Who Were Urartians? Are We Decendants Of Urartians?

[hagopn]

Onjig, Good man! You found the main misconception that our "Urartuans" have. Yes, indeed, the Behistun trilingual evidence is actualy in support of the fact that Urartu (a concoction and intentional mispronunciation of Ararat) is one and same with Armenia.

 

It is the same phenomenon of fishing for different identities in Nairi (Assyrian sources denoting greater Armenia) and Hayassa (Hittite sources denoting Armenia). The pseudo-academia still pretends that Nairi is different from Hayassa. Simple algebra says that if Hittites did not also use Nairi as reference to Armenia and the Assyrians did not use Hayassa as reference to Armenia, there is something missing. It is more likely that these names refer to the same entity used by different ethnicities at different times from different perspectives!

 

The same goes with Armenia/Urashtu. It is not Urartu, but Urashtu on the Behistun rock. Urashtu most probably means "land of fire" in IE, indo-iranian, and more probably Armenian. Armenians are said to have borrowed the term Ashtanak, աշտանակ, աշտ - fire, perhaps "starlight" as well according to some scholars - as the root, http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D4%B1%D5%B7%D5%BF%D5%A1%D5%B6%D5%A1%D5%AF

 

The main problem with this "borrowing from Pahlavi" jamboree that began with Hubschmann/Ajarian, is that Pahlavi was a language that itself borrowed heavily from Avestani, which in turn is a language that is rooted in Armenia.

 

NOTE: My copy of Hovik Nersesian's book on Zoroaster is floating somewhere in Yerevan. I lent it to a former Marxist/Leninist. The "book thief is no criminal" reflex took him over, I suppose. My mistake. I would appreciate it if someone could point me to an existing copy.

 

Arpa's literacy argument has been argued against in the Basques and Armenian forum. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=57752&p=314863

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

As to the banal "Urartuan was cunieform therefore not Armenian", Gavoukjian responded to that as far back as 1975 in his initial article published in "Garun Monthly." Has anyone missed the Artashesian hellenistic period when Armenian was also written with Greek characters? Are we that desperate to maintain the Trained Monkey Status Quo in order to feel "special" that we are "not of this nationalist sort, but balanced huiman beings." How "balanced" is it to be imbalanced about one's identity to the point of avoiding facts that counters the so-called mainstream (that does not actually exist)?

 

Gavoukjian rightly so says that much as the majority of the region, Urartuans used a diplomatic language for their public records, their inscriptons. In this case, it was the Hurrian language used by MIttanni, which still means nothing, which still does not discount it as a possible Arnenian dialect**. The linguistic affiliation of Hurrian is also up for grabs: No one knows what language family it belongs to. As I have repeatedly, repeatedly said and will continue to say, Hurrian is thought to be Uralic, Indo-European, Semitic (Amoritic), and Dravidian depending on who you ask, which clearly indicates that the "academic world" doesn't know didly squat. Gavoukjian, ironically, himself bought the Uralic (Finno-Ugric in his day as of yet) idea by going with Diakonov's Baku influenced ASSumptions. Yes, Diakonov has been indicted in RUssian television of having been on Baku's payroll, and Diakonov is one of the chief "Urartu is not Armenian" architects of the Soviet pseudo-science on the topic.

 

**As to the possibility that EVEN the Urartuan cuneiform is possibly an Armenian dialect, A. Mordtmann is one strong proponent of this from the heyday, pre-genocide period of Armenology. Mordtmann is my favorite, because he was one of the rare scholars who as actually willing to study the ancient cultures in Armenia by actually referencing and taking into account the Armenian language! What a damned novel concept!

 

Imagine, study Armenia and actually take into account Armenians. How "revolutionary" indeed.

Edited January 27, 2014 by hagopn

[onjig]

I haven't visited this thread for a good while. There is something we have known but not sure I've seen it written.

 

The Armenian people, the Hye , by any name we were called did write, did record, did seed greetings and keep count on belongings.

 

Armenians wrote with cuneiform and Greek for sure. The time came when we had Ayp pen kim an alphabet that was ours and ours alone. We were recording before that time.

 

 

Note: I take that back, hagopn, has pretty much said the same thing.

 

 

 

Armenia was a missionary country in early years and shared our religion and our alphabet with other peoples. Father told me that when in Ethiopia he saw that their alphabet had clearly Armenian looking letters, in most cases representing different sound. I thought it no accident.

Edited June 10, 2014 by onjig

[Arpa]

Yet another wishful thinking, fable.

To me the Ethiopian Alphabet looks much like the hebrew one, both being of semitic structure.

Amharic/Ethiopian alphabet. Oddly, contrary to other Semitics, linked (Arabic and Asyrian), it is detached. and spaced, like Greek, Latin and Armenian.. There is a reason for that.***

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/amharic.htm

Hebrew alphabet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet

Aramaic alphabet;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet

====

About the fables that Maahtots devised the Georgian and Albanian alphabets. Let us revisit this thread and see what our house comedic philosopher Harut said about what some claim that Mashtots designed the Georgian and the Caucasian Albanian Alphabets.

See # 31 here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=12093&page=2&&do=findComment&comment=174410

it is said that one sunny summer day, Mesrop Mashtots was enjoying his lunch with group of colleagues in his padio in vagharshapat... on that day they were having fine Italian spaghetti... the door to the patio opened and three dumb-faced individuals entered... obiously Georgians, they were there to beg the master to create alphabet for Georgians... angred by the barrage of beggars for alphabets for different nations since his creatation of the Armenian one, Mashtots banged his fist on the table... "ENOUGH!!!"... the fine plate of spaghetti jumped on the air and landed on the ground, creating a mess on the patio floor... looking at what he had done, Mashtots yelled... "THERE... THERE ARE LETTERS..." pointing to bizarre looking shapes on the floor created by the spaghetti that was now covering most of the patio floor... amased and mashtots's brilance, the three Georgians got on their knees, thanked the master, and starting finding their letters among the spaghetti....... and that's how the Georgian alphabet was created.

..

===

To not forget that some of us claim that the Ethiopian Christianity was spread by Armenian missionaries. Yes. It is very similar to the Armenian Apostolic Church.. But look here. It happened 300 years before Armenians became Christians. As always the Negro Ethiopian was eunuch, i.e a slave.**

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_eunuch

** In the Arabic Abeed means both an African negro and a slave simultaneously..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abeed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_(Arabic)

Also consider the word abdal . Some Armenians have Abdalian as their family name.

*** See #8 here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=27387&page=1&&do=findComment&comment=271318

ՄԵՆՔ ՄԵԶԻ ՀԱՐՍ ԵՆՔ ԼԻՆՈՒՄ, ԲԱՅՑ ՈՒՐ Է ՓԷՍԱՆ? ***

Տուն տուն ենք խաղում

We are playing that childish game of house, with daddy, mommy and baby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(game)

 

**** See Anushs crazed hallucinatory aria.

Էս ինչ տեսակ հարսանիք է, ոչ հարս ունինք ոչ փեսա:

Edited June 10, 2014 by Arpa

[onjig]

Yes, you run along to another thread I'll stay here looking through Urartu for a while. But we'll be along. Off you go.

[onjig]

I've always felt, understood, believed, known, could see that we were are Uratu, Araratu, Yurartu. I wonder if we played tavli those days.

[Arpa]

Who am I talking to?

I am talking to myself.

Armenia was a missionary country in early years and shared our religion and our alphabet with other peoples. Father told me that when in Ethiopia he saw that their alphabet had clearly Armenian looking letters, in most cases representing different sound. I thought it no accident.

Can we please wake up and smell the Haykakan Sourj?

Speak from the head, not from the other end?

Armenia was a missionary country?

When? Where? Please show us even one such name and reference..

The only missionaries connected to us, Thaddeus and Bartholomew** were not even Armenian. We Murdered (martyred?) them. It took us another 300 years before we became Christians.

The only Armenian Missionary Roger Youderian is not even an armenian by strict definition.***

See # 26 here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7065&page=2&&do=findComment&comment=161366

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Youderian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Auca

** Where do we see that they were Armenian Missionaries/

http://www.armenianprelacy.org/saints-day/saints-thaddeus-and-bartholomew

***And the farcical farce of Armenian missionaries in Iceland. Sarr-yeerkir Սառ- երկիր Սառ/Ice/Feost**** , to not confuse with Սար/mountain..

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=6660&page=1&&do=findComment&comment=52786

**** Btw. What is the Armenian word for frost, frostbite?

Edited June 17, 2014 by Arpa

[onjig]

In Uratu for frostbite we said baghahgaitel. Now saroitz- wait we don't get frostbite, we wear gloves and shoes, we sometimes have nosestockings.

 

 

 

 

Uratu=Urat=Ara=Ararat

Edited June 18, 2014 by onjig

[onjig]

Some imply they know the sounds written in hieroglyph and cuneiform I don't for a minute believe that.

They might find a shape that represents a word but can have no idea of the sound.

 

Linguistic differences? Can you tell the differences between ^^><^<> and """:::":: ? No! and nether can they, whoever they are.

 

At an Armenian wedding a priest was saying: " The Nairi overcame the Armens." The Armens are the Nairi as you know Nairi is what the Assyrians called us, now we use the word as a proper noun.

 

I read the writings of an Englishman or German, I forget, saying, We, The Armenians came from the west, west? West of what? where was he standing when he watched us.

 

The furk and asszies say we were never there, that we don't exist. Do You stand with any of them, who the hetch ever they are?

 

We were there from the begining no one was there to see that there was ever someone there between today and the time Noah stepped from the Ark.

[Yervant1]

ARMENOLOGIST ARTAK MOVSISYAN ON WRITING SYSTEMS IN URARTU

ARMENIA, CHRISTIANITY, HISTORY, MIRROR-SPECTATOR | JULY 30, 2015 1:59 PM
________________________________

Dr. Artak Movsisyan

By Aram Arkun

Mirror-Spectator Staff

WATERTOWN -- Artak Movsisyan is one of a very small number of
specialists in the writing systems used in Armenia prior to the
acceptance of Christianity. His doctoral thesis (1997) at Yerevan
State University (YSU) was written on the hieroglyphic script of the
kingdom of Urartu (Bianili). There are even fewer specialists on this
topic. Movsisyan visited Boston and other US cities in early 2015,
and after giving a lecture for Hamazkayin Armenian Educational and
Cultural Society in Watertown, visited the Mirror-Spectator to talk
about his work.

Movsisyan has been an associate professor of history at YSU since
1998 and a senior researcher at the Institute of Oriental Studies
of the National Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Armenia. He
also worked at the State Historical Museum of Armenia from 1991 to
1997. He is the author of many monographs and research articles in
Armenian and other languages, including one translated into English
as The Writing Culture of Pre-Christian Armenia (2006).

His 1998 volume on Urartian hieroglyphics was the first full book
published on this topic, and in fact only several articles have
been written on it too previously. This is in part because of the
difficulty in collecting source materials, which are dispersed in
three different countries. Many inscriptions are in museums and have
not been published. Prior to Movsisyan, the Englishman Richard Barnett
wrote an article after collecting 30 inscriptions. Movsisyan took this
field to a new level, collecting 1,500, many of which were for the
first time obtained from museums. He traveled four times to Western
Armenia (present-day Turkey) for research. It is still only possible
to read about 20 percent of the materials. Of 300 hieroglyphics,
only 60 can be interpreted today.

Some of the inscriptions give the names of kings, or serve as captions
for images of gods. Others are short texts, or lists. For example,
information on the quantity of wine in clay jars might be listed. Most
are on stone and clay, or bronze containers and plates, but seals of
inscriptions on parchment have also been preserved.

The language in which the inscriptions were written is still being
debated. Movsisyan believes that it may be ancient Armenian, with
Indo-European meanings and some similarities to (Indo-European)
Hittite and Luwian hieroglyphics. He believes that the Armenian
language was being used during the ninth to seven centuries BC. While
the hieroglyphics were in this language, he finds that a different
writing system being simultaneously used in Urartu -- Urartian
cuneiform - possibly could represent a different language which was
not Armenian. Some scholars like Sarkis Ayvazian insist that even
this cuneiform is representing a form of Armenian, but the majority
of scholars do not accept this (even if some words in Armenian may
be used). However, the pronunciation being used for these cuneiform
inscriptions is the Assyrian one, and it is not certain whether this
is the correct approach, according to Movsisyan. Further research
is necessary.

There have been a few instances where the same item was described
with both cuneiform and hieroglyphics, and this helped in decipherment.

Movsisyan stated that elements of some of the more ancient rock
carvings found in Armenia have been used in the hieroglyphics. It is
also possible, he believes, that the same hieroglyphic writing was
used by pagan priests in Armenia up until the adoption of Christianity
and Mashtots's invention of the Armenian alphabet.

A third writing system was also used by the Urartian initially,
Assyro-Babylonian cuneiform. However, only ten such inscriptions have
been collected, usually on stelae, with four on bilingual ones. In
comparison, there are about 1,350 objects with Urartian cuneiform
known at present.

In ancient times, the simultaneous use of a variety of writing systems
was not unusual, and many other kingdoms did this.

Movsisyan feels that in the Urartian state, the origins of the ruling
dynasty were not important. What is important is which ethnos's
interests was being represented by the rulers and the state--in this
case, Movsisyan feels, it is the Armenian one, as he is a subscriber
to the view that the origins of the Indo-Europeans lie in Armenia.

This theory would mean that the Armenians are an autochthonous people.

When asked about the difficulties of being a scholar in general in
present-day Armenia, Movsisyan explained that in general, scholars
must have a third job outside of academia in order to make ends meet,
which takes away time that could have been used for scholarship. With
the majority of the state budget being allocated to the army, because
of the tense situation with Azerbaijan, he felt that scholars had
to suffer until the future of Armenia was secured. The military in
Azerbaijan enjoys an annual budget greater than the entire Armenian
state budget.

Some scholars work in private schools and teach to make extra money,
or do translations. In general the number of scholars has greatly
decreased compared to the Soviet period because of the difficult
economic situation.

Movsisyan finds that Armenology is in general weak in reaching out to
the masses, who do not read scholarly works. He finds that there is a
lack of approachable and easily understandable films and books. For
this reason, he has already prepared six documentary films, "Tigran
the Great," "Nemrut: The Great Holy Place of the Sun-King," "From Rock
Carvings to Alphabet," "Artavazd II," "The Capital Older than Rome"
(Yerevan/Erebuni), and "Falsifiers of History: Azerbaijan." His
last two films were issued in five languages. All were financed
by individual Armenian patrons. Movsisyan wrote each script, but
different associations actually made the films. He is at present
working on a film on Urartu, which will show some battles and other
exciting information. In the past, Movsisyan had a television show
on Armenian history on the H1 channel called "Our History Classes."

For the same reason, he participating in writing textbooks in the
Republic of Armenia for the ancient period, and also for the Armenians
of New Julfa, Iran. As a history professor at YSU, he participated in
pan-Armenian educational consultative meetings which take place once
every two years in Armenia. Consequently, he planned a textbook for
diaspora use with 34 lessons for a 34 week school year for Saturday
or one day schools. It was published in Eastern Armenian in 2011, in
Western Armenian with classical orthography in 2012, and in Russian in
2013. The Armenian government printed and sent these out for free. Now
books will be translated into English, more for middle and high schools
(12-18 year olds). He also plans others for younger readers.

The diaspora division of the Ministry of Education and Science pays
for them.

Many of the children who come to Armenia to participate in the
Armenological Olympiad every two years have used his textbooks.

http://www.mirrorspectator.com/2015/07/30/armenologist-artak-movsisyan-on-writing-systems-in-urartu/

[Yervant1]

The new movie will present the Urartu phenomenon

20:55 | February 26 2016


Soon, Film Director Artak Avdalyan's `Ararat-Urartu Kingdom' a
documentary film will be screened, which presents the history of the
Kingdom of Van (Urartu). This was told to Aravot.am by the film author
and historian Artak Movsisyan. `Most of the work is done. The
shootings took place in Western Armenia, also here, in Iran. The film
presents Urartu as a civilization phenomenon and an important
component of the Armenian history. It also will serve as a handbook
for educational institutions.' To the observation that according to
some authors, Urartu did not even exist, Artak Movsisyan responded,
`We will present the facts and the viewers will figure out themselves.
The facts are very, we have abundant and rich material. The issue of
denying the existence of Urartu has more political reasons than
scientific.' Our interlocutor informed that earlier `Tigran the
Great', `Nemrut', `From Petroglyphs to Alphabet', `The Capital Older
than Rome', `Falsifiers of History' popular films.

Luiza SUKIASYAN

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__en.aravot.am_2016_02_26_174500_&d=CwIFaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=LVw5zH6C4LHpVQcGEdVcrQ&m=rSdHktjCpoRb0KsKBsRLpdMvlvaqT0jHWqqrYqjExMY&s=Q2rdaDBepRM0XJV7sMGtwxUgfwLB9tdjNLPfxIX55Pk&e=

[Yervant1]

2700-year-old street, the oldest in Yerevan found in Urartian Erebuni

http://media.pn.am/media/issue/216/430/photo/216430.jpg

July 7, 2016 - 16:49 AMT

PanARMENIAN.Net - Armenian-French-Iranian archaeological expedition has discovered the most ancient street of Yerevan in the territory of the Urartian city ofErebuni, head of the Armenian team of the expedition Mikayel Badalyan told reporters Thursday, July 7.

"This year, a 30-meter-long street with beautiful tiles has been found near the temple of Khaldi in Erebuni museum-reserve. It is 2700 years old,” Novosti Armenia cited Badalyan as saying.

He noted that this is a unique and unprecedented discovery, which completely changes the essence of the Urartian civilization.

“There are new assumptions about why there was a need for the construction of the Teishebaini fortress. It turned out, in particular, that an earthquake hit the area in the middle of the 7th century BC,” Badalyan said.

The head of the French team Stefan Duchamp, in turn, stressed the importance of the excavations.

“In recent years, foundations of buildings have been unearthed, hinting at the presence of not two, but three temples in Erebuni,” he said.

According to him, the excavations led to discoveries that are important for understanding the development of the civilization in the region in post-Urartian period.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/216430/

[Yervant1]

News.am, Armenia

Nov 12 2017

Ruins of fortress built during Urartu era found at bottom of Lake Van

17:57, 12.11.2017

Ruins of a fortress, supposedly built around 3000 years ago during the time of the state of Urartu, were found at the bottom of Lake Van in eastern Turkey, RIA Novosti reported.

It is noted that the construction occupying an area of ​​about one square kilometer at a depth of more than ten meters, was flooded due to the fact that the water level in the lake rose 150 meters over the last centuries. During the underwater studies, stone sculpture of a lion was also discovered. Local authorities expect that the finding will attract the attention of archaeologists and tourists-divers.

Urartu is a state in the Near East centred on Lake Van in the Armenian Highlands from 9 to 6 centuries BC.

https://news.am/eng/news/420623.html