Harut Posted November 19, 2001 Report Share Posted November 19, 2001 i did a little observation by myself to find out why in Armenian there are two variations for "yes" and "no".i came to a conclusion that"ayo" is translated to "yes""voch" is translated to "no""ha" means "is""che" means "isn't".are my observations correct?what do you think they are and what are their origins? thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nvard Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 As far as i know "Ayo" and "voch" are examples of proper Armenian language."Ha" means "Yes" and "che" means "no" in a normal everyday language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 In my family's Dikranegertsi dialect, only "ha" and "che" are used. We never heard "ayo" or "voch". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 Aghmug, Professor Bert Vaux of Harvard University has done an extensive study of Dikrangertzi Armenian. I suggest you contact him for a copy. I am sure that it will prove interesting to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh00t Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 Is Bert Vaux have any Armenian blood in him? How about James R. Russell? Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 Dr. Vaux is married to a young Armenian woman. I believe that Dr. Russell is or was married to an Armenian. Neither has Armenans blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh00t Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 Thanks hagarag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilafhead Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 quote:Originally posted by hagarag:Professor Bert Vaux of Harvard University has done an extensive study of Dikrangertzi Armenian. Thanks!About a year ago, UCLA included Dikranagert in their symposiums on Armenian cities. I was so pissed that I missed it, but luckily a cousin of mine went and gave me copies of the handouts (and the name of who video taped it).Mike[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: Aghmug ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violinist_KD5FEG Posted November 27, 2001 Report Share Posted November 27, 2001 as far as I know, ayo and voch are just plain yes and no but ha and che are verbs. I am just a student of Armenian but that is my observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 27, 2001 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2001 i think "che" is composed of "ch" negative prefix and "e" verb that mean "is"."ha" is composed of "h", which i have no idea what it is, and "a" which is again "is" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward demian Posted November 29, 2001 Report Share Posted November 29, 2001 Che means "not". ha is slang.Probably turkish. Actually you haveha in English slang. Ha? Ha! In Enlish is virtually identical in usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted November 29, 2001 Report Share Posted November 29, 2001 quote:Originally posted by edward demian:ha is slang.Probably turkish. Actually you haveha in English slang. Ha? Ha! In Enlish is virtually identical in usage."Ha", just like ma, mama, pa, ba, papa, baba, tata, dada, is one of the "universal words" that exist in many unrelated languages. It was probably being used by Armenians before the arrival of the Turks in Anatolia. Ditto for many/most of the other words mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 (edited) Here it is Harut. Ayo, du zksetsir tertsan@, sharan@ che?. Edited November 2, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 (edited) So what about chi and che? When do you use which? chi: in negating a verb in the 3rd person singular: chi + present participle e.g. chi imanum, chi tesnum, chi gnum, chi uzum. che: as Harut pointed out, to negate an object in the present tense: object + che e.g. sa seghan che, girq che, tun che, muk che. Of course in my dialect, we only know chi Edited November 2, 2004 by nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 "Ha" and "che" exist in ALL indo-european languages with some variations. "Yes" - "No" Eng. "Da" - "Niet" Rus. "Ya" - "Niht" Ger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 i did a little observation by myself to find out why in Armenian there are two variations for "yes" and "no". i came to a conclusion that "ayo" is translated to "yes" "voch" is translated to "no" "ha" means "is" "che" means "isn't". are my observations correct? what do you think they are and what are their origins? thank you style_images/master/snapback.png Very good Harut, I had not noticed this thread before. It seems like all the above are onomatopoeic, bnadzayn words, based on sound. Is anyone familiar with that sound that is made by popping the tip of the tongue against the upper teeth that comes out as something between ts and ch? Some people, including some Armenians use that sound to mean "no". As mentioned above by TB many of these words are universal in some form or other. Ha, ja, he etc. As Harut theorizes the ch in che may as well be the negating prefix attached to E ch-e to mean "not is/is not". The ch prefix is used in many other combination to impart the negative, best known being ch'Astvats, to mean "not God". I think Harut has made a ch'naskharhik (out of this world) dicovery. Ajarian does not have a monograph for che except under "voch", where he says that the latter replaced "che" sometime, and that "voch" is in fact a combination of root word "vo" (once again here compare the bnadzayn ha and o/vo), this time ch was added as a negating suffix. The most surprising, as expressed under another thread is the case of "ayo". We all remember how we were chided for using ha and che and advised to use ayo and voch instead as the former were/are vulgar. As mentioned above "ayo" is also a bnadzayn word, in saying so it means that it has very little to do with other yesses, including tbe English, the French oui or the German ja. Once again this reinforces that all peoples have somehow discovered and developed their yesses and no's independently and somehow they all sound alike. The surprising part is that it seems like some time ago we did not even have a word for yes. Ajarian uses the example of Russian and other Slavic languages where the answer to a question such as "do you see?" is not yes or no but it is "I see" or "I do nt see". He assumes that at one time we spoke that way also. Except, as mentioned above "ha" has preceded "ayo" which only appeared in Armenian during the 12th c. based on the fact that Mkhitar Gosh in his Datasdangirq had to explain his quote ; "Ayon ayo litsi ev vochn voch, or e han- ha ev vochn voch.." Later on Mattheos Yerznkatsi repeats the quote such; "Ayl yeghitsi dzer ban, ayo'n ayo ev vochn voch... aysinqn z-ha(y)n ha ev z-chen che" ( this shows voch was not used then as well?). Both quotes are taken from St. Paul's epistle to James where in chapter 5 verse 12 we read this; "Ard amen bane araj, yeghbayrners, yerdum ch@neq, voch yerknqi vra, voch yerkri vra, voch al ourish yerdum m@, hapa dzer ayon ayo @lla, ev voch@ voch..." Jas.5 1. [12] But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation. PS. Nairi chi is gavarayin of che. Best illustrated by kareli che kareli/chi kareli/not possible. Parskahays are not the only ones many Kiliketsis use it as well. As one of my Kesabsti friend would say; "Kanza ta dzhvoor chi" to "Aydqan al dzhvar che". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Is anyone familiar with that sound that is made by popping the tip of the tongue against the upper teeth that comes out as something between ts and ch? style_images/master/snapback.png I would call that an ingressive unaspirated alveolar affricate As in a ts, but pronounced sucking air in rather than out (hence ingressive, and not egressive). Not sure if there's an official term for this, if only because it's not part of any language, including Armenian. It's just a sound, but not used as part of normal speech. Unless it's once again something our Western linguists have ignored (or only written about obscurely).. I'll have to look this up. It might in fact be a click, very much like the ones Africans use, but from what I've heard of clicks so far, this ingressive ts seems to be made differently. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll get back to this as soon as I come across something. No promises. Meanwhile, I'll call it an ingressive ts What else could it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 I would call that an ingressive unaspirated alveolar affricate style_images/master/snapback.png Mind your language Nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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