Why Is Aleppo's Diocese Called "perio Tem"?

[Gor-Gor]

I noticed that Aleppo's diocese (under G.H. Cilicia's jurisdiction) is called "Perio Tem," as opposed to something like "Halebi Tem." I wanted to see if anyone knew the answer to that...

 

In case you're confused, this is what I'm talking about: Բերիոյ Թեմ

 

And here is their website (it's quite nice, in Armenian and English): www.periotem.com

Edited December 7, 2005 by Gor-Gor

[Arpa]

I noticed that Aleppo's diocese (under G.H. Cilicia's jurisdiction) is called "Perio Tem," as opposed to something like "Halebi Tem." I wanted to see if anyone knew the answer to that...

 

In case you're confused, this is what I'm talking about: Բերիոյ Թեմ

 

And here is their website (it's quite nice, in Armenian and English): www.periotem.com

 

There is not much to go, except that Armenian sources state that during antiquities Aleppo was known to them as Berea, Beroea(not to confuse with Beroea/Veroea in Macedonia). Here is how it was known to Armenians; Բերիա, Բերոյա, Տիբերիա, Խալիպոն, Խաղաբ

Even though I may have known that it was known as Berio Tem (Diocese of Berea), I did not know much about it either.

 

This may be the best explanation yet;

http://www.bartleby.com/65/be/BereaIsr.html

From the above;

millenium B.C. In the 14th–13th cent. B.C. it was controlled by the Hittites. Later, Aleppo was a key point on the major caravan route across Syria to Baghdad. From the 9th to the 7th cent. B.C. it was mostly ruled by Assyria and was known as Halman. It was later (6th cent. B.C.) held by the Persians and Seleucids. Seleucus I (d. 280 B.C.) rebuilt much of the city, renaming it Berea. The city’s commercial importance was enhanced by the fall of Palmyra in A.D. 272, and by

 

Here is that passage from the NT.

Once again not to confuse Berea/Aleppo with Berea/Beroea, Macedonia.

 

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx...&size=First+100

 

See Berea in this map;

http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/pauls-secd-journey-map.html

Edited December 7, 2005 by Arpa

[Gor-Gor]

Excellent, thank you.

 

Now, a follow up question. Was the diocese named "Perio Tem" as a historical nod to the ancient name of Aleppo, or did the diocese exist in some form in ancient times when the area was called Peria? Hmm.

[karakash]

Excellent, thank you.

 

Now, a follow up question. Was the diocese named "Perio Tem" as a historical nod to the ancient name of Aleppo, or did the diocese exist in some form in ancient times when the area was called Peria? Hmm.

 

My family was in Aleppo last year around this time as we have a lot of family there who are actively involved with the Perio Tem. I will ask them about it's terminology. I noticed the same thing.

[Gor-Gor]

Cool, thanks.

 

We're probably related...or your uncle and my aunt were neighbors, at the very least!

 

GO HALEB! lol

[Arpa]

Excellent, thank you.

 

Now, a follow up question. Was the diocese named "Perio Tem" as a historical nod to the ancient name of Aleppo, or did the diocese exist in some form in ancient times when the area was called Peria? Hmm.

No GorGor,

I am the master Haleptsi here.

The rest is in sarcasm/հէգնանք. So shoot me or have me hanged at Bab el Faraj. ( I have seen hanged people at that square).

To answer your question how far back the Diocese of Aleppo goes , or does it go further than the Christian era.

Don’t you know that WE created the world and wrote the ultimate textbook of geography?

Of course, Aleppo/Beria, Istanbul/Polis/Bolis, Jerusalem and Antelias were part of Armenia and still are, that is why we still maintain a diocese in Halep, a Patriarchate in that goddam Istanbul and another goddam patriarchate in that other goddam country of Jerusalem. But above all that clown from Antelias tours the world promoting His kingdom. Yeah, right, we need another kingdom like another hole in our…. head.

Has anyone heard that Armenia is not in Istanbul, it is not in Syria, not in that goddam country of Israel, neither it is in Antelias.

There is only one Armenia, Yerevan is its capital. Let’s get used to it. There is only one catholicosate in Ejmiatsin. We don’t need more clowns anymore than the over a billion Catholics need another Pope.

 

May all other pseudo-“armenias” GO TO HELL!!

:angry:

 

We Have had a Patriarchate in Jerusalem for over a thousand years, one in Istanbul for half a millenium, a diocese in Aleppo for a long time, have any of them done anything to promote out plight? On the contrary it was in Istanbul that over 400 of our best intelligentsia was slaughtered. Has the government ruling over Jerusalem even acknowledged our tragedy, or the government ruling over Istanbul? Has the government over Antelias acknowledged the Genocide, or the government of Aleppo?

 

BTW. It is Beria/Բերիա not Peria/Պերիա/Փերիա.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Arpa

[Gor-Gor]

Jeez, I don't know if I should respond to any of that...lol

 

BTW, I know it's Beria in English. But if some Armenians are allowed to spell words incorrectly, then some other Armenians should be allowed to pronounce words incorrectly.

[karakash]

Jerusalem and Constantinople have been around for a very long time. As for Antelias, that is the name of the town. It is not an Armenian word. The Great House of Cilicia was in Cilicia for hundreds of years and only 80 years ago came to Lebanon. Perhaps efforts to keep it alive with the assistance of Near East Relief should not have happened, but for historical purposes there have been 2 catholicoi for almost 600 years. This is nothing new. To blame Aram I would be a mistake I think. For 70 years of communist rule, Antelias and Jerusalem were preparing the clergy - Karekin Sarkissian, Aram Keshishian, Mesrob Ashjian, Torkom Manoogian, Vatche Hovsepian, Khoren I, Zareh I, Tiran Nersoyan - all children of the Antelias Seminary or Jerusalem. The contributions made by those two places cannot be diminished. Only now that Etchmiadzin is no longer under communist rule can Armenians turn to that institution and that seminary. Up until 1956, all of the churches in the US contributed greatly to the Great House of Cilicia. When Karekin II was elected in 1995 and made the move from Antelias to Etchmiadzin many speculated that it might mean the end for the Great House of Cilicia. I don't espouse the notion of Aram I that Cilicia should be the Catholicosate for the diaspora and Etchmiadzin should worry only about Armenia, but I don't think we can undermine the efforts of the Great House of Cilicia or discount the contributions it has made to the Armenian nation, especially during the last 75 years.

[karakash]

Cool, thanks.

 

We're probably related...or your uncle and my aunt were neighbors, at the very least!

 

GO HALEB! lol

 

 

I love Haleb - I've been 5 times and each time gets better. I was there last year for New Year's and it was a great time.

[Arpa]

Jerusalem and Constantinople have been around for a very long time. As for Antelias, that is the name of the town. It is not an Armenian word. The Great House of Cilicia was in Cilicia for hundreds of years and only 80 years ago came to Lebanon. Perhaps efforts to keep it alive with the assistance of Near East Relief should not have happened, but for historical purposes there have been 2 catholicoi for almost 600 years.

===

during the last 75 years.

This is not the proper place to talk politics, religion and national issues. As we can see this thread is under the topic of Language.

So, I will make as short as possible.

To not deny the invaluable service all of our institutions have rendered, at times even I confess that our religious institutions may have singlehandedly save our nation, including Antelias and Ejmiatsin( I know that Antelias is the town, and so is Ejmiatsin a town also), but does that mean we have to have two full blown Catholicosates, can’t bishoprics, archbishoprics, patriarchates, diocese and prelacies do the same job?

Don’t Catholics, to mention one have thousands of institutions and seminaries, does that mean they also must have a Pope for every institution? And to say that the Great House of Kilikia has been in existence for over a thousand years, true, does that mean in this day and age of jet airplanes, telephone, radio, tv and…. Internet it is still a necessity? At one time, in the model of the Armenian schism Catholics also had schisms. Where are they now?

Has Aram I visited Ejmiatsin? Garegin II visited Antelias?

Yet every time they open their mouths they speak about love. Love who? The Turk? And after all that would you still believe what they say?

Don’t feel like hiding under a rock with shame??

 

If we should continue this debate we better move to a more proper subject topic.

[karakash]

If we should continue this debate we better move to a more proper subject topic.

 

 

I think this is a great topic and I agree with you on many points. By the way, Aram I has been to Etchmiadzin - I saw him there at the funeral of Karekin I and he was also there at the consecration of Karekin II.

 

And I do agree that times have changed and things are different now. I think the split in the USA is a big problem. Please create a topic in the page you think is appropriate and I'll continue there.

[Gor-Gor]

You all may think I am crazy or tribal or even prejudicial...

 

But I don't think the Great House of Cilicia should go anywhere, if only for this one reason. For me, the Great House of Cilicia is the last institution testifying to the existence of Western Armenia. As such, it should remain.

 

Besides, joining the 2 would be such a huge undertaking.

 

What would happen to all the churches that under Cilicia's jurisdiction? What would happen to the Arachnortarans, to the schools operated by, for instance, the Western Prelacy here in the US?

 

What would happen to the Cilicia printing house? To the mayr dajar in Antelias, to the veharan at Antelias?

[Arpa]

OK it seems like this topic is going off track and turning into a socio-political debate.

I just posted under Subject topic National a short item. I chose that particular subject topic rather than Church or Religion since the potential arguments will be more of a social political nature.

Woud th mods kindly move the above posts to that thread since very few of the above have anything to do with language.

I will remove/edit out this post as soon as we move our observations to that thread.

[Arpa]

Dear GorGor, inch k’@ses gor? :)

 

I know this is not the definitive answer to your question.

Below you will see what Khorenatsi had to say about the subject. Remember that Khorenatsi lived and wrote in the 5-6th century. Some argue that he may have lived even much later.

Sorry, I could find no way to convert the text to readable Armenian, therefore I will reproduce the relevant passage. Also, if you can read the text at DigiLib go to the URL below, click on geography (Աշխարհացոյց) on the side bar, scroll down to Haghaks Asorots where it is actually about Syria as we know it. Among others, he speaks about Damascus and Palmyra, but the segment below is about the environs of Halep.

Note that Khorenatsi spells the word with a RA rather than RE.

»õ ´»édzª áñ ¿ ʳ½³½© ÈÇÏǹǷǫ ÛáñáõÙ ù³Õ³ù ø³ÉÏÇ볫 áñ ¿ ÜÏáñdz© »õ ²õ³·Ý ²ÝïÇáù Çõñ ½³ïáõó»³É ³ß˳ñѳõÝ« áñ ÏáãÇ ê»É»õÏdz© ½²å³ÙÇë« ÛáñáõÙ ù³Õ³ù ²å³Ùdz« »õ ºåÇ÷³Ýdzª áñ ¿ лٳà »õ ºÙ³Í³« »õ ³ÛÉù© ½Î³ëÇáïǪ ÛáñáõÙ ²é³ïá½ Ïսǩ ½ÎÇõÉÇëÇõédzª ÛáñáõÙ ¸³Ù³ëÏáë ù³Õ³ù© ½´³¹³Ý³ Áëï ³Ý³å³ïÇ© ½ä³ÉÙÇñáõÝÇ« ÛáñáõÙ ¿ гõ³ñÇÝ ù³Õ³ù Áëï ²Ý³å³ï ²ñ³µÇáÛ« »õ ½´³Éµ³ÝÇïÇë Áëï º÷ñ³ï³Û£ àõÝÇÝ É»ñÇÝë ½äǻ鳫

Եւ Բեռիա որ է Խազազ

Is he saying that Beria and Khazaz (Azez/Azaz? a town north of Aleppo) one and the same?

Ունին լերինս զԲիեռա

I have no idea what the Mountains of Bierra is/are. There are no mountains in Aleppo except for Ain Ele Tel where most of the water came from before tapping into Euprates, and the sector known as Tilel (the Hills) simply because the area is a climb up from Suleymanieh street. Is he referring to the mountains of Ante-Lebanon, i.e. the beginnings of the Taurus Mts. in Antioch, Musayi Ler?

 

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/~aua/page0.html

Edited December 16, 2005 by Arpa