Eire Posted July 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) so how is supporting universal health care, supporting higher taxes in AMERICA, supporting religion-less state, supporting minority rights, etc etc equate selling our own people, ARMENIANS? Take a look at the canadian health care system and then get back to me. I support a partially public health care. Also, the universal health care systems in the western (free) world are only functioning (relatively) properly due to the fact that they are supported by a free-market economy. Higher taxes in America? I think you need to study economics a bit more before. Higher taxes hurt businesses who in the end hurt the individual. Also, why would you want someone to tell you what to do with the money you worked hard for? Religion-less state? Go look at the British multicultural religion less (islamic) state. You clearly have no idea about what is going on in the world due to multiculturalism. Supporting minority rights or the oppression of majority rights? United Negro fund, united hispanic fund, affirmative action... to name a few. Where is white history month? or united white college fund? Or is that just more white racism? All of the above are ideas that will only drain Armenia, as it has in the past. How long will it take for you blissful baboons to understand the errors of the past? Should we give socialism another 100 years to prove itself right? The worldwide death toll for socialism is at over 100 000 000. Should we give it more time to double? Read a book. (I'll suggest the Black Book of communism by Stephane Courtois) Aroun ou Badiv Eire Edited July 19, 2009 by Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 I have read The Constitution of Liberty some time back. You are too naive to understand why i vote democratic. There is not conservative blood flowing thru my veins there is compassionate blood flowing thru them... You may think that it is diaspora supporting Armenia but you could not be more wrong. These days Diaspora is a small part. they dont have to keep kissing our asses for ages because diaspora stood by Armenia in its weakest days. they already thanked us and invited us to visit and stay. as for Reagen being a fine guy I'm glad you like him. because for the next 30-40 years you will continue to pay taxes for his and Bushes mistakes. Enjoy That's an impressive statement. You've managed to associate leftist thought to compassion? Where have I heard that one before? How about you research the death toll of all states in which socialism was applied. While your at it, please find me a single properly functioning socialist state. Hell just look at Armenia if you want. With the new arrival of capitalism (not that I am a capitalist) the country is booming. I'm not asking for them to kiss our asses and I'm not talking as an outsider. I'm saying my blood makes me who I am, weather you choose to believe it or not. It's cute how the second there is the slightest fault with capitalism, the left is quick to rejoice. Markets fluctuate. This time was much worse due to people getting loans they couldn't pay (I'll let you guess who those people where ) and some people at the top were horrendously corrupt. It was a grave mistake, that is true. But I bet you wouldn't move for anything in the world. If not, your always welcome to move to the socialist workers paradise that is Cuba. People that think like you do should be as far away from Armenia as possible, or you'll end up plunging us back into the Soviet Era. Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 That's an impressive statement. You've managed to associate leftist thought to compassion? Where have I heard that one before? How about you research the death toll of all states in which socialism was applied. While your at it, please find me a single properly functioning socialist state. Hell just look at Armenia if you want. With the new arrival of capitalism (not that I am a capitalist) the country is booming. I'm not asking for them to kiss our asses and I'm not talking as an outsider. I'm saying my blood makes me who I am, weather you choose to believe it or not. It's cute how the second there is the slightest fault with capitalism, the left is quick to rejoice. Markets fluctuate. This time was much worse due to people getting loans they couldn't pay (I'll let you guess who those people where ) and some people at the top were horrendously corrupt. It was a grave mistake, that is true. But I bet you wouldn't move for anything in the world. If not, your always welcome to move to the socialist workers paradise that is Cuba. People that think like you do should be as far away from Armenia as possible, or you'll end up plunging us back into the Soviet Era. Aroun ou Badiv Eire Dumb *** I was talking about myself and not the left or the right. but you are too much of a raciest moron to understand. Few days back you were talking about going back to your homeland Armenia. go. who the *** is holding you back. what? you are not ready? why? or you are just full of shit and all talk but never plan to go? I thought so... *** off and go crawl under the rock where you came from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Take a look at the canadian health care system and then get back to me. I support a partially public health care. Also, the universal health care systems in the western (free) world are only functioning (relatively) properly due to the fact that they are supported by a free-market economy. how does this equate selling out armenians? Higher taxes in America? I think you need to study economics a bit more before. Higher taxes hurt businesses who in the end hurt the individual. Also, why would you want someone to tell you what to do with the money you worked hard for? how does this equate selling out armenians? Religion-less state? Go look at the British multicultural religion less (islamic) state. You clearly have no idea about what is going on in the world due to multiculturalism. how does this equate selling out armenians? Supporting minority rights or the oppression of majority rights? United Negro fund, united hispanic fund, affirmative action... to name a few. Where is white history month? or united white college fund? Or is that just more white racism? how does this equate selling out armenians? All of the above are ideas that will only drain Armenia, as it has in the past. How long will it take for you blissful baboons to understand the errors of the past? Should we give socialism another 100 years to prove itself right? The worldwide death toll for socialism is at over 100 000 000. Should we give it more time to double? Read a book. (I'll suggest the Black Book of communism by Stephane Courtois) Aroun ou Badiv Eire you failed to show how you came to that conclusion... and my original question remained unanswered... how does supporting left-wing political factions in the west equate selling out armenians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Gentlemen, this kid just discovered that socialism has been the most bloodthirsty, freedom depriving, wealth destroying system of the 20th century. We all know that, it's a matter of public record. But as a Don Quijote he sees socialists or communists in everyone that doesn't say Heil Eire. Don't bother with this aspirant to resident clown (we have seen a fair share come and go...). It is true that sometimes they provide some entertainment, but in order to do that some intelligence is necessary. That seems to be lacking in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Gentlemen, this kid just discovered that socialism has been the most bloodthirsty, freedom depriving, wealth destroying system of the 20th century. We all know that, it's a matter of public record. But as a Don Quijote he sees socialists or communists in everyone that doesn't say Heil Eire. Don't bother with this aspirant to resident clown (we have seen a fair share come and go...). It is true that sometimes they provide some entertainment, but in order to do that some intelligence is necessary. That seems to be lacking in this case. I suggest you do some research as to just what Eire is and means before you spew your ignorant rhetoric. It's never wise to underestimate or attempt to humiliate people you dont even know. I will not play your childish games and respect you none the less. have a good one Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Dumb *** I was talking about myself and not the left or the right. but you are too much of a raciest moron to understand. Few days back you were talking about going back to your homeland Armenia. go. who the *** is holding you back. what? you are not ready? why? or you are just full of shit and all talk but never plan to go? I thought so... *** off and go crawl under the rock where you came from Don't speak like a Turk. You have no idea who I am nor my level of commitment in Armenia or outside of it. Your insulting posts are merely a reflection of your own lack of intelligence. Good day and good luck Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 how does this equate selling out armenians? how does this equate selling out armenians? how does this equate selling out armenians? how does this equate selling out armenians? you failed to show how you came to that conclusion... and my original question remained unanswered... how does supporting left-wing political factions in the west equate selling out armenians? Allow me to explain Harout jan If a majority, if even a large proportion of foreign born and living Armenians support these corrupt institutions, it reflects a dangerous set of ideas that can be transferred to the fatherland. It is a well known fact that the 11th red Army that ended our first republic was aided by Armenians. Also, under the socialist dashnaks, the first republic was an economic failure. im not solely blaming this on dashnagtsoutioun, it was right after genocide and war after all, but the party in power has alot of fault on its shoulders. partisan civil wars, like that of the Dashnaks and Hnchags in lebanon, assassination of politicians and so on. is it ever justifiable to draw blood from your brother? The point I am trying to make is the left has failed, and we cant let their errors stop us from surviving as a nation, because right now our people are dying. Take a look around you. Our men and women marry arabs and blacks. Our children are on drugs and join gangs. Our people have no more faith or pride. This ends now. Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 The point I am trying to make is the left has failed, and we cant let their errors stop us from surviving as a nation, because right now our people are dying. Take a look around you. Our men and women marry arabs and blacks. Our children are on drugs and join gangs. Our people have no more faith or pride. Aroun ou Badiv Eire HEIL EIRE! Let's hope he learns to spell while in school remediation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 HEIL EIRE! Let's hope he learns to spell while in school remediation. Your a poor and weak man. Your generation of passionless men will soon die, and then we can start again. Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Eire, are you ready tomorow to pack your bags go to Artsakh and do your service on the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 i advise new member (s) of this forum to read! and remember the code of conduct. or you'll be banned, again, and again... tell me how many times did we banned you from here? behave, please...........i said please, and i wont repeat it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Eire, are you ready tomorow to pack your bags go to Artsakh and do your service on the line? Thats a question I cannot answer unless faced with the situation. If you had read my post properly, you would have understood that Im not urging everyone to just pack up and leave. Im merely pointing out that our loyalties should not lie with the countries we now live in, but with the country we now left. I have seen fights between armenians just because some lipanahye made some comment about bolsahyes, and so on. I feel our association with these countries only further causes division amongst my people and that is something we can no longer afford. Aroun ou badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 i advise new member (s) of this forum to read! and remember the code of conduct. or you'll be banned, again, and again... tell me how many times did we banned you from here? behave, please...........i said please, and i wont repeat it again. I have never lacked respect to any member on this forum, nor have I ever been banned before. Your comment to me clearly shows your own bias and that you are unable to stand up to your forum friends, who are actually behind the degeneration of this debate. Good day Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Iv seen the garbage posted on this site. Embracing muslims and jews as Armenian? clapping at more left-wing promises that were never kept. Some of the people that post here would gladly sell their own people. just what pride are you referring to here? Aroun ou Badiv Eire Hye Hye e !!! yete iharke Hye e tsvel, HAyeren xosel kam haskanal@ Hye chi darstnum mekin, isk te musulman e kam hrya da arden kap chuini, Hye Mnum e Hye ankax n@ra kronakan patkaneliutyan !!! Ankax nra Tsnndavayri !!! ANkax nra Qaghaqakan Hakmuneri !!! avel pakas durs mi tur / yev xorhurd qez heteveyir ED'i xosqerin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 As for Armenia... its none of your effing business(nor mine) how they run the country. When you or I or anyone gets off their asses and moves back than we have the right to criticize. But until that time we have no say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 ... Armenia relys heavily on diasporan investment, I believe that gives us as much right as them to have a say in what goes on in OUR country. Wrong. We'd all like to believe that to console the fact that we get to live luxurious lives, far different lives from the average Armenians, while at the same time crying "Hayastan, Hayastan". None of us has any clue what life is like in Armenia, therefore we have no right to dictate, vote, and voice our opinions, about how the country should be run. This doesn't mean I love my Armenian identity less than you do. YOUR country? In which country do you live? In which country do you work? In which country do you eat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Im merely pointing out that our loyalties should not lie with the countries we now live in, but with the country we now left. Aroun ou badiv Eire Any country that gave you a place and a shelter to live under, opportunity to work and earn a honourable living, deserves to be loyal to, at least that is what you can do in return. Someone who fails to do that will fail their Homeland also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hye Hye e !!! yete iharke Hye e tsvel, HAyeren xosel kam haskanal@ Hye chi darstnum mekin, isk te musulman e kam hrya da arden kap chuini, Hye Mnum e Hye ankax n@ra kronakan patkaneliutyan !!! Ankax nra Tsnndavayri !!! ANkax nra Qaghaqakan Hakmuneri !!! avel pakas durs mi tur / yev xorhurd qez heteveyir ED'i xosqerin Movses Jan What makes us Armenian is our blood. but being muslim or jewish, or any other faith (besides pagan) is a betrayal to your own people. Think about it. Our people were put to the sword because of our christian faith. While invaded by our Mohamedan tormentors, our christianity only doubled our efforts to remain distinct and alive. The church and clergy has kept our language and customs alive. Islam itself is a DEEPLY flawed religion and their distorted faith has already taken a massive toll on Christian Europe. Our western life style is in danger of disappearing and I will not discuss this here, but you may take a look for yourself if you want. There is plenty of available information on the Islamification of Europe, and about the incredibly high crime rates of the islamic community, their barracks-turned mosques, and the rape of non-veiled white women. Adopting Islam means adopting an oriental life-style (prayers in arabic as an example) while our traditions and culture are European. As for being Jewish. the mentality they have is that if you are a jew, your loyalties lie with Judea. I have seen this personally with my half-italian half jewish friends, half french half jewish, and even half Armenian half jewish. We are two ancient peoples who have our own causes to further and mixing both would not be a good idea. let us be true to our ancestors and not foreign ones. Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Any country that gave you a place and a shelter to live under, opportunity to work and earn a honourable living, deserves to be loyal to, at least that is what you can do in return. Someone who fails to do that will fail their Homeland also. I agree with you there. but what happens when that country becomes yours? I know many pure armenians who now call themselves syrians or lebanese. Il tell you a story yervant Jan, king of the Bearia My uncle is the son of a genocide survivor (my grandfather) and so is his wife. while my parents were away they took me to dinner with them The whole way they speak arabic to each other. They listen to arabic radio and my aunt knows all the words to every single song. We discuss college and what I plan to do later on and I tell them about my goal of doing a year or two in Armenia and then probably going into politics there. My aunt immediately starts blabbing on about how crazy we are, me and my brother for wanting such things. According to her "they (emphasis on the word THEY) are all lazy, corrupt and ignorant (bla bla bla)" What struck me is the word they. To her, these were foreigners, not her own blood, not her people. We went to supper at Ruby's. A lebanese restaurant owned by armenians. The restaurant plays armenian and arabic music on the radio. My uncle leans in to me and says in french "tu vois, toute la musique des arméniens est triste!" (meaning all armenian music is sad) He then goes on to making some weird whiny voice to imitate the singer. Again, note the "the Armenians" and not "we", making it seem like they are a separate people and not his own kin. The arabic music goes on, all I hear is a relieved gasp from my aunt "finally!" she says. I personally know many Armenians who are pure-blooded and refer to themselves as lebanese or Syrian. Id understand Canada or France or the States but Lebanon and Syria? Those countries didnt open their arms to us, they took the genocide survivors and turned them into slaves, making them clean their houses, dont pretend that those people are saints. Even at that, does it make sense to go for example and open a "bolsahye mioutioun" wherever you settle in the west? If youv left bolis, you are no longer bolsahye... Im saying we should put the emphasis on the HYE and not what comes before it. Its the number of the bus you should remember, not the bus stop. Everything else creates division. Aroun ou Badiv old friend Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Wrong. We'd all like to believe that to console the fact that we get to live luxurious lives, far different lives from the average Armenians, while at the same time crying "Hayastan, Hayastan". None of us has any clue what life is like in Armenia, therefore we have no right to dictate, vote, and voice our opinions, about how the country should be run. This doesn't mean I love my Armenian identity less than you do. YOUR country? In which country do you live? In which country do you work? In which country do you eat? once again I will not detail my involvement with Armenia because it is frankly none of your business. I am not saying they are our children and we should tell them what to do and what not to do. Im not saying we should look down on them. Im sure that we agree on that. I am saying tho that we are gone, not by choice. And we still have the right to want a better future for the lands we left behind. Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 In my view, we are miles away from having solid rightwing party in Armenia for the simple reason that capitalism is still not very well ingrained in people's minds. What is more important and the first step towards building a better society is having a democratic political process in place. In other words having the type of political dialog between the political parties that will allow the ruling party does her job and the opposition to do what they have to do to point out the wrongs and to wait for their chance to get in the ranks. The lack of such dialog is something that is omnipresent in all post-communist countries. Simply there is no political culture of a dialog, since before it was one-party system. This would be the ultimate test of Armenian democracy. Unfortunately, Diaspora organizations instead of helping Armenian authorities build such dialog are trying to reshape these delicate relationships in their political favor. Forgetting that Ignoring the opponent is not the best tactic available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 In my view, we are miles away from having solid rightwing party in Armenia for the simple reason that capitalism is still not very well ingrained in people's minds. What is more important and the first step towards building a better society is having a democratic political process in place. In other words having the type of political dialog between the political parties that will allow the ruling party does her job and the opposition to do what they have to do to point out the wrongs and to wait for their chance to get in the ranks. The lack of such dialog is something that is omnipresent in all post-communist countries. Simply there is no political culture of a dialog, since before it was one-party system. This would be the ultimate test of Armenian democracy. Unfortunately, Diaspora organizations instead of helping Armenian authorities build such dialog are trying to reshape these delicate relationships in their political favor. Forgetting that Ignoring the opponent is not the best tactic available. Well said Gamavor. Altho I personally wouldnt favor a strictly capitalist system for Armenia, simply because it is too selfish in nature. In my head I would see a form of Nationalist capitalism, one that doesnt forget the people. Maybe Im just a dreamer eh? Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Movses Jan What makes us Armenian is our blood. but being muslim or jewish, or any other faith (besides pagan) is a betrayal to your own people. Think about it. Our people were put to the sword because of our christian faith. While invaded by our Mohamedan tormentors, our christianity only doubled our efforts to remain distinct and alive. The church and clergy has kept our language and customs alive. Islam itself is a DEEPLY flawed religion and their distorted faith has already taken a massive toll on Christian Europe. Our western life style is in danger of disappearing and I will not discuss this here, but you may take a look for yourself if you want. There is plenty of available information on the Islamification of Europe, and about the incredibly high crime rates of the islamic community, their barracks-turned mosques, and the rape of non-veiled white women. Adopting Islam means adopting an oriental life-style (prayers in arabic as an example) while our traditions and culture are European. As for being Jewish. the mentality they have is that if you are a jew, your loyalties lie with Judea. I have seen this personally with my half-italian half jewish friends, half french half jewish, and even half Armenian half jewish. We are two ancient peoples who have our own causes to further and mixing both would not be a good idea. let us be true to our ancestors and not foreign ones. Aroun ou Badiv Eire but being Muslim or Jewish, or any other faith (besides pagan) is a betrayal to your own people. at one point in my life I had the same idea, that was wrong !!! i will not go to farrrr, only 20 years .. no Arian has ever questioned our Armenian Origins, our religion , ever !!!! not in Artsax not in Yerasxavan, not in Noyemberyan, no one told us that your not Armenian enough, you stay home, your catholic or 50Akan, your boghqakana or Araqenalakn, your not an Armenian stay out of Armenia, during the war in Artsax we Christians did not stand back and let the 60 man strong Hethanos's to liberate OUR Artsax alll by themselves did we ?? did we live you all by your self ?? i only rimember that all of us was fighting for one nation and liberetion of our Artsax... what happened ? let your propoganda aside, no one is buying it, no one need's it, your duing mor harm than you can ever do any good... you can't deprive ones Nationality from him /her all because of the religion or political orientation .... question for you: war you born pagan or did you just become one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eire Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 but being Muslim or Jewish, or any other faith (besides pagan) is a betrayal to your own people. at one point in my life I had the same idea, that was wrong !!! i will not go to farrrr, only 20 years .. no Arian has ever questioned our Armenian Origins, our religion , ever !!!! not in Artsax not in Yerasxavan, not in Noyemberyan, no one told us that your not Armenian enough, you stay home, your catholic or 50Akan, your boghqakana or Araqenalakn, your not an Armenian stay out of Armenia, during the war in Artsax we Christians did not stand back and let the 60 man strong Hethanos's to liberate OUR Artsax alll by themselves did we ?? did we live you all by your self ?? i only rimember that all of us was fighting for one nation and liberetion of our Artsax... what happened ? let your propoganda aside, no one is buying it, no one need's it, your duing mor harm than you can ever do any good... you can't deprive ones Nationality from him /her all because of the religion or political orientation .... question for you: war you born pagan or did you just become one ? Movses Jan I am catholic... not a pagan haha. I said I would accept armenian pagans because it is a part of our heritage. As for muslims. I suggest you go on www.thereligionofpeace.com and see for yourself. Everywhere a muslim community settles, they are followed by heavy problems, simply because they do not integrate. Talk to me about Artsakh. Iv been to Stepanakert and Shushi. Remember who we were fighting with, true, but also remember who we were fighting against, and who came to their muslims "brothers" aide. These middle eastern ideas are foreign and they are not a part of who we are. If to you, wanting a multicultural experiment in armenia is your idea of a bright future then you are as short-sighted as your leftist counterparts. Aroun ou Badiv Eire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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