DominO123 Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 QB, I am just showing what some of the guys do. Exactly, that is disgusting. Like claiming that "technology" supports some arguments. Using highly doubtful theories to undermine the creadibility of faith. Now, you can feel how disgusted I feel. And I don't need Einstein. You might guess that he is not the only great authority I turn to. style_images/master/snapback.png You were the one posting Einstein name first. As for what you have raised here, I will not advanture there, because I disagree with both positions, but what I can say is that in my opinion Solaris arguments are stronger, while Sasun main points are about calling others ignorants and shouting the word knowledge here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 (edited) You were the one posting Einstein name first. That was meant to make some people disgusted. Because there are people who do not understand what they do until you put them in your shoes forcefully. As for what you have raised here, I will not advanture there, because I disagree with both positions, but what I can say is that in my opinion Solaris arguments are stronger, while Sasun main points are about calling others ignorants and shouting the word knowledge here and there. style_images/master/snapback.png I think you're very unfare towards Sasun. As far as I can see they still debate. Some of Solaris arguments are strong but Sasun has some very strong points as well. So it is just your personal choice which arguments you like. For me it has no difference. QB, you think YOU have knowledge? Like what? Paradoxical Singularity? Yeah, right. Edited February 25, 2005 by Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 (edited) Einstein is on my side! Yes and if you want to call me something intimate call me "Benito". I prefer it to "Folks" style_images/master/snapback.png No, Benito, Einstein is not on your side. See Quebec's quotation below. And this is also one of my Einstein quotes: A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. But perhaps Einstein'll help you to resign to the idea of BB, if you like him so much: Einstein on the big Bang theory: For every one billion particles of antimatter there were one billion and one particles of matter. And when the mutual annihilation was complete, one billionth remained - and that's our present universe. Brevity is the soul of wit, Benito! Edited February 25, 2005 by Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 (edited) No, Benito, Einstein is not on your side. See Quebec's quotation below. Solaris, you feel realy insecure with this whole "Einstein" stuff, eh? You can have him back. How about the other people? Like Maxwell and others. And this is also one of my Einstein quotes: But perhaps Einstein'll help you to resign to the idea of BB, if you like him so much: Einstein on the big Bang theory: Yet, he was not sure as that previous quote where he speaks about creation shows. Benito! style_images/master/snapback.png I love that! More... Edited February 25, 2005 by Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 (edited) Now, does it matter that Eistein was not part of a formal religion? style_images/master/snapback.png Yes it does, at least to me. I call myself an atheist for the sole reason of emphasizing that I don't believe in a personal god and the pious mumbo-jumbo of "formal" religions. I don't have any objection whatsoever against abstract pantheism. I am convinced humans don't need a God and a religion to be moral, kind, honest, brave, conscientious or generous. The French existentialists, notably Sartre in his essay on Existentialism as Humanism, argued this point most brilliantly amidst the crazed "God is dead" refrain of the 1960s. In fact, you should consider reading stuff like that, before devoting your precious time to championing the cause of stigmata. Edited February 25, 2005 by Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I call myself an atheist for the sole reason of emphasizing that I don't believe in a personal god and the pious mumbo-jumbo of "formal" religions. I don't have any objection whatsoever against abstract pantheism. This sounds quite a bit like my beliefs. An agnostic who hates organized religion. I think you have chosen the wrong word, especially since I believe atheism is illogical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 This sounds quite a bit like my beliefs. An agnostic who hates organized religion. I think you have chosen the wrong word, especially since I believe atheism is illogical. style_images/master/snapback.png It basically depends on what you mean under "god". If atheism is lack of belief in god, and god is the personal god – the character from the scriptures, then it basically makes me an atheist. I use the word to put that straight and clear any doubts in that account (without having recourse to that upside-down cross that Armjan & Sasun "adore" ). But in a broader context – yea, I am surely a "regular" agnostic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Yes it does, at least to me. I call myself an atheist for the sole reason of emphasizing that I don't believe in a personal god and the pious mumbo-jumbo of "formal" religions. I don't have any objection whatsoever against abstract pantheism. I showed that Einstein had common ideas with religions, and for that it does not matter that he was not religious. I am convinced humans don't need a God and a religion to be moral, kind, honest, brave, conscientious or generous. Look, if you give importance to morality the same way the religions do, then there is at least one thing in common. So I don't understand why you are so antagonistic to religions. The French existentialists, notably Sartre in his essay on Existentialism as Humanism, argued this point most brilliantly amidst the crazed "God is dead" refrain of the 1960s. In fact, you should consider reading stuff like that, before devoting your precious time to championing the cause of stigmata. style_images/master/snapback.png I have read stuff like that (but I can't say I have been a big fan of Sartre), and influenced by them, had opinions like your opinions and attitude towards religion and the idea of God and even worse than that, etc... But this is not a one dimensional world. I have "grown up" now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 That was meant to make some people disgusted. Because there are people who do not understand what they do until you put them in your shoes forcefully. I think you're very unfare towards Sasun. As far as I can see they still debate. Some of Solaris arguments are strong but Sasun has some very strong points as well. So it is just your personal choice which arguments you like. For me it has no difference. QB, you think YOU have knowledge? Like what? Paradoxical Singularity? Yeah, right. style_images/master/snapback.png I did not profess any "knowledge" of a god, neither use the term ignorance where it does not fit, I refer here to the thread in which both of us participated, and where I developped regarding the term knowledge in what regard a god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Look, if you give importance to morality the same way the religions do, then there is at least one thing in common. So I don't understand why you are so antagonistic to religions. Because it is precisely only that one thing in common. All of the "benefits" organized religion has to offer humanity are not dependant on it but much of the trouble organized religion causes is exclusive to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 ...recourse... That is almost insulting. It is not inferior to exercise the convenience of bottling one's personal conclusions into a pre-existing form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 (edited) I did not profess any "knowledge" of a god, neither use the term ignorance where it does not fit, I refer here to the thread in which both of us participated, and where I developped regarding the term knowledge in what regard a god. style_images/master/snapback.png QB, there are many posts and many opinions I find wrong. Most of us have changed our opinions about this subject and moved towards the mean from both sides, the mean being: we don't know anything about the creation of universe and none of the "camps" can explain it. If you have some specific definition of knowledge you want Sasun to conform to ... discuss with him. There has always been inconsiderate attitude from the other camp. You want me to start complaining? There has been lot of inconsiderate attitude towards Sasun as well. I think at some point he may find OK to give some of it back. I don't call the feeling I get from spiritual cognition "knowledge". There is a word in Armenian that describes this: "veraprum" (reliving?). It does not have an exact equivalent in English. Edited February 25, 2005 by Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) QB, there are many posts and many opinions I find wrong. Most of us have changed our opinions about this subject and moved towards the mean from both sides, the mean being: we don't know anything about the creation of universe and none of the "camps" can explain it. If you have some specific definition of knowledge you want Sasun to conform to ... discuss with him. There has always been inconsiderate attitude from the other camp. You want me to start complaining? There has been lot of inconsiderate attitude towards Sasun as well. I think at some point he may find OK to give some of it back. I don't call the feeling I get from spiritual cognition "knowledge". There is a word in Armenian that describes this: "veraprum" (reliving?). It does not have an exact equivalent in English. style_images/master/snapback.png Discussing with Sasun? I won`t waste my time trying to make him understand what the word knowledge mean, I still am disgusted of his support for a schizoaffective criminal figure whom has abused countless numbers of women, and implied the victims to be liars, I still didn`t digested that pill... What strong argument has he brought, show me because unfortunitly I don`t see any... I don`t see how claiming how others are ignorant and how he was like them in the past is a strong argument, I don`t see how shouting the word knowledge is a strong argument. "Most of us," doesn`t include me, and I dought that most have changed their minds, Solaris from the start has admitted to me that taking a position was not a good thing... while Sasun profess a knowledge that can not be one. As for the creation of the universe, we don`t know anything from the point of view of someone that think that there should be "why" in everything, the day you start concluding that a "why" is not a must, you will see things compleatly differently. Edited February 26, 2005 by QueBeceR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Follow the Frenchman in the Matrix when he talk about human needing "purpouses." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) Oh, BTW, that`s my position. http://www.quantum.univie.ac.at/zeilinger/philosop.html EDIT: Oups, posted the wrong article, I will leave it there, because I think it`s still an interesting read. Edited February 26, 2005 by QueBeceR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Discussing with Sasun? I won`t waste my time trying to make him understand what the word knowledge mean, I still am disgusted of his support for a schizoaffective criminal figure whom has abused countless numbers of women, and implied the victims to be liars, I still didn`t digested that pill... What strong argument has he brought, show me because unfortunitly I don`t see any... I don`t see how claiming how others are ignorant and how he was like them in the past is a strong argument, I don`t see how shouting the word knowledge is a strong argument. QB, I don't have sufficient information on Sri Chinmoy to discuss this. But sometimes you make claims based on biased information, like you did in case of "Steiner is a nazi", which was some web-based slander (which as you may know is all over the place). You did not even care to read what he himself had to say on the subject. I don't know... Maybe you display the same attitude towards Sri? QB, there are many scientists and phylosophers with interesting behaviour, and I believe if we search we will find out that some very famous of them displayed schizo behaviour. As for the creation of the universe, we don`t know anything from the point of view of someone that think that there should be "why" in everything, the day you start concluding that a "why" is not a must, you will see things compleatly differently. style_images/master/snapback.png QB, how do you expect me to answer this? WHY, WHY, WHY!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Discussing with Sasun? I won`t waste my time trying to make him understand what the word knowledge mean Hmm... then stop stalking me in every thread! I have been ignoring you, and I will be ignoring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Armen, I don`t remember saying he was a NAZI, Steiner ideology has a racial characterization similair to those that the NAZI had. This reincarnation from Blacks to more evolved "races" is purly racistic in its true sense of the term, and anyone proposing such a thing for me is a fraud. As for Chinmoy, I said everything I had to say, those claiming to be victims are in the dozens, and they display the typical psychological behavour of raped and harassed women... I have no reason to attack someone like this. Chinmoy has lied in countless numbers of occasions with his lift stories, and his purity, there are even witnesses telling how unhonest he was in his vegetarism. But of course I got cursed by Mr. Sasun that is ignoring me from the day I have decided that hyeforum was not a place to make publicity for someone that take women as objects and kill psychologicaly peoples. I have read enough material to recognise the same methods and materns of denials used by the Turks to deny the genocide. But of course, Sasun can shout "I have grown" all he want... I was about to ask one of the victims with whom I have entered in contact to come at hyeforum and discuss about her cases, but since Mr. Chinmoy has a history of spamming the web and closing sites with the many best lawyers money can get(paying them with the money his brainwashed disciples give to him), he would probably either ask his men to spam this forum with their trash or threatning with legal actions, so I changed my mind. If you want, I can even help you to directly enter in contact with some of the victims(even by phone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Hmm... then stop stalking me in every thread! I have been ignoring you, and I will be ignoring... style_images/master/snapback.png Like I care. Ladies and gentlmen, Sasun is ignoring me, since the day I have exposed Chinmoy his Guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) Armen, I don`t remember saying he was a NAZI, Steiner ideology has a racial characterization similair to those that the NAZI had. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=59...ndpost&p=113122 QB, if you want I can provide you some info about what Hiler had to say about the anthoposophophists and Steiner and how anthroposophists were persecuted as "the friends of the Jews" and the pacifists. This reincarnation from Blacks to more evolved "races" is purly racistic in its true sense of the term, and anyone proposing such a thing for me is a fraud. style_images/master/snapback.png It has nothing to do with racism. It says that the first Lemurean race were the blacks and no other races existed at that time (actually there is a fairly similar claim in anthropology). It was a civilisation that had its peak and destruction. Similar to Atlantis, the civilisation of the Yellow race. The fact that he says that the "carrier" of the present civilisation are the White does not have any racial characteristics. Can you deny that the white people, because of some objective and subjective reasons, play a crucial role now? Aren't the Whites the contradiction of present civilisation: both the "creators" and the "destroyers"? QB, talking about races does not make you a racist authomatically. Don't be so careful when talking about races. It develops a reverse political superstition. Edited February 26, 2005 by Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 You're basically saying that there may be people like Bush who say they are Christians. So? There are many. style_images/master/snapback.png I had no idea Bush was a scientist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 I had no idea Bush was a scientist. style_images/master/snapback.png Oh, believe me he is. He invented the nukiller weapons What's your point Stormy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Oh, believe me he is. He invented the nukiller weapons What's your point Stormy? style_images/master/snapback.png I thought we were talking about scientists. My point is that what scientists believe in personally matters not. Not their religion, not their thoughts on the other sex, not their racial opinions, not their ideologies. Capisci? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 I thought we were talking about scientists. My point is that what scientists believe in personally matters not. Not their religion, not their thoughts on the other sex, not their racial opinions, not their ideologies. Capisci? style_images/master/snapback.png That point was already made several times. It does not matter for you. It matters for me. And for me it does not matter what you think more than what they think. Capisci? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 That point was already made several times. It does not matter for you. It matters for me. And for me it does not matter what you think more than what they think. Capisci? style_images/master/snapback.png Is that how fads are born? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.