armenian girls and sexuality

[Guest]

The question of what came first "the chicken or the egg ? " is still without an answer.

 

So if you are honest enough to accept premarital virginity for men also, then I rest my case, otherwise nobody has more rights than others. I believe equality and love are one of the primary Christian preachings.

[Guest]

All right Raffi, you're back. Finally a rational level headed person. There is so much hypocrisy and medieval thought being espoused here. Don't get me wrong I am no sixties free love person. I am an evangelical Christian who believes in monogamy and the morals that the Bible puts forth. But there is little Christian love shown by some of these guys like Artur and Berj. They sound more Old Testament Jewish than Christian. Remember Jesus showed forgiveness to MAry Magdalene! Read your Bibles if you are going to preach!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by raffiaharonian:
The question of what came first "the chicken or the egg ? " is still without an answer.

So if you are honest enough to accept premarital virginity for men also, then I rest my case, otherwise nobody has more rights than others. I believe equality and love are one of the primary Christian preachings.

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Adam came first. Then came Yeva, who was made from a part of Adam, and for Adam. Then she ate the well known apple, and here we are on the earth. So, even the first sin was commited by a girl.
Man I'm working realy hard to be ***ually moral. But, the girls surrounding me are becoming more and more agreeing. If I reject their agreement I will seem sick to myself. If not, than I'm promoting the situation. This is a magical sircle. Its just, when it concerns our Armenian girls, it becomes ...I don't know. Any way I've never touched a virgin.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
All right Raffi, you're back. Finally a rational level headed person. There is so much hypocrisy and medieval thought being espoused here. Don't get me wrong I am no sixties free love person. I am an evangelical Christian who believes in monogamy and the morals that the Bible puts forth. But there is little Christian love shown by some of these guys like Artur and Berj. They sound more Old Testament Jewish than Christian. Remember Jesus showed forgiveness to MAry Magdalene! Read your Bibles if you are going to preach!

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Ok Farsi,
So, girls must first become Mary Magdalenes, and then to be forgiven by Jesus. Let them be st. Mariams form beginning to the end of their lives, and never need anybody's forgiveness.

What do you think?

[Guest]

SO girls must be like Mary the Mother of Jesus? Why don't you become more like Jesus and show some Christian love instead of Old Testament legalism! It would be great if all girls could be like Holy Mary, but she was specially chosen by God to be holy, at least that is what the Armenian Church preaches. Unfortunately most of us fall into sin, both men and women, how wonderful that Christ offers us forgiveness, yes for even you Berj!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Artur:
Sulamita, I just wish that none of Armenian would be able to read what you've wrote!
Anyways, i do not want to comment everything you say, because there is no point to argue with an american girl, moral values of these people are nothing compare to Armenians! SHAME!

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Artur,

Yes ch@gitem te du verjin angam yerb es yeghel Hayastanum bayts qo patkeratsum@ shat aveli varvrun guynerov e qan irakanum ka. Du norits veradarnum es nuyn ketin - indz pitakum vorpes Americatsi yev jxtum im bolor asatner@ dra vra himnvelov. Indz hamar bolorovin hajeli che @ndunel ayn vijak@ vor tirum e Hayastanum (yes i nkati unem barqeri ankum@) bayts yev chem sirum kotskel iroghutyun@. TESNUM em ayn inch ka, yev ASUM em ayn inch tesnum em. Isk inch yes tesa Hayastanum (konkret Yerevanum) 1999-i amran@ bolovin partsenalu yerevuyt cher hay azgi hamar. Yete du ches uzum @ndunel IROGHUTYUN@, da qo andznakan voroshumn e. Ch@nayats vor im kartsiqov da nmanvum e verq@ arandz bujelu virakapelun. Menak achqits heru lini tqats vor kamats kamats marmin@ ksksi pttel. Shat em tsankanum vor mi or azgovi mer mijits hanenq ays hivandagin snapartsutyun@ - @nduneq mer terutyunner@, mer problemner@, yev mtatseq ayn shtkelu masin - poxanak jxtelu nra goyutyun@.

Sulami

[Guest]

Valod,

 

Nax yev araj du chunes patshaj verabermunq yev harganq hay aghjka handep. Yev ayd patjarov imast chem gtnum 2-rd angam im tesaket@ qez parzabanelu.

 

Sulami

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Berj:

I am sure there is a very good reason for it - evolution wise that is.

You're analysing this just in terms of physiology. Put some religion in it. Does your soul has anything to do with virginity.

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Berj,

Yete Qristoneakan tesankyunits diteq harts@, ayd fizikakan factor@ aynqan karevor che vorqan hogekan@. Surb Girqn asum e - Nayev meghavor e na ov hogov e shnanum (kneres konkret barern chem hishum). Aysinqn, mek@ karogh e fizikapes linel "anarat" bayts aveli meghavor (qani vor mtovi trvel e mi qanisin) qan mek urish@ vor fizikapes "aratavor" e bayts hogepes maqur yev havatarim miayn MEK t@ghamardu. Sa im kartsiqn e.

Sulami

[Guest]

Ughvats bolorin:

 

Yes haskanum em vor im asatsner@ hajeli chen. Yes haskanum em vor hay aghjka koghmits anamotutyun e hamarvum xosel ays hartseri shurj. Bayts yes parzapes asum en ayn inch bolor@ mtatsum en yev gitaktsum parzapes chen hamardzakvum bartsadzayn artahaytvel. Patjarner@ shat en. Dzer reaktsianer@ parz orinak dra. Voch voq chi sirum anteghi viravorvel, arjananal ktsu xosqeri, darnal ANMEGH MEGHAVOR. Yuraqancyur@ geradasum e lrel, ir mej pahelov IROGHUTYAN paster@.

Isk ch@xoselov vochinch chi poxvum, chen veranum yerevuytner@. Yete bolors el kangnenq yev gochenq "Hayastanum marmnavajaner ch@kan, Hayastanum bolor aghjikner@ kuys en, Hayastanum hay aghjikner@ aprum en aynpes inchpes mer tatern en aprel 100 tari araj... yev ayl yev ayln" vochinch chi poxvelu - kyanq@ sharunakvelu e aynpes inchpes vor ka. Marmnavajar@ poghotsi vra kangnats ir gortsn e anelu isk parzapes hogov anbaroyakan@ shnanalu e patahats t@ghamardu het. Karogh eq xul, kuyr, himar dzevanal bayts dranov cheq poxi vochinch. CHEQ POXI VOCHINCH MINCHEV CH@NDUNEQ PROBLEMNER@.

 

Aysqan@.

[Guest]

Akh inch lav! Suthesutsun!

[Guest]

Akh! Inch lav vor etumes, suthesutsun!

[Guest]

Artur jan nayi aper ary massayakan chxosenk .

chanyats vor aprum em USA chi nshanakum te poxvel enk kam iynkan enk poxvel vor anjanacheli yev mi urrish gruppayi mas enk kazmel.

yes Hayei tasib@ haskatsor mart em

i vercho Haykakan shkolan em antsel .

vorpes viravorank mi @enduni .

iyskan@ qez Artur jan

isk inch verabervuma e germanu arrvesin to herika martkants nerratsnes ko himmar amerikyan aprelakerpov kez el ko american el ko aprelakerpn , keratst xot chi ? tesatst xot chi ? nuyn el urrerit mej .

[Guest]

What if she is not??? If she is not then she is a ****ed up woman with no respect!!! What will she tell to her children??? That she has been having fun with tens of guys before their daddy, and then stuck on him?!! I don't what my children think that their mum has been ****ing before the marriage!!! It is the shame!!! Your Right to fall in love = Right to **** around!!

 

Woman in armenian families are the ones who take care of kids and grow them in the "right" way. And imagine if some "prostitute" grows your kids???!!!!!

 

Fair???!!! This is fair!!! Woman gain respect when they are dedicated to ONE man!! I don't know how you can merry a girl that been with someone else. You are just ****ed up!!!!!!!!

 

Ahh, hell with you... I don't care what american people think about...

This is an Armenian forum, I don't understand why there are so much americans here.

 

About turks: I have a lot of friends from Turkey and Armenia that would die for me tommorow, that's why they are my brothers! Look at the life my friend it is not 1915!!! The world's changed!

 

This is my last message about this topic because i see no point to talk to changed people like you all, you lived too much in the US, you've lost everything you had. american people are very much different from Armenians that is the fact. So the only place for discussion for you is American forums!!! SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BYE!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by raffiaharonian:

Berj , you seem to be honest enough to admit the moral dilema each normal person faces.

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Raffi,
I'm too much educated to be the person which Farsi thinks I am. The one and only point I was trying to make was that the emancipation of Armenian women is dangerous at present. When we will gather 50-60 mln people in one secure, strong and rich state, it will not be that dangerous. I took lectures of War History in the University, and I know which country wins a war (including modern). We are not so technically advansed to use air-strikes.

Berj

[Guest]

I am back!! I hope you all don't have any regrets about that?!

I was going to say that this whole thing doesn't have to be discussed here like that!

I consider myself to be a very conservative girl, but i also respect other people's opinions.

So please, guys, don't kill each other here, OK?

If somebody likes a girl like Mary Magdalene, that's his own business.

I agree with Berj.

Hope that the majority likes the other Mary type

[Guest]

Vaaay, Nvard jan es ur? eir chkair. Stegh an-Nvard saghov zohvum enq vret khabar chka. Ba karli a esqan gel-u-gazani dzer@ internet tal u esqan zhamanak menak toghel. Myus angam senc ban anes karogha norutyunnerov lses vor ashkhari amboghj web canc@ vari a gnacel mi khumb hayeri dzerqov.

Hla du mi tes, serakan haraberutyunneri veraberyal topic@ eqqqqqa erku ej tegh a gravel. Heto el asum en te hayer@ hetamnac en.

[Guest]

Es meke lav asir

[Guest]

ge neres JanFedayi ,sagayn kou kortzatzatz

hayerene shad tjvar e .Shad rousagan parer kortzatzoum es yev menk (arevmdahayere) chenk grnar gor hedevil. Koutse krnayir ankleren kortzatzel?

 

It seem Artur has nothing to add. His points make no sense to a normal person.

I am not an American Armenian. I live in Greece and yet your points and ideas tells me that you are very selfish and narrow headed person. I am not trying to insult you, but be honest to yourself.

Have you ever discussed your parents ***ual life with them?

Sorry for being old fashioned , but in our family these things stay between the walls of my parents bedroom.

 

Berj , you seem to be honest enough to admit the moral dilema each normal person faces.

 

For me it is important to understand that all men and women are equal. Nobody is superior to the other. God and Jesus wanted it that way ...

 

We should love and care for all women, but my God , Armenian women have a special place in my heart. I love them and respect them double. God bless all Armenians.

[Guest]

Quoted: Have you ever disscused you parents ***ual life with them?

I can't even talk about girls generally sitting in the same table with my father.

Egual or not, it is not the thing discussed in Armenia. Woman takes care of the family and being honest to her husband! Man takes care of all of them, financially and protect!

That's it! If you call it enegaulity, then it is from your point of view, you have your own opinion.

And nothing can be compared to an Armenian girl. However, there can be no respect to girls who act or think in "American" way Shame! This is my opinion and you have a choice of disagreement!

 

Originally posted by raffiaharonian:

[Guest]

Artur jan, het es eke? Gartsam vor gunumes! Garoghes mahat "Hayastan" forum batses yete menk "Americans" kezi et kan kezi neghatsnumenk!

[Guest]

At the risk of pouring fuel upon the fire, so to speak, I have to reply.

 

My very sincere and heartfelt thanks go out to the couple of people who dared support some of my views. Thank you.

 

I have to say that I had a tremendous reaction to the number and intensity of the replies posted. Reading through some of these replies, however, elicited some very mixed, contradictory, and deeply felt emotions.

 

First, to all the armenian guys who so vehemently scorned my views and my behavior. My pride is deeply wounded at such judgment, but I had braced myself against it, so I'll leave it upon your own conscience to come to terms with having dealt with me so harshly. To those men who feel my behavior threatens the very fabric of armenian society...do you know me? do you know my thoughts, my beliefs, and yes, my morals? (virginity is NOT the be-all and end-all of moral or immoral behavior, believe it or not) How dare you imply that I'd raise my children in any sort of an immoral fashion! But I don't suppose I could make any of you, who are so narrow minded, comprehend that concept. To those who prize virginity above all else in a woman, it's laughable, really. I could point out dozens of armenian girls who pretend to be virgins, gentlemen. And these are the girls you marry. Yes, these liars and frauds will be your wives. Congratulations. (and yes, they will pass that thorough background check you will put them through..pass with flying colors). Congratulations yet again.

 

I find it interesting and certainly very telling of our culture that you judged me so completely without so much as undertaking a single step to know me. But c'est la vi, I suppose.

 

Thank you again to the few of you who responded positively. I realize you may not agree with all of my views(and complete agreement is not needed), but your candid thoughts are to your credit as individuals with honesty and integrity to spare. Thank you.

 

As a final thought, I'll bring up a biblical statement, since a few were brought up already (this is from my admittedly narrow study of the bible)..."let him who has not sinned throw the first stone"...

 

adieu,

g.s.

[Guest]

Bravo Armenian Cleopatra. I liked the way you handled the criticism.

You are a brave Armenian woman.

[Guest]

Dear ArmenianCleopatra,

I read your comments on ***uality and the Armenian Backdrop... This is certainly a topic worth exploring concerning all women in the world. I am just wondering why you feel the need to explain what your "status" is, if you indeed feel that it is such a personal issue? Nevertheless, I agree with your epiphany.

 

ArmenianCleopatra:

 

Greetings my fellow armenians...

 

Disclaimer: I'd like to bring up a very controversial topic and I hope no one will shoot me over this..lol..

 

There's a lot I adore about our culture. The strength of our men, the beauty of our women, our family centered lives, etc etc...(all that traditional stuff)..

 

There is, however, one point I absolutely cannnot stand: the double standard employed universally against all armenian women. We're judged not on our character, but on our purity, not on our worth as human beings, but on some artificial "qualifying test" we either pass or fail when we speak of our VIRGINITY. Well, I can tell you right now, I always fail that one )...No, I'm not a virgin. Am I ashamed of it? No. I feel like it's such a personal matter, a personal choice. Yet I can't help feeling almost guilty, like I've somehow betrayed my culture and my people when I say I'm not a virgin. Why do I feel this way? It's the weight of years of virtual imprisonement of our women's ***ual desires that makes me feel this way. Centuries upon centuries of men who prized virgin brides and women who could not fail to meet that criterion or they would be severely ostracized by society, ridiculed, left unmarried (ironically, perhaps the greatest punishment).

 

Believe me, it'd be MUCH easier for me to conceal the fact that i'm not a virgin, to lie to men who love me, make them love me more for my assumed purity. But I can't. And I don't. Not only because my personal integrity will not allow me to conceal or lie, but because I feel it's important to at least try to make others understand that it's not "wrong" or "immoral", but merely another choice.

 

So I'd like to appeal to your collective Armenian conscience to stop judging armenian girls who chose not to be virgins, to stop making them feel "guilty" for a crime they didn't commit. Please, let's be more tolerant.

 

I hope this strikes a chord with other armenian girls who may not be ***ually active but would like the FREEDOM to make that CHOICE. It's not about the ***, ladies and gentlemen. It's about the CHOICE.

 

To all the armenian guys who I find wonderful in so many truly "armenian" ways, please allow your women that choice.

 

To all the amazing armenian women, let's lobby for that choice. Maybe not now, maybe not in 10 years, but someday, let's hope we win the right to make that choice.

 

I consider this the first step in that crusade.

 

I look forward to any replies.

 

liberated, but very armenian )

 

g.s.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by ArmenianCleopatra:


As a final thought, I'll bring up a biblical statement, since a few were brought up already (this is from my admittedly narrow study of the bible)..."let him who has not sinned throw the first stone"...

adieu,
g.s.

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Ay kezi baaaan! I was so amazed that even forgot to print my thoughts before posting them.
A fished out fragment of Bible adjusted to the situation and then adieu...
Stop making those biblical statments. Bible is not a super-market where you can buy goods for stuffing your stomac. It's a universal idea!!! to be achieved by constant sacrifice. You know whom I believe, I believe St. Hripsime, St. Gayane who sacrificed their lifes not to obey the pagan king's demands. I believe thousands of Armenian girls and women who threw themselves from rocks not to be raped by the Turks and Kurds. They had their truth. You have your truth. Die for you truth and everybody will believe you. Because only the person who perishes for his truth must be given credit.
Do I know you, yes sure, you're CLEOPAAAAATRA, a woman who provoced war between everybody to sleep with everybody.

Please answer this question:
Suppose, you walk with your boyfriend down a street and suddenly an attractive guy coming towards you touches you somewhere he is not really supposed to have the right to touch. Than he starts laughing at you in front of your boyfriend. You boyfriend calls the police. Is this situation all right for you? Will you be satisfied with the punishment the attractive rowdy got?

Thank you

[Guest]

LOL!!!!!

 

What WAS all that nonsense?

 

Come now, Berj, let's be a little sensible. Could you find nothing else to argue against in my post but that statement from the bible? Well, my friend, if you don't like me quoting the bible, may I quote Sting? Surely you can have no objection to that?.."don't judge me, you might be me in another life, in another set of circumstances" (taken from a song by Sting on his latest album-a better day-)..See, I even included references!!..lol

 

I apologize for the sarcasm with which I'm treating your thoughts, but you left me with no choice.

 

With regards to the use of the name Cleopatra, I consider Cleopatra a strong woman first, everything else second. Hence my admiration for her.

 

And as for your little scenario, my first reaction was to say I will not stoop so low as to respond to that base and condescending accusation. However, I realize that THAT is the level at which you function, so I'll address it. It's very simple: that would never happen. Whatever else I may do, I do not, repeat DO NOT cheat or in any way disrespect my man. Therefore, no other man would ever touch me. Get it? Got it? Good.

 

g.s.

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Berj:

Ay kezi baaaan! I was so amazed that even forgot to print my thoughts before posting them.

A fished out fragment of Bible adjusted to the situation and then adieu...

Stop making those biblical statments. Bible is not a super-market where you can buy goods for stuffing your stomac. It's a universal idea!!! to be achieved by constant sacrifice. You know whom I believe, I believe St. Hripsime, St. Gayane who sacrificed their lifes not to obey the pagan king's demands. I believe thousands of Armenian girls and women who threw themselves from rocks not to be raped by the Turks and Kurds. They had their truth. You have your truth. Die for you truth and everybody will believe you. Because only the person who perishes for his truth must be given credit.

Do I know you, yes sure, you're CLEOPAAAAATRA, a woman who provoced war between everybody to sleep with everybody.

 

Please answer this question:

Suppose, you walk with your boyfriend down a street and suddenly an attractive guy coming towards you touches you somewhere he is not really supposed to have the right to touch. Than he starts laughing at you in front of your boyfriend. You boyfriend calls the police. Is this situation all right for you? Will you be satisfied with the punishment the attractive rowdy got?

 

Thank you

 

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