A question to Arpa

[gamavor]

It is about ach (right) and tzakh (left). In English the word for “right” (meaning side) and “right” used as – correct or righteous, true or factual coincide. Same is in Russian,: prav, pravii.. My amateur linguistic study have shown that Russian in that case is rather an exception compared to other Slavonic languages. In Armenian we have different words for left and right and straight – “ughigh”. What is interesting is that “right” besides direction or side means - correct. Well, “left” on the other hand doesn’t mean incorrect.

Could it be that most things in nature are ascribed to be right and therefore “right”( sea-shells are twisted to the right”), or could it be because of the functions of the human brain. Most people use their right hand to perform daily manual operations, and because of that doing something with the right hand is “right”.

In the ancient past there were three languages which were universal and sanctioned by the Church – Latin, Greek and Hebrew. Armenian at that times was an active language but was not given that special universalism. As far as I know same right “right” concept is employed in Latin, Greek and Hebrew.

One can draw a conclusion that right “right” is typical for ancient languages, but then what about English, which is considered to be young, and what about Armenian, which is definitely ancient.

 

I thing the Armenian's way i.e. having a special word to describe right (ach) for side or direction is much better and from 3D+time point of view more accurate.

[Arpa]

Kamavor, you are a sinister person

You come out off the "left field".

I hope I can still stay on your "right side"

First my spelling/transliteration of your nickname with the K rather than the G. As you will see further down I will spell the other words as "aj" and "dzakh". I try to comply to the original Mesropian transliteration and pronunciation. Have I said that the eastern system is right/correct/ughigh/jisht? If we spell "right" as "ach", with the stronger ch the word will appear to mean ach as in achq, "eye", and if we spell dzakh as tsakh it will appear to mean tsakh as in tsakh-avel, brush/brush broom (brush as in dried branches of bushes, not unlike the bramble bushes of the American desert.

 

It is about ach (right) and tzakh (left). In English the word for “right” (meaning side) and “right” used as –correct or righteous, true or factual coincide. Same is in Russian,: prav, pravii.. My amateur linguistic study have shown that Russian in that case is rather an exception compared to other Slavonic languages. In Armenian we have different words for left and right and straight – “ughigh”. What is interesting is that “right” besides direction or side means - correct. Well, “left” on the other hand doesn’t mean incorrect.

 

Please refer to two of my previous articles about these subjects. One has the title of "Ortho/Jus,tOuhgigh/Jisht" of May 10, 2002 and the other about "aj/dzakh" which I cannot locate now. An aside. Your nickname is based on the Armenian word "kam", "will" in English(in this sense what does "kamavor" really mean?, Willful?). Consider the Lord's prayer where we read, "Yeghitsin kamq qo"/ Thy will be done" (kamq in this case is the plural of "kam".(No, I don't mean "nail", that would have to be correctly transliterated as "gam".)

When I said sinister above I was not trying to be sinister, evil. I'm sure you have come across former students of Catholic schools. I have met several of them, some of them hate and the experience, specially the left handed ones. They tell horror stories of how the nuns would punsih them, spank them and hit their knuckles with the sharp edge of the ruler for being left handed, sinister, evil, sinful and worse. It all comes from superstition that predates even the Christian era. How many references can you find in the scriptures alluding to "the right side of God" etc. Or even in everyday language things like "to get on the right side of..."

To make it short, the Latin word that means "left"(side) has entered other European languages to mean evil, sinful. "Sinister" is an inocent word that simply means "left" in Latin. The English word "left" from the ME left/lift, and the AS lyft/left, both based on the origial meaning of weak, worthless. While the word for "right" comes from the ME "riht" to mean right, true, straight. It is akin to the Greek "recht/recto/rectify". The Latin for that is "dexter". Look at the way we use it in English, like "dexterous", deft, agile etc, while the left(hand) is supposed to mean clumsy. Add to this the French equivalents gauche, literally left but also inferred as clumsy while "droit" means right in both senses as correct and just, "iravunk". "adroit" used both in French and English means dexterous the opposite of clumsy.

Could it be that most things in nature are ascribed to be right and therefore “right”( sea-shells are twisted to the right”), or could it be because of the functions of the human brain. Most people use their right hand to perform daily manual operations, and because of that doing something with the right hand is “right”.

In the ancient past there were three languages which were universal and sanctioned by the Church – Latin, Greek and Hebrew. Armenian at that times was an active language but was not given that special universalism. As far as I know same right “right” concept is employed in Latin, Greek and Hebrew. One can draw a conclusion that right “right” is typical for ancient languages, but then what about English, which is considered to be young, and what about Armenian, which is definitely ancient.

 

Armenians having a long standing culture also share in the superstitions cited above. Without going deep into the etymology both "aj/right" and "dzakh/left" are native Armenian words and as above are used alternately to designate directions yet also reflect the sinister aspects of the words. Dazkhogh, dzakhord, dzakhoghil all having to do with "failure" while "(h)ajogh" (the h was added later) and many variations thereof allude to "success"

 

I thing the Armenian's way i.e. having a special word to describe right (ach) for side or direction is much better and from 3D+time point of view more accurate.

Me?

I am not superstitious, I have trouble believing even in the not so superstitious aspects of "folklore". Speaking of superstition, why do we say "bless you/gesuntheit" or, in the Armenian case, cross our faces when we sneeze?

As a physician do you prescribe medicine or do you recommend exorcism?

[gamavor]

Arba (Arpa), first let me tell you that you are a great asset to Hye Forum.

I was almost sure that you will “touch” the “sinister” issue. I have to correct myself because it appears that “sinister”, as an origin for “left” does mean incorrectness in a different way (no political context here, just pure observations). As a personal quality, - again you are right. I’m sinister, but I guess this is the toll one should pay for being tall, young and handsome!

[MosJan]

Arpa jan i need help on finding the Armenian name for MUGHAM us in music - thats is Mugham is not Armenian.

 

YelevejaXar - HnchyunaXar - ? chgitem chem karoranum mi konkret mi ban gtnel.

Thanks

 

Movses

[Arpa]

Hayemyes is probably best qualified to tackle this question as he lists music and Armenian Music as his interests.

Thank you Hayemyes for the below transmission, title; "Nugam" in Music topic.

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In the X-IX centuries B.C., during the leadership of Midia, around the lake Urmia, the Mugs, being ancient Azerbaijan tribes, living in Mugan, were spreading out their scientific knowledge in palaces, among the people and were involved in music. Nizami Ganjavi, (1141-1209) stating, that the Mugs were musicians, writes in his «Igbalname»: «Singer, pla an ancient melody. Play some Mugan melody like the Mugs». According to this, we can say that Mugam melodies first appeared in the territory of Mugan. The music critics of Iran, Arabian countries and also other countries, making investigations of mugam state, that mugam had been widely spread out in Sasani times (III-VII centuries) and mugams were played in the form of «destgah», which means in groups. As the most talented musicians of the time were working in the palaces, that is why mugams were created by these artists there.

=========

We will take the above at face value but my search has pointed to another direction. I wonder if the writer is taking the liberty to draw on another word that sounds very much like Mugam, that is Mugan (note the N ending). The latter is a plain in Azerbaijan in the Kur valley.

 

Otherwise "mugham" points to "magham", "makham", "makam","maqam" which simply means "tune". It also points to its Arabic origin as the word is still used to mean "tune", it is probably of Arabic origin as the word structure is compatible with the Arabic. (Another source also indicates that "maqam" means standing, order of things, which also makes sense as the "maqam" is based "qoum/qam", to rise, to stand. Jesus speaking Aramaic said; "Dalita qoumi" to mean "Dalita, rise, stand up")

 

According to an Armenian source "mugham" is a musical style that is best practiced and represented in Azeri music. It infers to extemporaneous, ad lib and improvisation. There doesn't seem to be a single Armenian word to describe except it can be best compared to the jam session of jazz musicians, almost like a contest when each musician will pick up and improvise. Such terms as "anpatrasti horinum" etc. are used to decribe the genre, and it is also compared to the Slavic/Russian "lad" genre. The source having not found a single Armenian word to describe the style almost concludes that the closest word would be "horinum"(composition). It also suggests the word "improvisatsia" which best describes the situation, we know that this word is not native Armenian, but then again neither is "mugham".

Conclusion; If we must stick to pure Armenian it would be "horinum", otherwise "improvisaatsi/improvisation" would do quite well.

[MosJan]

Shnorhakal em Arpa jan

yes inqs mi qani HAvelumner unem verstin dzer kartsikin yev parzabanman@,

Mugham - Armat@ da uni Parskakan tsagum yev shat aveli mets taratsum e unetsel iynter, nuynisk Mughami anvanumner@ parskeren en, Rasti ( Siraharneri HAndipum ) Jorgya, ....

Mugham@ da mek kormits Improvizatsya e sakayn nayev uni ir orenqner@, voronq dareri @edhatskum hrrkvats yev hastatvats en.

verchin 50 tarineri @edhskum Murgam@ gtel e ir tun@ mer harevan adrbejanum, ur iyn kich te shat dzevapoxvel e. sakayn n@ra himq@ mnum e Parskakan yev hamarvel e Parskakan Pilisopayutyun, kam mijagetki pilisopayutyun yerashtutyan mej.

 

chnayats vro parskakan e yev mets gortsatsum uni adrbejanakan yerashtutyan mej, sakayn mughami mets yev amenalav Gortsiqayin Katarorner@ yerel en yev kan Hayer@, sakayn mez mot iyn @endunvats dzev che yergi mej, Bayati iysinqen yergichi kormist chen katarvum, iyl yerashtakan gortsiknerov. jisht e Rabizi mej kan yergichner voronq portsel en ogtvel BAyati - sakayn hajeli mi ban che

 

inch verabervum e improvizatsyain, hnaravor varkats e, sakayn iyn improvizatsya e hnchum arajin angam:) dranist heto iyn krknvum e voch miyayn ir horinori kormist iyl nayev urishneri.

 

Horinum - DziynaXar - HnchuynaXar -

Portsem mer Yerajisht MAestroneri het zrutsel yev tesnel te n@ranq inch kasen.

MOvses