Question About A Word

[Louise]

In a testimony from a man from Havarek (Bitlis) - N° 14 Verjen Svazlian -

he said that they had to pay 1 PUT of wheat as tax.

WHat does that PUT mean ? is it n armenian word ? I did not find.

[Johannes]

Բարեւ Տ. Լուիզ,

Այդ բառը շատ տեսած եմ ցորեն բառի հետ միատեղ: Այսպէս՝ մէկ փութ ցորեն: Կ՛երեւի կշիռքի չափ է:

[Louise]

Բարեւ Տ. Լուիզ,

Այդ բառը շատ տեսած եմ ցորեն բառի հետ միատեղ: Այսպէս՝ մէկ փութ ցորեն: Կ՛երեւի կշիռքի չափ է:

 

Thank you for your reply, I thought too that it was a number of pounds of wheat.

But how much ? I suppose it was a heavy tax.

[Yervant1]

My late mother (Astvats hogin lusavori) used to use that word, meaning "Mi gitch". e.g. Mi put shagar ber.

Definitely I think it's a some sort of measurement but don't know the amount. I also think that it is used in Turkish meaning the same thing.

[Arpa]

Բարեւ Տ. Լուիզ,

Այդ բառը շատ տեսած եմ ցորեն բառի հետ միատեղ: Այսպէս՝ մէկ փութ ցորեն: Կ՛երեւի կշիռքի չափ է:

This is what happens when we confuse the Mesropian/Latin/Greek trnsliteration of Ayb Ben Gim with that of te Isranbulian Ayp Pen Qim, replace B with P, G with Q , D with T and Tho (Թ)with T.

See where ՊՈՒՏ and ԿԱԹԻԼ converge.

Contributo 177): (origin:) Կարելի է դնել հյ. պոյտն «պտուկ» բառից:

Consider this from Ajarian. ՊՈՒՏ ՄԸ ԿԱԹԻԼ

ՊՈՒՏ 2

Dialect section present: yes

«կաթիլ»

պուտ 2. յետին հյ. բառ, որ գտնում եմ գործածուած Առաքել պտմ. 457. Յիշում է նաեւ Բառ. երեմ. 246. շիթ բառի բացատրութեան մէջ: Կենդանի է գաւառականներում պուտ ձեւով. այս ձեւն էլ է յիշում Բառ. երեմ. անդ: Նշանակում է նաեւ «կէտ», որից տպտպիկ «կէտ կէտ խայտերով» Առաք. լծ. սահմ. 555. գւռ. տպտպուրիկ (վկայութիւնը տես նկտա): - Նոյն է վերջապէս գւռ. պուտ «նիշ պիսակի, մարմնի վրայ խալ», որ յիշում է ՆՀԲ, յաւել. 1066բ:

Edited September 24, 2007 by Arpa

[Louise]

My late mother (Astvats hogin lusavori) used to use that word, meaning "Mi gitch". e.g. Mi put shagar ber.

Definitely I think it's a some sort of measurement but don't know the amount. I also think that it is used in Turkish meaning the same thing.

---------------------------

 

It must be that. Thank you Yervant1 - The peasants had many taxes to pay, it was an

occasion for collectors to visit them and stay a few days in their houses.

[Louise]

This is what happens when we confuse the Mesropian/Latin/Greek trnsliteration of Ayb Ben Gim with that of te Isranbulian Ayp Pen Qim, replace B with P, G with Q , D with T and Tho (Թ)with T.

See where ՊՈՒՏ and ԿԱԹԻԼ converge.

----------------------------

 

I had not thought of the word "bud" that my mother said in armenian. That means: a little.

In a village of 1 hundred families, each one gave a "bud" of wheat. They had often the visit

of collectors, there were many kinds of taxes to pay. Thank you.

I'll have many other questions to ask about misunderstood words.

[Harut]

պուտ and փութ are two different things... the word in question in the original post is most likely refering to փութ... if memory doesn't fail me փութ is supposed to be around 16kg... which makes sense in this given context... պուտ, on the other hand, as already mentioned above, means little, պտղունց, and also dot, պուտավոր... Edited September 24, 2007 by Harut

[AVO]

when googling the word փութ all of the results are referring to a measurement

Google - փութ.

 

[Harut]

what i'm reading from above google results, it seems փութ is referring to pound...

[Arpa]

when googling the word փութ all of the results are referring to a measurement

Google - փութ.

Note the difference spelling beween "ՓՈՒԹ and ՊՈԷԹ: If you must spell it as ՓՈՒԹ, also note that ԲՈՒԹ it means dull, as in dull knife.As well as բթամիտ dull brained, thick headed. Where is Hagarag? :goof:

Quote from the above. Observe “ՊՈՒՏ, ԿԱԹԻԼ and ՇԻԹ” all meaning “drop”.

Contributo 177): (origin:) Կարելի է դնել հյ. պոյտն «պտուկ» բառից:

Consider this from Ajarian. ՊՈՒՏ ՄԸ ԿԱԹԻԼ

ՊՈՒՏ 2

Dialect section present: yes

«կաթիլ»

պուտ 2. յետին հյ. բառ, որ գտնում եմ գործածուած Առաքել պտմ. 457. Յիշում է նաեւ Բառ. երեմ. 246. շիթ բառի բացատրութեան մէջ: Կենդանի է գաւառականներում պուտ ձեւով. այս ձեւն էլ է յիշում Բառ. երեմ. անդ: Նշանակում է նաեւ «կէտ», որից տպտպիկ «կէտ կէտ խայտերով»:

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=5209&hl=hivand

 

@stverin mej khani m'ankun@ lqvadz

Tshvar pandukht hivand e,

Khonavutyun@ anor marmin@ shith-shith

Gerezmanin k@ nete.

 

In the shadow, in the corner of a khan

Poor migrant! He is sick

The dampness, drop by drop

Hurls his body to the grave.

 

The rest can be found at the following site. I don't dare transmit it, Garo may be so kind to do it. http://www.geocities.com/armenia2003/armen...try/hivante.htm

I doubt if anyone can see the KD-Win/NLS Armenian text above.Here is the opening in Unicode; The opening verse.

Հիւանդ Է by Dnaiel Varuzhan

 

Ըստուերին մէջ,խանի մանկիւնը լքուած

Թըշուար պանդուխտ հիւանդ է.

Խոնավութիւնն անոր մարմինը ՇԻԹ- ՇԻԹ

Գերեզմանին կը նետէ:

The above poem is one such describing the misery of the Armenian migrant workers in Polis who simply melted away and died while their family in the interiors still hoped to receive their hard earned moneys. Ruben Sevak, although known as a poet as well is best known for his short stories, most of which are taken from his medical diaries as he was trained as a physician, he has a few stories describing the hell these migrant workers endured, or better yet, could not. I may access some of his poetry but I don't have his articles and short stories.

Posted on: Feb 24 2002, 06:26 AM

Tshvar Pandukht, Poor Migrant

Hivand E by Daniel Varouzhan

 

@stverin mej khani m'ankun@ lqvadz

Tshvar pandukht hivand e

Khonavutyun@ anor marmin@ shith-shith

Gerezmanin k@ nete.

 

In the shadow, in the corner of a khan

Poor migrant! He is sick

The dampness, drop by drop

Hurls his body to the grave.

 

The rest can be found at the following site. I don't dare transmit it, Garo may be so kind to do it. http://www.geocities.com/armenia2003/armen...try/hivante.htm

 

The above poem is one such describing the misery of the Armenian migrant workers in Polis who simply melted away and died while their family in the interiors still hoped to receive their hard earned moneys. Ruben Sevak, although known as a poet as well is best known for his short stories, most of which are taken from his medical diaries as he was trained as a physician, he has a few stories describing the hell these migrant workers endured, or better yet, could not. I may access some of his poetry but I don't have his articles and short stories.

Forum: Literature · Post Preview: #40101 · Replies: 3 · Views: 218

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=52...st=&p=&

Edited September 25, 2007 by Arpa

[Louise]

Note the difference spelling beween "ՓՈՒԹ and ՊՈԷԹ: If you must spell it as ՓՈՒԹ, also note that ԲՈՒԹ it means dull, as in dull knife.As well as բթամիտ dull brained, thick headed. Where is Hagarag? :goof:

Quote from the above. Observe “ՊՈՒՏ, ԿԱԹԻԼ and ՇԻԹ” all meaning “drop”.

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=5209&hl=hivand

The rest can be found at the following site. I don't dare transmit it, Garo may be so kind to do it. http://www.geocities.com/armenia2003/armen...try/hivante.htm

I doubt if anyone can see the KD-Win/NLS Armenian text above.Here is the opening in Unicode; The opening verse.

Հիւանդ Է by Dnaiel Varuzhan

 

Ըստուերին մէջ,խանի մանկիւնը լքուած

Թըշուար պանդուխտ հիւանդ է.

Խոնավութիւնն անոր մարմինը ՇԻԹ- ՇԻԹ

Գերեզմանին կը նետէ:

 

Posted on: Feb 24 2002, 06:26 AM

Tshvar Pandukht, Poor Migrant

Hivand E by Daniel Varouzhan

 

@stverin mej khani m'ankun@ lqvadz

Tshvar pandukht hivand e

Khonavutyun@ anor marmin@ shith-shith

Gerezmanin k@ nete.

 

In the shadow, in the corner of a khan

Poor migrant! He is sick

The dampness, drop by drop

Hurls his body to the grave.

 

The rest can be found at the following site. I don't dare transmit it, Garo may be so kind to do it. http://www.geocities.com/armenia2003/armen...try/hivante.htm

 

The above poem is one such describing the misery of the Armenian migrant workers in Polis who simply melted away and died while their family in the interiors still hoped to receive their hard earned moneys. Ruben Sevak, although known as a poet as well is best known for his short stories, most of which are taken from his medical diaries as he was trained as a physician, he has a few stories describing the hell these migrant workers endured, or better yet, could not. I may access some of his poetry but I don't have his articles and short stories.

Forum: Literature · Post Preview: #40101 · Replies: 3 · Views: 218

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=52...st=&p=&

------------------------------------------

 

 

I thank everybody for your replies Now I am note sure if it does not mean 16 pounds.

That could be another probability.

 

I have already translated this poem in French,

and if anybody here undestands, I had written:

'Il est malade)

... L humidite, GOUTTE A GOUTTE

Jette son corps a la tombe

 

(there it means "gatil gatil)

 

 

[Arpa]

------------------------------------------

I thank everybody for your replies Now I am note sure if it does not mean 16 pounds.

That could be another probability.

 

I have already translated this poem in French,

and if anybody here undestands, I had written:

'Il est malade)

... L humidite, GOUTTE A GOUTTE

Jette son corps a la tombe

 

(there it means "gatil gatil)

Please Louise. Post your translation under one of

the many threads dedicated to Varoujean/Varuzhan/ Varujan. Iwish we had a house rule of transliteration. But that is whole another subject.

====

My apologies.

I led the audience in a wild goose chase mainly because I could not find it mentioned anywhere.

Even if I don’t regret as we went through several homophonic /նոյնաձայն words.

It may seem that I lied. I did not look far and beyond and go through acrobatic contortions. Yes, I did see ՓՈՒԹ where one was redirected to ՊԱՏԱՌ/morcel/tearing, until I took an indirect route. I finally spotted the word in the Hanragitaran , under the monograph of Chapagitoutiun/Չափագիտութիւն, metrics, where, oddly enough the word is spelled ՓՈՒՏ(note the Տv Թ).

Then I found the following, which explains why it is hard o find in modern dictionaries. What is said below is that the term is an ancient and obsolete Russian unit of weight equal to q16.3805 kilograms, that fell to disuse in 1924, after metrification, yet, however , one may still see it in some places when applied to agricultural weights and measure, particularly in the grain industry.

 

ՓՈՒԹ

Զանքուածի եւ կշռի միաւոր որը կիրառուել է Ռուսաստանում

…..

մինչեւ Չափերի մետրական համակարգի մուծումը

….

Առաջին անգամ հիշատակուել է ԺԲ(XII) դարում

= 40 ֆունտ =16,3805 կգ/kilogram

….

Հայաստանում 1924 ին հանվել է գործածութիւնից …

Բայց երբեմն դեռ հանդիպում է գիւղատնտեսական արտադրանքին, գլխավորապէս հացահատիկին վերաբերող նիւթերում …

Edited September 25, 2007 by Arpa