Arad9

Harout If Armenians as a nation would become Muslim I wouldn’t be proud of any of the Muslim Armenian history because I’m not a Muslim, I wouldn’t care if the Muslim leader translating the Quran or about the wars the Muslims had with the Christians I guess it's Ok for you to change your religion but you can't be proud of the christian history.

Jesus said matthew 10:38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. pick up your cross and follow him. It means to pick-up your cross of suffering, I am not saying, go and kill yourself, what I am saying is to keep our faith and traditions regardless of suffering.

How can you hold on to your identity as an Armenian yet depart from your Church? Did Vartan Mamigonian fight a lost cause? Where not Sahak and Mesrob, the inventors of our alphabet(not to mention a couple of others alphabets as well) Armenian Priests? Why be proud of our heroes, if you don't share in their beliefs and what they stood for? Did countless Armenian clergy, Saints, soldiers and people die, so we as Armenians could either escape or move to another country and then have the audacity to criticize there beliefs as, and let me put it in the terminology that Protestant missionaries used, “degenerate and backwards”. Some American Armenians rather assimilate, case in point, then to stand out differently in society for there Church, culture and ethnicity cause they want to “fit in” or “be cool”. Perhaps, America-Hye you can tell us how could Armenians be proud of there history yet reject the Armenian Church? How can we be proud of Vartan Mamegonian and not believe on what he fought for? How can we be proud of Sahak & Mashtots for giving us the alphabet, when the most important for the alphabet was to translate the bible. As for you exiling yourself from the Armenian community haven’t you done that already by not holding to your faith as an Armenian and what we stand for? America-Hye you have a church which is your home, which our ancestors have fought for, pick-up your cross and join your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Sip here is a quote from john chapt 8:56-59 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. Jesus is God according to The Armenian church and the Bible. here is a quote from Philipians chapter 2 6Who, being in very nature[1] God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature[2] of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! 9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. BY the way noah was before Abraham.

America hye, There is nothing wrong with being a vegatarian. The Bible doesn't teach to be a vegaterian, especialy not the way you are keeping it. John the baptist ate only locust and honey, Jesus caught fish,jesus was even the one that provided the ram for Abraham to sacrafice. it's all over the Bible. If you read romans 14:1 "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him." I have a Chinese employee who looks twenty years younger and he eats things like ducks' feet, eggs that are partialy hatched. I'm a vegan only during lent, also i don't eat meat on wed and fridays(fish is ok) i don't think it's healthy not to eat meat or drink milk. do you have infants and would you give them milk? ' 4Who

America-Hye Jesus was not a vegetarians. by the way do you eat fish? MJ Proove what you say don't just call names. colossians 1:24 or Eph5:33 in no way says If there is one person is God present? MJ you haven't proove your point and you are building theology on that false statment. I'm saying The church of Christ that you belong to is a cult.I can proove that it's a cult. Why would you leave the Armenian church for that? My advice to you get out

Genetically, speaking blue eyes and blonde hair are made of what are called recessive genes. The reason for these genes being recessive is the lack of melanin. Melanin is the element that basically lets your body adjust to the sun or sunlight(makes the body tan). People from regions that get little sun such as northern Europ don’t have a lot of melanin and therefore have light hair and light eyes. And if one brings up the point of the Eskimo’s remember these people are from Asian or Oriental ancestry. Scientifically there are the three different genetic makeup of humans., they are the Caucasoid, the Mongoloid, and the Negroid. These are the terms used in the science books. There is no derogatory meaning to there meanings just scientific. An the term Caucasoid means someone of Caucasian descent or from the Caucus Mountain region, which is historically Armenia.

mosjan yes shad hamov em

America-hye I said nothing of sacrificing people only animals. What's wrong with that? Since in the Old Testament if you didn't sacrifice an animal you could not get saved. My problem is you claim only your church is the church of Christ, even Protestants consider the Church of Christ as a cult., also historically the Church of Christ you are talking about never existed until very recently. By a church I mean priest, altar and historical teachings of the apostles. Again you are building on a lie that is not from the bible. Judas betrayed Jesus out of his own free will otherwise he can't be held responsible for his action. Jesus did condemn him. The Apostles did go to the nations and Christianized the Armenian nation. MJ the Church of Christ is a cult their faith is a new gospel that was never taught by any historical church.

America-hye. what's wrong with Animal sacrafice? MJ are you talking about the cult Church of Christ? Is this the "church" where to be a christian HAVE TO BE Baptized by the church of Christ? I'm not saying you are not free. Judas was free to betray Christ. Jesus didn't force him to keep on believing in Christ, nor did He force Judas to betray Christ. Here is where MJ gets his defenition of a Church matthew 18:15"If your brother sins against you,[2] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[3] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[4] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[5] loosed in heaven. 19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." Now let the people be the judge wether this verse is refering to a defenition of a Church

Some people like MJ make it seem that we should start another church because there are corruptions. One person (Azat) says church is all about money. at least go during the blessing of the grapes you get free grapes. I thing we have to pay for special events but i agree that it's overdone at some churches. The Church is not just about interpreting the scripture, it’s about badarak and recieving Christ body and blood in communion.

That depends on which God Armenia is much more important then the God you worship. I see that you first quote a man that murdered Armenians now you are trying to make being an Armenian is not important.

Just because there is corruption in a church it doesn't mean there is no God. Whose fault is it that there is coruption? Do you want the priest to do all the work without you lifting a finger to help? If you think there are things wrong in the church, do somthing about it, don't just stand outside and throw rocks. If there is corruption let us be good examples and get involved to correct the situation, not just complain about things. As for me i love the Armenian church i will do what i can to help and try to be a good example

MJ Why are you judging ?I've read the bible many times. Iquoted 1Tim3:15 explain who is the Pillar is it a book or a church? when i ask you where did you get your defenition of a church ?you apearently just heared someone say when two or three are gathered in my name, and you are repeating them and you are building doctorine on it. How would you know if you understand the bible right? there are 33000 churches that say they believe the bible and yet disagree on major issues. you should understand history you'll see that you have new teachings that were never taught by any church for 1500years I'm simply holding on to the faith that was passed on by jesus to the disciples to the armenians. Most people that judge the Armenian Church is because they don't understand it.

If you are a folower of Genghiz Khan are you going to teach to kill Armenians and Georgians as well? he wiped out families with wifes and kids. how can he be your hero? that is like quoting Hitler. i'd rather stick with Jesus since if you don't believe in the resurection you can't say you believe in Jesus

mj quote in black arad in red Jesus Christ has not established an Armenian Church or Russian Church or Georgian Church or a Greek one. The scripture clearly says that Christ has established His Church: are you saying that Jesus didn’t establish the Armenian Church? "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.” [Matthew 16:13-20] did Satan overpower the church? Therefore there should exist only one Church which should be called Christ’s Church. Don’t you agree to hold on to things that Christ past on to the Church and not add new teachings? The Armenian Church is not an authority for “Doctrinal” teachings – there are not even 5 clergy in what is called Armenian Church who are qualified to teach anything other than how to make money. Christianity is not about “Doctrines” but about the faith in Jesus Christ being the leaving Son of God and the Savor – something that is missing in the Armenian Church overall. Doctrines belong to Ministries of Foreign Affairs and so on but not to Churches. You seem pretty hostile against your mother church. I know it’s not as simple as you try to make it when you say just believe that means different thing to different people. For example there are people who believe but don’t believe Jesus is God, there are people that say you have to speak in tongues to be saved, there are people that say once saved always saved I could keep going these are major issues. Essential issues There is no need to interpret the New Testament - it is very clear. What needs to be done by the so-called Christians is to live by it and not to turn it into a cheap tool of propaganda, into a xenophobic “Doctrine,” money-making machine, tool for the enslavement for an entire people, etc, while driving Christ out. Also, Christ has not appointed anyone as the “head” of the Church and has clearly assigned only Himself on such capacity. Moreover, Christ has defined the Church as a gathering of three people who speak in His name. Can you show us where you got that? I don’t believe that you can that is what I meant by coming up with new teaching that were never taught by any church for 1500 years and Jesus according to the verse you quoted can’t overthrow the church. Therefore, He has sanctioned not just “33,000 different Protestant Churches” but up to two billion Churches (assuming that there are 6 billion people on the earth.) So has traditionally been the structure of the Armenian Church, btw. Catholicos has been a symbolic figure with no executive power. Each patriarchates remains as an autonomous entity even to this day. However, executive power has been exerciseded by the Catholicos since the times of Russian colonization and with the help of the Russian government. Again you are building on a lie that you heard nowhere it says the church is where two or three are gathered. Furthermore, Armenian Church has always been the instrument of foreign powers (invaders of Armenia) and has been a political rather than a spiritual establishment. These days it also has a socio-cultural significance. To this day, the Armenian Church serves foreign powers rather than the Good Lord, while the head of the Armenian Church is a well recognized criminal and Mafioso instilled on the throne by a well-known Armenian philanthropist. The Armenian Church is all about God. But you can’t understand. I don’t have a problem with reforming the church but when people who are trying to change the teachings and the traditions then this is why this whole discussion started Marten Luther was a man like you. When the roman catholic church didn’t fit his teaching he protested and used the excuse that the Church leaders were corrupt so he started his own new teachings that were never taught by any church, here you are a convert to that religion. Apperently you don’t understand what the armenian church is and The Armenian Church has not been there before we had Bible. I assume you are referring to the Armenian translation of the Bible. Prior to Mashtots, Syriaic version of the Bible has been used in the Armenian Church. The Old Testament has been finalized sometime around the 400 B.C. while the New Testament has been finalized at about or before 70 A.D (my dates may be somewhat off.) The Armenian Church as we know it has been established some time between 270A.D. to 315A.D. (the referenced dates are approximate.) And it is nothing but a heresy to call it “Lusavorchagan Church.” I’m referring to the books of the bible were not canonized until around 400ad otherwise nobody new which books belong in the bible until around 400ad, and it was through church councils that we know what is the bible. The only measure for “true teachings” is the Bible itself. well then I guess no one had true teaching until the church decided which books belong in the bible according to you. Your quote from Timothy 3:15 doesn’t serve you well. In fact it points to the leaving God as the owner of the Church. It was the church that is the pillar for truth not a book since the early church teaching were passed on by Jesus orally. Jesus didn’t write a book to the disciples. We in the Armenian church are building on the teaching of the apostles Eph2: 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone It is also clear that in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, which has been written some time prior to 63 A.D., Paul is speaking about the traditions that have existed amongst the first Christians who happed to be non-Armenians. Maybe not as a nation but we were there from the beginning. Our teaching are the same as the ones from the beginning.

The Armenian Church is the church that Jesus established by sending his Apostles, and it’s the church that Armenians as a whole accepted. What they accepted was the Lusavorchagan Church, it’s the same church that we have today. "What are the teachings of Armenian Church? Does it teach something other than what Christ and apostles have taught?" Mainly, the teachings of the church are the same as that of Christ and the Apostles. But what many people do is take the Bible (which is the teaching of the Apostles and Jesus) and start to interpret it the way they want and that’s why you have over 33,000 deferent Protestant churches. The Armenian Church is our authority for doctrinal teachings. They were there before we had the Bible. They have the true teachings. as Paul would say 1 Timothy 3:15 the church of the living God is the pillar and foundation of the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Is this the same Genghiz Khan that killed 10,000 Armenians and Georgians between 1220-1221? does Genghiz Khan believe in the resurrection?

First of all to mosjan and harout what are you guys saying??? Supposedly Luther wanted to reform the Roman Catholic Church because they were selling indulgances for the remission of sins And so on. what does that have to do with the Armenian church? That was his excuse for bringing about a new gospel and new teaching and new authority. If you want be a so called reformer in the Armenian Church, don’t try to change the teachings of the Armenian Church just because your personal interpretation doesn’t match that of the Church. Martin Luther was not a reformer but a Protestant he had a new gospel and a new teaching that was not taught by any church throughout history. Not even the Paulicians and Tondrakians taught what Luther taught. We can bring protestant all the way back to moses in the old testament when people were rebelling against the authority of Moses while crossing the Red Sea, they were Protestants. But we are not talking about just any Protestant, we are talking about the Protestants we have today in the Armenian Church.

You dont have to be first Roman Catholic to become Protestant. Its basically another branch of Christianity started by Luther in the late Middle Ages (cant remmember exact year). I think the first Protestant Armenians were converted by German missionaries operating in the Ottoman Empire early 20th Century. Not sure on this one though.... It started by Luther because supposedly he disagreed with the Roman Catholic church and not the armenian church

why are there Armenian Protestants? Weren't Protestants protesting from the Roman Catholic church? If an Armenian who was never Roman Catholic, and becomes a Protestant, then that makes one confused individual.