Those who don't learn from history...

[Kosior]

I am a 20 year old American from the Boston area. I have been doing a great deal of research in the

last couple of months about American media, and their selective coverage of news. I happened

to find a link to a site about the 1915 Armenian Genocide, and was appauled. Not only by the act

itself, but by the fact that I had never even heard about it. I'm not extremely well educated (high

school and one year of college) but I've taken my share of history courses, and it frightens me that

the slaughter of 1.5 million people could be left out of any history text and barely acknowleged by

the rest of the world. What scares me even more is that the average citizen of the most powerful

and influencial country in the world, when asked what there thoughts are on a horror like the

Armenian Genocide or any other exterminaton of a people (except the jewish holocaust because

there was a movie made about it) would probably be, "Oh, that's too bad. So what's on T.V. tonight?"

I know because I've been asking these questions, and though it's wrong to make generalizations

because there are Americans who care, but there are far more that don't. For these reasons I really

do worry about the future of my country and the world, especially with America's recent efforts to

overthrow the Iraqi government, and it's consistent indifferance to international opposition

on many issues. I guess the only thing I can do is educate as many people as I can about the things

that they won't learn from the media, and if more people did that I think the would would be a better

place...

[khodja]

The Armenian Genocide was expunged from American school history texts for decades BECAUSE armenia was part of the Soviet Union AND Turkey was a needed ally against the Soviets. There was a window after the Soviet Union fell where the Genocide emerged. Now the Turks are palying the Iraq/Iran fiddle. However, this scenario is not as clear cut for them. The Turkish govenrment was able to influence total control of American society on this issue for decades.

[joseph]

Bravo Hagarag,I could not say it better.

[khodja]

Bravo, Hovsep! We can all coalesce on the issues SO important to ALL Armenians. We can agree to disagree on other topics, but show a UNITED front on the important issues.

[Rubo]

Dear Kosior, Welcome! You have lot of youthful purity and I commend you for looking into tragic event of Armenian Genocide. It is particularly painful for Armenians since it whipped out almost half of the entire Armenian nation. It also dispersed the remaining Armenians all over the globe like leaves in the wind. Magnitude of this tragedy is so enormous that instead of three thousand dead Americans from 9/11 imagine one hundred and forty million Americans killed brutally and their properties confiscated and uprooted from their ancestral lands. For us no movie can explain this pain. American pop culture in generally does not dwell in history, already Vietnam war seems a distant past and ww2 might as well be in Jurassic era nevertheless lot of states such as California and Massachusetts do teach about AG in schools. Let us know if you need anything.

Regards

[Azat]

Kosior, welcome to HyeForum. There are many on this forum who may be of help to you if you need to know much more about AG.

 

Dear Ruben, In the days I went to public school(ya I know we use to take a horse and buggy to school) nothing about AG was mentioned by our teachers or in the text books even though there were over 500 Armenian students in my high school. Maybe in the last 10(ok ok 20) years they have changed. Man I feel old.

[Sip]

I went to highschool from 92 to 94 in LA ... they didn't even teach us basic math and reading/writing let alone even mention a country outside of the north American continent. Most people in my school probably thought Armenia was something below Headinia and above Leginia. Seriously ... they don't even know more than 12 states

[Rubo]

Dear Azat and Sip while it is true when you and I went to high school in CA (I graduated from Hollywood high 84) the AG was not taught but lot has been changed since then and due to many thanks to grass root activists. I also agree that the attention span of a teenager is rather short on history regardless whose and I care more about AG teaching on university level. UCLA, Harvard, and many others have already great Armenian studies programs which should extend on all universities.

 

Poochigian Request for Money to Update Genocide Handbook Passes First Hurdle

 

SACRAMENTO -- State Senator Charles Poochigian (R-Fresno) is pleased the budget request that he submitted for teaching material on the subject of genocide was approved by the Senate Budget Subcommittee on Education. The $59,000 request will, if approved in the final budget, pay for the updating and printing of the California Model Curriculum for Human Rights and Genocide for distribution to school districts statewide. Senator Poochigian said, "This is the first vital step to getting funding for this important handbook." The handbook was originally published by the State Board of Education in 1987 and distributed statewide. Some passages describing modern human rights abuses will be updated to reflect related historical events that have occurred since 1987. Technical changes to cross reference recently updated curriculum frameworks will also be made.Senator Poochigian said, "It is important that our students are reading updated material that reflects modern human rights abuses and historical events involving crimes against humanity.

"Note: While the State Board of Education included the Armenian Genocide in grade 10 of the statewide K-12 history/social science standards adopted in December 1998, this handbook is the curricular guide for teaching students this important event in the classrooms of California.

Edward Royce (R-CA-39)

 

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the leaders of the Armenian Caucus for bringing us together to honor the memory of a tragedy, not just in Armenian history, but a tragedy in world history, a tragedy that holds for us an important historical lesson and one that should be acknowledged. As discussed, it was 85 years ago that the Ottoman Empire set out on a deliberate campaign to exterminate the Armenian people. Over a period of years, between 1915 and 1923, as they went house to house, village to village, they massacred men, women, and children, a total of 1.5 million, and a half million deported from their homelands to escape their terror. At the end of these 8 years, the Armenian population in certain areas in Turkey, in Anatolia, in Western Armenia, that population was virtually eliminated. At the time, as we have heard from our colleagues, Henry Morgantheau, the U.S. ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, depicted the Turkish order for deportations as a death warrant to a whole race. Our ambassador recognized that this was ethnic cleansing. It is unfortunate that the Turkish government to this day does not recognize that this was ethnic cleansing. Let me just say that willful ignorance of the lessons of history doom people to repeat those same actions again and again. We have also heard from our colleagues tonight how Adolph Hitler learned that same lesson, as he said, who remembers the Armenian genocide? Well, it is important for us to remember these genocides. It is important that we learn the lesson from this 85-year-old tragedy. In my home State of California, the State Board of Education has incorporated the story of the Armenian genocide in the social studies curriculum, and this is the right thing to do.

 

Curricular and Instructional Programs and Practices

Facing History and Ourselves is a National Diffusion Network program recognized as an exemplary model program by the U.S. Department of Education.

 

Curriculum materials, developed for grade K through 12 and the college level, include a teacher's manual, grade-specific teacher guides, in-service training video, historical books, personal stories, bibliographies, blackline teaching aids, photographs, slides, posters, drawings, maps, music cassette, and art. Program coordinators sponsor an intensive teacher training and support program where participants gain hands-on practice and immediate peer feedback on innovative methods and resources. There are over 600 sites and pilot sites throughout the nation. A brochure and program evaluation materials are available.

The Facing History and Ourselves curriculum uses historical events such as the Nazi Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide to raise and explore issues of abuse of power and breakdown of morality. Students become aware of racism, hatred, prejudice and indifference, and can explore the impact of societal events on themselves and others and explore ways that they might structure their behavior for desired social outcomes. Classes are taught using films, readings, class discussions, guest speakers, and student journals. The curricular program can be used separately or can be incorporated into one or more subject areas. The curricular emphasis is on student inquiry, analysis, and interpretation. Facing History provides training for teachers, clergy, and other adult leaders interested in instituting the program in their community.

[khodja]

Rubo,

 

Is the support for this legislation not bipartisan? How about the support of Armenian-American California State Senator Jacqueline Speier and Armenian-American Congresswoman Anna Eshoo? Your partisan bent becomes SO apparent. At least, I am up-front about my loyalties.

 

I am VERY familiar with "Facing History and Ourselves," an excellent organization.

[Rubo]

Hagarag I am flabbergasted how you arrived to your last post? Just so I can put you at ease about my “political bends” I will state it once for all.

There are issues I support Republicans mainly reduced taxes and keeping big government out of our lives but that is where it ends.

I am extremely liberal bent when it comes to war, killing of innocent lives, social issues, who you sleep with (not my business with whom even if to a cat) I don’t care traditional parties in most cases. Last time I voted Ralph Nadir as president and support animal rights and green parties.

In Armenian politics I support Karabagh independence. ANCA and I whole heartily support Armenian activism, If I bring up the Jews it only to highlight the successful model. Why reinvent the wheel?

If I had extra cash I would probably donate to Armenian worthy causes such as supporting the orphanages in Armenia or supporting Karabagh war veterans who lost an arm or a leg and cannot work. So in conclusion I probably do not fit in a neat box but I suspect most people either. People are lot more complex then we usually think. Most democrats do have very conservative values and vice versa. Life is never clear-cut one dimensional at least that has been my experience.

Regards

[Azat]

WOOOHOOOOOOO, Rubo is an old fart compare to me. (Marshall High 87)

[Rubo]

Azat, it is funny all the rabiz were kick out to Marshal High from Hollywood High.Remember the stupid "lobi" wars?

[Azat]

I know. and I do remember all the stupid "lobi" wars and such. But you know what I really do miss those days. They were alot of fun.

[Sip]

It has gotten pretty ugly recently... those relatively innocent "lobi" wars have turned into full fledged race wars, mostly between the Armenians and the Mexicans. It has even ended in several murders and some VERY ugly things

 

I am trully disgusted by some of the Armenian kids around here these days. I realize it's a rather general statement, but that's how I feel. It's all "rabiz" this, and "rabiz" that, and "I am a gangsta" this and "I am a thug" that ... and worst of all, they do it waving the Armenian flag http://zr2.cs.ucla.edu/Sip/zr2/barf.gif

 

[ September 19, 2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[Azat]

I am with you on all that Sip. I think about a year ago some Armenian kid even killed a Mexican kid because he had looked at his girlfriend at Hoover high. How sad it that. When I hear all this I keep wondering where the parents are? Why are they not controlling their kids. Why do they get their 16 year olds bMW and MB and allow them to turn into punks? Parents are sadly to be blamed for most of these problems.

 

I do have to say that I am glad that I went to Marshall at a time when it was fairly good compare to now. They have metal detectors at Marshall now for the last 3-4 years. What happened?

 

Rubo, sorry we changed your subject a little.

[Accelerated]

mmm, sounds pretty bad, I have heard on many occasions how some Armenians behave badly in LA, but its the first time I hear of 'race wars' with Mexicans. We are a small nation and really cant afford this type of idiocy.

[Azat]

Dear Hagarag, Democrats are no saints either. BTW is "inexperienced" for "criminal" as Simon is nothing less than a criminal. And he has my much chance of winning the governors race as my grandma who is not even running and has been dead for a while. But I have to say that for the first time ever in my life I am not going to vote for the democrat as well, Davis is a criminal himself. He has partially to be blamed for the mess CA is in with the Energy crisis and all the money he spent on it.

 

As for the second paragraph you wrote. I have no comments about it.

[khodja]

Azat,

 

As you are not a politician, I can understand that you have no comment about my second paragraph. You probably follow everything your Der Hayr spews out without question.

 

BUT anyone who is concerned about winning elections MUST be concerned about these things. Califronia is a unique state. Not only does it have numerous numbers of racial and ethnic minorities, but has one major metropolitan region filled with homosexuals and another major metropolitan region whose commercial base has a strong entertainment component. Alternative sexualities of all sorts are prevalent within this industry. Many of the top dogs are not exclusively heterosexual. As long as the Republicans are running their campaigns according to the "fatwas" emanating from the Christian Ayatolla in Anaheim, they will not be winning any major elections in California.

[khodja]

For your information the Christian Ayatolla of Anaheim, would be considerd a Jew by the Jewish religion as his mother was a Jew.

[Azat]

Hagarag, I am my own Der Hayr as I have not been to church for ages. So your comments don't make sense once again.

 

I did not want to comment on your stupid line for not getting laid for 20 years as it had nothing to do with this thread. That is all I was saying. But you somehow seem to turn every comment people make a political thing and try to call them conservatives and start bashing them.

 

For you information I have never(Unlike you) voted conservative(republican or anything else[not that it is a crime]) in my life and will not do it anytime soon. But looks like you kissed some Pete Wilson behind before you changed your mind.

[Rubo]

I did not want to comment on your stupid line for not getting laid for 20 years as it had nothing to do with this thread.

 

Please read my reply in comedy section

[Kosior]

At least in my high school (Foxborough High School in Massachucetts) there was no mention of the Armenian Genocide. I took standard history classes, but I also asked a friend of mine from the same school who took Advanced Placement History, no mention there either (although he said it was brought up in one of his college history classes). BTW thanks for the warm welcome everyone!

[khodja]

Rubo,

 

You would be surprised to know that for many years that I was an avid Republican. I supported George Deukmejian and Pete Wilson in his first years as Governor of California, before his sharp turn to the right. BUT, the Republicans are now on a JIHAD, hell-bent on destroying others and themselves in California. They shot down their best chance of winning the governorship by nominating an inexperienced social conservative. Four years ago they lost miserably with a VERY EXPERIENCED social conservative. I doubt they will win this year with an inexperienced one.

 

Except for the time I was in a monogamous marriage and minimal sexual activity in a committed non-marriage relationship with a woman, I have practiced celibacy for the past 20 years. The bastards who control the Republican Party are conducting witch hunts to remove VERY competent persons form their jobs. They are going back years to uncover the pasts of people. It smacks of what occured under Stalin in the Soviet Union. Ashcroft is our Beria.

[MadArmo]

I just had the urge to respond again, Yeah I became part of the infamous exidos. Do any of you guys remember the Ararat group or the original A.P. 7 from Hollywood? Ahhhh, The good old days of lobi bashing were lot's of karate practice, Man those days were rough to be an Armenian, We even crossed into Glendale city limits to defend Armenians attending G H S & Hoover, Indeed times change but the headackes never go away...

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~artsakh/_images/armen.gif

 

[ September 21, 2002, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: MadArmo ]

[MadArmo]

Wow !

 

Hollywood High !

 

Rubo jan,

 

You might remember it, It was in the main building eh.

 

Here is a blast from the past...

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~artsakh/_images/sassouni.jpg