_femme333_ Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 She should have stuck to this! She's great here and that voice is amazing! There's a big contrast between this and the above clips! http://youtube.com/watch?v=c4cmbFBouog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_femme333_ Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Another one of her songs that's much better than her recent stuff.....I call it the recent embarrassement. http://youtube.com/watch?v=28xzf4p6v20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_femme333_ Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 OK!!!!!!!! This should sum up everything I mentioned above! The outfit, the hair and the moves are just WRONG! I ahev a feeling that she definitely lost her mind after years of.......I can't believe that the performance is intended to be serious! I wouldn't be surprised if she .....before the performance because there's something not right about the whole performance. http://youtube.com/watch?v=d8CTrjsMUuE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 hagopn what do you think about jazz- man/women who perform old compositions. "Take Five" or "Summertime" or Jobim's "How Insensitive" etc. works have been played by many other performers. Do you still think they are copycats and clones (of Dave Brubeck or Paul Desmond)? Do you think other performers of those works don't deserve to be called jazz- men/women? I myself don't like plagiarism. But jazz is something different. I have always said that jazz is a form of folk tradition. Of course that is why the idea of a jazz standard comes along. I don't condemn the performance of original or standards. I just don't like the distasteful and often exaggerated desire to "jazzify" everything, and especially I don't respect those who first of all don't respect their own culture. I find the "Ella Fitzgeraldization" of Komitas to be a sign of disrespecte, not because I have disrespect for Ella, but because I see that those who choose to perform an Armenian folk tune in that style and improvise in that style. I don't ever feel anything Armenian as an element in DH's performances. I see her trying to COPY precisely the STYLE, the VOCAL TIMBRE, the INFLECTIONS, the PHRASING, everything that is Ella. In the re-interpretation of older standards and the delivery of original compositions, I expect an original and heartfelt performance. Otherwise, I don't see any point in paying hommage to a living recording of someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 OK!!!!!!!! This should sum up everything I mentioned above! The outfit, the hair and the moves are just WRONG! I ahev a feeling that she definitely lost her mind after years of.......I can't believe that the performance is intended to be serious! I wouldn't be surprised if she .....before the performance because there's something not right about the whole performance. http://youtube.com/watch?v=d8CTrjsMUuE LOL! - You are as opinionated as I am-- This is absolutely COOL-- Yeah, she was, God Bless her soul regardless, quite an embarassment, but I will stop there, because she was hit with one misfortune in life after another. Her personal character was a result of her difficult life. Her stage presence was equally the result of a difficult life. I will leave our dearly departed alone with only that much. May she finally rest in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) hagopn what do you think about jazz- man/women who perform old compositions. "Take Five" or "Summertime" or Jobim's "How Insensitive" etc. works have been played by many other performers. Do you still think they are copycats and clones (of Dave Brubeck or Paul Desmond)? Do you think other performers of those works don't deserve to be called jazz- men/women? I myself don't like plagiarism. But jazz is something different. And what do you think when in the sixties the Lisitsian sisters, yes, Pavel's daughters saw it it fit to represent American Music with Gershwin's Porgy and Bess' "Ive got plenty of nothing, nothing's plenty for me", and then proceeded to dance with the homeless drunken negro bum in the streets to show the world what "nigger" America was (I have a video of it). Paul Robeson, the "negro Russian" aside. Even if I am not a misician or a misicologit, you must assume that I don't know about music, if I don't know who Pambukji-oglhlu-ian or Katurji-oglhlu-ian are, and I couldn't care less. Don't assume that I don't know who Komitas, Bethoven, Mozart, Verdi, Khachaturian and Puccini are. Can those in Yerevan connect with the American majority of Anglos, Irish, Italian, Polish et al than the opressed minorities of negroes, the likes of Ela, chicanos and Armos? Edited November 13, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) LOL! - You are as opinionated as I am-- This is absolutely COOL-- Yeah, she was, God Bless her soul regardless, quite an embarassment, but I will stop there, because she was hit with one misfortune in life after another. Her personal character was a result of her difficult life. Her stage presence was equally the result of a difficult life. I will leave our dearly departed alone with only that much. May she finally rest in peace. Hagop, i remember during Elvinas early year people would talk lots of trash about her, misfortunes came as a result of and mostly from that, now about Datevik, she never clamed she was a folk singer, always was and is a Jazz performer, Maybe her only curse is she was born Armenian? she is great http://www.naregatsi.org/Datevik/photogallery2/images/ISLIP%20JAZZ%20FESTIVAL.jpg Edited November 13, 2007 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 and if I may also add she has never, ever has been an "incubator" product of Artur Grigoyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error 404 Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I have always said that jazz is a form of folk tradition. Of course that is why the idea of a jazz standard comes along. I don't condemn the performance of original or standards. I just don't like the distasteful and often exaggerated desire to "jazzify" everything, and especially I don't respect those who first of all don't respect their own culture. I find the "Ella Fitzgeraldization" of Komitas to be a sign of disrespecte, not because I have disrespect for Ella, but because I see that those who choose to perform an Armenian folk tune in that style and improvise in that style. I don't ever feel anything Armenian as an element in DH's performances. I see her trying to COPY precisely the STYLE, the VOCAL TIMBRE, the INFLECTIONS, the PHRASING, everything that is Ella. In the re-interpretation of older standards and the delivery of original compositions, I expect an original and heartfelt performance. Otherwise, I don't see any point in paying hommage to a living recording of someone else. When I listen to Chick Corea I can feel the Bach's, Bethoven's influence/inspiration also Spanish folk music in his works. Keith Jarrett reminds about Mozart. Buena Vista Social club's jazz is about cuban folk music. John Mclaughlin (sometimes with other performers) has indian, middle eastern and other influence in his music. I can feel the old black folk in Miles Davis's music. There are many more. Like you have said above "you don't like distasteful and often exaggerated desire to "jazzify" everything". It depends who does it and how it is done. I think Tatevik is fine. She also introduces Komitas to world. It is always hard to find common taste in any kind of art. P.S. What do you think about Arto Tung Boyajian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVO Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Is this Elvina singing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 When I listen to Chick Corea I can feel the Bach's, Bethoven's influence/inspiration also Spanish folk music in his works. Keith Jarrett reminds about Mozart. Buena Vista Social club's jazz is about cuban folk music. John Mclaughlin (sometimes with other performers) has indian, middle eastern and other influence in his music. I can feel the old black folk in Miles Davis's music. There are many more. Like you have said above "you don't like distasteful and often exaggerated desire to "jazzify" everything". It depends who does it and how it is done. I think Tatevik is fine. She also introduces Komitas to world. It is always hard to find common taste in any kind of art. P.S. What do you think about Arto Tung Boyajian? And also Tatevik performed Shalaxo first, it was unique...But now many Armenian singers make money doing that...After late Varduhi Vardanyan made a music video on it, some Azeri singer claimed that it was her performance and that the music is pure Azeri...There was a debate but i dont know how did it end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_femme333_ Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Another remake that sounds great! Arno Babajanian's "Nocturne" played by Levon Malkhasian, although the quality of the sound is not good. I better not hear anything negative from hagop about this improvisation!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_femme333_ Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Is this Elvina singing? Yeah...sounds like her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Hagop, i remember during Elvinas early year people would talk lots of trash about her, misfortunes came as a result of and mostly from that, now about Datevik, she never clamed she was a folk singer, always was and is a Jazz performer, Maybe her only curse is she was born Armenian? she is great http://www.naregatsi.org/Datevik/photogallery2/images/ISLIP%20JAZZ%20FESTIVAL.jpg As Elvina damaged herself on her own, so did Tatevik harm herself long ago. I wouldn't point to the public opinion as the source of personal misfortunes. They were doing just fine in the Soviet days, but why would anyone be surprised if the Armenian public decides to criticize mediocrity? Is the Armenian public obliged to praise bad music and bad performance simply because it is some "duty" of theirs "as good Armenians"? Ironically, the Armenia public was more forgiving than many of their non-Armenian counterparts in similar situations. In any case, Tatevik and company are different from Elvina and her generation. Elvina's generation came during King Constantin Orbelian's reign, the hegemony of whose "reign" was trimmed down, thank God, because he was pressured by good men such as the old "General Mayor" Alexander Hekimian. Hekimian forced, literally forced Orbelian to perform more Armenian sounding tunes, among them Hekimian's own compositions for which we still are thankful to this day: Bari Aragil, Yerkir Indz Hamar, yev ayln. Thus Elvina's generation was checked before it could do much damage. They and their otaramol "sound" were not taken too seriously, at least not nearly as seriously as during Tatevik's and Herr Comissar Artur's reign. Tatevik's generation was different indeed. They had free reign, no competition, and no inhibitors. King Otaramoltyun reigned supreme. She and Artur were icons of "Armenian culture" and did their work on it, the type of bad work that others are trying to undue for the decades after independence. She and Artur better not try to run and hide after many years of disrespect. To say that she claimed to be nothing but a [implied simple, lonely] "jazz singer" is a misleading statement. She definitely claimed, along with Artur, to be the "new Armenian cultural generation" and nothing less. Everything else, especially traditional music or anything even approaching it, was laughed at and ignored. We still feel the strong remnants of this shockawave of theirs. Of course the Armenian public didn't take this lying down. Artur later got a few public punches in the face here and decided to "put an Armenian folk troope together," which consisted of 2nd generation Ayo Showakans like Alla Levonian, Aram Avagyan, and others. Needless to say, these "Karaoke" concerts with Artur bringing his troope with the "Minusavor CD in the Pocket" didn't impress the public that much, and he further declined in popularity in the diaspora, especially Los Angeles, the Bread and Butter concert location for these self-proclaimed (yes, self-proclaimed) "Grdonchiner." This is roughly the time when the original Ayo Show "saniks", those like Nune, left on their own and found their own success down their own chosen paths. Slightly to her credit, Tatevik played it smart and left Artur's side and truly became at least in part of what she claimed, a simple New York jazz singer wishful looking for success the hard way, with no help from Herr Comissar Artur G. Yet, she still enjoys the "vastakavor petakan artist" title whenever they throw it at her, which reminds me that she could yet again consider herself as "representative of Armenian culture." As the matter of fact, she stil does. Oh, I agree with you that she is just a jazz singer, just a jazz singer who happens to choose, unfrotunatley for us, some Komitas collected songs to put through the ջեզային ջաղացք: I am not so sure she agrees with you. Sorry that I cannot oblige to the call for kindness and compassion on this one ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_femme333_ Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I hope everyone enjoys this. Well thought lyrics. Who's the hunk? He should try his talents in Jazz http://youtube.com/watch?v=R_58rh0Jamk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I hope everyone enjoys this. Well thought lyrics. Who's the hunk? He should try his talents in Jazz http://youtube.com/watch?v=R_58rh0Jamk You're Joking, right???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Another remake that sounds great! Arno Babajanian's "Nocturne" played by Levon Malkhasian, although the quality of the sound is not good. I better not hear anything negative from hagop about this improvisation!!! I have nothing bad to say about side men such as Malkhas, Yervand Yolchian, S. Shakaryan. On the same token, I have nothing to say that is stupendously complimentary. You want my opinion. It sounds like a high school jazz combo who just learned to play the Samba pattern and learned to improvise. Such was the fate of Soviet Jazz. Now, is that so bad? No. Yet, is it so good? Equally no--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I hope everyone enjoys this. Well thought lyrics. Who's the hunk? He should try his talents in Jazz http://youtube.com/watch?v=R_58rh0Jamk Listen, I will not say anything about the dearly departed anymore-- But, since we have a couple of Re-Incarnations of Aram Papik, I will say one good thing about this phenomenon, and only one... They must, must have the best Western Gourmet sausage collection stored in their house. As the matter of fact, I can smell, vividly, the sausage through this song. the backgrond "vocals" are the mayonnaise spread over this, oh, so wondeful "sassinski sandvich." As to jazz in any way related to this, well, there's Kenny G! -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Listen, I will not say anything about the dearly departed anymore-- But, since we have a couple of Re-Incarnations of Aram Papik, I will say one good thing about this phenomenon, and only one... They must, must have the best Western Gourmet sausage collection stored in their house. As the matter of fact, I can smell, vividly, the sausage through this song. the backgrond "vocals" are the mayonnaise spread over this, oh, so wondeful "sassinski sandvich." As to jazz in any way related to this, well, there's Kenny G! -- Hagop Jan...I could not agree more...The lyics are miserable...I get sick when they put this song at paties... Ax rus Maya...Ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 and if I may also add she has never, ever has been an "incubator" product of Artur Grigoyan I disagree. She and all the others in this "modern" generation sing exactly alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error 404 Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Another remake that sounds great! Arno Babajanian's "Nocturne" played by Levon Malkhasian, although the quality of the sound is not good. I better not hear anything negative from hagop about this improvisation!!! Ayoooooooooo You made my day! Levon is a great. Everytime when I am in wynn (Vegas) I wish he plays there. Es angam Yerevanum vochmidsev chhajoghvec gnai "Malxasnoc" Edo qeri myus angam miasin enq gnalu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Hagop Jan...I could not agree more...The lyics are miserable...I get sick when they put this song at paties... Ax rus Maya...Ugh... Anyway, to put things int he persepctive from which I see things, here is a video from our culture destroying neighbors to the North: http://youtube.com/watch?v=eEgTsKEmRxc One thing that can be said is this: They know how to sell culture, even ours, as theirs. What do we do? We praise lounge singers and elevate them to "national cultural icon" status. This so-called "Imertian dance" is Hamsheni and quite Armenian http://youtube.com/watch?v=k4H6XMeYn6w The rhythm, the dance,everything. The attribute everything to themselves, but we are too sheepish to truly take a grip of our heritage. The Armenian song sung by the older man and boy duo, listen and convince to the world that this is Armenian. The end result of such otaramol neglect and irresponsibility? Everything that Tiflis was and is is Armenian, but look at this "Gruzinski Showcase." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_femme333_ Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Listen, I will not say anything about the dearly departed anymore-- But, since we have a couple of Re-Incarnations of Aram Papik, I will say one good thing about this phenomenon, and only one... They must, must have the best Western Gourmet sausage collection stored in their house. As the matter of fact, I can smell, vividly, the sausage through this song. the backgrond "vocals" are the mayonnaise spread over this, oh, so wondeful "sassinski sandvich." As to jazz in any way related to this, well, there's Kenny G! -- Ohhhh how much I can't stand Kenny G! His music reminds me of screetching tires! I never really liked that type of saxaphone...now Miles Davis with a trumpet is a different story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Here is another armenian dance http://youtube.com/watch?v=iHOAFxmbqnI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Here is another armenian dance http://youtube.com/watch?v=iHOAFxmbqnI yet another Armenian song Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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