Japan News

[gamavor]

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=&id=346291

 

How you diferentiate between a great nation and miserable bastards, aka - turks?

[Nakharar]

This must be the Xth time they are apologizing. This is getting totally ridiculous. Who cares by the way? Let bygones be bygones.

 

I wonder when and if the US and Britain will apologize for their war crimes.

[Arpa]

Nakharar may have a point.

So, Gams hold the ballonns and the confetti. It may be premature celebUration, rhymes with.....

Wait till Japan runs out of dry land, lose all their rice paddies, los all their industry like Toyota and Honds to China. Wait till th population starves both for food and land. As we speak Japan is building artificial islands for the planes to land as there may not be enough dry land left.

 

Then we will see how good their oath and promises are.

Edited August 15, 2005 by Arpa

[arziv]

This must be the Xth time they are apologizing. This is getting totally ridiculous. Who cares by the way? Let bygones be bygones.

 

I wonder when and if the US and Britain will apologize for their war crimes.

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The fundamental difference is that Japan lost the war and was militarily occupied. The same thing with Germany and Europe, defeated, vanquished,rubbleized,enslaved and occupied.

In contrast the Turks won their war and became occupiers, having legal deeds to the land. After the mongrel Ataturk routed the Greek armies from Asia minor,( former Byzantium) reconquering Greek possessions and trampling the treaty of Serves and redrafting a new one, Laussanne, it is politically unfeasable for the Turk to make any admissions.

No one questions the victor how he won. Even if that question is put forward it serves only as an academic enquiry.

The only way the Turk will apologize is through a military defeat and a dismemberment of its nation.

[gamavor]

In contrast the Turks won their war and became occupiers

 

That is not very accurate. Turks lost WWI and became occupiers. They won Greco-Turkish war, and again they lost Armeno-Turkish war in 1918. The whole paradox with Turkey is that they lost and became victors! Something that happens very rarely.

 

The only way the Turk will apologize is through a military defeat and a dismemberment of its nation.

 

Agreed! I wish them good luck in joining the EU! I'm all for it! As for dismemberment of Turkey - it is inevitable.

[arziv]

That is not very accurate. Turks lost WWI and became occupiers. They won Greco-Turkish war, and again they lost Armeno-Turkish war in 1918. The whole paradox with Turkey is that they lost and became victors! Something that happens very rarely.

Agreed! I wish them good luck in joining the EU! I'm all for it! As for dismemberment of Turkey - it is inevitable.

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I don't wish to split hairs but the final outcome, win or lose ,conforms to the vindication of the Turk. The Turks won "their war". I am not refering to the Ottoman Empire that was confined to the pages of history . Turkey's geographical integrity was maintained intact, by repulsing the Greeks, from the hitherto Greek Asian minor provinces, and its armenians, and clearing their eastern provinces of the Russians and armenians. A loser ends up paying reparations and signing compensatory treaties. Nothing of the sort happened to the Turk. I regret to say the Turk only signed the Lausanne treaty and that piece of paper sealed the victory of "his war". As far as the Armeno Turkish war, Turks did not lose it either. They simply failed to conquer and occupy eastern Armenia ,which it had always been an integral part of the Romanov Empire. The fact that the Communists yielded Kars and Ardahan, which had been part of the Romanov Empire, is further testimony that the Turk , not the Ottoman establishment, was succesful in recapturing Turkish demarcated territories and creating the nation of modern Turkey from the ashes of Ottoman disintegration.

The Turks tore to shreds the Wilsonian map, that the Ottomans had accepted in the treaty of Serves,which in fact would have constituted in legal terms the acknowledgement of the Porte's defeat in the Great War.

I make a clear distinction between Ottoman Turkey and Turks Turkey .

[Nakharar]

The fundamental difference is that Japan lost the war and was militarily occupied. The same thing with Germany and Europe, defeated, vanquished,rubbleized,enslaved and occupied.

In contrast the Turks won their war and became occupiers, having legal deeds to the land. After the mongrel Ataturk routed the Greek armies from Asia minor,( former Byzantium) reconquering Greek possessions and trampling the treaty of Serves and redrafting a new one, Laussanne,  it is politically unfeasable for the Turk to make any admissions.

No one  questions  the victor how he won. Even if that  question is put forward it serves only as an academic enquiry.

The only way the Turk will apologize is through a military defeat and a dismemberment of its nation.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Let's not deceive ourselves. The Germans would have never apologized for the holocaust if they didn't have a gun pointed at their heads. I'm living amongst them and I've never met a German who is truly sorry for what happened. You should see the Jew and holocaust jokes they are cracking in private.

 

The Japanese apologize because they lost face. It is the humiliation of having been defeated that compells them to do this over and over again. They can't forgive themselves for having lost.

 

Arziv put it correctly. Why should the Turks apologize when they have achieved all their war aims? I even hold those Turks suspect who name the Armenian genocide for what it is and offer an apology. Why apologize out of the blue? These people are probably cosmopolitan Turks who do not fit into Turkish society. They are doing it because as pink lemonade liberals they think it is the fashionable thing to do and by doing this they are going to be accepted as Europeans/Westerners. They can hold on to their illusions for what I care.

 

We can deduce that apology comes from a position of weakness. Those who are in no position to negotiate and are begging for mercy will do so in no time.

[Nakharar]

I don't wish to split hairs but the final outcome, win or lose ,conforms to the vindication of the Turk.    The Turks won "their war". I am not refering to the Ottoman Empire that was confined to the pages of history . Turkey's geographical integrity was maintained intact, by repulsing the Greeks, from the hitherto Greek Asian minor provinces, and  its armenians,  and clearing their eastern provinces of the Russians and armenians. A loser ends up paying reparations and signing compensatory treaties.  Nothing of the sort happened to the Turk. I regret to say the Turk only signed the Lausanne treaty and that piece of paper sealed the victory of "his war". As far as the Armeno Turkish war, Turks did not lose it either. They simply failed to conquer and occupy eastern Armenia ,which it had always been an integral part of the Romanov Empire. The fact that the Communists  yielded Kars and Ardahan, which had  been part of the Romanov Empire, is further testimony that the Turk , not the Ottoman establishment, was succesful in recapturing Turkish demarcated territories and creating the nation of  modern Turkey from the ashes of Ottoman disintegration. 

The Turks tore to shreds the Wilsonian map, that the Ottomans had accepted in  the treaty of Serves,which in fact would have constituted in legal terms the acknowledgement of the Porte's defeat in the Great War.

I make a clear distinction between Ottoman Turkey  and Turks Turkey .

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

They are the only country to have succesfully overturned and dicated another treaty on their own terms. And that as a previously defeated party of WWI. We sure don't have to like it but the Turks were the masters of strategy in that period. The Turks played their cards excellently when they turned to the Soviet Union, which was embroiled in a civil war and surrounded by the armies of the Western powers, and convinced them that they were going to be a bulwark against the British and French in the south and the Caucasus. The Communist were probably overjoyed to have one country on their side in their desperate hour and happily gave them arms, ammunition and Kars & Ardahan on top of that, which was a liability for them anyways. The Turks were also cunning enough to play off one ally against the other and weaken their resolve. The Italians left and gave all their weapons to the Turks on the condition they should be used against the Greeks. The French made up with them after a ragtag band of Turks defeated them in Marash and Urfa, etc. These two were effectively won over as allies by the Turks. France was the second country to recognize Turkey as a sovereign country in 1921. Whoever still thinks that the French were and are our allies should better wake up and smell the coffee. They gave them Cilicia all for free.

The Lausanne treaty was an overwhelming victory for the Turks much more than the crushing defeat of the Greek armies. A legally sanctified population exchange (which would be classified as ethnic cleansing today since all their immovables were left back as war compensation for the Turks) ended the 3000 year Greek presence in Anatolia and effectively sealed the fate of Armenians as a fait accompli.