abass80 Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 BBC News Russian Church ends 80-year split The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad has reunited with the Russian Orthodox Church after 80 years of schism sparked by the Bolshevik revolution. The move was sealed by Patriarch Alexy II and the head of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, Metropolitan Lavry, at an elaborate ceremony in Moscow. Reunification talks began after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. But some clergy abroad are rejecting the move. They say that many priests in Russia collaborated with Communists. Long road Alexy II and Metropolitan Lavry signed the reunification agreement in a ceremony at the Christ the Saviour Cathedral in Moscow. "By this act, canonical communion within the local Russian Orthodox Church is hereby restored," the act said. Russian President Vladimir Putin attended the ceremony, shown live on television. Talks to re-establish ties between the Russian Orthodox Church in exile and its mother church began soon after the collapse of the USSR, which ignited a revival of organised religion in Russia. A major step was reached when Church leaders in Moscow elevated the murdered Tsar Nicholas II and his family to the status of sainthood in 2000, the BBC's religious affairs correspondent Mike Lanchin reports. In 2006, the Russian Orthodox Church allowed the remains of the tsar's mother to be reburied in St Petersburg. One of the last sticking points was disagreement over who would own the extensive property in the hands of the exiled church in the US, Europe and even Israel. The agreement is that these remain as they are, our correspondent says. The exiles also retain control over the appointment of their own priests. Schism The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad owes its origin to the civil war - which followed the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 and ended with the victory of the militantly atheist Communists over the monarchist Whites. Exiled bishops and clerics proclaimed the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad at a meeting in Serbia in 1922 - later relocating to the United States. It cut all ties with its mother church in 1927, after the leader of the church in Russia, Patriarch Sergiy, declared loyalty to the Communists. The New York-based Church says it has nearly 500,000 members. The Moscow Patriarchate counts nearly 70% of Russia's population of about 142 million as its members. gark@ mezi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurocentric Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Congratulations to Russkis for this very wise and important decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaitka Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Congratulations to Russkis for this very wise and important decision. Congratulations are accepted! Will pass them on to V. V. Putin first thing tomorrow morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Our churches gotta bury our hatchet and unite. I hope this Russian unification will be a good example for our church as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abass80 Posted May 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 don't forget that the russians have a strong leader like putin who can make the impossible things possible (even if he sometimes upsets some ppl) and bring all sides on the table. unfortunately we do not have a strong leader that will go up against the tashnags and make them consider the option of a unification! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 don't forget that the russians have a strong leader like putin who can make the impossible things possible (even if he sometimes upsets some ppl) and bring all sides on the table. unfortunately we do not have a strong leader that will go up against the tashnags and make them consider the option of a unification! It's useless to have separate ones now because the USSR is gone we have an Armenia. Anyway I think the upcoming generation won't really care about this church business and will in the end just be one. Christianity's influence (especially in diaspora) is fading I find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 The question is will the Tashnag Party let go of the Church of Cilicia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abass80 Posted May 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 i don't think that they will my friend! they use the church to get political power in different communities and they will not let it go! katsin canadaii mech tem patsin! what is the purpose of doing that other than splliting the community? mek tem@ pavarar cher? aitkan shad en hayer@ canada-i mech vor yegeghetsiin mech chen paver? :angry: aisdegh ashkhar@ archev gerta gor yev ter irenk antsiali skhalneren chen sorvatz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Abas80, When they opened the diocese there in Canada it was just another blow to church unity. They have even tried to take the lease of there church here in Fresno,though this is what I heard only from word of mouth though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abass80 Posted May 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 i wish i could say that they r doing this because of wrong planning! but unfortunately that is not the case here. i'm afraid that they know exactly what the consequences of this kind of actions are but they still go and pursue their own agenda! i just hope that they change their party policy somewhere in the near future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemainFaithful Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 i wish i could say that they r doing this because of wrong planning! but unfortunately that is not the case here. i'm afraid that they know exactly what the consequences of this kind of actions are but they still go and pursue their own agenda! i just hope that they change their party policy somewhere in the near future! What if the Tashnags get hold of Echmiadzin, would the Cilician and Echmiadzin Catholicosates unite? Is that possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 That would never happen.The Armenians from Armenia don't really like Tashnags very much. Here in Fresno there is maybe one or two Hyestansi families who goes to the Cilician Church and one might leave it and start coming to ours. They don't feel accepted by them for one reason or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abass80 Posted May 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 What if the Tashnags get hold of Echmiadzin, would the Cilician and Echmiadzin Catholicosates unite? Is that possible? first of all no one can get hold of Echmiadzin! Echmiadzin is the mother see, center of Christianity in Armenia, and if there will be any holding that will be done by Echmiadzin! Echmiadzin has tried to bring the 2 Catholicosates closer in the past! after the death of Vasgen I, Echmiadzin made a decision (a decision that was not in the best of interest for Echmiadzin, but was for the nation) and appointed Karekin I, the Catholicos of Cilicia at the time, as the Catholicos of Echmiadzin and of all Armenians! that decision was made because the ppl who were leading Echmiadzin thought that by this move they will bring the two Catholicosates closer, and maybe lead to a unificaton of the church! unfortunately they were mistaken! Antilias (and the tashnags, who r the political force behind Antelias) proved that they r not in favor of a unification. they thought, and still think, that it is of their best interest to keep the churches separated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurocentric Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Well they're not really separate, Antelias is officialy subordinate to Echmiadzin but they are autonomous essentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemainFaithful Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Well they're not really separate, Antelias is officialy subordinate to Echmiadzin but they are autonomous essentially. I didn't quite get it: "officialy subordinate,...but autonomous essentially." How is Antelias Catholicosate officially subordinate, and how is it autonomous? Can you give examples and further explain? An ample and thorough explanation would be satisfactory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 The Catholicos in Echmidzin I think goes by the title of "Amenayn Hayots Gatoghigos" or Catholicos of all-Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Echmiadzin is the Mother See and the Catholicos in Armenia is the Supreme Patriarch and Catholicos of all Armenians. Cilician See is essentially the Patriarchate of the last Armenian Kingdom. They have full administrative authority over the church, just like any other autonomous church. When it comes to hierarchy, the Cilician Patriarch is what he is - a Patriarch of Cilicia, just like the Patriarchs of Jerusalem and Constantinople. There are no theological or liturgical differences just administrative divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abass80 Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 The Catholicos of Echmiadzin is the "Amenain Hayots Gadoghigos" but the one of Cilicia also goes by the title of Gadoghigos. Maybe they r not yet ready to lose that title and become a Patriarchate like Jerusalem and Constantinople! There is a turkish saying "hayeroun tserk@ zenk dour yev mek had ator. atorin hamar irar g'@spanen."! That is true in this case also! They do not want to give away the big chair and replace it with a smaller one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemainFaithful Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 As much as I am interested in theories and "should be"'s, I am also interested in the pragmatic and the practical, and what is really happening on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abass80 Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 at the moment nothing is happening on the ground! each catholicosate goes it's own way (each pursuing it's own agenda) and the disturbing part is that there r no signs of anything changing in the near future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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