nellie

quote:Originally posted by Harut: nellie jan, don't think that Armenian men/husbands are bumb or "hetamnats". most of them avoid this kind of modern approaches to the life because of loud-mouth neighbours.(or similar "thing").(but again this is a "hetamnatsutyun" too ) but when there is even a small change/reason they agree to let their wives to have a very modern lives. why? because that's the correct thing to do, and they know it well. Harut jan, i agree with u completely. the armenian community is the way it is because we care too much about what everybody else thinks (I am no exception to this). if we want to fit in we've got to go with the norm. but this is inch vor chapov hetamnatsutyun, something that's got to change, because often what's right for me may not be right for my neighbors. One thing i've got to disagree with u on though, is that most of the time armenian men don't realize that this is the right thing to do, this is just what benefits them at the time, like Alla's husband.

no one that famous gets to be where they are by being angelic. we just gotta understand one thing, these people aren't ordinary people, they're not like us. Most (if not all) of these movie stars and musicians have to be a little ho-ey. why? because this is what sells. plus, who knows, each one of us might act much worse than Britney Spears if we were in her shoes. we never know what, or how we'll be until we're actually in the situation. but I agree with Antranig on one point, a woman can definately look sexy and classy at the same time.

Alright guys, I am calm, didn't mean to get carried away. I've just seen too many people get hurt because of false, stereotypical assumptions. that's all I meant to say.

was it just me, or did anybody else find Alla's story interesting? first, the husband is threatened by Alla's independance--she can support herself by working and driving. NOT surprisingly, Alla obeys him so gracefully and quits the job and throws her driver's license to the side. Then, when the husband needs Alla to drive, it's all of a sudden ok, because he will be resting his butt, while Alla runs the errands. HOW TYPICAL! I wont be surprised at all if all of a sudden he gets enlightened tomorrow and tells her he thinks it's ok for women to work and sends her back on the job. why not? she will work during the day to support him, drop off and pick up the children during her lunch breaks, cook after work, and just when she thinks she's all done, she will have to drive him around from bar to bar. of course, Alla won't think there's anything wrong with this. after all, she has a very open-minded, liberated husband.

Gayan jan, looks like you really want answers to your questions. since no one is willing to reintroduce the topic, i think i will. romance is pretty hard to define. basically, i agree with berj, romance is not about dinner and candles, it's much deeper than that. why is romance so sought after in our society? well, everyday life is just too damn routine. we need some spontaneity in our lives, and romance provides this. you wanted us to share our romantic experiences, but what is romantic to me may seem silly to you. and besides, what's romantic is also intimate, and if we share it w/ the public it may not be so romantic anymore, lol.

quote:Originally posted by wh00t: Lucid, I agree, she's very cute. Still a hoe, though. Since you're so sure in believing that she's a hoe, one might actually think that you might know her personally. Since I know that you don't, maybe you can keep quiet on the accusations and stereotypical assumptions. I'm furious with the way that all you (excuse me, actually, most of you) Armenian men think. Just cause she's sexy and famous doesn't mean she's a bitch. I actually think there's nothing wrong with Britney Spears, she conducts herself just fine. Imaging somebody talking that way about your sister, or your girlfriend, or your wife. You wouldn't like it? now would you?

quote:Originally posted by MosJan: Chgitem te ova bayst te aseq tor shorer@ hagni amota which part of her body, besides from her belly, is revealing? I think she's pretty well covered up for a pop princess who earns millions of dollars a year.

It would be beautiful if all Armenians could repatriate. Unfortunately, circumstances in Armenia don't make this an easy decision. However, I hope one day (most likely not our time), we will have a strong and healthy nation which will not be so difficult to live in, and then maybe we can repatriate. In the mean time, i believe Armenians in the Diaspara are doing a tremendous job.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Dear TB, But if you really want to remain Armenian you have to repatriate, short of that it is guranteed that in a few generations very little will be left of your Armenianess. Not true, Boghos, I disagree. Perfect example is of that Iranian Armenians, who have been living in Iran for over 5 centuries. I have friends that recently moved to the U.S. from Iran, they speak fluent Armenian, and believe it or not have held on to their roots, unfortunately even more so (sometimes) then the rest of my friends that I left behind in Armenia. If your dedicated to holding on to your heritage, it can be accomplished. No body said, however, that it would be an easy task.

I myself, as a young Armenian woman, am proud of any Armenian who is successful and retains his/her identity. I am ashamed of the ignorant Armenian audience who finds it disrespectful erb Zhaklin-@ kotrtvaz hayerenov-e ergum ev erb andin barevum-e parskastani zhoghovrdin. Zhaklin was so honored when she won her award that she couldn't stop talking. Unfortunately we can't say the same about many of our other fellow Armenian artists, like ruben hakverdian, who finds his award not as an honor, but as something to make money off of, or that stupid person who accepted the award on hakverdian's behalf. These two basically just mocked the awards show, as well as everybody watching it. I myself was born in Armenian and grew up in the U.S., but i'm knowlegeable enough about Iranian-Armenian history, to say that with all my being, I honor them.

quote:Originally posted by MosJan: demq@ vat chi havata havanum em, sakayn AMA el bavakanin araj er gnatsel chhshvats sxal titrosneri, yev himmar hosti kaseyi naxord tarineri het hamemat bavakanin lav er, bavakanin mrstanakner jisht eyin, sakayn yete best artsit@ Tatan e, best albom@ onchpes karor e urishin@ linel kam best produser@ urish mek@ qan SHARM GTAK, yev inchu bolor artistnerin chen @endgrkel, hents inq@ ELON@ vori yerger@ yes shat em havanum arjani er 1 kam aveli mrtsanaki isk dra ter@ um hasav ??? haxverdyanin vori mrtsanak@ BArsegyan records@ 1 tarov vartsu e talsi uremn GArni records, + PE-Ko + Barsegyan + Narek = AMA ?? isk ur mnatsin muysner@??? de drami masin xosk chka bavakanin $$$ tsaxsel en, yev arajin angam linelov satelaytov tsutsadrvets , yev inchpes ? parskakan channalov yev parskakan reklamnerov, menak mi 10 angam aram asatryani yev artashi reklam en tsuyts tvel. ba en parskahay kin@ vro HAyeren angam chi yergum, na inchpes mrtsanak statsav vorpes Haykakan Arvestaget ?> Kotratvats Hayi achker yergelu hamar ?? te parskahay liunelu yev parskakan TV-um tsanotner unenalu hamar, isk en Garshokov n@vagor@??? vor jrov garshok er n@vagum ??? yerevi mi hanrahayt HAyi Garoshok er yerel /?? yev kam Harodman jamanak Andin inch iravunq uni parskeren parskastani jorovrdin barevalu , minchev HAyeren chxosel@, kaseyi vro yerevi parskakan TV/in mi inchvor mi ban partq en yerel yerevi... Fransyahay yergjuhin 3 mrtsanak ??? haskanum em HAy e sakayn mezanits qanis@ n@ra masin giten ??? yev kam albomi kazmi hamar mrtsanak@??? katakner en . skayn norits em asum aveli lav er kazmakerpvats qan naxord tariner@, yerevi te jamanak harst e, amen inch lav klini, amen inch mi angamits chi linum,,, norits yev norits B+ husov hajord tarinerin aveli lav klini,,, lav chlini menq ho ester enq mihst patrast q@nnadatelu . I agree with you on one point, the show was definately an improvement from the years before. However, i don't feel as if you, or me, are knowledgeable enough to discredit the award winners. The votes may not have been accurate (due to computer glitch), but the organizers know better than us what they are doing. the parskahay ergchuhi, that you're referring to is Zhaklin. she won the award for hay arvestaget, because she was deserving of it. If you researched the matter a bit further, you'd find out that Zhaklin is not a singer, she sang hayi acher for her own enjoyment, and she did not win an award for this. Zhaklin is a song writer. I give her and her parents a lot of credit becuase she was born and grew up in Iran, in fact her ancestors were there for over 500 years (since the discovery of the Americas) however, they were able to hold on to the Armenian culture for over 5 centuries. sure, she may not speak fluent Armenian, but the fact that she speaks it at all is remarkable, same goes for Andy. we should be proud that we have an Armenian woman such as Zhaklin who is so loved and respected in the Iranian market, she is one of the best (if not the best) Persian songwriter, along with Martik, and yes, Andy. I am ashamed of the handful of Armenians who started booing at her from the audience. True, she talked longer than she should've, but this gives us no right to insult her.

One thing I forgot to mention, Twilight Bark, in answer for your question about positive armenian traits, is family in the Armenian household. The biggest reason why i'm proud to be an armenian, is becuase of the strong connection and attachment I have not only to my immediate family, but also to extended family. Grandpas and grandmas, aunts and uncles, all take part in my everyday life. this is surprising to non-armenians, who are used to being kicked out of the house at age 18, remembering their family only during the holidays, if even this. This connectedness to our families and to each other, is what keeps us unique.

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark: From Harut And Nellie I get the opinion that the only way for a child to learn being an Armenian is by "learning by doing". I agree. However, I also want to see if there are theoretical reasons for wanting to stay Armenian. Compelling traits that are luring, regardless of whether the environment is Armenian. Can we come up with an abstraction of Armenian traits that are unique and positive (I don't mind discussing the negative ones, but that is a different thread ) ? Hagarag thinks that the Armenian culture is uncool. I do not think that it is uncool. However, I can see that many people would perceive it as such. Perceived "cool"ness is very much correleated with the perceived strength. Make Armenia and Armenians strong (or at least look strong), and it will be "cool". It is a bit more complicated than that; but not by much. In any case, it would be very useful to probe into Hagarag's reasons without being judgemental. There may valuable lessons there. [ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Twilight Bark ] Dear Twilight Bark, the Armenian culture has many compelling traits unforseen by any other race or ethnicity. Take our dance, for example. have you ever seen any other cultural dance resembling ours? unenk shalakho, bert, hayozz aghjikneri naz parer. Enroll your child to an armenian dance group, see how much they like it. sovoretsru zavakit artasanel. no other culture has the art of poetry reading like we do. when your child comes home from school and tells you about an american war hero, tell him/her about David of Sassoon, about Andranik *****. these and many more to come, too much to tell. make your child feel proud to be an Armenian.

quote:Originally posted by hagarag: It would not be so difficult for parents to instill Armenian culture if it was not so "uncool. Greeks and even Israelis are similar to us, but their youth find a culture that is "cool" yet ethnic. Why do we remain such an old fuddy-duddy "uncool" culture? Very unfortunate for you to say this. And i have to say, anybody who says the Armenian culture is "uncool", must not know much about it. Look into Armenian history, what's so uncool about it? look it all we've contributed to art, music, literature, sports, dance, theatre, poetry, and much more. true, there's been times when i've felt embarassed to say that i'm Armenian, due to unfortunate situations that have arisen because of certain stupid people. but then i've looked around me, you can find stupid individuals in every nationality, there are lots more to be proud of. our culture may seem "uncool" to you, but whenever I tell stories from Armenian history or culture, my non-Armenian friends are astonished.

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark: Dear Harut and Nellie, You provide good answers that I can relate to. But how do you explain it to a young child born in the diaspora? There is a choice to be made by him/her at some point, regarding the "dominant" identity. Should one regard oneself as American/French/Whatever first, and say "oh yeah, my parents are Armenian", or say "I am Armenian, and I am a good citizen of Whateveria"? It is easy for someone born "Armenian". Not so obvious for a child growing in a powerful, "cool" culture, such as the United States or France. So, how do you explain it to a child? Or can you? That is, is there more to it than being a collection of the things we are used to as we grow up? [ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Twilight Bark ] Dear Twilight Bark, this is yet another tough responsibility laid upon parents, to pass on their culture and identity to their children. However, when you really think about it, it's not that tough afterall. Although many people I know of have lost the Armenian culture, there are certain things that have kept me Armenian. For example, Armenian has been the only language spoken in my home, my father always said, learn English, learn it well, but use it only outside of the home. Another thing, I grew watching the Armenian channels on t.v. True, most of the time, especially during the early 90s, these programmings sucked, but nevertheless, it helped me tremendously in maintaining the language, learning the culture, learning Armenian history, news from Armenia, etc. My parents have a huge library filled with Armenian novels and books and biographies, often they had to force me to read these, but now I'm happy that they did. They taught me about famous Armenian artists, and writers, etc. If you devote yourself to being "Armenian", so will your children.

I remain Armenian, because it is who I am. Good or bad, perfect or flawed, it has been embedded in my nature. Armenian is how I think, Armenian is how I believe, how I behave, how I speak. Voch mi lezu chi aynkan harazad inchkan harazad-e im mayreni lezun. I take pride in my background, without it I am lost. At the same time, I work on improving all that I can, all that I see wrong.

I go to Church, just like many of you, about two or three times a year, Christmas, Easter, etc. I don't follow everything in the Bible, I don't even really believe the truthfulness of the Bible, and I definately disagree with some preachings of the Bible. Do I still consider myself a religious person, especially a Christian. I definately do. to me being a Christian is being true to myself, loving and caring for my family and friends, (and yes sometimes even strangers). To me religion is a set of values, morals, which i set for myself and follow. I love the Lord because he loves me. God gave us a beautiful world filled beautiful things, the only way we can take advantage of the beauty the world and God have to offer is to experience everything. Sometimes, or often I should say, try new things hands us some trouble, but those that are wise realize their problems, and learn from them. I have a set of morals that are unbreakable, this is what makes me Christian.

This is an extremely interesting topic, but one that unfortunately has no clear-cut answer. Why do we have religion? (I think this was one of the topics posed by one of you, maybe MJ). We have religion because a lot of people need it. Religion, THE BIBLE, is here because most sould would be lost without it. i don't believe the Bible is the absolute word of God. thousands of years ago, when manking was becoming corrupt, the people running governments and the Church needed something had to be done to keep people in check; thus the appearance of the Bible. is this a bad thing? Definately not. the Bible paves a path, a healthy lifestyle, which people can follow, and which undoubtedly willl save many people. but should the words of the Bible be taken word-for-word, we would have to sit home all day and do almost nothing but love one another and pray to God, and I agree that by these standards, none of us would be true Christians.

quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII: Drinking is not a sin, drunkeness is a sin because it is an altered state of how God made you. Having a beer is fine, my church sells it at its Armenian Festivals. The Armenian Church also uses wine during Communion. Christ's first miracle was making wine from water. Hi TigrannesIII, At this point into this discussion I would like to thank you for taking some frustration out of me and clarifying to everybody that drinking is not a sin, only drundenness is. thank you.

hagarag, i'm very sorry about this. unfortunately, this is the case throughout the world; the powerful and the wealthy overpower and mock the powerless and the poor. fortunately, however, i can see that this has not stopped you from mingling with armenians, because here you are at "hyeforum". this makes me happy.

quote:Originally posted by hagarag: Thorny Rose, I was born into an Armenian Catholic family that attended a Roman Catholic church, as the only Armenian Catholic church was over 100 miles away. We rarely visited this church and never visited the Armenian Gregorian church. After my parents had a major falling out with the Catholic Church when I was 7 years old, I was raised in a local Protestant Church as the Armenian Evangelical Church was also far distant. I never went to any Armenian events in my youth, annual family affairs being my only involvement with Armenians outside the immediate family. Given the distance of Armenian schools and cultural events, a group of local Armenians of all religious and political persuasions established a local Armenian school to teach the children their culture. Thus, a weekly short Armenian school experience for a few years was my only involvement with the Armenian community. It was my mother, only 1/2 Armenian, who arranged this as my father wanted us to have nothing to do with his people. it was a shame that your father wanted to have nothing to do with his people, and it is a shame that you're repeating his statement. hats off to Bogos, who realizes that chauvanism is human nature, not just armenian nature. all people have flaws, regardless of their cultural background. your father's opinion is most likely based on a single personal experience, but if this were the case, i would personally be bitter about every single race i've ever come into contact with. i don't respect any person who denies his/her background; a wise person would realize the flaws of his people and shy away from these flaws, not from the entire race. maybe this is the problem of armenians, we are too critical and not often encouraging. hagarag, i'm very curious, what exactly happened to make your father feel so bitter about armenians? maybe you can tell me.

i got into an argument with a few of my guy friends today over this topic. so i'm really interested, "why do women change their last names when they get married?" isn't this just another form of ownership, the man becomes the sole proprietor of his wife? to me, this is insane. my husband shouldn't expect me to change my last name, my entire identity, and take on his. what's wrong with my own?

hi luco, sorry about your problems. the guys gave u some really good advice, but do u really want to know exactly what happened? isn't that going to hurt u even more? i say, he doesn't deserve u, nor does any other guy who doesn't respect u. don't give him another chance, he'll just take advantage of it. just laugh in his face and go your own way. pretend u don't give a shit, then he'll be sorry.