Germanahay

[iminhokis]

Shame on most of you, what a poor "Armenity"!

 

 

 

To the webmaster / team:

 

I am really disapointed.

How can you allow such "RACISTIC" TOPICS?

 

What when a Turk insults Armenians? Would he be banned?

But when an Armenian insults a whole "group" of Armenians, nobody cares?!?

 

And on top, how can you allow any member, whether Turk, Armenian or any other nationality, to publicly INSULT one of the highest members

of the Armenian Church, Patriarch Mutafyan? No matter, whether I like him or not, people should be adult enough to express their free opinion in a respectful manner.

 

I am member of this forum since many years and reading regularly through your topics.

I am Armenian and I have my roots in Turkey, as well as in Europe.

I am attached to Lebanon and also Armenia, I have my own opinion too and do not like every Armenian opinion either,

but above all these, the first thing my Armenian family from TURKEY has teach me was "HARKANK".

 

Some of the members must have missed that part in their education and it is sad that Hyeforum seems to allow this kind of behavor in this forum.

Edited July 24, 2007 by iminhokis

[Johannes]

Ես կը յարգեմ քեզ Իմին հոգիս

[Error 404]

Well,

 

maybe gamavor's comments were a little bit too harsh but I completely agree that mutafyan is a traitor and propaganda trool in the hands of turkish government.

 

Cheerz

[Louise]

Well,

 

mutafyan is a traitor and propaganda trool in the hands of turkish government.

 

-----------------------------

 

Hello ! I agree too. ( Il est plus royaliste que le roi )

But what else can he do ? He does not want to loose his life and properties and

die a hero's death.

[Arpa]

A very interesting article from the Armenian Weekly.

It seems more of us are talking about the subject. Even though I agree with most of it, my only problem is, yoy guessed it, semantical, when they use such oxymorons, contradiction in terms phrases as "Turkish Armenian". Will someone please tell us how someone can be both furkish and Armenian simultaneously!! Would not terms like Armenian from Istanbul, or Armenians from Turkey be a more PC term? Is it not like terms like Muslim Jew or Buddhist Christian?

=====

1. Istanbul-Armenians or Turkish-Armenians?

By Khajag Mgrditchian

 

 

ISTANBUL, Turkey (A.W.)-The Armenian genocide depleted Western Armenia of

its Armenian population. Istanbul, however, was spared from most of the

large-scale massacres and deportations, and a sizeable number of Armenians

remained there-in a city that has played an important role in Armenian

history and literature during the last century and a half.

 

For years and years, the words "Western Armenian" and "Turkish-Armenian"

have been taken out of our communal vocabulary and replaced by

"Istanbul-Armenians," with the assumption that Armenians in Turkey live

exclusively in Istanbul.

 

It was later discovered that Armenians continue to live under the shadow of

Musa Dagh, in the village of Vakif. And in the last few years, pockets of

Armenians have been "discovered" throughout the different regions of Western

Armenia, living in hiding and keeping their identity a secret, fearful of

reprisals if they assert themselves as Armenians. Many have converted to

Islam. Apart from these Armenians, there are also the Hemshin Armenians, who

themselves discovered their Armenians roots only after the Republic of

Armenia gained independence and they met others who spoke Armenian for the

first time.

 

The French television station "France 24" recently broadcast a program about

Armenians in Turkey who have had to hide their ethnic origins. The reporter

preparing the program stated that the number of Armenians currently living

in Turkey is significantly more than the 60,000 that is declared, since that

figure only represents the Armenians living in Istanbul.

 

Hemshin Armenians are gradually becoming more aware of their roots, and the

thousands of Armenians who have immigrated to Belgium, France, Holland,

Germany and other European countries from Turkey are evidence of the

relatively large Armenian population still in the regions of Western

Armenia. International experts and media outlets also confirm the presence

of a large number of Armenians living in Western Armenia.

 

Thus, the label of "Istanbul-Armenians" has once again come to define the

Armenian population of one specific city, while the label of

"Turkish-Armenian" now applies to a much larger constituency. The use of

these words is not just a matter of semantics, it is a matter of our

fundamental approach to Armenian communities and our acceptance of the

presence of a very large community.

 

Without discussing the above-mentioned issues, we talked to some

Istanbul-Armenians regarding the use of these words. Sarkis Seropian, editor

of the Armenian section of the Agos newspaper agreed that the label of

"Turkish-Armenian" has a more inclusive connotation, and it would be wrong

to limit ourselves to the use of "Istanbul-Armenians." But, he said, "We are

used to it. Sometimes I make that mistake as well. For example, the

Patriarch is the Patriarch of all Turkish-Armenians, at least for now he is

thus named. But, given that 99 percent of the Armenian population in Turkey

is concentrated in Istanbul, and that every year the Armenian population in

Anatolia decreases due to migration to Istanbul or elsewhere, the use of the

term "Istanbul-Armenian" is not that inappropriate, in my opinion. Aside

from the Vakif village, which has an Armenian community, there are no other

villages or cities with considerable Armenian populations. Thirty to forty

years ago there were some, but their numbers have and still continue to

decrease every day."

 

Let us open a parenthesis here and expand on the village of Vakif. Seropian

said that "Vakif is the only village where Armenians live and are still the

majority. Unfortunately, the youth there are leaving the village, though at

least in the summers, they visit the village from abroad or from Istanbul.

The village is very unique, and it received some exposure in the Turkish

press and television ads. Some people have opened businesses there to

produce organic, clean vegetables and fruits. The tourism sector is also

developing in the village, and some old buildings have been renovated and

turned into hotels. The Church has also been renovated," he added.

 

Robert Haddejian, editor of the Marmara daily newspaper, is not opposed to

the use of the label "Turkish-Armenian" because for him, "Turkish-Armenians

have symbolically been fused with Istanbul-Armenians." He continued, "Before

anything else, we must protect ourselves and what we have. When I talk about

what we have I am referring to a treasure that we have, which is not small

or insignificant. It is quite large, vast and historic. What

Istanbul-Armenians have is a huge treasure, it is historic, it is living, it

is above and underneath the soil. We are the protectors of all that, and by

staying here we are that treasure's loyal protectors. I have always believed

that our brothers and sisters living abroad, those who have Armenian

consciousness, should thank us for having stayed and protecting our wealth

here. And we will always protect it."

 

We are naturally proud of Istanbul-Armenians who are guarding our heritage

and of course, we thank them for guarding our history despite the

unfavorable conditions. However, our gratitude must not stop us from

expanding the sphere of those who are aware of the treasures still in

Western Armenia. We saw some of those treasures when we visited the

Patriarchate and were welcomed graciously, and were guided through the

Patriarchate museum. In this museum, however, almost all of the exhibited

relics and objects were gathered from Istanbul or from the immediate

proximity of the city. There was only one object from Western Armenia, which

belonged to a church in Van. We would have been glad to see the history of

Western Armenia exhibited where it belongs and not in a museum, but the fact

is the treasures of Western Armenia have disappeared.

 

The label of "Turkish-Armenian," should be adopted first and foremost by

Istanbul Armenians themselves. They must realize that they are the

protectors of all the cultural and historical treasures of Armenians in

Turkey and not just Istanbul. They should open their doors wide to those who

come to Istanbul Kurdified or Islamized, yet nevertheless aware of their

Armenian roots. Because it isn't just the Istanbul Armenian community that's

ours, but the thousands, if not millions of Armenians all over Turkey whose

identity was assailed by the genocide and Turkish government policies.

 

This call to change our mentality also applies to the different areas of the

diaspora, and especially to the "Istanbul Armenian Unions" active in

Northern America. They should become "Unions of Turkish-Armenians," not just

in name but in spirit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited August 14, 2007 by Arpa

[Boghos]

Dear DeLaLa,

Thanks for the very interesting data on Armenians from Turkey living in Germany.Please keep it coming.

[Arpa]

For all those who may still insist that Germanahays and Germanaturks are bosom buddies…

"The suspects, two German converts to Islam aged 22 and 29 and a 29-year-old Turk, appeared before a federal magistrate on Wednesday. They were picked up Tuesday after a series of raids in 30 places across Germany, Ziercke said."

Read the rest here;

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/0....terrorarrests/

And, this was all about blowing up American bases.

Please tell us how Turks and Americans are long lost lovers!!

 

[hosank]

either way this is pointless, armenians are armenians not turks, in turkey, or in germany, they are armenians, my mum is born in syria, but she is not a syrian, she is an armenian, as with all other armenians around the world.

[oorenk]

i have only met one armenian from istanbul. she described the armenians there as pretty much scared but trapped by their wealth - if/when they move they loose much of their wealth, which is the only reason they are still there. i'm sure outside of istanbul this is not the case, but i was wondering if any of you, who have more direct experience with this, know more about this. is it true that a large number of them hate where they are but it is because they do not want to loose their wealth that they stick around?

 

i hope to visit there some day myself, but for now i rely on you to enlighten me on this.

 

thank you

 

 

---

OOrenk.com

“we aim to expand worlds without being full of ourselves. Come, experience drifting off without uprooting”

[MosJan]

i have only met one armenian from istanbul. she described the armenians there as pretty much scared but trapped by their wealth - if/when they move they loose much of their wealth, which is the only reason they are still there. i'm sure outside of istanbul this is not the case, but i was wondering if any of you, who have more direct experience with this, know more about this. is it true that a large number of them hate where they are but it is because they do not want to loose their wealth that they stick around?

 

i hope to visit there some day myself, but for now i rely on you to enlighten me on this.

 

thank you

 

 

---

OOrenk.com

"we aim to expand worlds without being full of ourselves. Come, experience drifting off without uprooting"

 

 

i have asked it to a friend long time a go - his answer was - just like in USSR - property given to you by the government most be returned back and on the way to "exit" you sign a a declaration that you have no claims against the country

[Aubépine]

You can sell your own personal property, but the state doesn't allow Armenian foundations (along with Greek and Jewish foundations) to sell their assets or buy new ones. I think they even went as far as to expropriate much of the real estate of Armenian foundations and give it back to their previous owners in 1974. To sum it up the foundations can't buy or sell their real estate or any other assets, but I don't know what the current situation is.

[Aubépine]

i have only met one armenian from istanbul. she described the armenians there as pretty much scared but trapped by their wealth - if/when they move they loose much of their wealth, which is the only reason they are still there. i'm sure outside of istanbul this is not the case, but i was wondering if any of you, who have more direct experience with this, know more about this. is it true that a large number of them hate where they are but it is because they do not want to loose their wealth that they stick around?

 

i hope to visit there some day myself, but for now i rely on you to enlighten me on this.

 

thank you

---

OOrenk.com

“we aim to expand worlds without being full of ourselves. Come, experience drifting off without uprooting”

 

I know from my Armenian friends that many especially the younger Armenians want to leave Istanbul. The older generation intends to stay for sentimental reasons. It's not easy to leave your city of birth and many feel an obligation to preserve what's left. But I don't think they are truly comfortable in their skin and most yearn to leave.

[oorenk]

i can completely understand their connection to the city, from everything that i've read and heard about istanbul, it sounds magical.

 

do a lot of armenians still feel fear or do they think that the situation is completely different now?

 

i started thinking about their situation alot while we were writing the chapter/article on the armenians who used to live in baku. of course there are many differences, but still... at least some precautions should/can be taken based on pevious experiences of our people in all the other corners of the world... that's one of the reasons why we made sure that the book be available for free for whoever can't/don't want to spend $6 on it.

 

... but, unfortunately, the part that we didn't address (much), is what armenians in other countries can do when/if things get particularly bad for any of our people in any other country. hopefully the internet things and sites like these can keep us better connected.

[Aubépine]

I don't think it is fear. There is always an undercurrent of unease among them. I think they want to belong, but they are made to feel as foreigners in their own land. I wish there was a Turkish Armenian member in Hyeforum as it is pretty strange for me as a Turkish person to write how Turkish Armenians might feel. My thoughts are second-hand accounts at best from what I can gather from my Armenian friends. They would be in a much better position to tell what they really feel like.

[hosank]

i thought there was a bolsahye on the forum..

 

second, in my opinion, it would be an interesting idea if armenians in bolis with businesses gradually open up in yerevan, and progrssively move there. it seems to me that the first spurkahyes with motive to move to armenia would be the polsahyes

[Aubépine]

The US and Canada along with Australia are the most popular places where a Bolsahye will immigrate. Maybe European countries like France and Germany too. I don't think they will ever consider any other country except these.

[Louise]

The US and Canada along with Australia are the most popular places where a Bolsahye will immigrate. Maybe European countries like France and Germany too. I don't think they will ever consider any other country except these.

-----------------------

 

I know a BolsoYye who does wish to go in any of those countries.

He wants to go to Armenia.

He will go there, i am sure.

He wants to marry a really armenian girl.

[Aubépine]

Marriage is another matter. Now that is a good reason to move to Armenia.