Legendary Characters

[Ata Donme]

Well, this topic I have decided to create for legendary characters in history who may well have been Armenian...

 

To get the debate/arguments/teeth-gnashing under way I put forward two candidates who may well have been Armenian...

 

1) Sourp Kevork, patron saint of England and many European countries.

Kevork was from the province of Cappadocia in Asia Minor (Turkey) and served as a cavalry officer in the Roman army during the 3rd century AD.

His was on active duty in Phonecia which is in Syria.

He converted to Christianity and was put to death by the Emperor.

Kevork was thus turned into a saint, know to the Greeks as Yorgos and to the Latins as Giorgio.

 

2) Artur (Harutune), decended from an Armenian aristocratic familyt that lost its lands in Armenia in the late 2nd century AD.

The Romans offered them lands elsewhere and they would defend those lands for Rome.

The lands in question lay in Brittania (Britain).

And so Artur grew up in Britannia and inherited the lands, but by the begining of the 400's Britannia was coming under increased attacks by invaders such as the Saxons.

Rome left Britannia in 410 AD to its own defences taking the legions to the continent to defend what was left.

And so Artur and his Equites of Sarmatians (knights) took to defending their lands and its people.

And so the legend of King Arthur was born.

Incidentally, this may be the reason why the 'Celtic Crosses' of Britain and Ireland look like our Khacthkars, with the Armenians who first settled here in time more would have found there way to the island especially int he later centuries as chaos came to Armenia with them would come Christianity which Rome also encouraged them to defend in Britannia...

Compare the symbol of eternity on the 'Celtic Cross' at the end of the page to the Armenian symbol.

Edited September 7, 2005 by Ata Donme

[Artaxias]

George maybe, but Arthur is extremely far fetched.

 

Here's another one:

 

Ulfilas

(Also: Ulphilas), apostle of the Goths, missionary, translator of the Bible, and inventor of an alphabet, born probably in 311; died at Constantinople in 380 or 381. Though Ulfilas in speech and sympathies was thoroughly Gothic, he was descended not from Teutonic ancestors, but from Cappadocians captured, in the reigns of Valerian and Gallienus, during the raids in Asia Minor made by the Goths from the north of the Danube. There seems to be no valid reason for thinking Ulfilas was not born a Christian (Hodgkin places his conversion during his residence at Constantinople). As a young man he was sent to that city either as a hostage or an ambassador, and, after occupying for some time the position of lector in the church, he was consecrated bishop in his thirtieth year by the celebrated Arian bishop of Nicomedia, Eusebius. Shortly after his consecration he returned to Dacia and during the remaining forty years of his life he laboured among his fellow-countrymen as a missionary. The first eight or ten years of his missionary life were spent in Dacia, after which because of the persecution of his pagan countrymen he was compelled with many of his Christian converts to seek refuge in Moesia. It was at this period in his life that he conceived the idea of translating the Bible into the language of the Goths, a task demanding as a preliminary that he should invent a special alphabet. His familiarity with Greek made the task comparatively simple, only a few letters being borrowed from other sources, Runic or Latin. Despite his many other activities Ulfilas translated "all the books of Scripture with the exception of the Books of Kings, which he omitted because they are a mere narrative of military exploits, and the Gothic tribes were especially fond of war, and were in more need of restraints to check their military passions than of spurs to urge them on to deeds of war" (Philostorgius, "Hist. eccl.", II, 5). The Books of the Old Testament were translated from the Septuagint; those of the New Testament from the original Greek. Ulfilas was at the Synod of Constantinople in 360 when the sect of Acacius triumphed and issued its compromise creed as a substitute for the formularies of the Orthodox as well as the Arian parties. It is unfortunate that the career of Ulfilas was marred by his adherence to the Arian heresy. It may be said in extenuation of this fault that he was a victim of circumstances in coming under none but Arian and semi-Arian influences during his residence at Constantinople; but he persisted in the error until the end of his life. The lack of orthodoxy deprived the work of Ulfilas of permanent influence and wrought havoc among some of his Teutonic converts. His labours were impressed not only on the Goths, but on other Teutonic peoples, and because of the heretical views they entertained they were unable to maintain themselves in the kingdoms which they established. Only a few chapters of Ulfilas's translation of the Old Testament are in existence. Of the New Testament we have the greater portion of the Gospels in the beautiful Silver Codex (a purple parchment with silver and gold letters) now at Upsala, and dating from the fifth century perhaps; nearly all of St. Paul's Epistles in a Milanese Codex edited by Cardinal Mai, and a large fragment of the Epistles to the Romans on a Wofenbüttel palimpsest.

 

 

Ulfilas introduced the word heathen into Germanic languages, the word heathen is from the Armenian hethanos, itself a loanword from ethnos.

[Arpa]

Well, this topic I have decided to create for legendary characters in history who may well have been Armenian...

 

To get the debate/arguments/teeth-gnashing under way I put forward two candidates who may well have been Armenian...

 

1) Sourp Kevork, patron saint of England and many European countries.

Kevork was from the province of Cappadocia in Asia Minor (Turkey) and served as a cavalry officer in the Roman army during the 3rd century AD.

His was on active duty in Phonecia which is in Syria.

He converted to Christianity and was put to death by the Emperor.

Kevork was thus turned into a saint, know to the Greeks as Yorgos and to the Latins as Giorgio.

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This is a heap of “dragon droppings”.

No wonder we are in such deep doodoo.

We are scratching the bottom of the barrel.

The Armenian saying goes; “Shat mi kharner k*k@ k’ella“, meaning “if you stir deep enough you will hit sh*t“.

No matter how we search, go ahead, conduct a search using st/saint George as you keyword, you will run into the word “LEGEND”. Legend means just that, I.e. no historical evidence. We also know that St George is the patron saint of the English, which according to some was discovered during the Crusades.

An aside; Why is Vrastan known as Georgia?

We said that this assumption is full of “dragon doo”, and it is.

What is a dragon? Hs anyone seen one except at a Chinese festival?

The Armenian word for dragon is vishap, So if George was Armenian his name would have been “vishapaspan (dragon slayer) or “vishapakagh” (dragon reaper) (btw, Vahakn has both of those titles.)

On the other hand if George was Armenian his name would have been “erkragordz”, as George is strictly a Greek word to mean “farmer/worker of the earth” from “geo=earth” and [e]rg=work. We know from our elementary physics that “erg” means work. Consider the English “work” an the German “werk”.

I said “erkragordz” and not “mshak”, another Armenian(?) word to mean farmer. The question mark to indicate that “mshak” is not a native Armenian word, it was introduced from the Caucasian languages, the likes of Georgian ( I can elaborate on that).

Stating that St George was Armenian is not any different from stating that Santa Claus was Turkish. Is that enough fodder for ridicule?

 

FYI. In the Armenian the name, strictly speaking is spelled "Gevorg"not Kevork, to be more precise, “Geworg/"Գեւորգ "as in the Greek Gamma-Epsilon-…Omega-Rho-Gamma where the Hyun/Ւ is either silent or pronounced like the English W.

 

Go ahead, stir the bottom of the barrel and see what kind of sh*t you may hit to bring more ridicule upon us.

Is there a pkace for us at Round Table of Arthur? Or are we too square?

 

Are not Saints Aramazt, St. Haik, St Vahakn, St Anahit and Astghik enough that we have to resort to such garbage to legitimize our very existence??!!.

As to Arthur=Harut, we can work on the likes of Harutyun Mikoyan or Alexander Harutunian whose Trumpet Concerto is a world renown masterpiece posed on the same page as Hayden’s.

Edited September 6, 2005 by Arpa

[Ata Donme]

Great info Artaxias! Inevitably looking into 'legends you uncover facts, so I can see this thread turning into a "famous ancient Armenians" topic

Oh Arpa, I hope your teeth are ok, from all the gnashing!

 

Arpa Wrote...

This is a heap of “dragon droppings”.

Well if you consider looking into our history as such, it is your choice.

No matter how we search, go ahead, conduct a search using st/saint George as you keyword, you will run into the word “LEGEND”.

I know that typing in St. George into your average yagoogoo will churn up the Encarta version of history, so that's why I take a deep look at history then again at a different angle to get your teeth gnashing, after all what was going on in this Forum before I came along? Scintillating dialogue? Nouvel ideas? Really?

 

An aside; Why is Vrastan known as Georgia?

It might be due to the fact that its first king, of the united kingdoms of Abasgia and Iberia, was called George You can verify it in a yagoogoo search engine

 

The Armenian word for dragon is vishap, So if George was Armenian his name would have been “vishapaspan (dragon slayer) or “vishapakagh” (dragon reaper) (btw, Vahakn has both of those titles.)

 

Actually the Armenian word for dragan, Vishap, is of Hindu origin and so is Vahakn he is Agni, oh yes, there was a Hindu population in Taron by 149 BC...

Just read the works of Zenob, the disciple of Sourp Gregor.

 

On the other hand if George was Armenian his name would have been “erkragordz”, as George is strictly a Greek word to mean “farmer/worker of the earth” from “geo=earth” and [e]rg=work. We know from our elementary physics that “erg” means work. Consider the English “work” an the German “werk”.

I said “erkragordz” and not “mshak”, another Armenian(?) word to mean farmer. The question mark to indicate that “mshak” is not a native Armenian word, it was introduced from the Caucasian languages, the likes of Georgian ( I can elaborate on that).

 

Oh I do like Physics, I am sure all subjects can be woven together and discoursed with pleasure, but lets try to keep to the subject of this Cappadocian cavalry officer, who DID exist, I doubt the Armenians of the 4th century would have elaborated the Hellenic name into a direct Armenian translation, did they do so for Bedros, Boghos, Matios or Tatios? Noooooo

By the way, have you Vrastani blood in you?

If so then I can understand your abhorance to the notion that this Patron Saint could be Armenian, oh the Vrastanis do hate us, dont you

 

 

Stating that St George was Armenian is not any different from stating that Santa Claus was Turkish. Is that enough fodder for ridicule?

 

Oh dear, my conception of you being Vrastani is increasing, why you surely know that there was no such state as Turkey in 4th century Anatolia?

Nikolous aka Santa Claus was an ethnic Greek, or Roman citizen as he would have called himself, and he DID exist as history proves and science verified by way of his skeleton, DNA testing and facial reconstruction go on, have a look....

 

FYI. In the Armenian the name, strictly speaking is spelled "Gevorg"not Kevork, to be more precise, “Geworg/"Գեւորգ "as in the Greek Gamma-Epsilon-…Omega-Rho-Gamma where the Hyun/Ւ is either silent or pronounced like the English W.

 

Oh what a titilating discourse on the rules of words.

Try saying Gevorg in the Istanbul Armenian community and you might end up on a kebab skewar, for calling them Gevor which in Turkish means Infidel.

In western Armenian we pronounce it as Kevork, as the Cappadocian Armenians would have too.

Dear me, it looks less and less like your Armenian from the evidence

Go on, gnash your teeth, you know you love it!

 

Go ahead, stir the bottom of the barrel and see what kind of sh*t you may hit to bring more ridicule upon us.

Is there a pkace for us at Round Table of Arthur? Or are we too square?

 

Oh the Vrastani is speaking of US I did not know that Armenians did not want to learn about their history or of researching into it.

Nor did I think Armenians thought of such pursuits as sh*t.

Unless of course you are Vrastani, in which case anything to do with Hygagan culture must be erased at all cost and silenced, oh Vrastan is such a good bed fellow of father Turkey isn't it?

Oh yes research proves that Sarmatian cavalrymen were employed into the Roman army and large numbers of them were settled in Britain.

Being a warrior nation, they preffered a simple round wooden table when it came to feasting, so no one would argue and fight over seating arangements.

You see dear Arpashkvili, Legends conceal facts.

 

 

Are not Saints Aramazt, St. Haik, St Vahakn, St Anahit and Astghik enough that we have to resort to such garbage to legitimize our very existence??!!.

 

Hoho, I like your humour, oh they are soooo Armenian aren't they these pagan dieties of various ethic origins, oh yes Vahakn is also of Hindu origin too, from the mid 2nd century BC onwards.

Oh I just can't help adding that Aramazd is from the Zoroastrian Ahura Mazda and Anahit is Scythian in origin, a warrior nation related to the Sarmatians, they had contact with Armenia via caucasian Albania where Azerbaijan is today.

Oooo these dieities are soo Armenian

Dear Arpashkvili, try looking for some more factual characters, you talk about digging up sh*t, but if you can not appreciate history and culture and think all of it as sh*t then why bother reading this thread

It will only damage your teeth with all that gnashing...

As for me, any reasearch into history that can reveal the characters, is a worthy pursuit, our people are not sh*t Arpashkvili, we are Diamonds, and every time Vrastanis or others hit us, it makes us Stronger...

 

But lets be above petty one-up-manship and keep this thread to its subject, as I have seen many good threads end up as slanging matches, obviously due to the lack of fellows capable of contributing anything nouvel, so Artaxias, keep on enlightening us True Armenians

Edited September 9, 2005 by Ata Donme