raja

Not in an organised way,but on an individual basis smuggling of antiques from Armenia to Turkey exists and it is done by the Armenians themselves.For more then ten years I had my own shop selling antiques in Istanbul.My shop was located in an antiques mall consisting of seventyfive shops.From time to time we would have people come in the mall and try to sell some pieces that they have with them.Some of them were Armenians and they came on a regular basis.And since I was the only shopowner of Armenian origin first they would come to me.The pieces wouldn't be of any museum quality,but gathered from the fleamarkets in Armenia and brought to Turkey to be sold for a profit for the market in Turkey is higher.I bought many pieces from them.I don't know how they took them out of Armenia,but bribing the customs officers would be the first that comes to mind.Not only from Armenia,but we had people coming from Russia,Ukraine,Azerbaijan too. Antiques smuggling is nothing new.Happens all over the world and Armenia is not an exception.

The number of christian Armenians living in Turkey right now is approximately 75000.In the early 80's the number had dropped to as low as 40000 because of a mass immigration then due to the military regime as well as fear of harm because of ASALA's actions.However,in the last 5-6 years prior to the eartquake the immigration flow reversed and some of the people who left Turkey returned back.The number rose as high as 80000.But then,after the eartquake again a flow of immigration started and the final number for now is around 75000.

Thanks. By the way you're an early bird.Isn't it only 7am there?

Here's a site with Armenian jokes. http://vartanik.com/

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: dear boghos, i know that there are quite a few turkish industrialists that are armenian. i doubt if they keep a low profile. for instance, the süren family (of galatasaray fame) is publicly known to be of armenian origin, this doesn't seem to have caused him much trouble. also, turkish pop singer nükhet duru's ex, dikran masis is armenian, he makes office furniture. the list is long, including toto karaca (theatre actress, mother of cem karaca, the famous pop singer). i dont know about ayhan ışık, but i have heard that fikret hakan was armenian. anyone knows anything on that? cheers, I haven't ever heard of either Ayhan Isik or Fikret Hakan being Armenian.In the film industry famous Armenians are Kenan Pars(Kirkor Cezveciyan),Nubar Terziyan,Aram Gulyuz(director),Arto Berberyan(decor). In music:Mine Kosan,Asu Maralman,Hayko,Onno Tunc,Garo Mafyan,Rober Hatemo,Arto. In theater:Ani Ipekkaya Also photographer Ara Guler(considered #1 in Turkey),journalist Etyen Mahcupyan are famous Armenians in Turkey.

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: dear everybody, i think the famous entertainer was a guy called arshak palabıyıkyan but that's all i know about him. with that name his chances of being anything other than armenian appear to be slim. can anyone check it out? plus, there have been (and still are) quite a few famous armenians in ottoman/turkish history. a few examples: 1. tatyos efendi: famous musician, ottoman period. 2. the entire balyan family: family of architects, built the dolmabahçe palaca amongst quite a few other monuments. 3. pars tuğlacı: famous turkish linguist, author of a number of dictionaries and encyclopaedias. also is there anyone out there who knows where the late herbert von karajan got his surname from? regards, ali suat Arsak Palabiyikyan was the nickname given to Marx by the Turkish press of the time.As you know the movies of that time which came to vision in Turkey were all dubbed.Groucho Marx's dubbing was performed by then famous dubber Ferdi Tayfur(not the arabesk singer )In his dubbing Ferdi Tayfur gave him an Armenian accent and the press named the character Arsak Palabiyikyan.

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: raffi, why do so many people with such skills end up selling shirts, stocks, gas, and what not? i see similar things happen not only in turkey but all over the better off world. is there something wrong with us, language geeks? had to get this off my chest. thanx for listening. regards, We humans by nature are in a constant pursuit of happiness.Whereas some of us are more ambitious many of us seek happiness in the simplest form of life.Not only in our choice of profession but also the way we choose to lead our life in every aspect.We might be accused of not using our knowledge and skills in a more efficient way but the question remains for whose benefit and at what cost? This may sound a bit too selfish but I don't see anything wrong with that.My knowledge and skills belong to me and I decide how to use them.After all,were the ambitions of my teenage which caused me acquire those skills mine or were they imposed on me by my family and such?I still don't know the answer.Maybe I have changed a lot since that period,but I am satisfied with who I am right now. Remember similar issues are raised for women who after years of studying prefer to be a housewife only.

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: Sure does! I don't want to sound like I am performing a "knee-jerk," but I think YÖK is needed, given the way we would rather keep out people who go to don't-know-what "university" in Egypt... Or would we rather not? It is a proven fact that as a people we have no auto-control/auto-check and hence we need the "shepherds"... But this incident you've gone through is plain ridiculous. Incidents such as these work against us, whether it is individuals or the country as a whole. You see, it is because of fear of such, among a huge list of others, that I chose not to attend a university abroad. My father told me that I might have to risk settling abroad permanently, as he is aware of such himself... Yep. I also had an art teacher here in high school whose husband had a friend who was the son of a former diplomat. The guy knows 11 languages (two more than the present pope) and has studied philology here so he wouldn't risk anything, but guess what he does for a living: he sells shirts. Anyway, that was off topic. We have some parallels here. Because of my fears of leaving my country I also turned down numerous acceptances from abroad(mainly US,since my highschool was Robert)and decided on BU.Look where I have ended up anyway! BTW I speak only 5 languages and I'm managing a gasstation. (I used to sell antiques when I was in Turkey)

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: Nice. You know, there are certain things some (but only some) Diasporan Armenians say about Armenians who consider Turkey their home - they are traitors, how can they live and like living among Turks, blah blah blah. I can guess what you are going to say, but I would like to hear from you, as well. LOL... Like any other subject this one also has its fanatics.Not yet have I encountered such animosity and I believe such people belong to a minority group.However,they exist,and the fact remains that it is impossible to reason with them.Dealing with them would bring about two alternatives.You either will ignore or start up heated exchanges since a normal discussion is not possible. I would prefer the prior but not refrain from the latter either. A more moderate approach would be to claim that I have been assimilated.I wouldn't try to refute that since I believe that to be true and moreover I see nothing wrong with that.It's only natural.In contributing to who I am right now my Turkish identity has been equally effective as my Armenian identity, if not more. Under the thread Turkish Friend I had made a couple posts regarding that topic and you can find some parallels in them with this subject. Long story short,I am quite happy for who I am regardless of what people may say or think. (Be careful to keep on holding the microphone,in case you hand it over you might not recieve it back.)

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: Really? That's cool. One of the Armenians I contacted at Agos told me he was originally from Kayseri. And thanks. Do you speak Turkish? Just how are you a Bolsahye? Born there yourself or you deem such from parents? [ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: Thorny Rose ] LOL.I spent 35 years of my 37 year long life in Turkey.Close to 2 years ago(to be exact 2 days after the earthquake)I came here.So it would be a fair assumption to say that I speak Turkish. I didn't come here with full free will,but for financial reasons.I'm still hoping that someday I will return although it might be quite a hard decision.Turkey is the place I was born,raised and lived;thus there would be no other place that I would consider as "home" My family comes from 4 different parts in Turkey.Kayseri,Yozgat(Bogazliyan),Ordu and Bilecik.So my roots lie in a widespread area.

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: I don't think that's what Steve had in mind... And what is this? "Benim siyasi ve ekonomik bir kaygım yok. Ben sadece Allah'ın kuluyum ve herşeyi kalpten, inanarak söylüyorum. Önce gerçekleri kabul etmemiz lazım. Çevremizdeki herşeyden bizler sorumluyuz. Soykırım diyoruz. Ondan da bizler sorumluyuz. Ve diyaloğa başlarsak eğer, gerçeklere o zaman ulaşabiliriz." Well,Steve was talking about the front page article on Friday's Sabah and that's the one.As for the text,I have no doubt those were said but knowing the journalistic approaches in Turkey I wonder how much was omitted in between for the text to appear as such. Please accept my congradulations on your efforts btw my paternal grandfather was from Kayseri

Why didn't the text of Kazza's post appear in the quote in my previous post?Sorry to bother you people but I have to admit my ignorance about computers.I clicked on the left corner icon but it was blank where the text should have been.

quote:Originally posted by Kazza: [ June 06, 2001: Message edited by: Kazza ]what is DIY?

quote:Originally posted by Harut: you just click on the quotations right above the posting. good this is working ,now next step:how do I take for example half of the above sentence?

quote:Originally posted by Harut: you just click on the quotations right above the posting.this is a trial