as i see it - Pt. IV

[ara baliozian]

a turkish reader writes:

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Dear Ara Bey,

 

 

 

Your above essay did not escape my “delayed reading” since I was on a vacation and now I am trying to catch up with the newsletters in my absence.

 

 

 

Since your essay is primarily addressed to the diaspora Armenian community, I cannot have much right of say, other than informing that I very highly respect your sincere efforts and the irony of your realistic observations. I enjoyed very much your remarks in “Contradictions”, “Scoundrels” and the analogy of “fatherland and fartland”.

 

 

 

Particularly your paragraph “Ideas and Non-Ideas” speaks up the very truth and the main obstacle for any durable reconciliation between folks or flocks. Most people don’t know, but you and me perfectly know that as long as the “fund raising campaigns for hate museums and monuments” (ending in wrong pockets) will not end, this kettle of dispute must be kept boiling, so every one can have a cup of the money-soup.

 

 

 

“Mandarins”! How politely you explain! “Underground Notes”… You know Ara Bey, the greatest contribution in the discovery of truth and trying to wipe (one of the) dirty past dramas of WAR chaos, is being done again by “honest Armenians” like the youngsters who started and continue “TurkishArmenians,” yourself, and just a very few which we can count by fingers.

 

 

 

“Sunday Sermon” and “Victimistan” hits the bull’s eyes, but I am afraid, very few brains can think by logic, and read other views to arrive to personal conclusions.

 

 

 

Unless we use “values common to all” such as decency, sincerity, compassion, peace and harmony despite differences (religion, language, culture, ethnicity, nationality) we are doomed to be the very small minority but the “few who stay away from lynching frenzies”.

 

I have not seen yet any “ANCA” announcement, which does not end with “on-line donation”.

 

K. rgds

 

Aya

 

 

 

 

 

[ara baliozian]

to the moderator:

when i spoke of an armenian forum from which my things are deleted

it was not about this one

but the following:

\

http://www.topix.net/forum/world/armenia

[Twilight Bark]

Our fascists are not only pathological liars but also unspeakable cowards because more often than not they don't identify themselves in discussion forums on the Internet. They adopt instead such revealing pseudonyms as “Twilight Snarl,” “Midnight Growl,” and “Morning Phlegm,” when Jack S. Avanakian would be the most appropriate designation.

When asked why he is afraid to write under his own name, one of these heroic specimens explained, “To avoid being the target of Turkish retaliation.” Which of course is utter nonsense because they hide themselves even when abusing their fellow Armenians. They hide themselves even when they write against me, as if I were some kind of mafia don with a gang of hit men at my disposal. To these gutless mice I say: Even if I were a mafia don I wouldn't waste a bullet on them because they are too contemptible to deserve anything but the words “lying cowards.”

Very subtle, dear Mr. Baliozian. Such a silly outburst is not a substitute for a rational defense of your thoughts. Quite alarming, considering that the reason for such a poisonous response was a critique of one statement, which wasn't even yours; it was borrowed. One statement out of tens of thousands! And it was not a total repudiation of it either; it was simply an elaboration over its misuse to reach an unjustified conclusion regarding the collective nature of Armenians versus what I consider superficial similarities of individuals. You couldn't tolerate even the slightest dissent, and yet you talk about tolerance.

 

One has to conclude that you are no different from fascists or communists. You are intolerant, you use the basest and most cynical methods of propagandistic writing, and are at best after some crumbs of personal gratification. You are in this for your ego.

 

As far as anonymity, I don't see what the actual identity has to do with anything. I didn't threaten you behind an anonymous moniker, I didn't declare that I was an important bigwig, and I didn't write anything that necessitated the disclosure of my address and phone number. If you have something intelligent to say to me, you can always use this forum, just as easily as you can apparently use this forum to say disgusting and stupid things. What is it? You want to be able to say "my pen is bigger than yours"? What other purpose would a full name and biography aim to accomplish in this particular case?

 

[Twilight Bark]

a turkish reader writes:

*******************************

 

Dear Ara Bey,

 

 

 

Your above essay did not escape my “delayed reading” since I was on a vacation and now I am trying to catch up with the newsletters in my absence.

 

 

 

Since your essay is primarily addressed to the diaspora Armenian community, I cannot have much right of say, other than informing that I very highly respect your sincere efforts and the irony of your realistic observations. I enjoyed very much your remarks in “Contradictions”, “Scoundrels” and the analogy of “fatherland and fartland”.

 

 

 

Particularly your paragraph “Ideas and Non-Ideas” speaks up the very truth and the main obstacle for any durable reconciliation between folks or flocks. Most people don’t know, but you and me perfectly know that as long as the “fund raising campaigns for hate museums and monuments” (ending in wrong pockets) will not end, this kettle of dispute must be kept boiling, so every one can have a cup of the money-soup.

 

 

 

“Mandarins”! How politely you explain! “Underground Notes”… You know Ara Bey, the greatest contribution in the discovery of truth and trying to wipe (one of the) dirty past dramas of WAR chaos, is being done again by “honest Armenians” like the youngsters who started and continue “TurkishArmenians,” yourself, and just a very few which we can count by fingers.

 

 

 

“Sunday Sermon” and “Victimistan” hits the bull’s eyes, but I am afraid, very few brains can think by logic, and read other views to arrive to personal conclusions.

 

 

 

Unless we use “values common to all” such as decency, sincerity, compassion, peace and harmony despite differences (religion, language, culture, ethnicity, nationality) we are doomed to be the very small minority but the “few who stay away from lynching frenzies”.

 

I have not seen yet any “ANCA” announcement, which does not end with “on-line donation”.

 

K. rgds

 

Aya

Well, then. This must mean you have been right about everything you have ever written lately. One cannot think of a better and more objective criterion for infallibility.

[Twilight Bark]

If our destiny was to be extinct, we are a success story. But if our destiny was to be an empire, we are a miserable failure.

I remember once when I said as much, one of my most combative, sriga detractors said: “We are a civilized, peace-loving people; we are not bloodthirsty imperialists.”

If the quote you attack is incorrect, it means that Armenians are uncivilized, peace-hating, bloodthirsty imperialists. Does that sound right to anyone with any semblance of objectivity? Here is a nation that, in its 3500 year history had 15 years of imperialism, during a power-vacuum due to the implosion of the Seleucid kingdom. I for one am no admirer of Tigran "the Great". I am however a fan of objective evaluation of empirical evidence history supplies.

 

If that's what we are, why is it that we are taught to brag about our empire under Dikran the Great, and our political and military leaders in the Byzantine Empire?

Ah, that's easy. First of all that's because what passes for "community leadership" is composed of a few well-meaning but largely clueless souls who can't even answer the simple question "what's the point of remaining Armenian". They think glorifying the few instances of "glory" of the kind standardized and valued by their host cultures as "merit" is the best way to prove our worth. Pathetic indeed, but has nothing to do with demonstrating that " Armenians are uncivilized, peace-hating, bloodthirsty imperialists". It just means we have a long way to go for real self-reflection and analysis. It just means we are too clueless about our own merits, as well as faults. Maybe we are too busy cooking and eating.

 

As far as I know, there has never been a nation that voluntarily gave up its imperial ambitions and chose to be subservient to ruthless foreign despots.

Indeed. The trick is to never aspire to it. When I say "aspire", I mean "really aspire". Not to pretend to aspire to it, mind you. Not to say it would be really nice to have such power. But to really lust after it, to have a natural tendency to organize in pursuit of it, and to be willing to risk life and limb in that pursuit. That, you will find, is rather absent in Armenian history. Those individual Armenians who had those tendencies did best when they joined other people's empires and served them. Armenians collectively have only rarely coalesced in pursuit of other people's lands and wealth. Simple observation. Not propagande. Not wishful thinking. Just cool-headed observation.

While I love the fact that Armenians have not been an imperial people, I dislike the corrolary of that trait. They also have not produced enough adventurers and risk-takers.

[garmag]

Dear Mr. Baliozian,

You must have been born with an armour of patience...

 

How incredible, under the disguise of higher intellectual gibberish, the patronizing and arrogant tones of some barks, think they will have the upper hand just by repeating stupidities, so long as they end up having the last say!

It reminds me of night time barks that one hears and wonder "what on earth are the dogs barking at!"

I had thought that such games ended in kintergarden...alas some folks never grow up and persist stubbornly rummaging the proverbial yoghurt till the sh*t comes out!.

 

 

By the way I am not seeking employment by you in the ranks of your mob army...even though it seems I am acting as one with no regrets...

Lest I am accused of being a worshipping disciple of yours, let's set the record strait right away... I prefer to be accused as a disciple of Ghandi or Gurjieff...

 

As for our Turkish commentator, how subtly he nuances the excesses of Armenians only?

 

The gentleman sounds a first class subversive in disguise! Fishing in muddy waters...

This of course is my humble opinion after reading between the lines of his missive...

Da Astvats qez aroghlutyun yev haradevanq qrutyunnerut!

Sirov,

Garo Harmag

Edited October 7, 2008 by garmag

[ara baliozian]

Tuesday, October 7, 2008

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AS I SEE IT

*****************

It is the easiest thing in the world to discriminate a reader with a genuine difference of opinion from one who likes to make a nuisance of himself. Most words in the English language have more than one dictionary definition. It is the context that determines their meaning. By deliberating choosing a definition outside the context, one may disagree with any statement, and this is exactly what smartalecks do.

*

Writing became a pleasure on the day I gave up not only all hope of popularity, fame, and fortune, but also of minimum wage.

*

One reason I suspect the motives of our academics is that they owe their position and income to “chairs” endowed by our benefactors, that is to say, the very rich, who look down at the very poor as lazy, inferior beings who will never amount to anything.

*

Speaking of blood-sucking exploiters and white trash: According to a Canadian pundit, if the McCain-Palin ticket wins, it will be the triumph of the very rich and the white trash – a clear-cut case of politics making strange bedfellows. That's the dark side of the situation. And now the Pollyanna side: If McCain and Palin win, they will usher in a golden age of political satire, the White House will become the stage of a perpetual sitcom, and they will be an endless source of inspiration to stand-up comedians.

*

All Armenian political parties are alike in at least two important respects: (one) none of them represents the majority, and (two) all of them are more like clubs of mutual admiration on the outside and a vipers' nest on the inside.

#

[Twilight Bark]

Dear Mr. Baliozian,

You must have been born with an armour of patience...

 

How incredible, under the disguise of higher intellectual gibberish, the patronizing and arrogant tones of some barks, think they will have the upper hand just by repeating stupidities, so long as they end up having the last say!

It reminds me of night time barks that one hears and wonder "what on earth are the dogs barking at!"

I had thought that such games ended in kintergarden...alas some folks never grow up and persist stubbornly rummaging the proverbial yoghurt till the sh*t comes out!.

 

 

By the way I am not seeking employment by you in the ranks of your mob army...even though it seems I am acting as one with no regrets...

Lest I am accused of being a worshipping disciple of yours, let's set the record strait right away... I prefer to be accused as a disciple of Ghandi or Gurjieff...

Garo, can you actually comprehend what you read? An anti-intellectual (and he doesn't even know it) in awe of a pseudo-intellectual. That's truly humorous. You made my day.

[Twilight Bark]

Tuesday, October 7, 2008

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AS I SEE IT

*****************

It is the easiest thing in the world to discriminate a reader with a genuine difference of opinion from one who likes to make a nuisance of himself. Most words in the English language have more than one dictionary definition. It is the context that determines their meaning. By deliberating choosing a definition outside the context, one may disagree with any statement, and this is exactly what smartalecks do.

I think I'll start reading you again, Mr. Baliozian. No, you don't need to thank me. You are annoyed because you cannot defend a certain point. It has nothing to do with "contexts". As I said before, I agree with much of what you write. And then I disagree with some of what you write. Sometimes the point of disagreement is subtle but no less important than a glaring one. And sometimes you slip in a whopper in there among the usual truisms that makes one question alterior motives. But I have yet to see you defend a statement without using cliches designed and honed no doubt over the years for the garden variety simpletons. When that doesn't work, your next strategy is to turn it into a mud-throwing contest and move on.

 

I don't mind if you ignore my critiques of your critiques. I will simply insert my corrections whenever I have the time and the inclination. I am sure you have enough admirers to get you through your day.

[nairi]

TB, if Ara is right 90% of the time, and you feel inclined to correct the remaining 10% of what he writes, does that make you 100% right?

[Twilight Bark]

TB, if Ara is right 90% of the time, and you feel inclined to correct the remaining 10% of what he writes, does that make you 100% right?

It raises the possibility that I am 100% right about the 10% in question.

Nice to hear from you.

TB

[nairi]

What about the remaining 90% which you claim is also right?

 

I don't mind hearing from you either as long as you keep your personal vendetta against Ara in the closet. Differing opinion? Fine. Attacking and insulting? Not fine. Let's face it: you have a way of imposing yourself on someone else that does not always come across as charming, let alone friendly.

 

Having said that, I also think that Ara can be über-sensitive at times, but that might have to do with the fact that he has been attacked and insulted on so many occasions in the past forty years that his crocodile skin has turned to mush. Still, that does not excuse his often stubborn unwillingness to see that not everyone who replies to him in the negative is his mortal enemy.

[Twilight Bark]

What about the remaining 90% which you claim is also right?

You sound like you made a great "gotcha" revelation. From the very beginning I said my problem was with the fact that he slips in falsehoods into a soup of truisms.

 

I don't mind hearing from you either

If that's your response and attitude, I have second thoughts.

 

as long as you keep your personal vendetta against Ara in the closet.

Personal vendetta? Personal vendetta? From the very beginning I started with a polite interjection. He first gives some vanilla platitude that does nothing to address the issue. As soon as he realizes that he's not going to make a convincing defense of the point I challenge he switches to dismissal and brushing off. When that doesn't work, he dehumanizes his critic. I am very irritated by this pseudo-intellectual, that is true. Once he reaches the end of his second phase or the beginning of the third phase of "attack", I no longer feel obligated to be polite towards him. But a "personal vendetta"? Please.

 

Differing opinion? Fine. Attacking and insulting? Not fine.

Just read this exchange that attracted you here. Who is the insulter? My challenging a statement of his is not an insult under any definition. Only a fascist or a communist would confuse dissent with insult. It seems to you, however, fine for him to call me sub-human.

 

Let's face it: you have a way of imposing yourself on someone else that does not always come across as charming, let alone friendly.

As I said, I always start polite. However, I have little patience in the face of arrogant stupidity or vulgarity. My aim is not to be the most charming person on the planet. My purpose here is to help crystallize my thoughts through civilized but vigorous and rational discussion, and offer corrections on what I consider important falsehoods, when I have the time and the inclination. I am not here for personal gratification or affirmation.

 

Having said that, I also think that Ara can be über-sensitive at times, but that might have to do with the fact that he has been attacked and insulted on so many occasions in the past forty years that his crocodile skin has turned to mush. Still, that does not excuse his often stubborn unwillingness to see that not everyone who replies to him in the negative is his mortal enemy.

You don't say! After the completely unjustified and disgusting insults he hurled, I am fully justified to think that he is a disgusting little intellectual midget. And that goes for anyone who idolizes him. There you have it.

 

[garmag]

Garo, can you actually comprehend what you read? An anti-intellectual (and he doesn't even know it) in awe of a pseudo-intellectual. That's truly humorous. You made my day.

 

Hey I was supposed to be ignored by night time barks...

Alas some will insist attacking shadows for the fun of it, even if it makes barking a nuisance to start with neighbours, and lastly themselves...

We try to make everybodoy's day LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Still with garod and love,

Garo

[Twilight Bark]

Hey I was supposed to be ignored by night time barks...

Alas some will insist attacking shadows for the fun of it, even if it makes barking a nuisance to start with neighbours, and lastly themselves...

We try to make everybodoy's day LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Still with garod and love,

Garo

You sound really sophisticated.

I extend back to you the same "garod yev ser" you offer.

[nairi]

As I said, I always start polite. However, I have little patience in the face of arrogant stupidity or vulgarity. My aim is not to be the most charming person on the planet.

 

There you have it. You admit it youself. If the first reply does not please you, polite or not, you start to snarl at the person. I'm surprised you wonder why people respond in kind after that.

[DominO123]

Great, some fighting (we don't have this here anymore ), I have been served; a good way to beat my insomnia.

[Twilight Bark]

There you have it. You admit it youself. If the first reply does not please you, polite or not, you start to snarl at the person. I'm surprised you wonder why people respond in kind after that.

Thanks Nairi. I'll keep that in mind in venues where I do try to be charming, which is also called "real life". And I do try my best and mostly succeed to remain charming in the face of toxic people in real life.

 

Look, if the guy responds dismissively or rudely, I'll respond in kind or just bugger off (which is what I usually do when I don't think the subject warrants the pain and the suffering on my part). If the guy becomes even more outrageously rude in response, that is somehow my fault? You are asking me to keep being polite in the face of abuse, but not anyone else. Nonsense.

[garmag]

Great, some fighting (we don't have this here anymore ), I have been served; a good way to beat my insomnia.

 

 

My dear Domino,

Why not calling it sparring...

Lets for the next 48 hours ban the use of fighting and see if a polite exchange of opinions is possible amongst Armenians or other nationalities...

 

We are a peace loving nation, my proof being a single bloodthirsty emperor was enough for Astvats to decide that giving Armenians another Tigran Mets might spell the end of all that is NOT ARMENIAN!

 

I BEG OF YOU FORUM FOLKS PLEASE DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF ANTI ARMENIANISM FOR THE ABOVE STATMENT!

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO OBSERVE THE BACK OF A TIGRAN METS COIN AND TELL ME WHAT YOU SEE!

ALSO DO NOT COUNTER ARGUE THAT THERE WERE OTHER MORE BLOODTHIRSTY EMPERORS...THIS DOES NOT JUSTIFY OUR EMPEROR DOING WHAT HE DID TO OTHER NATIONS.

If a million murders justify one murder where would the world be today...

Humbly I beg to differ in the best of hypocritical british diplomacy...

Kind regards to all.

Garo el Halabi.

[nairi]

Thanks Nairi. I'll keep that in mind in venues where I do try to be charming, which is also called "real life". And I do try my best and mostly succeed to remain charming in the face of toxic people in real life.

 

Look, if the guy responds dismissively or rudely, I'll respond in kind or just bugger off (which is what I usually do when I don't think the subject warrants the pain and the suffering on my part). If the guy becomes even more outrageously rude in response, that is somehow my fault? You are asking me to keep being polite in the face of abuse, but not anyone else. Nonsense.

 

Sorry to say, but objectively speaking (that is, from what I saw), you kind of started the hurling of insults.

 

And yes, if you ask me, the best attitude preferably is not to respond in kind if that means stooping down to the level of one's interlocutor or lower, which is what started to happen to this thread on both sides.

[ara baliozian]

Wednesday, October 8, 2008

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MARX

*****************

Many nasty things have been said against philosophy by philomorons. But consider the case of Karl Marx who single-handed (with a little help from Plato, Hegel, and Engels) reshaped the worldview of billions of people from China to Cuba, and with it, the political map of the world.

And Marx was wrong.

Now then, imagine if you can the damage a philosopher who is right can inflict on mankind and tremble.

*

NAREGATSI

****************************

Only Armenians who have not read a single line by Naregatsi think of me as anti-Armenian, or too self-critical or analytical. There is more self-criticism in a single page by Naregatsi than in everything I have written so far.

Sartre said “Hell is other people.”

Naregatsi could have echoed Flaubert's “Bovary c'est moi,” by saying “L'enfer c'est moi.”

To Dante, hell is an operatic horror show.

To Naregatsi, it's an invisible place deep within us.

Jesus said, “The Kingdom of God is within you.”

Naregatsi says, “So is the Devil's Empire.”

*

DEFINITION

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Literature: Art irritating life.

*

SHAKESPEAREA & CO.

****************************************

In Shakespeare, we have the confident voice of a rising empire;

in Milton, one of the most eloquent defenders of free speech;

in Narekatsi, the moans and ululations of a disintegrating kingdom;

in Sylva Kaputikian, a political opportunist and dupe

who operated on the assumption that Sovietism was the universal religion of the future;

in Gostan Zarian, the whole gamut of Armenianism:

from intense nationalism bordering on chauvinism

to disenchantment, resignation, rage, and the silence of despair and disgust.

#

[Yervant1]

Great, some fighting (we don't have this here anymore ), I have been served; a good way to beat my insomnia.

I'm glad that there are no more constant uncivilised arguments happening. In my opinion whatever needed to be said (insults, name callings etc. ect.) is said, so please do continue the debate in a respectful manner no matter how much we disagree with what has been said. Every person is entitled to their opinion so please attack the opinion but not the person.

 

Thanks.

[Twilight Bark]

objectively speaking (that is, from what I saw), you kind of started the hurling of insults.

Then I assume you don't mind showing what you consider the starting point of "hurling of insults", and I'll see if I agree. I don't mind being proven wrong in a rational and polite manner. One snag is that our definitions of what constitutes "insult" probably differ, although I am not sure. Incidentally, you said "when the answer doesn't please you ...", and got me thinking about that. You know what kind of answer would please me? A thoughtful, intelligent one, not one that agrees with me. One that does justice to the question that I raise. A thoughtless, stock answer does not fall in that category. That indeed displeases me. But then, I don't feel entitled to be pleased by strangers. By the same token, I don't feel obligated to please rude strangers.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Twilight Bark

[ED]

Great, some fighting (we don't have this here anymore ), I have been served; a good way to beat my insomnia.

 

 

this kind of fruitless discussions are exactly what gives me Insomnia!!!!!

 

where egos come first then common seance! this is sad, really sad,

Dear TB and Ara, we are Armenians and lets have productive and fruitful exchanges.

 

[Twilight Bark]

lets have productive and fruitful exchanges.

Dear ED, that's all I ask.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Twilight Bark