Alternate Energy Sources & Global Warming/cooling

[Harut]

I had been wondering about this issue for long time and had forgotten about it for a while, until I heard a news story on radio that was related to it.

 

and the issue that i was wondering about is...

from one of the basic theories of physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only be transformed from one type to another. ok.

what is the main source of energy on the earth? the sun, mostly in form of heat.

solar panels... in simple form, they take solar energy and turn it into electric energy.

the energy that we get from the sun is finite, i presume, isn't it?

so, if some part of this energy is sent on turning into electric energy now, does that mean if we have enough solar panels it will result in global cooling as this energy will be subtracted from the energy that is used to heat up the earth?

 

 

the story that i heard on radio was talking about wind-powered generators and how they can potentially become an obstacle for airflow and thus have effect on global climate, more precisely warmer climates in equatorial regions and cooler climate in polar regions.

 

any ideas?

[Sip]

Here's a quote from Encarta just to have some numbers in place:

 

Solar energy travels to Earth through space in discrete packets of energy called photons (see Electromagnetic Radiation). On the side of Earth facing the Sun, a square kilometer at the outer edge of our atmosphere receives 1,400 megawatts of solar power every minute, which is about the capacity of the largest electric-generating plant in Nevada. Only half of that amount, however, reaches Earth’s surface. The atmosphere and clouds absorb or scatter the other half of the incoming sunlight. The amount of light that reaches any particular point on the ground depends on the time of day, the day of the year, the amount of cloud cover, and the latitude at that point. The solar intensity varies with the time of day, peaking at solar noon and declining to a minimum at sunset. The total radiation power (1.4 kilowatts per square meter, called the solar constant) varies only slightly, about 0.2 percent every 30 years. Any substantial change would alter or end life on Earth.

 

But Harut, what are you going to do with that electrical energy? It's all going to be converted into heat anyway so I don't think you have anything to worry about. That's why the Las Vegas strip is usually something like 10 degrees warmer than the desert around it. If you've been there in the summer, you know what I'm talking about!

 

And as far as wind turbines preventing air flow ... they are really not that different than large trees if you ask me but I don't know.

Edited November 11, 2004 by Seapahn

[DominO123]

I had been wondering about this issue for long time and had forgotten about it for a while, until I heard a news story on radio that was related to it.

 

and the issue that i was wondering about is...

from one of the basic theories of physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only be transformed from one type to another. ok.

what is the main source of energy on the earth? the sun, mostly in form of heat.

solar panels... in simple form, they take solar energy and turn it into electric energy.

the energy that we get from the sun is finite, i presume, isn't it?

so, if some part of this energy is sent on turning into electric energy now, does that mean if we have enough solar panels it will result in global cooling as this energy will be subtracted from the energy that is used to heat up the earth?

the story that i heard on radio was talking about wind-powered generators and how they can potentially become an obstacle for airflow and thus have effect on global climate, more precisely warmer climates in equatorial regions and cooler climate in polar regions.

 

any ideas?

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The question is no, since the energy on the heat spectrum you are converting will someway or another be reconverted into heat. Another part of the energy is not on the infrared spectrums(heat) so there is no problem here.

 

All the process is much complext, since there are many spectrum in the light emited by the sun, but in terms of heat balance it will be pretty much balanced.

 

If you are thinking of this as a method to fight global warming, it won't work I'm afraid.

[Harut]

The question is no

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i know what the question is. i need an answer.

 

 

j/k

[DominO123]

i know what the question is. i need an answer.

j/k

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Oups!

[Stormig]

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cf...28133/story.htm

[Guest abcdefghijkl]

so, if some part of this energy is sent on turning into electric energy now, does that mean if we have enough solar panels it will result in global cooling as this energy will be subtracted from the energy that is used to heat up the earth?

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If we presume it were possible to create that many solar panels, then the answer would be no, even if it resulted in less fossil fuel being consumed. In fact it would probably lead to the exact opposite - to even more global warming - these things have to be manufactured, they don't grow on trees!

 

Recent gobal warming is mostly the result of the recent release of energy that had been received from the sun over millions of years and then converted and stored by the Earth, via the dead bodies of various creatures, into hydrocarbons, etc. If you want to cool the earth - plant trees, not solar panels

 

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/virtualani/graphics/spacer2.gif

Edited November 12, 2004 by abcdefghijkl

[Nakharar]

Recent gobal warming is mostly the result of the recent release of energy that had been received from the sun over millions of years and then converted and stored by the Earth, via the dead bodies of various creatures, into hydrocarbons, etc. If you want to cool the earth - plant trees, not solar panels

 

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/virtualani/graphics/spacer2.gif

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Excellent idea but I have no hope at all. It's a little too late. We have crossed the point of no return.

[Guest abcdefghijkl]

Excellent idea but I have no hope at all.

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Me too

Most countries have reached the stage of placing their last few trees in a tree museum, along with their last surviving wild creatures.

[Twilight Bark]

People, people, you are missing the bigger picture. If you want to leave your grandchildren truckloads of money, buy up dirt cheap real estate near the arctic circle. Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Greenland (pretty soon it will be really green, well at least during summers), Siberia, or Tierra del Fuego in the southern hemisphere. Really long-term investors might consider Antarctica for summer residence. I don't know about you, I know where the smart money should be going.

 

Only half-joking.

Edited November 12, 2004 by Twilight Bark

[DominO123]

People, people, you are missing the bigger picture.  If you want to leave your grandchildren truckloads of money, buy up dirt cheap real estate near the arctic circle.  Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Greenland (pretty soon it will be really green, well at least during summers), Siberia, or Tierra del Fuego in the southern hemisphere.  Really long-term investors might consider Antarctica for summer residence.  I don't know about you, I know where the smart money should be going.

 

Only half-joking.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Maybe its time that I bye some properties in North Canada, there are places that are nearly free.

[Nakharar]

People, people, you are missing the bigger picture.  If you want to leave your grandchildren truckloads of money, buy up dirt cheap real estate near the arctic circle.  Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Greenland (pretty soon it will be really green, well at least during summers), Siberia, or Tierra del Fuego in the southern hemisphere.  Really long-term investors might consider Antarctica for summer residence.  I don't know about you, I know where the smart money should be going.

 

Only half-joking.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Strange I have exactly the same thoughts when watching a documentary on temperate non-coniferous forests. Canada will finally become the US afterall. And the Chinese will grab Siberia which they have coveted for so long.

[Nakharar]

What scientists should urgently do is to concentrate on research of fuel cell application in cars if we are going to have a future at all and prevent further preemptive strikes by the US.

 

This site seems pretty interesting: http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/

 

The reference section and education kit is definitely worth a look.

[Nakharar]

General Motors and China's SAIC Agree to Work on Hybrid and Fuel Cell Vehicles

 

General Motors and China's SAIC Agree to Work on Hybrid and Fuel Cell Vehicles

30 October 2004

 

Author:

Provider: AFX News Limited

 

 

BEIJING (AFX) - General Motors Corp (GM) said it has signed an agreement with partner Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp (SAIC) to pursue the development and commercialization of hybrid and fuel cell-powered vehicles.

 

GM said the agreement expands on a plan it announced earlier this month to cooperate with SAIC on the development of a hybrid fuel-powered bus - part of a drive to improve energy security and reduce pollution in China.

 

"The agreement represents another dimension in the developing partnership between GM and SAIC," Rick Wagoner, GM chairman and chief executive, said in a statement.

 

"It will help stake out a leadership position for GM and SAIC in the development of energy-efficient and environmentally clean vehicles in China. This is in support of the long-term strategic plan of the Chinese government to promote a sustainable automotive industry."

 

Under the agreement, GM and SAIC will co-develop a demonstration vehicle, based on the US automaker's HydroGen 3 fuel cell vehicle. The two-year demonstration will be launched in Shanghai early next year.

 

Hybrid vehicles typically combine a conventional gasoline engine with an electric motor to provide greater fuel efficiency.

 

allison.jackson@xinhuafinance.com

 

 

http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCellToday...02,5161,00.html

[Nakharar]

Quantum Ships First Fuel Cell Vehicle to U.S. Army

 

29 October 2004

 

Author:

Provider: Fuel Cell Today

 

 

Quantum Fuel Systems Technologies Worldwide and the U.S. Army Tank-Automotive Research, Development and Engineering Center's National Automotive Center unveiled a high performance, fuel cell off-road vehicle at the annual meeting of the Association of the U.S. Army in Washington, DC. The "Quantum AMV" (Alternative Mobility Vehicle), nicknamed the "Aggressor," is a fuel cell vehicle designed and manufactured by Quantum at its California operations for the U.S. Army under contract with the NAC. This vehicle provides significant advantages to U.S. troops for high mobility in stealth operations.

The Quantum Aggressor runs on compressed hydrogen utilising Quantum's proprietary Type IV impact resistant carbon fiber storage tanks. A 10 kW fuel cell is coupled with an energy storage module in a parallel hybrid configuration, which provides power on demand to a high-torque electric motor driving the rear-wheels. Preliminary tests have shown that the acceleration of the Quantum Aggressor is far superior to an unmodified gasoline internal combustion engine-powered all-terrain vehicle, reaching 40 miles per hour twice as fast. Ungoverned, the Quantum Aggressor is capable of reaching speeds of 80 miles per hour. Quantum's electronic control system imposes torque and speed limits on the drivetrain to enhance traction and safety.

 

The Quantum Aggressor can be driven to the intended destination and then be used as a silent power generator to produce high quality electricity for telecommunications, surveillance, targeting, and other battlefield equipment. The vehicle does not produce any emissions throughout the different operating modes.

 

http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCellToday...02,5157,00.html

[Nakharar]

Professor Ibrahim Dincer Receives Top Award for Efforts to Improve Fuel-Cell Vehicles

 

20 October 2004

 

Author:

Provider: Canada NewsWire

 

 

OSHAWA, ON, Oct 20, 2004 (Canada NewsWire via COMTEX) -- As gas prices hit new highs, an engineering professor with the University of Ontario Institute of Technology (UOIT) has received one of Ontario's highest research honours for his cutting-edge work involving practical fuel-cell technology for automobiles.

 

Dr. Ibrahim Dincer, a professor in the Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science, is the first UOIT faculty member to receive a Premier's Research Excellence Award (PREA), a distinction that brings with it $100,000 in research funding from the province and $50,000 in matching funds from the university.

 

Dr. Gary Polonsky, the university's President and Vice-Chancellor, said the award adds to UOIT's growing reputation for world-class research. "We're thrilled that Dr. Dincer has received this prestigious award," he said. "History will record that he was the first to do this at Ontario's newest university, and that his brilliance and dedication have set the standard for all research at the university."

 

The Premier's Research Excellence Award was developed in 1998 to help Ontario's best researchers attract exceptional graduate students, post-doctoral fellows, and research associates to their research teams. The program also aimed to promote innovation among the finest researchers in the province.

 

"I've received awards in the past, but this is a historical landmark for the university, which makes it even more special," said Dr. Dincer, who has previously received funding from organizations such as the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council and the AUTO21 Network of Centres of Excellence.

 

Well known in his field for his pioneering work, Dr. Dincer has authored or co-authored several books and has written more than 250 refereed journal articles, conference papers, and technical reports. He has chaired many national and international conferences, symposia, workshops and technical meetings, and has delivered more than 30 guest lectures and keynote speeches. Dr. Dincer is an active member of various international scientific organizations, and serves as editor-in-chief, associate editor, regional editor, and editorial board member for a variety of respected international journals. He is also a recipient of several research, teaching and service awards.

 

Dr. Dincer is recruiting a team of highly qualified personnel to assist in his current research project, Assessing and Improving Fuel-Cell Vehicles through Sustainability, Thermodynamic, Environmental and Life Cycle Analyses. As part of his project, he is assessing the use of fuel-cell vehicles as a viable option to automobiles powered by fossil fuels, and is looking at the environmental and economic impacts and the technological challenges associated with using fuel-cell technology.

 

"Research in fuel cells as an alternative means to power vehicles is very important to the Province of Ontario and indeed Canada," said Dr. Kamiel Gabriel, the university's Associate Provost, Research and Graduate Programs. "With the escalating price of fossil fuel, coupled with its vulnerability to ups and downs on the global political scene, fuel cells present a clean and viable solution. I am delighted to see this prestigious recognition given to a UOIT star."

 

Dr. Dincer's award is an important milestone for UOIT's Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science, said Dr. Marc Rosen, the Dean of the faculty. "His work directly complements our strategic research thrust in energy," he said, "and this award will allow him to expand his research significantly in ways that benefit both society and industry."

 

About the University of Ontario Institute of Technology

 

As the province's newest university, the University of Ontario Institute of Technology provides a unique combination of academic knowledge, vibrant student life, leading-edge research, and hands-on skills. The university offers career-focused undergraduate degree programs in the fields of business and information technology, health sciences, social science, applied science, the pure sciences, engineering, and education. It is also developing leading-edge research and graduate programs, and is Ontario's first laptop-based university. Sharing selected services with Durham College, UOIT welcomed its first students in September 2003. To find out more, visit www.uoit.ca or call 1.866.844.8648.

 

VIEW ADDITIONAL COMPANY-SPECIFIC INFORMATION: http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/orgDisplay.cgi?okey=84520

 

CONTACT: For further information: Media contact: John Schofield, Communications

 

and Marketing, (905) 721-8668, ext. 2162, John.Schofield(at)uoit.ca

 

 

http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCellToday...02,5126,00.html

[Nakharar]

The Environmental Protection Agency, DaimlerChrysler and UPS Deliver Zero-Emission Vehicles

 

19 October 2004

 

Author: Anonymous

Provider: Professional Safety

 

 

Originally Published:20041001.

 

As part of a government-industry partnership, EPA, DaimlerChrysler and UPS have announced the availability of the nation's first medium-duty fuel cell delivery vehicles. This event marks the beginning of the second phase in a multiyear fuel cell testing program, first launched at EPA's National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory in May 2003. Since February this year, UPS has been using DaimlerChrysler's smaller "F-cell" vehicle to deliver packages in Ann Arbor, MI.

 

The program's second phase places full-sized "Sprinter" fuel cell vans into commercial use in both Michigan and California. By putting these larger vehicles into commercial service, the partners can evaluate fuel cell performance and durability under real-world, year-round conditions, including ways to safely and cost-effectively fuel the vehicles.

 

EPA's National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory in Ann Arbor hosts the only generally accessible hydrogen refueling station in what is expected to be a network of stations across the Midwest. EPA's lab is also the only federal facility capable of running official fuel economy tests on hydrogen vehicles.

 

For more information about fuel cells and vehicles, visit www.epa.gov/fuelcell.

 

 

http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCellToday...02,5117,00.html

[Stormig]

Ibrahim Dincer sounds like a Turkish name.

[ArmEngine]

The Issue is blown out of proportion

 

Here is a list of different types of Civilizations "Kardashev Civilizations" .. Humans have not yet reached Type I civilization but they are close we will reach Type I status before most resources are depleted. As we reach Type I and mature in there the Global warming and all the bad side effects will no longer be relevant.

 

 

Type I: Controls the energy of an entire planet. This civilization can control the weather, can prevent earthquakes, and boasts mastery of an energy factor of about 10^16 watts. Though advanced, a Type I civilization still faces danger of extinction by natural disasters such as comet impacts.

 

Type II: Controls the energy of an entire star. It has the ability to directly mine a star. This civilization will have explored completely its own star system and will have established a number of colonies in neighboring star systems. The energy factor mastered by a Type II civilization is about 10^26 watts, or a 10 billion-fold increase over that controlled by Type I. A Type II civilization is virtually immune to extinction.

 

Type III: Controls the energy of an entire galaxy. Such a civilization can manipulate space-time and possesses almost godlike powers. It would be threatened with extinction only by the death of the universe itself (and even this might be avoided). Energy mastery for a Type III civilization marks another 10 billion-fold increase, to a level of 10^36 watts.

 

MORE INFO TO READ