Harut Posted January 29, 2002 Report Share Posted January 29, 2002 ok, where do those two words come from? "humor" and "heros" are popular words in many European languages, but what is the origin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted February 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 people, why are you ignoring this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheram Comfort Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Barev Harut, I saw you frustration about not having someone reply to your request, so I will try to help. Please know that I am by no means an etymologist, so I just did what you should do next time you want to know about a word in english, namely looked it up online! If you look up your word in www.dictionary.com, they will have the etymology (the origins of the word) as part of the definition. humour/humur: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=humour&r=2 hero: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=hero&r=2 Hopefully this is what you were looking for. Sheram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Harut:people, why are you ignoring this one? Dear Harut,We were not ignoring you. I was waiting for others to respond.Sheram did an excellent job, those sites answer your questions compeletly and correctly. I just would like to add that some sources define "humor" as "tramadrutyun", mood and as to its "humorous" meaning- "ergitsakan", "zaveshtakan".Here is another twist to the story.=============Hero and Leander in MythLeander was a youth of Abydos, a town of the Asian side of the strait which separates Asia and Europe. On the opposite shore, in the town of Sestos, lived the maiden Hero, a priestess of Aphrodite. Leander loved her, and used to swim the strait nightly to enjoy the company of his mistress, guided by a torch which she reared upon the tower for the purpose. But one night a tempest arose and the sea was rough; his strength failed, and he was drowned. The waves bore his body to the European shore, where Hero became aware of his death, and in her despair cast herself down from the tower into the sea and perished. from Bulfinch's Mythology ==================Oddly enough the Hero in this myth is the girl and Leander is a boy. I would have guessed otherwise.Here is where the fun starts. There is a fable in Armenian literature that is an exact parallel to this story(I wonder if the author got the idea from here). I leave it for others to guess what it is and perhaps even paste it here. A hint; it is by H. Toumanian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Arpa:Dear Harut,We were not ignoring you. I was waiting for others to respond.Ditto. quote:Leander loved her, and used to swim the strait nightly to enjoy the company of his mistress, guided by a torch which she reared upon the tower for the purpose. But one night a tempest arose and the sea was rough; his strength failed, and he was drowned. The waves bore his body to the European shore, where Hero became aware of his death, and in her despair cast herself down from the tower into the sea and perished. from Bulfinch's Mythology ==================Oddly enough the Hero in this myth is the girl and Leander is a boy. I would have guessed otherwise.Here is where the fun starts. There is a fable in Armenian literature that is an exact parallel to this story(I wonder if the author got the idea from here). I leave it for others to guess what it is and perhaps even paste it here. A hint; it is by H. Toumanian.The story about Akhtamar Island on Lake Van? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark:The story about Akhtamar Island on Lake Van?Very good TB!And now just for that you get a bonus.Here is something I had written some time ago.The Armenian text may appear as gibnberish as I have not yet fugured out how to transmit Armenian text. I deleted most of the Armenian text, someone may transmit it in the original Armenian. I would urge moderators/managers to move this item to another topic line if they deem so.==== Ú²ÔÂ-²Ø²ð, INVINCIBLE FORTRESS AGHT-AMAR, HAGHT-AMAR, INVINCIBLE FORTRESS I typed the Armenian. The English translation, as you will seeis by the author below, I found it on the internet. There may be manytranslations, I found this to be poetically executed yet litarally trueto the original just as in spirit. A word about the spelling. Poetic license is a forgivable sin, therefor we will forgive Hovannes for spelling it to fit his purpose. Although the Island is known as Aghtamar the master bard, who is equally loved for his wit, spells it as aKH-Tamar and he leaves it to the readers'imagination.Of course, we know that the romanticised poem is just that, romanticised, just as it is highly romantic.================ AKHTAMAR ²Ê²زðHovannes Tumanyan 1891 Yerevan -1995 IRMA SAFRAZBEKYAN compiled the book AKHTAMAR Beside the laughing lake of Van A little hamlet lies; Each night into the waves a man Leaps under darkened skies. He cleaves the waves with mightly arm, Needing no raft or boat, And swims, disdaining risk and harm, Towards the isle remote. On the dark island burns so bright A piercing, luring ray: There's lit a beacon every night To guide him on his way. Upon the island is that fire Lit by Tamar the fair; Who waits, all burning with desire, Beneath the shelter there. The lover's heart-how doth it beat! How beat the roaring waves! But, bold and scorning to retreat, The elements he braves. And now Tamar the fair doth hear, With trembling heart aflame, The water splashing-oh, so near, And fire consumes her frame. All quiet is on the shore around, And, black,there looms a shade: The darkness utters not a sound, The swimmer finds the maid. The tide-waves ripple, lisp and splash And murmur, soft and low; They urqe each other, mingle, clash, As, ebbing out, they go. Flutter and rustle the dark waves. And with them every star Whispers how sinfully behaves The shameless maid Tamar; Their whisper shakes her throbbing her This time,as was before! The youth into the waves doth dart, The maiden prays on shore. But certain villians, full of spite, Against them did conspire, And on a hellish, mirky night Put out the guiding fire. The luckless lover lost his way, And only from afar The wind is carrying in his sway The moans of:"Ah, Tamar!" And through the night his voice is heard Upon the craggy shores, And, though it's muffled and blurred By the waves' rapid roars, The words fly forward-faint they are- "Ah, Tamar!" And in the morn the splashing tide The hapless yough cast out, Who,battling with the waters, died In an unequal bout; Cold lips are clenched, two words they bare "Ah, Tamar!" And ever since, both near and far, They call the island Akhtamar Translated by V. Rogov=============The following is by me;The origin of the name "Aghtamar" has been the subject of many debates.It may be opportune to mention here that Aghtamar is the Island and notthe cathedral upon it. There are several structures on the Island, themost famous of them being the church of Holy Cross, Sourb Khach. The Island of Aghtamar is one of the several islands, albeit the largestand the best known. It is part of a quartet of Islands, the others beingLim, Ktoutz and Arter.First the ridiculous. The Turks call the Island "Ak Damar", to make it sound like "whitevein/artery". Even more ridiculous is the notion that Mt. Masis, Ararat,is the "mountain of pain" as it is known as Agri Dagh in the Turkish.The latter is nothing but a turkification and corruption of thealternate Armenian name Aghori/Aghori Ler. This is corroborated by thestill discernible ruins of the Village of Aghori at the foot of theMountain.Some time ago I had advanced the theory that "Aghtamar" may have been a variation of the original name of the temple (church) "aghot-a-mayr", the "mother of prayer" and that the island was known by the mainstructure. I admit that the preceeding takes quite a stretch of imagination. Yet, if the Turks would call our sacred mountain the"Mountain of Pain" and get away with....! Why can't we?However, on further reading, I may have stumbled on a better theory. While searching the Aremnian etymological dictionary, trying to find the connection of "aght", it all became clear. "aght" is a variation of theword "haght". We commonly use the word as in "haghtel", to win, to vanquish. The root word, "aght/haght" is of original Armenian, via Urartian to mean "big", "high", "brave", "powerful". We know that the Latin "L" transliterates to "gh" in the Armenian, therefor consider the Latin word "alt/altus", as in "altitude" or "exalted". ChancellorAdenaur would have been happy to know that his nickname would be Ter Haghte in Armenian (Der Alte).As to the second part of name "amar". The word has connection to the modern Arabic/Persian, probably original Aramaic. It means "to build", "building". Even the Turks use it. They call Sinan the ArchitectMi'mar Sinan to mean "builder". One variation of the word in Armenian makes even more sense, "amrotz" in Armenian means"fortress/fortification". Another common word that we often use is "amour" to mean "firm", "strong", the connection here is hard to miss. Not to forget that "aght/haght" also implies "invincible" (although in common usage we sometimes use it in its redundant form- "an-haght".Put the two together- "aght-amar" and you get"invincible-structure/building". It is attested that Aghtamar has been afortress island going back to antiquity therefor we will dwell on thefact that the appellation is none other than "[h]aght-amar" i.e. "invincible fort[ress]". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 The Armenian text may appear as gibberish as I have not yet fugured out how to transmit Armenian text. I deleted most of the Armenian text, someone may transmit it in the original Armenian".=========Surprise, surprise!!!The Armenian text did transmit, so here is the rest. AKHTAMAR ²Ê²زð ÌÇͳճËÇï ì³Ý³ ÍáíÇöáùñÇÏ ·ÛáõÕÇó ³é³÷ÝÛ³ÌáíÝ ¿ ÙÁïÝáõÙ ·³Õï³·áÕÇ²Ù¿Ý ·Çß»ñ ÙÇ ïÁÕ³£ ÌáíÝ¿ ÙïÝáõÙ ³é³Ýó ݳí³Ï,´³½áõÏÝ»ñáí ³éݳóÇæáõñÁ ×áÕ÷áõÙ, ÉáÕ ¿ ï³ÉǸ»åÇ ÏÁÕ½ÇÝ ¹ÇÙ³óÇ£ ʳí³ñ ÏÕ½áõó å³ñ½ áõ å³ÛͳéØÇ ÉáõÛë ϳÝãáõÙ ¿ ÝÁñ³Ý,ØÇ í³é ÷³ñáë ÝÁñ³ ѳٳñ,âÁÙáÉáñÇ Çñ ׳ٵ³Ý£ êÇñáõÝ Â³Ù³ñÝ ³Ù»Ý ·Çß»ñ²ÛÝï»Õ ÏÁñ³Ï ¿ ³ÝáõÙ,ºí Áëå³ëáõÙ ¿ ³Ýѳٵ»ñ²ÛÝï»Õ° ÙáïÇÏ ¹³ñ³ÝáõÙ£ ÌÁ÷áõÙ ¿ ÍáíÝ ³É»Í³Í³Ý,ÌÁ÷áõÙ ¿ ëÇñïÁ ïÁÕÇ.¶áéáõÙ ¿ ÍáíÝ ³Ñ»Õ³Ó³ÛÝ,ܳ ÏÁéíáõÙ ¿ ϳï³ÕÇ£ ºí ³ٳñÁ ëñï³ïñá÷²ñ¹»Ý ÉÁëáõÙ ¿ ÙáïÇÏæÁñÇ ×áÕ÷ÛáõÝ, áõ áÕç Ù³ñÙÝáíêÇñáõó ³ÚñíáõÙ ¿ ë³ëïÇÏ£ ÈÁé»ó£ ÌáíÇ Ë³í³ñ ³÷ÇÝγݷݻó ë»õ-ë»õ ÙÇ Áëïí»ñ...²Ñ³ »õ ݳ... Çñ³ñ ·Áï³Ý...γëϳͳíáñ Éáõñ ·Çß»ñ... ØdzÛÝ ³ÉÇùÁ ì³Ý³ ÍáíÇØ»ÕÙ ¹ÇåçáõÙ »Ý »½»ñùÇݺõ Ñ»ÕÑ»ÕáõÏ Ñ»é³ÝáõÙ »ÝÞñßáõÝçÝ»ñáí ³ÝÙ»ÏÇÝ£ ÜÁñ³Ýù ³ë»ë ÷ë÷ëáõÙ »Ý...àõ ³ëïÕ»ñÁ ϳٳñÇó²ÏݳñÏÝ»ñáí µ³Ùµ³ëáõÙ »ÝÈÇñµ, ³Ý³Ùáà ³ٳñÇó... ´³Ùµ³ëáõÙ »Ý ÏáõëÇ ëÁñïáõÙ...ij٠¿ ³ñ¹»Ý... áõ ÏÁñÏÇÝØÇÝÝ ³É»ÏáÍ ÍáíÝ ¿ ÙÁïÝáõÙ,ØÛáõëÝ ³ÕáÃáõÙ »½»ñùÇÝ... ´³Ûó ÙÇ ³Ý·³Ù ã³ñϳ٠ٳñ¹ÇÏÜÁñ³Ýó ·³ÕïÝÇùÝ ÇÙ³ó³Ý,ÈáõÛëÁ ѳݷóñÇÝ ë»õ áõ ë³ëïÇÏØÇ Ùáõà ·Çß»ñ ¹Çí³Ï³Ý£ ØáÉáñí»ó³í ˳í³ñ ÍáíáõÙÈáÕáñ¹ ïÁÕ³Ý ëÇñ³Ñ³ñ,àõ µ»ñáõÙ ¿ ÑáÕÙ, µ»ñáõÙ,гé³ç³ÝùÝ»ñÝ- °²Ë, ³ٳñ...° Øáï ¿ Ó³ÛÝÁ. ë»õ ˳í³ñáõÙ,ijÛé»ñÇ ï³Ï ë»å³ó³Í,àõñ ³Ù»ÑÇ ÍáíÝ ¿ ·áéáõÙ,Ø»ñà ÏáñãáõÙ¿ ËÁɳó³Í,àõ Ù»ñà ÉÁëíáõÙ áõųëå³é, þ²Ë, ³ٳñ...þ ²é³íáïÛ³Ý ÍáíÁ ÍÁ÷³ó,²÷Á ÓÁ·»ó ÙÇ ¹Ç³Ï,ÜÁñ³ ßáõñÃÇÝ, å³Õ, ϳñϳٳÍ,²ë»ë Ù»é³Í ųٳݳÏê³é»É ¿ÇÝ »ñÏáõ µ³é. þ²Ë ³ٳñ...þ ²ÛÝ ûñí³ÝÇó ëÁñ³ ѳٳñÎÁÕ½ÇÝ Ïáãí»ó þ²Ëóٳñþ£Hovannes Tumanyan 1891 [ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Garo ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted February 14, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2002 thank you Sheram and Arpa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheram Comfort Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 Harut, you are welcome. I also would like to thank Arpa for another interesting and quite informative reply! Sheram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 http://www.armenpress.am/eng/news/news.htm AHKTAMAR FILM RELEASED YEREVAN, JUNE 24, ARMENPRESS: The Yerevan-based Moskva cinema house will screen on June 27 the first showing of a new film, called Akhtamar, based on the same name poem by Armenian poet Hovhanes Tumanian. The music is composed by an Istanbul-based Armenian composer Sirvard Garamanuk. The film is about a young man, who attempting to cross the water to get to his lover Tamar, living on an island in the middle of Lake Van (in Turkey) ultimately succumbs to the waves in the night, "after their secret love was revealed by some jealous enemies, who put down the light, that served for him as a beacon and all frustrated were his hopes to see the familiar light in the dark. Pulling all his strength together, in vain he tried to find his way". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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