Ashot Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 For the administrators - Arpa jan, I couldn't find the right topic to post this in, in the fast paste life that we have, I just couldn't put the appropriate amount of time to search for the topic, I know this topic has already been covered! Anyways - for the past so long I am have been trying to figure out few things - the divorce rates, here is the world table of the divorce rates! http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/Nitajk/divorcerate1_1_1.jpg http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/Nitajk/Divorcerate2_2_1.jpg http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/Nitajk/Divorcerate3_3_1.jpg Funny thing - India hits rank 1 with as low as 1.1 percent divorce rate, Armenia hits 6-7 rank along with Furkey with as low as 6 percent divorce rate... OH MYYYY LOOK AT THE US - RANK 45 with 54.4 percent, that's almost the last one, next to Sweden we don't know much about - but let's take into consideration the US, why is there so many divorces? what is the problem with the society - this can lead to a huge problem... I knew the divorce rate in US is high, but not this high... people tell me to get married, what are my chances here in the US? there you have it - 54.4 percent chance that I will divorce - and you guys wonder why guys fly over to Armenia to get married? sure sometimes they make mistakes but not most of the times... this suck, with the rate that this thing is going I might not even get married at all - oh well... Mos jan yerpenq gnum Erevan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) The main cause for divorce is marriage. Just as the main cause of death is birth. Edited November 30, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted November 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 just like being funny is from being sad - yes Arpa jan, I get the point, maybe I should consider staying divorced and enjoying the single life with the ladies, but then again I want to have kids and a family of my own... what do you suggest? why is the rate of divorce so high? One can only say if the death rate is high then there is war that causes lower economy and lower population happiness, which may lead to a higher rate of deaths, other then that the death rate should not be so high, almost same applies to the birth rate, if the population is happy and economy is high then the birth rate increases... which by the way does not apply to the marriage and divorce rates... There must be something bigger that causes it, but what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) My apologies for making light of the subject. I coud not resist. Yet, when you look at the stats, you will see that the more sophisticated and educated the society, the higher rate of divorce. India 1.1(? I doubt it, as there may be a variation of definition, just as in the Muslim society all one has to say "I divorce thee/alayi talaq" three times and it becomes legal), or if we recite it in the qoranic and biblical language, recited by the male partner- "i-eth divorce-th thou-est" make it any more legal? US 54.8, 500 % higher.Is it because in places like India "divorce" is synonumous to "spousal murder" and acid disfiguration? Is it because, as the "fairer gender (ladies) get more educated and sophisticated, attain an equal or higher status than the male population the sense of supremacy collides, i.e I can live, provide without your "male ego"? Edited November 30, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 It cant be just education Arpa jan. Armenian women in general are very educated. Forget Armenia, Japanese society and women are very educated yet the divorce rate is lower... There are many pressures from society that force marriages to last(even if conditions are not ideal) in many countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted November 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 so basically it all comes to the same thing as our parents have been ripping their vocal cords out - IF YOU GET MARRIED MAKE SURE THE GIRL IS AT LEAST 4 YEARS YOUNGER THEN YOU ARE... this way no matter how much sophisticated and educated the girl gets, the male is still staying challenging, therefore there are more interests in him rather then no challenge... this means women like controlling and smarter partners and once this is softened they just simply loose their interests... No my dear Armenians I don't mean most of you, I mean most of the US, however some of it might still apply to our Armenian ladies. Interesting enough to see that in Armenia a 6 percent divorce rate is kept for a long while, not much of an increase since very long ago. However the divorce rate between Armenians in the US is very high probably 1 out of every 4 couples that get married do divorce in the early stages of marriage, not to count the other 25% after few years. As an Armenian and a minority in this God forgotten lands of the US, what do you guys think should be done to teach our children to put them on the right track. Well, it's too soon to come to the children, how about something fast to be done for this new generation of 14-22 years girls and boys that are on the path of getting married... something has to be done and has to be done fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) I agree with Azat. Best solution is: either don't get married or live in a society where polygamy and (temporary) separation are acceptable. Eternal monogamy is not natural for most people. Edited November 30, 2008 by nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted November 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 I agree with Azat. Best solution is: either don't get married or live in a society where polygamy and (temporary) separation are acceptable. Eternal monogamy is not natural for most people. So what you are suggesting is if "you don't find the answer to your question you just change the subject?" Every society plays a major role in the community, so why can't we have the societies to make sure that everything goes well, instead of thinking for their pockets only, let them think how they can make better surrounding community... A very good example would be Roman Abramovich - bravor to the guy!!! In 1999, Abramovich was elected to the State Duma as the representative for the Chukotka Autonomous Okrug, an impoverished region in the Russian Far East. He started the charity Pole of Hope to help the people of Chukotka, especially children, and in December 2000 was elected governor of Chukotka, replacing Alexander Nazarov. Abramovich was the governor of Chukotka from 2000 to 2008. It has been estimated that he spent over $1.3 billion of his own money on the region, which now has one of the highest birth rates in Russia. Under Abramovich, living standards improved, schools and housing were restored and new investors were being drawn to the region. Russian President Vladimir Putin changed the law to abolish elections for regional governors, and on 21 October 2005 Abramovich was reappointed governor for another term. Abramovich was awarded the Order of Honor for his "huge contribution to the economic development of the autonomous district of Chukotka", by a decree signed by the President of Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Why is divorce a "problem"? I definitely agree with Arpa as it seems like divorce is the solution to the "problem" which is actually caused by marriage. As it turns out, marriage is an inherently flawed concept when gender equality becomes more the norm. From the list, you can see clearly that countries which favor the traditional gender roles have much much lower divorce rates so divorce is not the problem. The problem is forcing a woman to be stuck with a man and vice versa for the rest of their lives, without forcing them to have to live together due to enforced gender roles. Edited December 1, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 "Դու ասում ես՝ սիրիր Ու կազմիր ընտանիք, Բայց ես չեմ ուզում դառնալ Մի կնոջ խաղալիք։" R.H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted December 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 The problem is forcing a woman to be stuck with a man and vice versa for the rest of their lives, without forcing them to have to live together due to enforced gender roles. and just how many couples have you seen in the US to be involved in a forced marriages? Sip jan - US has almost 55 percent divorce rate - Armenia has 6 percent - so forced marriages work better! the problem in US is not the forced marriages, it's beyond that - let's think again on what the problem is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 US has almost 55 percent divorce rate - Armenia has 6 percent - so forced marriages work better! What do you mean by "work"? Do mean people staying together? Isn't that just by definition when you say "forced marriage"? Yah I have no doubt forcing people to stay together will reduce divorce rates. Actually, if you make divorce illegal, marriage "success" rates will shoot up to 100% !!!!!! It's just a different philosophy on marriage ... in the US, it's not a dead-end (literally) contract that two people sign. There is a way out and a LOT of people chose that instead of sticking with the alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 the problem in US is not the forced marriages, it's beyond that - let's think again on what the problem is! Once again, you use the word "problem". What do you see as "problem"? I still don't understand what you consider as the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted December 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 the divorce problem - unless you consider the divorce being something normal... Think of the children that stay without a father or mother, it does mentally affect them. Yes it is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) One again, I think divorce is the SOLUTION to the problem. The problem is marriage as Arpa said and I definitely agree with him. So let's talk about what we can do about the "marriage" problem. Why are girls still raised to dream about fancy weddings and spend most of their life worrying about which guy is going to want to marry them? Why not for example consider a "child-producing union" which will last at least till the child is of a certain age instead of a "till death" marriage? Actually "monogamy" is quite unnatural. I am no expert but there are very very few species that are monogamous and far less that mate for life. We have somehow forced ourselves to be into this unnatural category which is what is clearly illustrated by high divorce rates in societies where people are free (more free) to pursue their personal happinesses. Edited December 1, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) and just how many couples have you seen in the US to be involved in a forced marriages? Sip jan - US has almost 55 percent divorce rate - Armenia has 6 percent - so forced marriages work better! the problem in US is not the forced marriages, it's beyond that - let's think again on what the problem is! Weeeeeeelllllllllll ... I don't know how accurate that 6% is really. For instance, (from what I've heard) in Armenia it's very common for people to separate and not file for divorce (it's just a waste of money). Also, there are couples who form a family (without getting legally married) ... thus their parting of ways would not be reflected in that divorce rate either. Aaaaaaaaaaand ... most importantly, some women (in Armenia) who are financially dependent on their husbands are more likely to stay in an "unhappy" marriage than risk losing their fancy lifestyle. ---------------------- Regardless of how you view divorce - as a problem or solution, I think we will all agree that social views and economics play crucial roles in determining rates of divorce. Low divorce rates DO NOT translate to high rates of successful marriage. Edited December 1, 2008 by Nané Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmag Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) My two cents worth of theory re: divorce rates in the west... I have on previous occasion alluded to the fact that the breakup of families was an orchestrated plan to create consumers... The production lines were coming to a halt in the 60s as the market was saturated with consumer goods...with no prospective buyers in sight! The suburban sprawls around cities were totally saturated with goods! One upmenships amongst the neighbours had aided for this saturation... BUY NOW PAY LATER WAS ALSO A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR! The corporate America needed new consumers... Hollywood was the instigating vehicle, via half hour TV programs, that displayed a new approach to the pillow games! Brady bunch is a good example, the new formed family was the result of two breakups! As usual everything found perfect solutions within the half hour of this hollywoodian scenarios... Hey we can also break up and form a new family... became a wished goal, specifically amongst all the couples where passion had dissappeared from the heart and home. As if by coincidence... the feminist emencipaton was also prominently playing a part in pressuring women to question their roles as homemakers IN THE EARLY SEVENTIES. Mind you the propaganda was at it's height, brain washing the women about the so called exploitation of the females/mothers... by the males!!!!! The attack on the families bore fruits... the divorce rates went through the roof in the late seventies in the west, and the production lines were back in business... Today the burden on our fairfolks is greater then ever! They must now juggle a career as well as home life...an impossible task! No wonder the pressures eventually drive a nail through the marriage/union... and soon enough the bubble bursts... The poor offspring become either ping pongs or ward of state! Indeed a very sad state of affairs! Therefore, I say, Yes get your own family and if it's "kismet" you will be luckiest being on earth...IF NOT ,TRY AGAIN IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS! Edited December 1, 2008 by garmag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Iy Jopghovurd jan inch eq g@luxnert tsavatsnum mi bani mej el togh arajin 10it's mek@ ch@linenq hima enqan eq aselu or AchQov taq / yekogh tary #1 linenq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Iy Jopghovurd jan inch eq g@luxnert tsavatsnum mi bani mej el togh arajin 10it's mek@ ch@linenq hima enqan eq aselu or AchQov taq / yekogh tary #1 linenq Aysinqn divorce-i tokos@ ijni Hayastanum? Da aydqan el sarsapeli che Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 voch hakarak@ Bartsrana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 the divorce problem - unless you consider the divorce being something normal... The Wikipedia article says that "wives file for divorce in approximately two-thirds of cases". I think there's your answer. Most women want to get married and have their own family. But as Arpa stated, you can see how divorce rates are higher in the developed societies. I think universally most men are still spoiled and feel that they are entitled to order women around. What does it say then about the institution of marriage? I'm not saying that this applies in all failed marriages, but in the majority of failed marriages something is happening where the women find themselves taken for granted and feel unappreciated. A woman by nature is a caregiver. Read Chekhov's "Darling" where he brilliantly shows that fact. But a woman also has a breaking point. And if a developed society encourages a woman to be independent and don't take crap from anyone, then of course she's going to want to end her bad marriage rather than sacrifice her happiness and stay in the marriage. In Armenia, however, the culture does not encourage such freedom for women yet. And therefore you see that educated women are still staying in bad marriages and being taken for granted. But from my experience looking at relatives I'd say that "highly educated" women are divorced, even in Armenia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted December 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) In Armenia, however, the culture does not encourage such freedom for women yet. And therefore you see that educated women are still staying in bad marriages and being taken for granted. But from my experience looking at relatives I'd say that "highly educated" women are divorced, even in Armenia. So basically if the woman is smarter then the man then it's a divorce... Here we go again - es you girls are smart and highly educated, why can't you educate your men the way you want to? That should not be a big deal - but no, it's the freedom, hey I can divorce and re marry then do whatever the heck I want to do... Please do understand me right, I am not talking about the minorities, I am talking about the overall population in the world, there are people that might get offended, but please do not, as this has nothing to do with you, there are different instances and different cases, the majority of the cases do not apply to you! Edited December 2, 2008 by Ashot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Once again, you use the word "problem". What do you see as "problem"? I still don't understand what you consider as the problem. I agree with Sip, theoretically divorce is the solution and the only exit door in an unhappy marriage, however, the process is so complicated, bureaucratic and emotionally challenging that it becomes a problem, especially when there are children present…and the society looks at it as a problem which makes things more complicated… if i was a child and i was asked, i would choose my parents to separate and live their lives, than carry the burden that they sacrificed their lives to keep the family structure for me... And the answer to Ashot's question to why the divorce rates are so high in US is because people have the freedom to use the available exit door... and why are the rates so low in Armenia can be found in Nane's post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 So basically if the woman is smarter then the man then it's a divorce... No, I didn't say that. It's simply that if a woman is well-read and knowledgeable then she'll recognize that she wants more out of life than what her marriage has to offer. But whereas the men stubbornly led the lives they wanted while at the same time enjoying the benefits of marriage, now women are starting to put an end to that by divorcing. Here we go again - es you girls are smart and highly educated, why can't you educate your men the way you want to? That should not be a big deal - but no, it's the freedom, hey I can divorce and re marry then do whatever the heck I want to do... Good point No, joking aside, the easier answer is that people don't change. One of my students' mom divorced when her child was only two. She said that when she married she recognized too late that her ex was still leading the bachelor life and didn't wish to settle down. She thought that having a child would change that but as life showed her, she was wrong. Now she's married again and just recently had a baby with her new husband. I agree with you here that it's only the children who suffer (there is a seven year difference between her children). Now my student spends one week with her dad and one week with her mom and stepfather. I don't even want to imagine the life she is living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 FIVE RULES FOR MEN TO FOLLOW TO A HAPPY LIFE: by Ashot, Sip, Azat, Harout, 1. It's important to have a woman, who helps at home, who cooks from time to time, cleans up and has a job. 2. It's important to have a woman, who can make you laugh. 3. It's important to have a woman, who you can trust and who doesn't lie to you. 4. It's important to have a woman, who is good in bed and who likes to be with you. 5. It's very, very important that these four women do not know each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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