moogey

I read the article with interest and dismay. A comment caught my attention with the suggestion that children could weave or embroider a copy of the rug and send it to the White House. (on second thoughts, send it to the Smithsonian). This might embarrass them (hmmm....) It would be something, and might be seized on by the media. Maybe one of you (or more) might post a comment. I find it futile to go on bickering. Better to do something concrete, like writing or creating a work of art, creating waves. What do you think?

Stop misrepresentation of Armenian Heritage as "Ancient Turkey" http://www.change.org/en-CA/petition...ancient-turkey This is causing a stir among experts and the petition needs the weight of your name. Here are two examples Rouben Galichian He has written to the museum giving specific arguments against the descriptions used, and even suggesting helpful changes for accuracy. His conclusions are clear: � Hence the name �Eastern Anatolia� (Eastern East) and �Ancient Anatolia� are misnomers.�, and �As Turkey as a country, or its people - for that matter, did not exist prior to the fifteenth century, when writing or speaking about ancient times, the terminology �Ancient Turkey� is incorrect and meaningless�, and �Other ancient classical period maps, reconstituted by German and British cartographers of the nineteenth century, based on the writings of Greek and Roman geographers and depicting the ancient world, there seems to be no �Ancient Turkey� or �Ancient Anatolia� appearing anywhere.� Christopher Walker No reputable historian or ethnographer, while researching Turkish or non-Turkish people, artefacts, languages or ethnicities, has ever used the phrase 'Ancient Turkey'. The recognised term has been Anatolia, or sometimes Asia Minor. You will not find any use of 'Ancient Turkey' in the whole of the Encyclopaedia of Islam, nor in the works of Bernard Lewis, a historian of considerable Turkophile sympathies. (see his Emergence of Modern Turkey, pages 3, 331-2, and 433-5.) Professor Colin Renfrew, in his Archaeology and Language, uses the term nowhere. One Turkophile writer and popular historian, Lord Kinross, the biographer of Ataturk, has a whole chapter of his Turkish travelogue Within the Taurus (1954) entitled 'Armenia'. It concerns Kars and Ardahan. In writing about antiquities, Kinross never used the phrase 'Ancient Turkey'. So 'Ancient Turkey' is a new coinage, designed by someone within the British Museum. It is a coinage that - since all historical terminology in this arena has a political connotation (see the Bernard Lewis work noted above, page 3) - will delight 'extremist and ultranationalist Turkish individuals and organisations'. Their theoretical position is that the Turks are autochthonous, have always been in Anatolia. This view conflicts with that of reputable historians (and many Turks themselves, who frequently used, and may still use, European AD or CE dating minus 1000 years), that the Oghuz Turks first moved into Anatolia in about AD 1000 [CE]. The fact that the Urartu language was, like the Turkish language, agglutinative proves nothing about ancestral presence. The real Ancient Turkey lies somewhere on the borders of Kazakhstan and China. Only fragmentary evidence exists today of this original homeland. Anatolia, colonized initially by Oghuz Turks about one thousand years ago, is not 'Ancient Turkey'. Please sign the petition! http://www.change.org/en-CA/petition...ancient-turkey

This is a shot in the dark. Someone, somewhere, may know about an Armenian play called The New Doctor, performed by the Women's Charitable Society of the Euphrates Evangelical Church in December 1939. This was n Providence, in the USA

Arpa - This is a PS to my first reply. I've googled shalvar, and it's most confusing! The consensus seems to be that it's worn by the women, and by Kurdish men. It's also called harem pants. Some say it's of Scythian or Hurrian origin, but some say the Scythians did not wear them. Did Turkish men wear them in early 20th century?

Thanks, Arpa. The Persian Shal has given us the word shawl, and there is a connection with shalak/g in Armenian for shoulder as you say. Shalvar - does not necessarily have the same derivation (even though it's funny to think of those baggy trousers as starting off as blankets or shawls!) Interesting to find out what the real derivation is. So Shaldjian/Chaldjian's ancestors were perhaps makers of shawls and blankets.

Thanks Yervant 1. From what Arpa says about the derivation from the Persian, and what you say, this is probably the meaning. A shawl. The ancestors of Chaldjian may have started making shawls or blankets. Interesting.

I'm sure someone in the forum knows the meaning of the name Shaldjian in Chaldjian. I was asked because Chaldjian was known as a special tailor in Cairo.

4 days left to listen to this interesting broadcast. One of the heroes of the First World War was an American surgeon who was posted with the British army. His name was Varaztad Kazanjian and as an Armenian refugee he had escaped the massacre of his people in Turkey in 1895. He settled in Worcester, Massachusetts and - along with many other Armenians - took a job in the local wire factory. There he worked long, hot hours but was determined to make a better life, and dedicated himself to years of evening classes. Eventually he decided to try for a career as a dentist, and in 1902 was accepted by Harvard Dental School, qualifying in 1905. He was happily married and successfully running his own dental practice when the First World War broke out, but he volunteered to join the Harvard Medical Corps, posted to a huge tented hospital complex in northern France. There he began to treat some of the worst injuries suffered in trench war-fare - jaws, noses, cheeks and skulls shattered by bullets and grenades. Although he wasn't a qualified surgeon, he had become known for treating the kind of facial injuries and disfigurements neglected by the general medical community, and he brought this passion and expertise to bear in France. Many soldiers, who would otherwise have suffered dreadful scarring and lifelong pain, had their injuries expertly treated by Kazanjian. It was said that he advanced the field of plastic surgery by 50 years during the four years he served the British army. He received an honorary knighthood from King George the Vth, and became one of the most respected reconstructive facial surgeons in the world. (At one stage treating Sigmund Freud, whose jaw had been eaten away by cancer). Telling the story of Varaztad Kazanjian is Professor Iain Hutchison. He is founder and Chief Executive of The Facial Surgery Research Foundation and is one of the world's leading reconstructive facial surgeons. His mother was a Jewish doctor who escaped the Nazis in Austria; his first career was in dentistry, before specialising in oral and maxillo-facial surgery; and - like Kazanjian - he has operated on some of the most difficult cases of facial injury and disfigurement, all the while advancing and developing this particular area of surgery. Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ht5cv

Haiku, Maiku....It's all speculation. I grant you, the name is more likely to be of Persian origin. What is needed is a date - how far does the name Barsoumian go back? Was St. Barsoum named because of the Persian word, or is it just one of those things? It's the speculation that is interesting, and the interconnectedness of languages, not the scoring of brownie points for the Armenian language. There is often a trace of borrowings, exchanges etc that reminds us that we are not isolated beings, cultures or nations.

The name Barsoum is that of a Coptic saint. St. Barsoum El Erian(the naked) was born in Cairo in 1257AD and lived an ascetic life in the desert. He is credited with many miracles and has a monastery named after him in Helwan. He is recognized by other Orthodox churches including the Armenian Church hence the name Barsoumian. I'm sure you can mention the origins of hundreds of names. It's a fascinating topic.

No need to get so excited about it. Though I agree. The writer(s) did not have to listen to all the stories the Crusaders told them about Mohammedans and Pagans in those Far-off Lands. They did not have to believe every word the Crusaders said. Why could they not get on a plane and see for themselves? Or, failing that, go on the Internet for Heaven's sake. There they could have found out all they wanted, joined forums, emailed other travellers for different points of view. No, they were set in their own little world.

Click on the link, then click on the book, and you can read a page of his book. http://www.amazon.com/Metamorphoses-Medicine-William-G-Anlyan-M/dp/0822333783/ref=cm_sw_em_r_jdp_image_featured?ie=UTF8&tag=tellafriend-20

SOUTHAMPTON SCREENS FILM ABOUT MEDIEVAL FOUNDER BEVOIS Ms Jenssen used historical documents recounting storytellers' accounts of Sir Bevois' adventures. They include being sold to slave merchants by his mother, ending up in the court of the king of Armenia (Ermin) and falling in love with a princess. He reputedly returned to England to reclaim his father's land, and founded the city of Southampton. The story has been compiled in the following link. Has anyone come across it? I hadn't. There is an anomaly in the story, but never mind, it's interesting and could lead to further discoveries about the legend/history. http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/teams/bevisint.htm Moogey is online now Add to Moogey's Reputation Report Post Edit/Delete Message

You can call this history, as it concerns the Americans and the Near East Relief. Armenian Weekly Armenian Orphan Rug Lives up to Its Name Posted By Tom Vartabedian On July 21, 2010 WASHINGTON—Somewhere inside the White House, stashed away inside an obscure storage room, lays an historic rug. A close-up of the Armenian Orphan Rug with its intricate detail bearing colorful images of animals akin to the Garden of Eden. The rug was woven in 1924-25 and presented to President Calvin Coolidge. It now lies in storage inside the White House. Not just any rug, but one created by 400 Armenian orphans from 1924-25 in a town called Ghazir, about 40 miles north of Beirut. This colorful piece of tapestry, which measures 18 feet by 12 feet, lives up to its name: It has remained an “orphan” rug since it passed through the hands of President Calvin Coolidge in 1926. The intricacy is woven with a passion unlike others of its kind, containing some 4 million knots made to characterize the biblical Garden of Eden with its collection of animals and other symbolic features. The big loom was set up for an “Isfahan.” The 400 orphaned girls worked in shifts and spent 18 months on its completion. It was then sent to Washington and presented at a special ceremony to the White House in recognition of the help rendered by the American people to Armenian orphans. Armenian historians and archivists are looking for a more permanent home, one that will avail itself to tourists and public acclaim. They’d like nothing better than to see this rug on permanent display in the White House, with credit given to Armenian Genocide survivors or, at the very least, have it showcased inside the Genocide Museum, or perhaps the Smithsonian. They seem to think there are political ramifications preventing this rug from enjoying the life of nobility, for which it was intended. “If you bring out the story of this rug, you’re talking genocide, and this country doesn’t recognize the Armenian Genocide,” laments Dr. H. Martin Deranian, a prominent Worcester historian and dentist who has documented every facet of this jewel. “It’ll open up the story of the orphans. I’ve taken responsibility to see this story brought to the surface and its meaning appreciated.” The Armenian Orphan Rug is viewed inside the White House in September 1984 by activists looking to preserve its identity. (L-R) U. S. Senator Carl Levin (D-Mich.), Dr. H. Martin Deranian, Worcester historian, and Set Momjian, a former ambassador to the United Nations. Deranian has turned himself into a self-imposed rug ambassador in seeking the cause of justice. By unraveling this mystery, he’s hoping to bring greater credence to the Near East Relief and the scores of orphans saved during the genocide years of 1915-23. He continues to pay homage to Dr. Jacob Kuenzler, or “Papa” Kuenzler as he was affectionately called, for evacuating thousands of Armenian orphans from Turkey to the relative security of Syria while working for the Near East Relief. Kuenzler had the idea of starting a rug factory in Ghazir. He thought the girls would learn to weave rugs and go on earning a living this way. It seemed to him that even on so small an outlay, much good could be achieved for these orphans. With only two looms, he started this rug factory in Ghazir, high up in the mountains. President Coolidge was more than grateful for the rug. In a letter he wrote to Dr. John Finley, vice-president of the Near East Relief, Coolidge was overwhelmed by the gift. “This beautiful rug woven by children in Lebanon has been received. This, their expression of gratitude for what we’ve been able to do for this country for their aid, is accepted by me as a token of their goodwill to the people of the United States who have assisted in the work of the Near East Relief. Please extend to these orphans my thanks and the thanks of the vast number of our citizens whose generosity this labor of love is intended to acknowledge. The rug has a place of honor in the White House where it will be a daily symbol of goodwill on earth.” A “Golden Rule” Sunday had been instituted in the United States. Each year, on the first Sunday in December, people were asked to eat only a one-course meal and contribute the money they had saved to the Near East Relief. Some $2 million was collected annually. An overall view of the Armenian Orphan Rug, which measures 18'x12'. Armenian activists are trying to have it removed from storage inside the White House and have it showcased. The presentation of the Ghazir rug to the White House in 1925 was given such widespread publicity that contributions from Golden Rule Sunday doubled. The factory received numerous orders for special carpets and many of the girls ultimately found homes and became brides. The event was covered in the New York Times, which carried the headline, “President receives rug woven by orphans of Near East and praises work on relief.” Coolidge displayed the rug in the Blue Room under his administration. It remained there until 1928 when he took it to his residence in Northampton, Mass. The orphan rug graced his living room at a place called the Beeches until his death in 1933. From there, Mrs. Coolidge kept the rug inside her home in Northampton until she died in 1957, eventually landing with a son John until he sold his Connecticut home in 1974. The rug wound up in storage at the Coolidge Homestead in Plymouth, Vt., when it was returned to the White House and added to the collection in 1983. It was placed in storage and not on public view, and has remained there for the past 27 years. Deranian was invited to the White House to view the rug with U.S. Senator Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and Asbed Set Momjian, a former ambassador to the United Nations. “The curator of the White House collection has indicated that it is highly unlikely the rug would be on exhibit in an official capacity,” said Deranian. “It was an emotional feeling to touch this very rug. These girls with their nimble fingers wove their gratitude to America into every stitch. My interest dates back to my mother. During the deportation, she went through every indignity before ending up in Urfa.” Call it fate but in 1995, Charlotte Movsesian of North Andover, Mass. observed a color photo in the Lawrence Eagle-Tribune of Hillary Clinton showing off the Blue Room during her husband’s administration. And there was the rug, bright and bold as ever. She recognized that rug because her own mother Vartouhi (Hovsepian) Gulezian was one of those orphaned girls who helped weave it. Mrs. Gulezian was 14 years old and brought to America from Ghazir in 1926 to work at a loom as a demonstration during the sesquicentennial (150th anniversary) celebration of the founding of the United States. She was joined by another orphan, 15-year-old Gulunia Kehyaian. Movsesian wrote to Clinton and inquired about the rug, never expecting a response. A month later, she received a letter from the White House curator, inviting the entire family to Washington. Together with her husband Albert S., brother Martin, and mother, off they went by train to meet the appointment. They were welcomed not by Hillary Clinton but the White House curator and her assistant. And there was the rug Mrs. Gulezian had made with the others orphans. She recognized it. “A rush of emotion came over me, not so much for the beauty but what it represented,” said Albert Movsesian, who promotes genocide education in local schools with stories of the rug. “The fact the Near East Relief was responsible for helping so many orphans, including my mother-in-law, deserves our utmost appreciation,” he added. “I got down on my hands and knees and touched every part of the rug. I saw the Golden Rule Gratitude inscription in one of the corners.” The Movsesians wound up spending 90 minutes at the White House that day, had photos taken by the rug, and off they went, laden with memories of a lifetime. No sign of any president, however. “Very few people know the significance of this rug,” Movsesian brought out. “The story about it has been a well-kept secret in the Armenian community because these orphans didn’t talk about it. After we saw the rug, back into storage it went. It’s been there ever since, simply forsaken. We’re hoping to resurrect it into a place of honor where it belongs.” If and when that might occur, the rug will represent a memorial to those orphans whose sad fingers wove into its warp and weft a permanent remembrance of the depths of Armenia’s blackest hour. If it could only talk, it would speak volumes

I wasn't sure which section this belonged to, and some of you may have seen this mentioned before. The film The Genocide in Me is very interesting and thought-provoking, so be sure to go and see it if it comes your way. There are some videos on the website. This delightful album is the work of Vrej-Armen's daughter, Araz Artinian, You can find her on Facebook, she is a remarkable young woman who has done some fantastic work in Armenia and continues to do so tirelessly - she deserves the recognition and our support. http://www.20voices.com/ http://www.informactionfilms.com/en/...press_kit.html

Thanks. I enjoyed listening. I also like the pictures.

ARARAT By Frank Westerman I've nearly reached the point where Frank Westerman is about to climb Ararat, after having gone through all the hoops, difficulties and "formalities" that are necessary in this area. The book is a mixture of history, travelogue, people and philosophy, which is what I like. A slim, readable volume, it is also partly a memoir of his childhood. What I did not realize is that the philosophizing centres on the inconsistencies in religious belief that science has uncovered, and his feeling that science does not explain it all. By studying the myth of Noah and the deluge, the myth of the deluge in other religions and cultures, he hopes to solve some of his personal thinking on the subject, and by climbing Ararat which is central to the myth, he hopes that he will find enlightenment,for want of a better word, though that word is not exactly faithful to the tone of the book. He travels back to memories of his family who were very religious (Dutch Reformed Church), his school, his teachers, his love of Maths. He has a lovely explanation of maths, which I grasp in a sort of poetic way. The deluge is also personal, because as a boy he nearly drowned in a man-made flood in Holland. His parents did not even know it had happened;his life was miraculously saved. He’s Dutch, the book was originally written in his native language, translated by Sam Garrett. It's also been translated into Armenian. A dramatic instance of nature asserting its ascendancy over science occurs in the book. Something which is topical too, even though it happened in 1965 in Holland. He has also been to Armenia, and seen the other face of Ararat.

Please take action today & forward this email to family and friends The Action Alert on the Woodrow Wilson Center issue (please visit it - takes one minute): Please click here -->> http://www.capwiz.com/anca/issues/alert/?alertid=15045776 Background articles in the Armenian American and Hellenic media and elsewhere: http://www.reporter.am/go/article/2010-05-20-activists-protest-planned-wilson-center-award-to-turkish-fm http://asbarez.com/81006/activists-ask-congress-to-investigate-planned-woodrow-wilson-center-award-to-turkeys-foreign-minister/comment-page-1/#comment-18967 http://www.armenianweekly.com/2010/05/20/activists-ask-congress-to-investigate-planned-wilson-center-award-to-davutoglu/ http://ahiworld.org/press_releases/2010_037.html (American Hellenic Institute) http://ahiworld.org/press_releases/pdfs/PR37/2010_05_21_12_06_20.pdf (American Hellenic Institute) http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/05/09/the-woodrow-wilson-center-desecrates-its-namesake’s-legacy-and-violates-its-congressional-mandate http://www.keghart.com/Boyajian_WWC

He's a very brave man - and he is not the only one. He's certainly braver than some of our UK members of Parliament. Every attempt helps,and makes others question the official line on historical events. Also, don't underestimate how damaging it is when reactionary elements in Turkey protest, jump up and down or worse.

TURKISH LAWYER ASKS ANKARA COURT TO RECOGNIZE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE Azg Daily April 2 2010 Armenia A top-notch lawyer in Turkey has urged the court in Ankara and the government of Turkey to recognize the Armenian Genocide and remove all the statues of the former interior minister Talat ***** from the country as one of the organizers of the Armenian Genocide, huliq.com reports. According to the source, this may be one of the very rare cases when the Armenian genocide discussion moves from parliaments to legal field in courts. In a very rare case, the Armenian genocide discussion moves from parliament to a legal field in court. Most importantly, the case originated in Turkey's capital, Ankara. According one of the top Turkish newspapers Haberturk, a famous Turkish lawyer Bendal Jalil Ezman petitioned the Turkish government and the court to recognize the Armenian Genocide which happened in 1915-1921 and remove all the statues of Talat ***** from the country as well as rename all the street names that are named after him. According to the Ezman, after examining the events of those years he came to the conclusion that Talaat ***** actually committed a crime and is the author of the Armenian Genocide. Thus, with this connection, Ezman asks the court in Turkey to qualify those horrific events of killing 1.5 million Armenians as genocide. He said Armenian citizens of the Ottoman Empire were systematically slaughtered and Turkey should face its past. "Turkey must face its past. Such a case is opened for the first time in Turkey," said attorney Ezman. Asked if he fears any negative reaction he said "if it comes, predestination is something in my head." More members of the Turkish society have come forward in the recent years acknowledging the Armenian Genocide. As the society aspires for European Union membership and the government proceeds more democratic reforms and opening discussions about the past are being made possible and more people learn about the past dark pages of the Ottoman period when 1.5 million Armenians were slaughtered and deported from their living place and thus deprived from their fatherland in Eastern Anatolia as part of a systematic ethnic cleansing program carried be the government of Young Turks. More than 20 parliaments in the world have called those events genocide. It's unknown when the court will consider Ezman's lawsuit, the source reports. TURKISH HISTORIAN AFFIRMS ARMENIAN GENOCIDE armradio.am 01.04.2010 16:41 Prominent Turkish historian told Taraf newspaper in an interview that "the Young Turks planned to annihilate the entire Armenian population." Historian Selim Deringil told Taraf that there was also a distinction between the aims of the Young Turks and their predecessor Sultan Abdul Hamid at the turn of the 19th century, Asbarez reports. "The difference between Sultan Abdul Hamid and the Young Turks was that the Young Turks wanted to completely destroy and annihilate the Armenians, while Sultan Abdul Hamid sought to get rid of a certain element of Armenians, to diminish their economic dominance and to create and Islamic bourgeoisie." "There were Armenians [living] everywhere [in Turkey]. The massacre of Armenians took place in different cities. Today, the official history states that in all the areas where people were killed there were Armenians revolts; however, the majority of those were not rebellions," said Deringil. The historian told Taraf that between 1841 and 1897, 300,000 Armenian were massacred under Sultan Adbul Hamid. He claims that 800,000 were murdered during the Armenian Genocide. Deringil also cites the failures of Turkish policy after the establishment of the modern-day Republic. He told Taraf that at the onset of the Republic an estimated 300,000 Armenians lived in Turkey, while today that number has dwindled to 70,000. "Annihilation does not only happen through killings," claimed Derengil. "If you make life unbearable [for people] they will pick up and leave." Derengil also criticized Turkish historians, who, he said, spend all of their time trying to rationalize Turkey's official denialist position on the Genocide. "They work only to prove that Armenian assertions are baseless." After World War I, Derengil said, there was plenty of evidence that demonstrated the crimes, kidnapping and rape of Armenian women in Anatolia beginning in 1915. He cited that at that time the number of adoptions was 300,000" "This is worth discussion." TURKISH CITIZENS ADVISE ANKARA TO FOLLOW SERBIA'S EXAMPLE AND APOLOGIZE TO ARMENIANS Tert.am 16:46 ~U 01.04.10 Some people in Turkey believe that Ankara should follow Serbia's example (as it retains to the Srebrenica massacre) and apologize to Armenians for the Armenian Genocide so that Turkey can become a full member of the European Union. Earlier this week, Serbia's parliament passed a landmark resolution offering an apology for the 1995 Srebrenica massacre - the worst incident of the Bosnian War - but stopped short of calling it genocide. In an interview with Turkish paper Haberturk, columnist Soli Ozel, who specializes in international relations, said that since Serbia was on the path toward EU membership, it was necessary to implement measures addressing those accusations of genocide directed at the country. "That is, that decision is directly related to EU membership. Serbian authorities, though it was a difficult decision, made it, while facing harsh criticism and counter-reaction from nationalists ... But as for what concerns Turkey, on the issue of the Armenian Genocide, it has not yet reached that point. But it will be easier for Turkey from now on to take such initiatives. Turkey's Foreign Ministry needs to work on that issue," said Ozel. Maya Arakon, a professor of Turkey's Yeditepe University, in turn, told Haberturk that with that apology Serbia is trying to whitewash its history in accordance with EU standards, as its aim is to be a member of the EU. "We too, having before us the Armenian Genocide issue, can take such an initiative... For the EU, such an apology means progress in democracy... As we know, we are surrounded by the Armenian Genocide issue on all four sides. Following Serbia's example, Turkey can also apologize, without qualifying the 1915 events as genocide," said Arakon, adding that it would strengthen Turkey's positions in the domain of foreign policy.

Thank you for letting us know. It's not usually reported in the press or on TV. Caroline Cox is a very good speaker, and has visited Armenia and Azerbaijan many times. Unfortunately, however effective, it all falls on deaf ears.

Worth watching - note eye contact, and lack of it....

It must have been a monumental task for you. Have you seen the book Armenian Folk Tales and Fables by Charles Downing (1972)? Sona Svetlian, who now lives in the US, wrote down folk tales from Musa Ler.

Mille mercis, Louise, your website is excellent. I'm also interested in folktales. I can read French, so, yes, if possible can you point me in the direction of the other articles Nos 77, 75, 68. And in another answer to my prayer, there will be an exhibition in London of postcards collected by Orlando Calumeno and published by Osman Köker, and also artefacts, maps. videos, etc of Armenians in Turkey 100 years ago. You've probably seen them in Paris.

Can anyone recommend books and websites on life and society in Turkish Armenia around 1900s, (pre-genocide)? I have found a good website where you can read books online: http://www.archive.org/details/womenofturkeythe00garnuoft