Arpa
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You mean "goood dog Mutafoglu" don't you?
Who said there is no such thing as Christian(?) Turk???
He may know something we don't. He may know that one of these days Istanbul will be returned to its rightful owners. Even then it won't be us. We never owned Istanbul.
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Erzurum = Erzerum = arz-al rum = arz-ar'rum
Not sure if the "z" is plain z or z[.]... But arz means place (Arabic) and Rum means Roman/Greek. Place of Romans/Greeks. At least that was what was told me.
Very close!
True??
In the Arabic "ard/ardh/arz" does mean soil, land, country. Not to confuse with the Armenian word "art/ard", dasht, hand, field that is derived from "agro", even if the two may coincidentally point virually to similar meaning.
In Armenian histriography Karin is mentioned as Karno Dasht or Karno Shamb, the marshes of Karin as there was an extensive tract of marshy swampy land. Some believe that Karin is an evolved name of a tribe known as Karenitis. This may partially answer the question about the origin of the personal names of Karen and Karine.
In 421 the Byzantian emperor Theodosius II recognizing the strategic importance of the land/city fortified the walls and the fortress and renamed the Theodosopolis.... During the 6th c. the Persian king Khosrow conquered the city and enslaved the inhabitants and the Catholicos. In 628 the emperor Hercalius rebuilt the walls, and he invited the Catholicos to an ecclesiastical convocation and tried to have the Armenian church unite with the Orthodox by professing diphysitism. It failed. In 647 the Arabs conquered the city and renamed it Kalikala(expensive castle?). In 752 once again Emperor Constantin V took hold and moved many Armenian artisans and merchants to Constantinople. According to the Arab hsitorian Ibn Hawkal Karin was semi-autonomous within the Armenian kingdom under the rule of Ashot and Smbat Bagratuni. In 949 it was again conquered by Byzantium.
In 1049 the Seljuk Tughril invaded the city of Ardzn and razed it to the ground forcing the Armenian inhabitanst to migrate to Karin/Erzrum. The newly settled Armenians renamed the city Ardzn in memory of their ruined city, but to differentiate it from the original Ardzn the new one was known as Arzn al Rum (Arabic appellation), to mean Byzantian or Roman Arzn.
As mentioned above one would be tempted to ascribe it to the Arabic word ard/ardh/arz, this may be purely coincidental.
Even if Karin is now known as Erzrum, Arz-el-Rum it is is still the heir to the Armenian city of Arzn and it is Armenian.
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What's so noble about Nobel anymore!
We have known well that the Nobel prize is heavily politicized.
Politics most foul!!
Many say that Damadian was jilted beacuse of his fiercely devoted Christian faith, in fact some articles say that he passed over because he is a creationist and that any scientist worth his fame cannot be a creationist. Hey! It is his five cents he can belkieve anything he wants. How did his religious fervor diminish his scientific value?
I hope he sues everybody's pants off!
Damadian. One of many sites.
http://reason.com/links/links100903.shtml
Politics most foul again!
Granted, maybe this lady is worth it and merits the prize but you can rst assured that there may have another million who also do. Why she now?
Politics. This is nothing short of inciting a revolution in Iran. That may not be such bad thing in my book, those Idioollahs have outlived their welcome for quite sometime. Yet again using the noble name of Nobel for politics smells as foul as a cesspool.
Shirin Ebadi. One of many sites.
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Not to forget that the origin of "yar" is a matter of debate too.
As proof to that neither Ajarian not Sukiasian even mention the word.
Before passing judgement I checked in the Turkish dictionary and it defined "yar" as gorge, ravine. Then I checked my Pers-Eng one and sure enough this is waht it says. Yar=friend, companion, partner, aide, mate.... sweetheart.
Oh, Sip, as to "aman-chaman" may be we can sing another song. How about ; "Khorotik morotik, khorotik morotik im yarn e mek hatik e khumar e"
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... and why do people sometimes say "aman chaman".
Yeah Sip-Meapahn.
When is the last time you said Aghchik-Maghchik?
Yaman-chaman is no different. It is just a silly rhyme.
Maybe not. However, both "aman" yaman are Turkish. Read on.
I had written about this some time ago when we were talking about "Yaman Yar". Shall we sing it? Sarer@ kanach khotov yaman yar. Sirt@s lqn e karotov, yaman yar. Yar@s indznits bez arats, yaman yar. Tun k@ga handi hotov, yaman yar......
That time we also talked about the town in the Nor Bayazit region now known as Adiyaman. In Turkish "ad" means "name", and "yaman" means "awful". At one timw, during Armenian days the town was known as Got. The Turks did not like that name because of obvious reasons, because in their stupid language the latter means, well, Gamavorig told us why. So they changed the to Adiyaman to mean the "name is awful". The above is from Ajarian-Majarian.
According to my little dictionary aman means mercy as in pity, and pardon, as in "pardon me!" and "for goodness sake". In fact aman is from the Arabic and it is based on aman/iman, trust, faith. It is commonly used in words like "amanat", trust. When something is lent it is called amanat.
As to "yaman", besides the above meaning of awful the same dictionary says it means "strong/violent". It is used in that sense when they decribe hot pepper as being "yaman".
So, Sip-Meapahn, maybe "yaman chaman" has a meaning after all, besides being a silly childish rhyme.
Also sometimes "aman" may be used as an expression of exasperation as in "aman off"!!!
If I were to say they are both Turkish I'm sure some will argue, so let me be the first to argue. Who can say that the Turks did not learn them from us?
Now, yaman yar, if you don't believe this it will be your turn to wash the amans.
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That's a very unlikely outcome.
The likely outcome is that in the event of any azeribaboon aggression Baku will be occupied and renamed. Those oil fields under Armenian control wont be bad.
During and after the fall of Aghdam the rumors were so loud one could hear it all the way here that Artsakh and Armenian forces had camped at the outskirts of Yevlakh and Gandzak wainting for a nod from Moscow that would not come. However the prospect of losing both of those territories was the main reason for the ceasefire and the status quo.
I just looked at that map above and took a closer look at the so called refugee centers and refugee tents. Take a look again an tell us why they have tents all the way the border of Daghstan and Russia.
And Vahan, why stop at Nakhijevan, can't you see that a few miles away is Ararat and Ani? That is was some countries need total separation. That gooseneck connecting Turkey to Nakhijevan that the Turks traded with Iran can be blocked with one good sized tank or stick od dynamite to blow that bridge over Arax.
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Arpa,
I thank you for the support;)!! It seems you have realized exactly all the reasons why I think this would be a great story! Also, I agree that every nine books about Armenia out of ten regard the genocide, and that this should change. I would love to create something that Armenians can be proud, and give youthful Armenians in America the proper pride in their people that they should have.
I will keep you posted on my progress;)
-Hratch
Please do.
You are so right about our young deserving better. How many generations of our children have gone to sleep with bedtime stories of blood and gore, massacres and genocides. They deserve better, they deserve heroic models and epic stories.
If I were writing the story I would consider a title like Tigris Tiger, or The Tiger of Tigris.
And please don't be discouraged by comments about his military inadequacy. We have this proclivity to examine our own under the microscope while at the same deifying others. It is rumored that Julius Caesar was a babbling idiot yet look at his legacy.
With wishes of much success to you.
Arpa
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This may be the best map of ARMENIA, I said Armenia that we have seen in quite sometime. Note the brighlty colored areas, the so called occcupied territories. It could be only better if that other territory to the west of Meghri were to be brightly colored as well.
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Of all the ridiculous articles, maps of so called occupied territories, and even more inane claims with maps showing Azerbaijan occupying the southern half of Armenia as well as the southern half of Georgia, I found the following article most entertaining for lack of a better decription. Is there no limit to absurdity?
http://assembly.coe.int/documents/workingd...02/edoc9444.htm
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Barew bolor Hayerin ew Hay Webmasternerin !
Ete nkatel eq amen haykakan Site-um ka gone mek hat Haykakan Yereguyn.
Bajts amen Webmaster ajd gujner@ / aveli correct - yerangner@ / inqn e woroshum.
Aselov "karmir" , "kapujt" , "narnjagujn" ban chi aswum... hamenajn deps im hamar
Chem karogh patkeratsnel, vor ajd 3 gujner@ - AZGAJIN GUJNER - inchwor mi "Gospromdesignstandart"-ministrutjuni koghmits chi hastatwel....
Ow karogh e ognel ew berel official tvjalner ajd gujneri koderi masin - CMYK or RGB ???
Shnorhakal em.
Haias
Dear haias, barov es eker.
Harts@ hstak che.
Indz aydpes k@ thvi the harts@ ayn e the chapanishner kan guyneri iskakan erang@ bnoroshelu.
Is the question whether there are spectrographical and chemical definitions of each color and hue? The red; what kind of red? Crimson, blood red, China red or other? The blue; navy blue, sky blue or else? The Apricot, yes, apricot *you will why below), golden, or else?
Below some sites about the subject but I doubt if any of them adresses the question at hand. Perhaps the one about the constitution and law.
History and description;
http://www.armenianheritage.com/hiflag.htm
Another, same?
http://www.stanford.edu/~baronian/hay/hist-ang.html
Constitution and law;
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/am.html
Also note that this subject was discussed before.
Related subject here;
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WOW!
I must be dreaming.
Am I reading this right?
You mean there is one other that feels as I do?
Dear Huffzone, first off, WELCOME! You are the legendary "fresh air" that will rid us of this suffocating atmosphere of death and destruction.
You must be reading my mind.
In fact, only a couple of days ago I was reading about Tigran in general, but in particular about his Romance with Cleopatra. No, not the Cleopatra of the Nile but the Cleopatra of the Tigris River, his paramour and queen, the daughter of Mihrdat VI, king of Pontus.
The reason? I have had this urge to write, or someone to write about the most illustrious luminary of our entire history. Tigran the Great, the Tiger of the Tigris' life and exploits can match any. What with adventure of his youth, his dreams of deliverance from oppression, his dreams of uniting the ragtag and divided Armenia, the romance, the sex and violence, his failures and successes, his defeats and conquests. All ingredients of for a first class docu-drama.
This notion has intrigued me for quite some time. Of all the so called heroes of our history Tigran has all the ingredients of a world class blockbuster movie.
I have been toying with the idea of writing an epic about him but I find myself unqualified based on the fact that my sources are meager and far in between, my lack of quality time and my literary and technical inadaquacy.
I did not even dream that there would be a day that someone would finally have the courage to go against the grain and suggest a similar scenario.
Below you will see my anger and indignation about the sorry state of our cukture. One of many times that I have expressed similar thoughts.
Here is one the latest(the relevant segments). You may search some of my writings with similar sentiments.
http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...opic=7131&st=20
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Some time ago, on another forum it was suggested that the "Armenian identity is based on the Genocide". I had to strongly disagree as I did not quite understand the premise. To me a suggestion like that is tantamount to the "caricature" of an Armenian that MJ describes above so eloquently. As to the presmise of our identity being
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severely reprimanded for it that of all the shameful sagas in our 4000 year history the Genocide is the MOST SHAMEFUL. Even Vardananq when we lost every soldier including the Commander pales in comparison to the shamemefulness of the Genocide. Yet there are those who breathe, eat and drink Genocide every minute of their lives. The Genocide was not only the most shameful it also virtually put a stop to our culture, I mean CULTURE. Whether one realizes or not out of every 10 books written since then nine are about it. We have not produced even one memorable book, piece of art etc. Even the latest one by Balakian... guess what? About the Genocide.
When did we become such losers that we gloat in our tragedies? My genocide is bigger than yours!? Only today on
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Groong an item listing all the earthquakes since such year. Every time there is an earthquake somewhere someon
Victim mentality?
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Dear Huffzone, I wish you much success, perhaps you would be our "savior", the savior of our culture of that has been all but dead and genocided. I may not have the technical ability and the essential sources, you seem to have the essential ingredients for a great docudrama and the technical confidence.
GO FOR IT!!
I will be your greatest fan and stand behind you in any capacity I can.
Slap us! Kick us! Do whatever is necessary to get us out of this quagmire that some call "genocide". Let us show the world that even if they can kill our bodies nobody has yet found the way to kill our spirit.
I WISH YOU SUCCESS!!!
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Granted, heryas in general are not to be trusted, but don`t exaggerate. You can`t blame them for everything. How come there is an Armenian section in Old Jerusalem? How come Armenian studies are offered in some Jewish universities?
Don't bet too much money on it lest you go bankrupt.
The Armenian sector of Jerusalem and the Vanq have a history of over 1500 years.
In the meantime Jerusalem was under the jurisdiction of Babylonians, Romans, Assyrians, Mameluks, the Caliphates and ..... Ottomans, and British. Did I leave anyone out?
How long has it been under Hrya domination? Fifty years? Don't count your chickens yet!
You may not know this but a Christian sector in a Hrya state is a contradiction in terms at best.
As to Armenian studies, there is one in Ankara too.
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Teutonic Knight?
Another Hye-na in sheep's clothes?
Deutchland Uber Alles?
Deutchland?
Teutons were a medieval Germanic tribe, in Latin they are knows as Tedesco/Tedesci. Many sites describing them, search unders Teuton/Teutonic.
Why Deutchland Uber Alles, Germany Over All? Hitler's cri de guerre?
In time Teuton evolved into Deutch the native name for German and Germany.
Is our "aspet" a Grey Wolf in the clothes of an HYE-na?
Don't let his smile, knowledge of the Hye language deceive you, people learn languages for a variety of reasons, some out of love for it and others....
The only Armenian trait he has not yet capitalized on is our enormous noses which has a very useful function, to smell rats from a distance.
See for yourslves:
Teutonic Knights;
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclo...n/m0020756.html
Caricature; Note the white robes and black crossses. Don't we know these people under another name? KKK?
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/4775/tknight.html
Son of a Turk? An excerpt from below site;
Membership of this mostly German-speaking order was composed of various, distinct classes: knights, priests, and other brothers (lay brothers, sisters, and "familiars"). There was a large number of people who supported the professed members of the Order, ranging from auxiliary knights to slaves. The highest ranking were secular knights, serving for free. Turcopoles (Greek for "son of Turk") were originally probably lightly-armed, half-breed cavalry whose name applied to Turkish mercenaries employed in the Byzantine army, later the term was adopted by the military orders. There were attendants called squires (knechte), and sergeants-at-arms. Footsoldiers were usually coerced from the local peasantry. Sister-aids (halpswesteren) were employed as domestics as were halpbrüderen; they took religious vows. Married and single lay domestics also were employed by the Order. Artisans and laborers (e.g., gardeners, carpenters, masons) worked for charity or wages. Many serfs and slaves were owned by the Order.
http://www.ku.edu/kansas/orb/encyclop/reli...ic/opsahl1.html
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Hey man! I got relatives in Assbackestan (Uzbeckistan)
LMAO. true story......Where is eshekistan? Is that one with the capital of ashakapat?
go ahead shoot me! :) -
English is my fourth language and I can VERY comfortably say it is the one which I have mastered the most (by HUGE margins) ... of course not counting any computer languages. So I guess I don't agree with that statement.
Dilemmas, dilemmas and dle yaman.
It may be time to define what we mean by first and second. Which comes first?
Although I may have learned Armenian first at this point my Armenian has been so enriched borrowing/translating from English. So? Which is my first and second language? My English may be embellished at times borrowing, translating from Armenian as well but not as much as in the first scenario.
How about we compromise and say mutually.
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''That sounds like some of the Diasporan kids trying to speak Armenian to impress the Yerevantsis.'' (Teuton)
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As for Arpa, I might be wrong, but the "gor" is just added as the equivalent of the "ing" in English.
Example: What are you saying? - Inch gessess kor?
What say you? - Inch gessess? (also means "really?" or "what do you think about it?'')
I don't think you read what I said about "kor" above. I may have used the wrong word but I did say that perhaps erroneously we use "kor" to impart a contiuous sense of tense as in "ing" . That may be why Sebastatsis use the "k@" at times in the beginning and at other times at the end like in "k@ berem" and "berem k@". But "gor/kor" sounds very ugly. We may consider adopting the Sebastia vernacular and use the "k@" at the end to make it sound like "I am bringing", i,e berum em, I am in the process since sometime "k@ berem" may sound like "I may/will bring.... sometime, maybe!" Inshallah! Ter@ kami! God willing!
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i think it was MJ who once said that if you claim to know Armenian, but Western, not Eastern, or Eastern, not Western, then you simple don't know the language. and i agree. (or you know it partially).
I agree with MJ
For those who know complete formal Armenian there practically is no eat or west. I said formal. The problem is the slang. If we mean eastern with 50% Russian and western with 50% Arabic and Turkish then there is a problem. Ironically Hayastantsis use more Turkish words and phrases than say a beirutsi the resson may be twofold, beirutsis may recognize Turkish words and consciously and deliberately avoid them.
As to Aspet's mastery; Erkrord lezvin tiratsman makardak@ sahmanvadz e arajin lezvin tiruyti chapanishov. To illustrate, the foregoing sentence was translated from; The level of mastery of a second language is limited by the the mastery of the first.
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ØÝçáÛ³ÝÁ ¼ÈØ-Ý»ñÇÝ Ññ³íÇñáõÙ ¿ ٳѳå³ïÅÇ Ëáõó
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P.S. I don't know why it doesn't come through. Could you guys [moderators] fix it, please?
Here it is MJ
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Arad, do you know that you are less and less sense as we go along.
Your original quetion was if Jewus was historical.
I gave my answer which if you read it correctly does indicate that yes, Jesus was historical, is the "bum" I alluded to. I don't think I said anything bad about him. All rebels, revolutionaries and visionaries are considered bums in their own time. I am sure you know what he said about the prophet that is rejected, ridiculed in his own village. That is what he exactly meant, that he was not taken seriously. As to the other Jesus, the mythicized and deified one I will not repeat. Nothing that I said dimishes one iota from his real message, whther he was a bum or god the message is still the same. To me it makes no difference who has said what, it is the message, not the messenger.
I did not understand one word from your last post about the number of copies. Are you saying that the number of copies of a book make it credible? Are you saying that Harrry Potter books that may have sold in millions and billlions make it a reality? If so then we must start a religion based on Harry Potter.
I still don't understand what you are trying to prove. All I can say is that you are goiung through a crisis of to believe or not and you are looking for approval. You;ll get over it once you realize that whether Jesus was historical bum or mythical saint the message is still the same, AND IT IS GOOD!
As to the empty tomb.
Is that a trick question?
Here is my answer; It is not copied and pasted, it is me in the first person who is telling this story.
Are you talking about the "Hoax of Two Millennia"?
Here is the hoax of the century. This may be totally unrelated.
I just discovered that President Ulyssis S Grant had had a summer cottage in the Adirodacks in my backyard and that he died there.
I just visited it. Among other things I thought I would be cute and asked: "So, who is buried in Grant's tomb"?
The guide lady knew exactly what I meant.
I had heard the phrase so many times and I thought there was some histocity to it.
It turns out that some time ago there was a silly TV show called It Pays to be Ignorant, and one of the questions was "Who is buried in Grant's tomb"?
Some people took it seriously and tried to find "intelligent answers".
The answer was obviously supposed to be; Grant! Who else?
Who is buried in Jesus' tomb? Probably nobody. Where is Jesus' tomb anyway?
Who is buried in Lenin's tomb? Nobody, yet! His rotten lesh/carcass is still on display at the Red Square. When will his rotten remains find it's proper destination, the trash can?
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GET A LIFE!!
When people erun out of argument they resort to name calling.
Marco Polo is supposed to have traveled all the way to Shanghai.
Do the Italians waste even a Lira to preserve the Ristorante Di Pasta Fasul (I just made it up) that he established there?
What do the Italians do with their Liras?
Look at the jewels that are Rome, Florence and other cities, and then look at Yerevan, falling apart at seams just as we speak.
So, some Armenian rug merchant traveled to Bangladesh, so what?
How is that benefitting Yerevan?
As to "hirya", that is exactly what a "hirya" would like you to do, dilute your attention to such rotten places as the Vank in Jerusalem so that Yerevan would be remanded to the dustbin of history. Keep it up!
Go ahead, waste you lumas at Dhaka, the armpit of the world.
Rmember to not call me. I donate (not)enough to help Yerevan survive. What do you do?
Is not the preservation of historical minumnets the duty of respective governments? What has the government of Bngladesh done in that repect?
Why is this Martin guy in London and not in Yerevan? Is London the Capital of Armenia?
Who assigned you the preserver of the world? How much more can we dilute our resources? Don't we have our hands full with the Yerevan Province?
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It all depends what your intent is.
Are you trying to reaffirm your faith or are you sincerely searching for scholarly opinions?
As always there are two Jesuses. The historical one and the mythical.
Historically speaking Jesus was a homeless bum obssessed with world peace, justice and righting the xenophobic elitist wrong that had been perpetuated for centuries. He was probably ridiculed and persecuted even as we ridicule and persecute modern day Jesuses who may have a message contrary to our perception of things.
Here is the "homeless bum" in his own words;
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx...&size=First+100
As to the mythical and mythologized Jesus, we know that it did not happen until many decades after his violent death. It was all an otherwise vain attempt to lend legitimacy to the contention that He was the long awaited Messiah. That is why all that mythology about His immaculate conception, born of a virgin and that he was of the House of David.
Jesus may have been more than a bum judging from incidents as below where he purportedely converted water to wine. The whole incident was a hoax when he poured wine from his hidden goatskin up his sleeve. Did I say he was wino?
Wine;
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx...V2&byte=4766347
As to his historicity here is one of many sites. For your reading pleasure;
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
Does all this mean that Jesus was a bad person? NO! He was just another idiot that thought he could change the world overnight. And he paid dearly for it, even with his life. Then again, in his own words: "Man cannot kick against a needle" or something like that. Here it is, here is what he said about going aginst the flow;
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx...&size=First+100
Doe this mean we must lose all faith in His teachings?
Of course not. That is, not until a better one is born, be He historical or mythical
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Would the moderators be so kind to fix the spelling of the subject topic?
I meant it to spell "Akhorzhak" with an h after the z
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Let's open this thread with the all Armenian delicacy of all times...
KHASH
http://www.cilicia.com/armo_cb_mees.html#K...#KHASH_OR_*****
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Can we help this man DO WHAT?
Help him preserve another pile of stinking rock?
Help him divide the nation yet another way?
Which diocese does that church profess to be?
Of all the places, Dhaka? Bangladesh?
Of all the places, one of the most godforsaken hostile and rotten lands on this earth? Can we sink lower?
Has he not heard of Bangladesh sector in Yerevan?
What is he trying to do? What esthetic and historical value does that church have? OK, there were some Armenians in Bangladesh sometime ago. So what? There are Armenians in Zimbabwe too.
Is it not time to rid ourselves from that centrifugal mode and concentrate on the centripetal?
Is he trying to maintain tha "Little Armenia" in Bangladesh? How many little Armenias can we have? How about a "big Armenia" for a change?
Granted, there are "little China-s and Little Italy-s all over the world, but compare the sizes of those to "big China-s" and "big Italys-s". It is one thing to have a "little Armenia" in Glendale, but when Armenian Glendale becomes bigger than Yerevan???
STOP!!
Is that why we lost armenia (lower case A) in the first place.
In closing. The hell with all the churches! Let's find another way to promote the nation!
Close that church and move to Bangladesh, Yeravan!
Movses for Armenian children
in Culture
Posted
How did you know I was already researching?
'Isa is not Ismael simply beacuse Isa in fact in the Arabic begins with the guttaural 'u, for which reason I had spelled it as "eesa".
Yes Moslems do invoke all three prophets as "Eesa Musa Mohammed" and they do acknowledge all three as prophets, mind you, not gods. That may be the main reasonwhy those embraced Islam did so because thwy had a problem with Jesus deity. I do too. Only if we were only rid Christianity of all that excess mythology and that stupod theology it would be so much easier to gain converts.
See below;
http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...t=0entry58028
"'eesa massih" is from the Arabic, at least it is Semitic, it is translitarated from the Hebrw/Aramaic Yeshua, and the "massih" , even though at this point may be interpreted to mean savior, cleanser (as in the Arabic "imsah" means to wipe to clean) it is nevertheless the transliterated form of Messiah. In the Srmenian Messiah is loosely interpreted are "prkich".