Mariam Matossian

[MosJan]

http://www.mariammatossian.com/site/

http://www.myspace.com/mariammatossian

About Mariam Matossian":

Mariam Matossian is an example of the musical treasures that exist in the world next door. Vancouver born and raised, Mariam has been collecting traditional Armenian folk songs and creating her own melodies since she was a child, and initially, mainly singing these songs in her community. Most of the traditional songs that she sings have been passed down through her family - songs that were favourites of her grandmother and her mother, and now they have become her own favourites. With over ten years of training in classical voice, Mariam brings the range and control of a classical singer to the spontaneity and passion of the folk tradition and combines the two to produce a synthesis that has earned her rave reviews from everyone who has heard her. In 1998, she travelled to Armenia, the first member of her family to set foot in the Homeland. She volunteered for an English language newspaper there and through that work, learned about the plight of the many street children. In 2002, she took a leave of absence from her teaching career to return to Armenia to work with these children. It was during this time that Mariam's passion for singing met her new commitment to bring attention to contemporary Armenia. When she returned to Vancouver, she continued to perform the songs she had learned from her family and songs she had learned in Armenia, including those taught to her by some of the children she had worked with in Yerevan. Those who heard her sing told her she needed to record. In 2004, Mariam released her first album, Far From Home (produced by Adam Popowitz) and began performing with her ensemble which includes accomplished musicians from the jazz and world music scene in Canada. Her debut recording has won rave reviews and has had airplay across Canada and in the United States. It was chosen as one of Echoes 25 Essential Albums for 2005 in the United States. Mariam's interpretation of Groong/The Crane was featured in Araz Artinian's moving documentary, The Genocide in Me. Currently, Mariam has once again teamed with producer and musician, Adam Popowitz, to work on her second album, In the Light, which will be released in early 2007. And once again a group of amazing musicians that includes Elliot Polsky, Jesse Zubot, Gordon Grdina, Pepe Danza and others has come together to work with Mariam on this new project. Blessed with a beautiful voice and a natural stage presence, Mariam is sharing with the world at large her repertoire which includes her interpretations of the traditional folk songs of Armenia and her own new creations as she and her band are invited to perform at festivals and in concert halls across the country. And in this way, Mariam is delighted that her dream of sharing the beauty and richness of her beloved culture with a world audience is being fulfilled. I edited my profile with Thomas' Myspace Editor V4.4

[Arpa]

Whoever this Mariam Matossian is. She is such a clownish fraud.

First, that she sings to OUD music, and then she sings; "Sirounik, sirounik, sirounik 'NASH-KHOUN kakavik" instead of the correct Armenian word "NAKH-SHOUN.

Some people should learn the Armenian language, and learn that the OUD is not an Armenian instrument.

[Armenak]

First, that she sings to OUD music, and then she sings; "Sirounik, sirounik, sirounik 'NASH-KHOUN kakavik" instead of the correct Armenian word "NAKH-SHOUN.

Some people should learn the Armenian language, and learn that the OUD is not an Armenian instrument.

And the duduk isn't an American instrument, but it's used in so many American films and songs now.

 

This girl has a nice voice.

[MosJan]

duduk is not an Armenian instrument

 

Armenak du et ban@ pit chaseyir / qun@s paxav / Tansyon@s ver gnats babam

 

Dudukits HAykakan Gortsiq chka / inq@ merna / inq@ mer sirty dziynnna / inq@ mer hogu Mormoqna / inq@ en darr@ orva @enkerna / inq@ en Harsi PArna / inq@ en Zinvori Karotna / inq@ inqna ! inq@ Haya Haykakan TSirani Dar@ Artsunqna /

 

[Armenak]

duduk is not an Armenian instrument

 

Armenak du et ban@ pit chaseyir / qun@s paxav / Tansyon@s ver gnats babam

 

Dudukits HAykakan Gortsiq chka / inq@ merna / inq@ mer sirty dziynnna / inq@ mer hogu Mormoqna / inq@ en darr@ orva @enkerna / inq@ en Harsi PArna / inq@ en Zinvori Karotna / inq@ inqna ! inq@ Haya Haykakan TSirani Dar@ Artsunqna /

I said the duduk is not an American instrument.

[MosJan]

ohhh ok sirt@s hangstatsav / te che lav cher linelu im hamar

[Arpa]

And the duduk isn't an American instrument, but it's used in so many American films and songs now.

 

This girl has a nice voice.

Totally off target.

Is the piano, among others an Armenian instrument? Did AK Arno and Komitas write piano music because it is an Armenian instrument? But playing the oud as if it were an Armenian instrument is an insult at best. BTW. the best oud players are/were Armenians but does that make it an Armenian instrument? What about Armenian virtuosi of piano and vilon. Does that make the latter Armenian instruments. Please don't bend the issue and stop teaching us which is an Armenian instrument and which not. If all those professional oud players were to play a genuine Armenian instrument instead we would not be in such an impossible predicament trying to advertise our native culture instead of promoting other peoples' cultures. Yes, the likes of Jivan placed Armenian music and the duduk on the world map of musical culture. Which of those oud players have promoted noble Armenian music? Did Sayat Nova play the oud?

OK, we have heard that the saz is not an "Armenian" instrument either, however, it has been with us for millenia and it is as Armenian as any other. Just because others make barbeque shall we throw out the khorovats too? Ask Sip. Do we advertise Mongolian barbeque as Armenian cuisine?

Edited June 20, 2007 by Arpa

[Anoushik]

Dudukits HAykakan Gortsiq chka / inq@ merna / inq@ mer sirty dziynnna / inq@ mer hogu Mormoqna / inq@ en darr@ orva @enkerna / inq@ en Harsi PArna / inq@ en Zinvori Karotna / inq@ inqna ! inq@ Haya Haykakan TSirani Dar@ Artsunqna /

This was beautiful, Mosjan.

[Armenak]

The Armenian musicologist Komitas believed that the sring was the most characteristic among the Armenian instruments.

http://www.duduk.com/Blul-Sring-p-1-c-20.html

[Arpa]

The Armenian musicologist Komitas believed that the sring was the most characteristic among the Armenian instruments.

http://www.duduk.com/Blul-Sring-p-1-c-20.html

Did you know that "sring" is the same as the Latin "syringe"? Just like the "shrnga/enema"?

Edited June 20, 2007 by Arpa

[Armenak]

No, but I do now.

[MosJan]

duduk and zurna for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZPlNENCs_8

[MosJan]

Did you know that "sring" is the same as the Latin "syringe"? Just like the "shrnga/enema"?

 

i'll ricord a nice song on Sring for you Arpa jan - gave me a day or 2

[MosJan]

OK Arpa jan for you An Armenian Sring / Shvi

BY Albert VArdanyan - Kaqavik - =- Komitas

 

[kumkap]

Some people should learn the Armenian language, and learn that the OUD is not an Armenian instrument.

 

your first point is good, your second one is another illogical and ignorant one. an instrument is not armenian unless sayat nova played it? (he might not have even been armenian, some say he was persian). then there would be only one armenian instrument (qyamancha).

 

oud is an instrument that is used in armenian music, and there are many good examples of armenian music with oud, you just don't know about them obviously (maybe i'll start a new thread for oud). it's a thousand times more suitable to armenian music than guitar for example (for reasons i explained in another thread about the scales used in armenian music), and is no less armenian than qyamancha, tar, kanun, santur, saz, zurna and other instruments that are shared by many people that are close geographically to armenians. oud is usually attributed to the persians (though they have a different name for it and call it barbat). if this is the case then that puts it in a class with tar, kemence, santur and other persian instruments. in the end though it is hard to say which instrument belongs to who (how would you prove it?) kurds and turks also play duduk. they call it mey (not ney, that's different). when i was in van i heard the kurds there playing it. what we do know is that oud was one of the most popular instruments among western armenians. you can see this by looking at this website:

 

armenian oud

 

you have a bias against western armenian speakers. apparently that bias extends to anything common to western armenian culture as well. the fact that oud was popular among western armenians is what makes it not armenian to you. but while some of your points about language are fair, your musical knowledge is not so good. for example, in another thread you said:

 

You dare post this. Yes, yes! I love the nazelajem movement of those beautiful aghchiks doing the “tamarza”, yes tamarza/tomarza, not tamzara,( I can write about it, if I have not already done)

 

please, write about it. the dance is called TAMZARA, which is a village between Sabin Karahisar and Giresun/Kerasounta in the Pontic Mountains (i've been there, it's a very tiny village that's easy to miss). TOMARZA is the village my grandmother was born in, it's near Gesaria/Kayseri. she played oud by the way. the reason you know the song is from tamzara and not tomarza is because the dance is in 9/8, which is a rhythm specific to pontic greek and laz music.

 

you give us sites that feature noise created by oud-kak, dumb-kak, clari-kak and git-kak. In the Arabic culture the clarinet is known as "ghrnata/Granada, how far is that from Yerevan?

Where are the duduks, zurnas, dhols, kamanchas, shvis, srings, sazes, tars and kanons?

Does anyone remember those instruments anymore?

I bet you MosJan does!!

Can we get over our Turkish, Ottoman, Arabic … (musical) heritage already, and get back to the likes of the saz and kamancha of Sayat Nova!!!

 

so the clarinet is kak too? you must not like greek music very much. greeks were the best clarinet players - i could listen to vassilis saleas' clarinet playing for the rest of my life and not get bored. and there is nothing that is turkified or arabized about that music. it is 100% greek. granada is pretty far you're right. how about thessaloniki, athens, or constantinople though. still too far from yerevan? trust me i would much rather be listening to music in those places than the keyboard hell of yerevan. yerevan was a total sleepy town until less than a hundred years ago. until then constantinople and tiflis were the centers of armenian culture. that's why the music in yerevan is either russian influenced or keyboard garbage. people like tatoul altounian had to come from bolis to teach them armenian music. and let's not forget about gomidas (note the correct spelling) from kutahya and ganatchian from tekirdağ. can somebody tell the people in armenia that i don't want to listen to cello, violin, viola, trumpet, trombone, bassoon, piano, and all the other european symphony orchestra instruments the russians made soviet armenians play. nor do i want to listen to guitar-playing bob dylan and simon and garfunkel copycats, or r&b wannabes like hayko the eurovision clown. and i certainly don't want to listen to a keyboard that makes a kanun or a tar sound. that's what i hear from the bands that supposedly play armenian music and weddings and dances here in LA. everything keyboard. you want a kanun sound? then go learn the kanun, idiot. don't bring a stupid keyboard. until armenians stop selling out and start playing their own instruments i will listen to today's virtuosos of those instruments whether they be persian, greek, turkish, arab or whatever.

 

btw those instruments you mentioned are armenian true, but with the exception of kanun, zurna, and maybe saz, armenians in ottoman territory from the aegean to dikranagerd and van did not play tar, kamancha (which is persian kamancha), duduk etc. those are armenian-persian instruments. armenians in those areas played ud, kanun, violin, clarnet, etc (you can tell from old photos where they are also all wearing fezes), and in the cosmopolitan cities armenians were some of the best musicians on those instruments. in bolis, selanik, izmir they had kamancha but not the persian kamancha eastern armenians play. they had klasik kemence, which can also be very beautiful when played by a master. in the black sea area where my grandfather's side was from (trabzon, samsun, sinop) they have even a different kemence with a even more different sound, sevdzov/karadeniz kemence they call it. they also use the bagpipe there a lot (tulum they call it). when i went to hamshen and hopa i asked the hamshentsis i met what their music is like and they said it is heavily sevdzov kemence and tulum.

 

some real kanun playing:

 

this kid is just 20 yrs old. i doubt there is an armenian musician today that can play half as good as this:

 

and that is really sad because in the old days armenians were the best musicians on those instruments and were the teachers of all the turkish musicians. now days there are a hundred armenian rock bands but not a single decent kanun or saz player (please somebody if there is let me know). and you know why this is? it's because we have self-appointed culture police who know nothing about music like people in this forum going around kicking and screaming about everything turkish and arab, not realizing that if armenians get rid of everything that turks also have they will have lost a large part of their culture. who needs turks when armenians themselves destroy their own culture.

 

well at least it's not completely hopeless. here is ara dinkjian and arto tuncboyaciyan from a live performance in athens in 1995 with the greek singer eleftheria arvanitaki, playing TAMZARA with ara on the oud. it's kind of a large file but for our keyboard enthusiasts out there it's worth the wait: notice the COMPLETE ABSENCE OF ANY KEYBOARD:

 

http://putstuff.putfile.com/93769/1385557/3

Edited July 9, 2007 by kumkap

[MosJan]

your first point is good, your second one is another illogical and ignorant one. an instrument is not armenian unless sayat nova played it? (he might not have even been armenian, some say he was persian). then there would be only one armenian instrument (qyamancha).

 

 

haw many Persians do you know that have a name of HAROUTYUN ?? 0 ??

 

 

oud is an instrument that is used in armenian music, and there are many good examples of armenian music with oud, you just don't know about them obviously (maybe i'll start a new thread for oud). it's a thousand times more suitable to armenian music than guitar for example (for reasons i explained in another thread about the scales used in armen

 

armenian oud

 

did yo forget OUD.NET - one of the best oud masters

as far as i know - oud is not a Armenian instrument

The Accordion was also invented by an Armenian ( Viennese Cyril Damian, of Armenian descent who patented the accordion at Paris, on the 6th of May, 1829;) do we call Accordion an Armenian instrument ??

 

 

you have a bias against western armenian speakers. apparently that bias extends to anything common to western armenian culture as well. the fact that oud was popular among western armenians is what makes it not armenian to you. but while some of your points about language are fair, your musical knowledge is not so good. for example, in another thread you said:

 

 

 

please, write about it. the dance is called TAMZARA, which is a village between Sabin Karahisar and Giresun/Kerasounta in the Pontic Mountains (i've been there, it's a very tiny village that's easy to miss). TOMARZA is the village my grandmother was born in, it's near Gesaria/Kayseri. she played oud by the way. the reason you know the song is from tamzara and not tomarza is because the dance is in 9/8, which is a rhythm specific to pontic greek and laz music.

 

 

 

so the clarinet is kak too? you must not like greek music very much. greeks were the best clarinet players - i could listen to vassilis saleas' clarinet playing for the rest of my life and not get bored. and there is nothing that is turkified or arabized about that music. it is 100% greek. granada is pretty far you're right. how about thessaloniki, athens, or constantinople though. still too far from yerevan? trust me i would much rather be listening to music in those places than the keyboard hell of yerevan. yerevan was a total sleepy town until less than a hundred years ago. until then constantinople and tiflis were the centers of armenian culture. that's why the music in yerevan is either russian influenced or keyboard garbage. people like tatoul altounian had to come from bolis to teach them armenian music. and let's not forget about gomidas (note the correct spelling) from kutahya and ganatchian from tekirdağ. can somebody tell the people in armenia that i don't want to listen to cello, violin, viola, trumpet, trombone, bassoon, piano, and all the other european symphony orchestra instruments the russians made soviet armenians play. nor do i want to listen to guitar-playing bob dylan and simon and garfunkel copycats, or r&b wannabes like hayko the eurovision clown. and i certainly don't want to listen to a keyboard that makes a kanun or a tar sound. that's what i hear from the bands that supposedly play armenian music and weddings and dances here in LA. everything keyboard. you want a kanun sound? then go learn the kanun, idiot. don't bring a stupid keyboard. until armenians stop selling out and start playing their own instruments i will listen to today's virtuosos of those instruments whether they be persian, greek, turkish, arab or whatever.

 

Greeks do have good clarinet players, some of the best - yes the old Albert System Clarinets are mastered by them - but the best in my opinion are Romano gypsy clarinet players - if you dig deep enough you will find many Greek clarinet players that are GYPSY

 

be nice to Hayko

 

our Qanon and Turkish or egyptian Qanons are not the same - we have 2 sets of adjusters the rest have 3 set of adjusters

Armenian TAR is 100% Armenian Instrument - do some more research

Armenian Qyamancha is %100 Armenian instrument / most every Knee Fithels only have 3 strings - our Qyamancha has 4 / it was an Armenia master in Tibilecy Georgia that has added the 4th string - search the forum you will find 2 or 3 topics on Qyamancha

we even have a instrument named Qyamani & Qyamanchik

Qyamani was used By Gusan Sheram ( some say it had up to 9 strings ) only 4 are in existences now

Qyamanchik - is miniature Qyamancha - made in Yerevan Armenia - many of the parts on it are modern - it's sort of an Piccolo qyamancha

 

Santur is an Armenian instrument - we only have 2 who play this instrument - One is Sako he is in LA - ask your musician friends one of them will find his info - then he will show you all of the FACTS that it is Armenian instruments

 

 

Zurna - it's an instrument that has been and is used bay many - the sound of our Zurna is not the same as turkish / greek / persian zurnas - our zurna is much smaller - and has a high pitch

 

we also have a piccolo Zurna in key of C ( not used much this days ) - so total of 4 A - Ab Bb + Piccolo C - we have been working on a C zurna for close to 2 years ( do to my health problems it has been left in the shadows - i will finish it one day ) but now - will it be an Armenian zurna or American Armenian zurna ?? will - i'm an Armenian - but at the same time i'm making this instrument in USA ?? so it is an American Instrument

 

also Hamshna Zurna - we just reconsecrated one for a friend - it's more like a BASS ZURNA - much closer to others

 

 

btw those instruments you mentioned are armenian true, but with the exception of kanun, zurna, and maybe saz, armenians in ottoman territory from the aegean to dikranagerd and van did not play tar, kamancha (which is persian kamancha), duduk etc. those are armenian-persian instruments. armenians in those areas played ud, kanun, violin, clarnet, etc (you can tell from old photos where they are also all wearing fezes), and in the cosmopolitan cities armenians were some of the best musicians on those instruments. in bolis, selanik, izmir they had kamancha but not the persian kamancha eastern armenians play. they had klasik kemence, which can also be very beautiful when played by a master. in the black sea area where my grandfather's side was from (trabzon, samsun, sinop) they have even a different kemence with a even more different sound, sevdzov/karadeniz kemence they call it. they also use the bagpipe there a lot (tulum they call it). when i went to hamshen and hopa i asked the hamshentsis i met what their music is like and they said it is heavily sevdzov kemence and tulum.

 

some real kanun playing:

 

this kid is just 20 yrs old. i doubt there is an armenian musician today that can play half as good as this:

 

and that is really sad because in the old days armenians were the best musicians on those instruments and were the teachers of all the turkish musicians. now days there are a hundred armenian rock bands but not a single decent kanun or saz player (please somebody if there is let me know). and you know why this is? it's because we have self-appointed culture police who know nothing about music like people in this forum going around kicking and screaming about everything turkish and arab, not realizing that if armenians get rid of everything that turks also have they will have lost a large part of their culture. who needs turks when armenians themselves destroy their own culture.

 

if you need Kanon Player - look for TSovinar in LA - Varduhi IN Holywood

if you looking for a turkish saz player ( yes turkish SAZ is no Armenian Instrument ) - look for Suren Mehrabyan

 

 

 

well at least it's not completely hopeless. here is ara dinkjian and arto tuncboyaciyan from a live performance in athens in 1995 with the greek singer eleftheria arvanitaki, playing TAMZARA with ara on the oud. it's kind of a large file but for our keyboard enthusiasts out there it's worth the wait: notice the COMPLETE ABSENCE OF ANY KEYBOARD:

 

http://putstuff.putfile.com/93769/1385557/3

 

pure Armenia music is - free of any mughams

haw many songs do you know that are like that ??

wan Gomidas found the lost keys to our Armenian խազագիր (khazagir - sheet music ) - An Art that is as old as our nation - it has been lost for 400+ years, Gomidas VArdapet has found and cherished the KEY of խազագիր - in events of 1915 and time of him reseting in Europe - many of Gomidas works was lost - thens to GOD some of them have been found - and among them the key to խազագիր - In Matenadaran we have over 7000 խազագիրs - most of them are form BC - An Pegan Armenia Songs now you know way the Art of Armenian խազագիր was lost

now since we have the key to them խազագիր songs have been translated to modern Sheet music - so gave them some time and you just might have a pure Armenia song to listen to - till then have fun and no need to get personal

 

MOvses

[Arpa]

Dear Kumkap,

To save bandspace I will note quote any of your comments. It is obvious what I am referring to. It is obvious that you are a product of "kumkapi", i.e avaz dour/sand door". Get a life! Rediscover your native Armenian heritage. Forget all that "kumkapi/aya sofia sh**t

==

Btw. Despite your assumption, I was not born in Yerevan. I am a product of what you refer to as “western”. whatever, unlike you, I seem to know a little more about Middle Estern culture. Contrary of you, I can speak, read and write in both "eastern" and "western" vernaculars. Can you? If I could be so bold and suggest that we stop using terms like “western” and “eastern” and start using those non-PC words like “Turkish/ottoman” and “Russian/Tsarist” Armenian, maybe then we can talk more intelligently.

I do share your disdain of the “keyboard”. You are, no doubt speaking about the so called “Armenian bands” of LA, etc. I have been to Yerevan. You should too. Once you get over your hatred of those so called “eastern Armenians”, you get over of your love affair with everything west of Yerevan, and visit Yrevan to see what real Armenian culture is, and enjoy some real Armenian music, played with real traditional instruments. Not “oud”, which is undeniably an Arabic word meaning “stick”, which “el oud” found its way to Europe in the form of “lute/el ute”.

If you are saying that the oud is an Armenian instrument simply because some of the best players happened to be Armenian? That was because, beside the fact that the only instrument the turks knew was the instrument of death, not instruments of joy and culture in the Ottoman days, the Harem musicians had to be non-Muslims, and to protect the “modesty” of their concubines, they had to be blind as well. Did you know that Udi Hrant was blind?

http://www.oud.gr/hrant_1.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udi_Hrant_Kenkulian

You are doing such a good job committing virtual suicide right in our view. Don’t let us top you.

Next time you use words like “tulum” to describe the Armenian bagpipe/parkapzuk I will personally see that MosJan send his goons to teach you Armenian. Go to page 3 and see.

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10672&hl=bagpipe

Are you inferring , the fact that Greek are some of the best Clarinet players, then te clarinaet is a Greek instrument?

Denner Clarinet

http://inventors.about.com/od/cstartinvent.../a/Clarinet.htm

See who are some of the worlds’ best clarinet players. Klezmer Clarinet

http://www.klezmershack.com/bands/leverett...verett.art.html

And why Benny Goodmanmay have been one of the best? Look at Denner again.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/goodman.html

Is the clarinet te national instrument of Greece? Don’t show us how little you know. And since you invoked Thessalonika..

You seem to know so much about music and musicology. I don’t. Yet you seem to forget that Greek national instrument is not te “clarinet”

Bouzouki Thessaloniki

http://www.greek-bouzouki.com/index.php?home_en

As we saw above, the invention of te clarinet is attributed to te German Denner. Ye fact that te Arabs call that instrument “ghrnata/granada” maybe because they first saw that instrument in Grenada/Granada Spain, which incidentally means “granular” based on the fact tat main fruit of te region was te pomegranate/nour նուռ, nar/nour in Arabic which at times may mean fire or/light..

If you must question my disdain of the sound of oud and dumbak, go here and see what Siamanto said about it. look for his Dance/Par;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=5310&hl=siamanto

Can you read Armenian? Otherwise, please limit your posts to Greek and Turkish. Remember? This is HyeForum. Not TurkForum or Greek/PonticForum! Not to forget those who may think this is HryaForum.

As far as I am concerned, you can go drown yourself in the sewers of Istanbul, or Alabama-

with your "banjo/oud on your knees".

Do you know Armenian? Why don't you? And when you do will know that it is Komitas/Կոմիտաս not Gomidas/Գոմիդաս.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Arpa

[kumkap]

it's been some time since i had a chance to log in. things are getting testy in here!

 

You seem to know so much about music and musicology. I don’t.

thank you. you will keep your mouth shut from now on.

 

Do you know Armenian? Why don't you?

that is a bold assumption to make. if this were the case how am i able to read the armenian section of agos and the other istanbul armenian newspapers zhamanak and marmara that arrive at my house? how was i able to read the 900 page Յիշատակարան Էւէրէկ-ֆէնէսէի (Paris 1963) that I read before I actually visited the place in Cappadokia?

 

And when you do will know (sic) that it is Komitas/Կոմիտաս not Gomidas/Գոմիդաս

tell that to the gomidas institute (http://www.gomidas.org/)

 

I have been to Yerevan. You should too. Once you get over your hatred of those so called “eastern Armenians”, you get over of your love affair with everything west of Yerevan, and visit Yrevan to see what real Armenian culture is, and enjoy some real Armenian music, played with real traditional instruments. Not “oud”, which is undeniably an Arabic word meaning “stick”, which “el oud” found its way to Europe in the form of “lute/el ute”.

 

i have been to yerevan too. i was there for over two months, where i stayed with my mother's horaquyr's family in malatya-sepastia. i heard some very fine armenian music there to be sure, some of the best i've heard. however, please look at this picture:

 

 

this is a picture of a group called "spiritual sounds of central asia" that will performing at ucla royce hall. look at it closely because the instruments you see in that picture are exactly the same ones (tar, qyamancha, dhol, and yes duduk) that i saw musicians playing in armenia. and these are azerbaijani, uzbek, whatever whatever musicians. so next time an idiot like you tells me that armenian oud music is turkish and not real armenian music i will look at this picture and remember what a clown you are. traditional eastern armenian music is allowed to sound just like azeri music but western armenian music is not armenian at all because it has an oud in it.

 

visit Yrevan to see what real Armenian culture is, and enjoy some real Armenian music, played with real traditional instruments.

correction, that is eastern armenian culture, and those are eastern armenian/persian instruments you are talking about. btw real armenian music, is that what we're going to hear at the spirit of armenia concert at the hollywood bowl? since i'm boycotting the concert, can somebody tell me how many kanuns, tars, qyamanchas, and santurs you hear, versus the number of guitars, mandolins, and pianos/keyboards?

 

Not “oud”, which is undeniably an Arabic word meaning “stick”, which “el oud” found its way to Europe in the form of “lute/el ute”.

thank you for the music history lesson. and what language do you think qanun comes from?

 

beside the fact that the only instrument the turks knew was the instrument of death, not instruments of joy and culture in the Ottoman days, the Harem musicians had to be non-Muslims, and to protect the “modesty” of their concubines, they had to be blind as well. Did you know that Udi Hrant was blind?

really? i had no idea. i learn so much from you. every court musician was blind i guess. and udi hrant played in the sultan's palaces (though he lived after the fall of the ottoman empire). gimme a break. my cousin's father-in-law was friends with udi hrant in istanbul and i have his eagle-quill risha in my room. thanks. you want to know something else about hrant? he gave a concert in soviet armenia one time, to a packed audience that gave him a standing ovation. i respect people of that era's understanding of music, not yours.

 

you still did not convince me that armenian music can not be played on oud (remind me to make that armenian oud thread). and you did not pay attention to what i said, which was that oud is an instrument that is used in armenian music, just as other instruments we do not know the exact origins of are. so far as i can tell, it is not armenian to you simply because it was popular with western armenians. but as you know if you have heard some of udi hrant's oud playing, the oud can be a very soulful, melancholic instrument, and as such it is very apt instrument for expressing the grief and sorrow of the genocide survivor generation. you can not take the armenianness away from those people. besides najarian, whose website you showed, the best maker of ouds was onnik gharibyan, who was the student of the great greek maker manol. these are like the stradivarius of ouds.

 

Are you inferring , the fact that Greek are some of the best Clarinet players, then te clarinaet is a Greek instrument?...Is the clarinet te national instrument of Greece?

it doesn't need to be for the greeks to play it. it is a staple of the greek, especially rembetika music. that is my whole point.

 

Next time you use words like “tulum” to describe the Armenian bagpipe/parkapzuk I will personally see that MosJan send his goons to teach you Armenian.

boo hoo. i used a non-armenian word to describe something. maybe you should send him over to yerevan and have him teach them to say harts chiga instead of problem chqa, aghpaman instead of zibili vedro, baghbaghag instead of marozhni, and so on and so on.

 

anyway, be careful what you say about my kind. we are the ones who built all the churches here in LA, fresno, detroit, boston, new york, and we are the ones singing the sharagans on sunday mornings while you guys are going around gangbanging in glendale and burbank to rabiz music and the women come to church dressed as sluts. we are the reason why in the places where your kind have not yet brought the mafia thug culture of hayastan armenians still have a good reputation. and we are the reason (kerkorian - not grigorian, manougian-simone, najarians) people in hayastan have roads to drive on and schools to go to, otherwise probably the whole country would have left by now. they say there are 50,000 migrants from hayastan in istanbul and other parts of turkey now. instead of helping them like they are now maybe the bolsahyes should give them the same treatment armenians from greece, syria, lebanon, etc. received when they tried to immigrate to their "homeland" in the 40s and 50s. since just like they do wherever else they go they are ruining the good reputation armenians have worked to build over a long period there, it would be a great satisfaction to see them all turned over to the turkish police and sent back where they came from. maybe they can do that to you and the rest of your ilk too.

 

bye!

Edited July 27, 2007 by kumkap