History Course Proposal Upsets Canadian Turks

[Yervant1]

Apris Aris!!

I know he works very hard.

[DominO123]

Babikian misunderstood Talaat dairy, those are the figures of those moved from Anatolia. Those figures were particularly interesting because they show that there were more Armenians in those villeyets than what the Ottoman statistics show. Talaat dairy also document that there must be somewhere traces of the original figures for internal consuption. But I think those were cleared from the archives.

[Z'areh]

Babikian misunderstood Talaat dairy, those are the figures of those moved from Anatolia. Those figures were particularly interesting because they show that there were more Armenians in those villeyets than what the Ottoman statistics show. Talaat dairy also document that there must be somewhere traces of the original figures for internal consuption. But I think those were cleared from the archives.

 

 

You make a couple of very good points DominO. Someone like Aris Babikian, who runs the ANC's Hye Tad office on Ottawa should not make such mistake, if in fact he did say "killed", PanArmenian might have gotten the story a bit wrong. secondly, the value of Talaat's references lies in not how many Armenians were killed or "removed" but the fact that the Ottoman leadership had such numbers in their possession, which contradicts today's Turkish official numbers. If in fact 925 000 people were removed and officially up to 5% of the Armenian population were allowed to stay at any given city or town (although this might not have been achieved due to the fact that the Turks/Kurds were more interested in killing rather than "hosting") combined with all those thousands that were Turkified, discredits the official Turkish numbers for Armenians, and these figures are specifically for Anatolia Armenians, what about the rest of the Empire?

 

 

On another note about Turkkaya Ataov. His lecture in McGill University was a complete disaster for this "professor". The McGill Student Association together with the Armen Karo student wing of the ANCC descended on him relentlessly and completely embarrassed him. Right at the start they stood up and held up a huge banner saying "Stop the denial of AG", which apparently through Ataov off, and then bombarded him with questions. First there were some noises from the Turkish attendees, but the session was completely dominated by the Armenian students. Ataov, seeing that no Turk was participating in the questions, was seen writing a question to himself and slipping it to a Turkish student. This backfired when the student could not read properly "his" own question. Ironically he stumbled on the word "Dashnaktsutioun" and could not ask the question properly with the Armenians in the hall laughing out loud.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Yervant1]

In my opinion Aris, is well prepared and researched and he was not discussing the numbers but discrediting Ataov that even their butcher tallat's number disagrees for giving an absurd number to the audience which is worthy of ridicule.

[Arpa]

In my opinion Aris, is well prepared and researched and he was not discussing the numbers but discrediting Ataov that even their butcher tallat's number disagrees for giving an absurd number to the audience which is worthy of ridicule.

We need more “ students” of “history” of the kind.

Note that above I emphasized “student” and “history“..

“Student” is one who studies, and “history” is a science, unlike the “mythology” that we have heard from our “non-student”, ie illiterate grandfathers. Times have changed, those illiterate furks who could not even write their own names are now speaking English and French.

Times have changed. Is it not time that we also change our “language”, like “was it, or was it not”?

The more we argue, the more we engage in semantics, as “was it, or was it not” the more we sink in the quagmire. The furks don’t deny that they have murdered upwards of a million or two Armenians. Who cares if it was a G** or not! Murder is “Most Foul” (Agatha Christie) no matter how, no matter when, no matter by who.

Let the record speak!!!!

**And now, they are catching us at our own word “Yeghern=disaster”. We have already spoken about the word that it in fact means “murder”. No US President has denied that it was a "massacre/disaster", you name it, yet we are wasting vaulable time and energy on that G word. Is it not time we change our "language"? Remember that the main cris de guerre against Saddam was that he had "murdered his own citizens", and he was hanged solely based on that.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Arpa

[Arpa]

In my opinion Aris, is well prepared and researched and he was not discussing the numbers but discrediting Ataov that even their butcher tallat's number disagrees for giving an absurd number to the audience which is worthy of ridicule.

Yes, Yervant, please repost ataov's vomitus in "Comedistan" so we can have some fun?

Is his name ata(furk) or (ivan)ov?

Edited February 23, 2009 by Arpa

[Yervant1]

Canadian Turks Should Condemn,
Not Condone, Genocide Denial

By Harut Sassounian
Publisher, The California Courier

Canadian Turks launched a petition last month seeking the removal of all
references to the Armenian Genocide from the 11th grade curriculum of
Toronto high schools.
This petition is a part of Turkish denialists' long-standing efforts to
reverse the Toronto District School Board's (TDSB) 2008 decision to educate
students about the Armenian, Jewish, and Rwandan genocides. TDSB's
action
follows the recognition of the Armenian Genocide by the Canadian Senate in
2002 and the House of Commons in 2004. In addition, since 2006, successive
Canadian Prime Ministers have issued official annual statements
acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, despite intensive political pressure
and economic blackmail by the Turkish government.
Back in 2008, a similar Turkish petition failed to sway TDSB to amend the
genocide curriculum, after gathering over 11,000 signatures, mostly from
Turkey. Indeed, the Ankara government and its Turkish proxies in Toronto
have done everything possible during the past seven years to undermine this
curriculum.
Below are the baseless claims made by the Turkish petition against TDSB's
genocide curriculum, followed by my rebuttal:
-- Turkish Petition: "As the Turkish/Turkic speaking parents of students
attending the Toronto District School Board, we are deeply concerned about
the negative impact of the current curriculum module on `Armenian Genocide'
and the learning resources adopted by the Board since 2008."
My response: There has been NO violence or intimidation against a single
Turkish student in Toronto schools even though the genocide curriculum has
been taught there for several years. The reason is that Armenians do not
hold today's Turks responsible for the crimes committed by the Government
of Ottoman Turkey almost 100 years ago, except those who associate
themselves with these crimes by their denial. The Republic of Turkey, on
the other hand, as successor to the Ottoman Empire, is responsible for the
continuing consequences of the Armenian Genocide. Denying the facts of the
Genocide has a far more serious negative psychological impact on Armenians
than its inclusion in the curriculum on Turks. Furthermore, the truth
cannot be concealed in order not to offend the sensibilities of those who
wish to cover up historical facts. Would anyone advocate erasing all
references to the Jewish Holocaust from history books not offend
present-day Germans?
-- Turkish Petition: "The textbook on the Genocide of the Armenians and
other readers, such as Barbara Coloroso's Extraordinary Evil, unremittingly
discredits one community's narrative over the other; and, adversely affects
the students of TDSB with Turkish and Turkic heritages."
My response: There cannot be two narratives or two versions of the proven
facts of the Armenian Genocide. There can only be one version -- the truth!
-- Turkish Petition: "We firmly believe that the values of mutual respect,
understanding and peaceful coexistence can be achieved through an honest
and open dialogue on history. Moreover, fair and unprejudiced learning
should be based on historical facts and not solely on the narratives of
select communities while ignoring others. It should also be noted that
there are no court decisions on any of these historical claims and the
opinions of historians differ regarding the details and the definitions of
these events."
My response: 'Mutual respect, understanding and peaceful coexistence'
cannot be achieved through distortions and lies. Only after acknowledging
the truth and making appropriate amends, Canadian Turks can talk about such
lofty ideals. Furthermore, contrary to the Turkish claims, there are
several court verdicts on the Armenian Genocide, starting with the Turkish
Military Tribunals of 1919, and judgments by Argentinean, Swiss, and U.S.
courts. Significantly, the UN Sub-Commission on Prevention of
Discrimination and Protection of Minorities adopted in 1985 a report
acknowledging the Armenian Genocide. The ultimate arbiter of any genocide
is the United Nations, since the Genocide Convention is a UN document.
To sum up, this latest Turkish petition is a total failure since its
initiator, the Federation of Canadian Turkish Associations, has so far
collected less than 2,000 signatures out of a claimed membership of 200,000
in Canada. Interestingly, most of the signatories are not from Canada, but
Turkey where the petition has been widely circulated.
A more worthwhile initiative for Canadian Turks would be to start a
petition urging the Turkish government to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide
and make proper restitution to the descendants of this heinous crime on the
occasion of the Genocide's Centennial.