Nané Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 (edited) Is it just my experience or do you also find that Armenian guys past their late 20's seem confused about wanting to get married and settled down. It does not appear to be a priority for them. I'd like to hear your opinions.....thanx style_images/master/snapback.png My observation and personal experience With time (meaning, as we get older ) men and women tend to become more reluctant to get married. Here are the reasons I can think of (although there are more): 1. increasing number of failed marriages amongst close and distant friends 2. a realistic understanding of what a marriage entails 3. a less romantic conception of marriage 4. strongly established autonomy / reluctance of losing it In short, as I often respond when asked how I approach the issue of marriage: "I approach it so seriously ... that I don't approach it all together" Edited November 19, 2004 by Sulamita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 I am sorry for not feeling pity for those women. They belong on Jerry Springer's show, sobbing and defending their husbands with the most moronic excuse "But I love him! Despite his brutal, narcissitic, deepshit nature, I know that somewhere deep underneath (yeah so underneath that our modern science won't be able to detect it even with X-rays) he's a really nice guy!" Give me a freaking break! Yeah, stand in the middle of the street and hope that some car will knock you over and knock some sense into your dtum head. style_images/master/snapback.png Well I can't feel anything else but pity for these women. The only thing they are guilty of is being misguided (by parents and/or society) while growing up. They imitate what they observe. Their concept of what a woman's life is like is already formed when they are 8-10. Their self-esteem is destroyed. It takes a lot of strength and self-determination to pull out of such a pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 I'm not, I have never been, and I will never be EQUAL OPPORTUNITY LOVER... style_images/master/snapback.png Steppenwolf? I consider that a stage in life. But lives differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Extra, what are you doing Friday night? style_images/master/snapback.png Let me put it this way. Santa won't bring me any presents this year. Eve, I'm sure the lady always thinks about leaving that scum. But the Armenian society always looks down at women like that. It's dumb, but that's how she was raised. Let's home the new generation would be a lot more educated when it comes to this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 duq menak Boghoqeq isk chboghoqorner@ mez het shat el lav aprum en nuiynisk 50 tary ahha teseq - http://armenianow.com/files/pub/288_01.jpg “Til Death Do Us Part”: Golden couple renew vows and recall 50 years together By Marianna Grigoryan ArmeniaNow Reporter Her white wedding gown greeted with kindness and smiles, and with her white hair gathered up under her veil, the bride, 73-year-old Margarit Dallakyan paved her way ahead. Fifty years ago she was a bride for the first time. Last Saturday she repeated the event. And, both times, Hovanes Chulyan was the lucky groom. It was in fact the couples “golden” anniversary, and to celebrate they duplicated the day they were joined, November 6, 1954. The “newly” weds celebrated with music of the zurna and dohl, with dancing and singing. The wedding party attended in cars decorated in festive colors; quite a change from the “rainy, sober day” Margo recalls from 50 years ago. “Then, I was taken away in a lumber truck,” she recalls. “There was no wedding gown, nor any proper conditions or gifts, but this latest one was the most gorgeous.” Here comes the bride! Here comes the bride! In 50 years, Margo and Hovanes have carved out a life, raised a family and have become grandparents. But on their first wedding, they didn’t even know each other. Hovanes had repatriated from Aleppo, and had made up his mind to get married, and the best choice turned out to be Margo from Ijevan. “At first Margo’s father did not want to give me his daughter, he did not believe everything would be good, but, thank God, it’s a whole life we live together shoulder to shoulder and are grateful to fate,” says Hovanes. “Only God can separate us, nothing else.” At last Saturday’s ceremony in St. Zoravor Church, iMargo, nnocent as a child, put gold rings onto her aged fingers – the rings were gifts from grandchildren, great grandchildren, relatives and sons. (Hovhanes and Margo have 4 sons, 15 grandchildren, 5 great grandchildren). “This diamond is my son’s present, another one is from my grandchild, and this royal one is my great grandson’s present” she explained with delight. Hovanes, also 73, told that when they were celebrating their 25th anniversary, they had promised God to make a big feast if they reached the 50-year jubilee of their wedding. “We have kept our word,” said Hovanes. “We have had a large wedding, kept all the Armenian traditions, and everybody was amazed.” Still smiling after 50 years. Still smiling after 50 years. Despite the amazement (and the reproach of some), the groom had insisted that the bride appear in a white gown and with proper decorations. Hovanes personally went to a wedding salon to pick out the gown. “One of the silk rustling gowns was long, with a long tail behind, and the other was short”, says Margo. “I chose the long one; it was more gorgeous. My grandchildren were holding the tail, and I was ashamed to look back, everybody was looking at us. Anyone who wanted to enjoy the celebration with us enjoyed it, whoever did not want to, didn’t.” More than 80 guests attended the “re-marriage”, which was catered by relatives. During the day, they looked back on 50 years of a union that has survived many changes. Fixing her flowers while she spoke, Margo said that for happiness and for a family to survive the wife should have strong nerves. Hovanes adds that love and the man’s devotion to family are also important. “We have lived in awful conditions, full of deprivation and sufferings,” Margo said. “But we have always tried to understand each other and find ways out of the situation, and, thank God, everything is good.” “Margo takes care of me,” adds Hovanes. “And we will live long together. I have never seen a joyful wedding like our last one. Now we have promised to make a more gorgeous wedding in 25 years on our Diamond anniversay, if God keeps us healthy.” It is a promise Hovanes also made before a priest last Saturday. The priest asked if Hovanes is the master to the bride. Replied Hovanes: “I have been for 50 years and will be for another 50 as well.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 what a sweet sweet story....so there is happily ever after... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 what a sweet sweet story....so there is happily ever after... style_images/master/snapback.png de hents estexen asell ays xosk@ mi bartsi choranaq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 the dont' say choranaq ... maybe they smoke something illegal,that could by why they are so dang happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 "mi bartsi choranaq" ? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 depends on if you are the kind of person who wil have sex out of marriage or not. also, i guess i should disclaim this excludes those who dont want to have sex.. (noone better give me crap about marriage not being all abotu sex, this is merely one tiny aspect, which infact is a driving force, atleast for me) also, one must admit religious beliefs contribute to this as wel. FOr me i would love nothign more than to be married at around 24 or such. its the only relationship, despite the hardships, that will allow you to fully in an intimate way love someone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Gevo, you should get married when you are ready. Some people are ready at 24 some at 34 and some at 44. (I just hope that I am still alive when I am 44. ) In general if you have not laid a solid foundation for your career and are not ready to support a family you should not get married. But to me sex and marriage have very little to do with each other.(this is just for me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 (edited) Well ofcourse i agree with that Azat, a solid career is neccessary. We cant live without money, and life will be hell then.. lol. Sex is not a reason for marriage no, but i wont deny that it is a driving force. Also, ofcourse your right, some people feel they arent ready, i have nothing against that, how could i>? that wouldnt make any sense, even thos who chose not o marry, infact in some ways ar praised by God. lol.. for me so long as my career settles well i chose to get married sooner, mid 20's like i said... but hey, essentially its not all my choice Edited November 20, 2004 by gevo27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 I don't understand people who say sex is a driving force for marriage. It's like they're placing too much importance on sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 (edited) I am sorry for not feeling pity for those women. They belong on Jerry Springer's show, sobbing and defending their husbands with the most moronic excuse "But I love him! Despite his brutal, narcissitic, deepshit nature, I know that somewhere deep underneath (yeah so underneath that our modern science won't be able to detect it even with X-rays) he's a really nice guy!" Give me a freaking break! Yeah, stand in the middle of the street and hope that some car will knock you over and knock some sense into your dtum head. style_images/master/snapback.png I sincerely apologize for the somehow harsh words, but I find your depiction of these Women unfair, disrespectful and simplistic. Of course, ending the life of a wounded person may be considered a solution; but, curing the wound is also an option! I can't help myself thinking that you 1- Fail to understand the social contract that is marriage 2- Lack the generosity to understand the pain of those who are confronted to a "partner" with an abusive behavior - men or women Your oversimplification of marriage reduces it to an mere adventure/enterprise - serious or not - between a man and a woman. It is not! That may reflect the "modern" understanding of marriage, but we already live in a Post-Modern World! There exists many different views on marriage. There are other "Actors" in the Social Contract that is marriage: 1- The Children. In fact, for many their are viewed as the Principal Actors. 2- The Immediate Families. In fact, marriage creates a bond between to families i.e. "Social Cells" and becomes a foundation of the Social Texture. For instance, the union of two compatible families MAY benefit a marriage, while the union of two incompatible families MAY undermine a marriage. (An extreme example would be the union of between Turkish and Armenian families.) 3- Social/Cultural Groups. Marriage facilitates - to a certain degree - an osmosis/link between different Groups. 4- ... [The above is NOT a definition of marriage and it obviously does not cover all aspects of marriage.] Many Actors - men or women - abuse their "rights" - not in its strict legal connotations. The abused Actor may have many reasons to endure pain for the survival of the marriage and its accomplishments. The following is NOT an exhaustive list: 1- The Future of their Children 2- The mental health of their Children 3- Financial stability or Fear of financial abandonment (like with an employer) 4- Fear of emotional abandonment. (I seriously doubt that women with Children would feel emotionally abandoned when leaving an overly abusive husband.) 5- Pride 6- A certain understanding of the "sanctity" of Marriage 7- The union of the Families 8- .... Unfortunately - some may say fortunately - I have to go! Edited November 21, 2004 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 I sincerely apologize for the somehow harsh words, but I find your depiction of these Women unfair, disrespectful and simplistic. Of course, ending the life of a wounded person may be considered a solution; but, curing the wound is also an option! I can't help myself thinking that you 1- Fail to understand the social contract that is marriage 2- Lack the generosity to understand the pain of those who are confronted to a " style_images/master/snapback.png No need to apologize, your views are your own I just don’t have to necessarily agree with them, nor do you have to agree with mine. I don’t fail to understand the social contract that is marriage. I just happen to disagree with social prescriptions of the institution which is supposed to personify only your own constitution and ideals. Nothing which hurts you may bind you based on the “social construct” unless you give your consent and turn over your individuality to satisfy some fabricated image of a matrimony which would appease the masses. That’s bullcrap. I lack the generosity? In this particular matter I do. The last thing to do is get in the circle hum and feel pity for someone who is willingly subordinating herself to her halfwit of a husband to comply with the “social contract that is marriage.” Why? I’ve seen it time and time again, women of such sort love to complain and feel sorry for themselves when in truth they secretly enjoy being doormats (call it masochism if you wish). Unless you are physically confined there is no way you can’t discharge yourself from something that inflicts pain and discomfort. Why do I lack compassion in my reasoning? Because I’ve met women of this sort way too many times. I don’t feel sorry for them, I understand their actions but I disagree with them with all of my passion. Somehow it seems that you are advocating carrying the burden of the oppressive marriage to preserve the sanctity of the socially imposed institution even if it entails subjecting yourself to violence and verbal abuse. I don’t understand the logic in that. And please don’t try to explain the institution of marriage if in fact you clearly indicate that marriages of today come in various formats. What marriage is to you may be something else to someone else. The only thing I’ve expressed in my previous post is a discontent with women who cry and complain about their abusive relationships as if they are so fed up, when in fact not even 200 tanks can force them to leave their husbands. Fine, you like to be abused ok, just don’t freaking whine to me incessantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 No need to apologize, your views are your own I just don’t have to necessarily agree with them, nor do you have to agree with mine. style_images/master/snapback.png Great! We agree on something! I don’t fail to understand the social contract that is marriage. I just happen to disagree with social prescriptions of the institution which is supposed to personify only your own constitution and ideals. Nothing which hurts you may bind you based on the “social construct” unless you give your consent and turn over your individuality to satisfy some fabricated image of a matrimony which would appease the masses. That’s bullcrap. style_images/master/snapback.png It's your personal choice, but you should allow others to make their own. Individuality vs Collectivity has always been at the center of my concerns. Individuality and Collectivity have different dynamics and evolves differently. As a rationalist you should understand that a Collectivity is regulated by a different set of rules and conventions. I'm the eternal non-conformist, but I respect and feel comfortable with Social Values and Social Contracts, unless they are imposed and oppress me. If you feel that Marriage is imposed then you should blame the System, not the abused victims. I don't feel threatened by the Society, so I don't fight it! I lack the generosity? In this particular matter I do. The last thing to do is get in the circle hum and feel pity for someone who is willingly subordinating herself to her halfwit of a husband to comply with the “social contract that is marriage.” Why? I’ve seen it time and time again, women of such sort love to complain and feel sorry for themselves when in truth they secretly enjoy being doormats (call it masochism if you wish). Unless you are physically confined there is no way you can’t discharge yourself from something that inflicts pain and discomfort. Why do I lack compassion in my reasoning? Because I’ve met women of this sort way too many times. I don’t feel sorry for them, I understand their actions but I disagree with them with all of my passion. style_images/master/snapback.png The word is GENEROSITY, not PITY! The difference is fundamental! You don't have to agree with their choices. You don't even have to offer them your help or understanding, but should you offend them and almost insult them? Can it be that somehow you feel threatened and insecure and feel the need to ascertain yourself by expressing your quasi-contempt of these women? I wonder what Freud would say! Somehow it seems that you are advocating carrying the burden of the oppressive marriage to preserve the sanctity of the socially imposed institution even if it entails subjecting yourself to violence and verbal abuse. I don’t understand the logic in that. style_images/master/snapback.png No! Where did you read that? And please don’t try to explain the institution of marriage if in fact you clearly indicate that marriages of today come in various formats. What marriage is to you may be something else to someone else. style_images/master/snapback.png You seem to be aware of freedom of choice and tolerance, only when it's about your freedom and your choice. The same applies to the choices others make! The only thing I’ve expressed in my previous post is a discontent with women who cry and complain about their abusive relationships as if they are so fed up, when in fact not even 200 tanks can force them to leave their husbands. Fine, you like to be abused ok, just don’t freaking whine to me incessantly. style_images/master/snapback.png No, your comments were far more disrespectful and condescending! There may be many reasons why an abused woman - or an abused man - would behave so. That should not justify your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 One always wants what one does not have and having it reminisces the past what he did have.You can't have it both ways.Marriage is not for everyone and I respect people who don't want kids or cerificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ararock1 Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 I am sorry for not feeling pity for those women. They belong on Jerry Springer's show, sobbing and defending their husbands with the most moronic excuse "But I love him! Despite his brutal, narcissitic, deepshit nature, I know that somewhere deep underneath (yeah so underneath that our modern science won't be able to detect it even with X-rays) he's a really nice guy!" Give me a freaking break! Yeah, stand in the middle of the street and hope that some car will knock you over and knock some sense into your dtum head. style_images/master/snapback.png It seems so easy for people to judge another person's situation, but when was the last time you walked in another person's shoes. Can you imagine her life before she was married? this woman who you are quick to ridicule probably dreams a hundred million dreams of the beauty of her childhood or perhaps she floats across the landscape of a life she never knew, dressed business casual and driving thru the night sky with the top down, Only to awake to the nightmare that is her own. Yes, we are responsible for our own destiny, but when YOU finally fall in love with that one person, let's hope that the words spoken, that convinced YOU to marry him, are the words that describe the truth of that man's heart. And even then the years slip past us, stealing our innocence in a land that is not our own and we find comfort in this mortal coil through man made mischief. Let's all drink to that, at the very least, we can admit that we would rather pass the time scurrying for our own piece of the pie, then split it with another. I don't pity that woman, instead I applaud her courage for all those years left undone, all those words held in left unspoken, Her tears that spilled past the seams of her heart and now the real story is who plays her part. We are all broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.