. Very good remark!

[Guest]

Dear Raffi

 

comment ca va? I liked your reply because most of the responses in this chat room seem to be from people who are blind to the faults of Armenians. Don't even get me started on the Lipanahye vs. Barskahye controversy! It seems that Armenians get along with most everybody (Save the Turks!) but can't get along with each other. Most odars have a very good image of Armenians. Sure, because Armenians are very nice to odars! Keep writing back Raffi, you seem like a very intelligent person. Suthesutsun!

[Guest]

I agree with you Steve and Raffi. We are awful to each other . However throughout our history we have been this way. It is within our nature.

I was born in Lebanon, but i live in Greece since i was 5 years old. I've been a student in Melkonian (best armenian school in the diaspora ) and there i grew up with Armenians from all over the world. We learned from each other and came into terms with each others' cultural differences.

I believe this is the way to go forward.

[Guest]

It's funny, Raffi H., when you talk about cultural differences; we're from the same culture! But you're right to use these terms because that's actually how Armenians see it. Is there something so different between Armenians and Armenians ? Things will change. Thanks for your support.

[Guest]

Yes, you're right that we adopt, in a way, the culture of our adoptive country but Armenians have been able to keep the Armenian culture with them everywhere they went.

By the way when you say "hopefully we'll share the same future" is very well said! I share the exact same feeling and couldn't have said in in other words.

[Guest]

Cultural differences between Armenians exist, because they come from various countries where they had to adapt to the local customs and ways of life. It is not bad , but it shouldn't be a cause of conflict between Armenians. After all we share the same historical backgrounds and hopefully we'll share the same future.

[Guest]

Why are armenians so disunited?

A question I ask myself constantly. And there is no mature answer to this. The only logical answer I come up with is PRIDE. Armenians are very proud - proud of who they are, proud of their history, culture, religion, etc. But they are also PROUD as a Hayastantsi, Parskahay, Libananahay. And for some reason each person seems to think (not everybody of course) that he or she is a BETTER armenian than the others. A factor that has worked in our favor (PRIDE) is also working against us. If you notice there is even disunity between people of different cities. This is true for Hayastantsis, Libananahays and Parskahays. I can't comment on other groups since I have not had much contact with them. And now, here in LA, we even have this disunity between Hollywood-tsi and Glendale-tsi. If it was not so sad, it would be funny.

 

To summarize my thoughts I will say this. We, Armenians, are extremists. You can notice this in all aspects of our lives. We are extremists and have too much EMPTY PRIDE. Unless we work on improving ourselves and act wisely - the disunity will be part of us forever. We have to realize that at this point - we are our own biggest enemy. We need to pull the vail off our eyes and see who we should be fighting vs. who we are actually fighting.

 

And for those of you who might wonder. I DO practice what I "PREACH."

 

Astvats Dzez Het...

[Guest]

I think some of the disunity among Armenians may have to do with the loyality that Armenians have to their countries of origin. I am no better! I prefer Iranian music, food and I hate to say it, people over my own! So I confess! I guess this is the same with other Armenians. The Lipanahyes are very attached to Lebanon and Arab culture, and Greek Armenians can be more Greek than the Greeks themselves.This may be why Odars like Armenians so much. yes even the hated Turks for centuries favored Armenians in the Ottoman court because of their loyality! (That seems incredible, but its true) THis is very similar to the Jews. They are not as united as people tend to think. There is a great deal of friction between the Sephardic Jews of Northern African origin, and the White European Jews, not to mention the treatment of the Ethiopian Jews.

[Guest]

Sulamita and Steve, you both are right! There's even this normous pride about being Sassountsi or Zeituntsi or... etc. People! We have to unite!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
I think some of the disunity among Armenians may have to do with the loyality that Armenians have to their countries of origin. I am no better! I prefer Iranian music, food and I hate to say it, people over my own! So I confess! I guess this is the same with other Armenians. The Lipanahyes are very attached to Lebanon and Arab culture, and Greek Armenians can be more Greek than the Greeks themselves.This may be why Odars like Armenians so much. yes even the hated Turks for centuries favored Armenians in the Ottoman court because of their loyality! (That seems incredible, but its true) THis is very similar to the Jews. They are not as united as people tend to think. There is a great deal of friction between the Sephardic Jews of Northern African origin, and the White European Jews, not to mention the treatment of the Ethiopian Jews.

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Barevner,
Basing on this conversation one can easily come to the conclusion that the only people attached to Armenia are the Armenians living in Armenia. So the way to unite is to go to Armenia and live there with single Armenian citizenship.
Shnorhakalutyun

[Guest]

Lav, hima het em ege! I hate to resurrect this dormant topic, but once again I had a negative experience with my so called fellow Armenians. Me, my girlfriend, my cousin and her boyfriend went to a Lebanese restaurant, and happened to find out the musician playing was Hay. We went up to him to say "barev" and strike up a conversation. What rudeness and coldness we were met with!We might as well have been Azeris for him! And my cousin is pure Armenian, so I couldn't chalk it up to my being ges hay. He basically said "okay you're Armenians, big deal!" But boy how friendly he was with the American patrons. I bet if I had shut my mouth and passed for an American he would have been my buddy! Guys why so much of this? ANd its not just me, so many other Armenians say the same. I have had better reception from the Turks I encounter than my "akhbers!"

[Guest]

Farsi jan,

 

The thing is that you don't know how to treat this kind of situation. Say the following to him:

"Ara, ai tgha, ba du hye es. To qo vren hye-i namus u pativ a mnacel. Tasibt korcrats et Amerikacu hetevn es lzum. Gna lzi bayc gone asa Turk es vor mer vra amot chgces. Es kez hye asoghi mer@...".

I don't really know what will happen after that, but I think this is the only way to prove that kind of guy that despite of you're different look, you're more Armenian than him.

 

Arayzhm

[Guest]

Steve, I have nothing to say because it is the first time i read about one Armenian being treated with another in the way you've explained. Even in Russia when there are a lot of Armenians we are always heppy to meat our brothers.

But generally saying Armenians are very united, especially in countries with few armenians, I don't know about America, I haven't been there.

[Guest]

Mersi Berj, again I like your advice! Wow whats the world coming to?! Anyway Artur, you are in for a rude awakening if you ever visit the U.S.A. I hate to sound like you now but something happens to Armenians when they come here, for the worse. You will probably get a much friendlier reception from Blacks, Mexicans, Chinese and other peoples than Armenians!

[Guest]

bolors el unenk mer te vat yev te lav korrmer.

Yev linelov Hye srty tsavov enk @endunum yerb mi urish Hye mez normal chi verabervum .

irar enk xpum irar kortsanum

yev urishnerin orinak berum , te lavn en nrank !!

herik irar aryun xmek .

 

arten hoknel ek yerevi im xoseluts .

 

amen inch mezanits e kaxvats te mer pativ@ yev te mer anun@ yev te mer n@patakner,

chnayats amen Hye che vor iyspisin e

shater@ kan vor 5 kilometri vrayist aryunt qashum e magnisi n@man

yes otarutyan mej apror Hye em

indz hamar Hye@ ver e amen inchits jisht e djvar e sakayn amen djvarutyun ir qartsrutyun @uni .

e vercho tesnum es iyn inch ko isk sirt@t e teladrum vor tesnes.

kam varvum en kez het iynpes inchpes vor du es irenst het varvum .

Mi kich aveli lavates yerek yerevi iyd jamanak aveli laverin k@handipek.

Ruseren asat kakoy privet takoy atvet.

te martkanst lavatseutyamb ches motenalu aveli lava tun @mna yev khormesabsit ker.

yev bavakan e meks mekis vra mat parzenk te du es merravor kam du es sxal

Bolors el sxal enk bolors el merravor.

qani vor sa mer bolori masin e !!!!

 

 

der chem verchatsrel )

32 tarekan em arten linum yev chem hishum mek angam tekuz vor yerkichi moteman yev yerkich@ indz vat @enduni

Los Angelso aveli kan 50 Haykakan restoran yev jashxaranner kan mi hat ary gnank tsankatsats restoran tsankatsats yerkichi motenam tes te inch Urax en @endunum MEZ HAYERIS

MArt@s MArtova a Mart linum

Hyen el Hayov a Hay linum

 

 

[This message has been edited by JanFedayi (edited June 09, 2000).]

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
I am writing this to ask why Armenians are not as close-knit as they should be. I have a Cuban friend here in California, everytime she comes in contact with another Cuban, its like a reunion, they hug and are instant friends, whether they are Black or Spanish origin. I notice when I come in contact with Armenians I get a cool reception. A case in point is the Armenian restaurant I used to frequent. Yes vor ges hyem, Hye chem numanum. Bits Hayeren khosumem(shaat laav che!). Anyway, I found the service to be very good and friendly until I decided to announce I was Armenian, then there was a sudden change,which was noted by my friends. I have had repeated incidents like this, as have most of my family who are Armenians.

By contrast, Iranians, who are my countrymen by birth ( I was born in Iran) are so friendly when I speak to them in my less than perfect Farsi. THe other day I encountered a wonderful Persian couple at Starbucks Coffee and struck up a conversation with them. THe next thing I knew they were paying for my cup of coffee! It would be a cold day in Hell before Armenians would do that! I know I sound very bitter, but that has been my experience with my Armenians. Inch anem! Etensen!

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Steve, I can totally relate on how you feel when you see your Cuban friend interact with her friends. The behaviour that you see in your friend is typical latino culture. I am Hye from Argentina, and Armenians there behave the same way as your Cuban friend. It is sad for me to see the separation between Armenians here in CA., you enter a room at a Barahantes, Church or any other social event and you get the X-ray look instead of a warm and friendly smile...just imagine the look I received when I went to my first Armenian party here and gave a kiss on the cheek to every person that I was introduced to, I got the look of AMOT E!!...
I believe that unity between Armenians here in the States will only happen once 2 or 3 generations have gone by and there is no longer I'm from X country, It will be I'm American of Armenian descent. To all who read this, next time you go to an Armenian party and you see a young lady/men alone and bored at their parents table, don't be shy to share a smile and invite them to join your table and your friends...this is a typical behaviour at Armenian barahantes in Argentina, and Armenians there are very close to each other!!! Success will only come when we all Unite.