Hartun

Mos Jan usually people talk about the 6 "Vilayets" (Nahankner) these are: 1. Van 2. Bitlis (Daron) 3. Diyarbekir (Dikranagerd) 4. Mamuret-Ul-Aziz (Kharpert) 5. Erzurum (Garin) 6. Sivas (Sepastia) At the Centennial April 24 here in Detroit they named 12 areas of historic Armenia decimated during the Genocide. I think they got the names of these areas from the memorial of Dzidzernagapert which has 12 pillars. The 12 areas were the above 6, plus: 1. Kars 2. Batum 3. Trapizon 4. Ankara 5. Adana 6. Haleb maybe you are suprised to see the name of Ankara on the list. However aside from Kars and Batum, which were part of Russia, these other 10 areas were designated by the Vilayets of the Ottoman Empire not by historic regions of Armenia or even the dioceses of the various Armenian regions under the Armenian Church administration in Ottoman Empire. Kars and Batum as well were designated because they were Oblasts of the Russian Empire. For example, Haleb, though the people of the city of Haleb were mostly spared the Genocide, its Vilayet included places such as Musa Dagh, Kessab, Antioch, Aintab, Marash, and Urfa which Armenians don't necessarily associate with Haleb and which were affected by the Genocide. Similarly with Ankara, the city had only a small population of Armenians, mostly Catholic. But more importantly Ankara Vilayet included such places of Armenian settlements as Sivrihisar and Yozghat, and especially Gesaria with its many surrounding villages such as Talas, Germir, Efkere, Munjusun, Evereg, Fenese, Chomakhlu, Tomarza, Jujun, and Injesu. Armenians considered Gesaria its own region but in Ottoman maps it is part of Ankara Vilayet, and then I guess they didn't want to leave out the Yozghatsi's who are not part of Gesaria region. I was suprised to hear the name of Batum. I did not know that the Turkish army made incursions into this area...then I found out that Artvin and other cities in the area had belonged to Batum Oblast of the Russian Empire, they were given to Turkey after the war.

i could go into this in relation to food, music, language etc....people are always arguing and saying ridiculous things

very interesting article yervant. i find this to be a big problem in the armenian community where each group feels that the other group are not "real armenians"..... every community of armenians around the world has its own character derived from the places that they came from in armenia or in the diaspora southern california is very diverse but we have a lot of diversity on the east coast of the US as well. true, the community here is dominated by western armenians but in LA as I understand it's come to be dominated by hayastantsi's.....i haven't spent much time there so correct me if i'm wrong.

i think what daniel is looking for is artists like onnik dinkjian, etc. by classical he means traditional. of course there is no classical western armenian music, well there are a few, parsegh ganachian, alan hovhannes, ara bartevian, but when he said "old school music artists" i got his drift. i have a lot for him, too bad this thread started in 06.

Hmm...his voice is kind of like Marko Melkon....certain words he "shouts" instead of "sings", Melkon used to do that too...but I would never have thought of that if you didn't point it out. I saw that video before. Soghomon Tehlirian does not have a beard in any of his pictures. Neither do the others but some of them had mustaches. Also I don't think they had the green army "fatigues" back then, nor would they have worn them if they did. They were planning an assassination not going to battle in Vietnam. I like their suits though. So do you make your own oghi?

Hi pure shores, I don't know if you are still in need of this information as you posted almost 2 months ago. I would say as a start that first of all I wouldn't consider Seattle a key city of the Armenian Diaspora in the US. Let me give some information. presently, the largest Armenian communities in the US are: 1. Los Angeles 2. Boston 3. New York 4. Detroit 5. Fresno originally (in the 20s) Fresno was the largest and Los Angeles was a much smaller community, not in the top 5. but Fresno declined during the Great Depression, and the second and third waves of immigration largely settled in LA so by the mid 90s LA was the largest community (with Glendale being the most highly Armenian populated area) other major communities are Worcester MA, Providence, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Cleveland, Chicago, Racine WI, and San Francisco. there may be some others in California that i'm forgetting about. by the way, the second most highly Armenian populated place in the US is Watertown, MA which is a suburb of Boston. It's the only remaining equivalent to a "Little Armenia" outside of California and has been a large Armenian community since at least the 20s. but its not even comparable to Glendale anymore i could talk a lot about the Armenian communities of the East Coast/Midwest but i'm wondering what kind of information you are looking for? what type of key places are you interested in?

The wedding procession with candles singing "Te Hayrenyats Bsagatir" is a Sepastatsi tradition. It was performed at my parents' wedding and all the weddings in my mother's family. In America it is used as an entrance procession when the wedding party comes into the reception hall. All the older Sepastatsi men form a line 2 by 2 and hold candles. The bride and groom come behind them, then the gnkahayr, parents, etc. The men with the candles sing the song. In this way they make a procession to the head table where the wedding party then sits down. Arakel Badrig in his 2 volume book about Sepastia confirms that this song was also traditional in Sepastia. It was sung, after the church ceremony, as the wedding procession went to the groom's house. At the door of the grooms house they ended the song and a chicken was sacrificed and some other things I can't remember. He gives the lyrics to only some of the verses so I don't know if the entire song was sung. Today they sing only 2-3 verses...and not Asdvadz icher i Hayastan...they sing the verses "te hayrenyats bsagatir" "masyats kakatn togh kan" and "yev ge dzlin yev ge dzaghghin" Of course this cannot be a very old tradition as the poem was written by Srvantsdiants. I don't know who composed the music. And yeah, it has nothing to do with weddings other than the word "bsag". The alternative tradition is the Kharpertsi one where the bride is "danced in" to the song "Hars oo Pesa." That has spread among many Armenians and its considered a generic Wedding Song, noone remembers that it came from Kharpert. Most weddings that I go to (Detroit) use the Hars oo Pesa song. Only very traditional Sepastatsi families still sing Te Hayrenyats.

I read this elsewhere and then read the "calls" by the culture ministry of Turkey. They say that "all minorities are welcomed back to Anatolia" etc. but I can't imagine who would want to go back there after everything that has happened, except someone such as Yervant who was born there. The Turks are gradually realizing that Armenians don't have the power to demand reparations in money or land and now they are slowly making Eastern Turkey into a tourist attraction for Armenians from the West. They also know noone is going to respond to the call for minorities to return, so they can make such a statement to make themselves look good. Its sad, but to be honest I would probably end up visiting with the rest of them, after all I want to see my ancestral lands............