Farcical Parties

Arpa · January 26, 2006

Political Parties?

Some may prefer to call them Farcical Parties

Why do Armenians think everything is a joke?

Look at this farce.

I did not count to see how many below, I remember seeing a recent report that claimed Armenia to have 76 “political parties”. Can we call the “farcical parties”??

As we speak we are hearing reports about an election in a land that some claim to be a country of “savages”, Palestine.

Backward and savage?

Backward and savage people cannot have two, count them, two political parties.

Only the worlds’ most advanced and sophisticated country lik Armenia can have so many factions, one for each resident.

Speaking of Farcical Parties!!

List of political parties in Armenia

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Categories: Lists of political parties | Political parties in Armenia

Arpa · June 17, 2006

Please allow me to quote from the following thread.

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14...=0entry172393

Anahid Takouhi
between us, at least that's how you feel, I know as you have made it very clear to me. In 1915 Arpa, there was no Antelias and we all had one Echmiadzin and one Church masters to begin with, but you were right, we made ourselves weaker and weaker by letting those bloody Mongolian turks in our homeland about 1000 to 1200 AD as our anscesters didn't foresee the dangers rather than being united and arming themselves against the enemy, any of our enemies that surrounded us,

Dear Anahid, we know your heart is in the right place but at times it seems your mind plays tricks on you. Please read again what you wrote and what I wrote in the above thread, and pay particular attention what you said about The Cilician Catholicate (Antelias, I bolded the passage).

In that same post you acknowledge me as an “agnostic”. Maybe I am. I don’t know what I am, an agnostic, a skeptic or even a cynic, maybe all of the above. Yet what does any of those labels have to do with our ridiculous and “farcical factions”. See above the main topic of this thread. How many more ways can we divide the nation? You say you are a believer then I assume you read the Bible, open it to Matthew 6, 24

Matt.6

[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

And tell us which master we should serve. Which Catholicate serves the true God and which not.

You say I am “agnostic”, how can I not be in the prevailing atmosphere, how can I not see the hypocrisy? You say I am an agnostic, I accede, but in no way am I an atheist, perhaps my concept of God is a little or much different than your’s and others’, one thing I am not is antitheist, let every one believe in whatever kind of God, whatever kind of caricature of Him as presented to them in the religious texts they choose, even if at times it may border to idiocy. One thing I resent more than anything is when the Yerevantsis suspecting that we are diasporans, particularly from America (even if I can speak Yerevan Hayaren, they can spot us based on our idiom besides the way we dress.) And it never fails, the minute they spot us they attempt to talk about religion. This is nothing new, over 10 years in Gumri a young man approached me and began his harangue about how the Russians are our coreligionists and the Persians are not, I had to quickly turn him off with not so nice words. This time we were at the Pantheon and towards the end an older gentleman, I’m not sure if he was an employee or not, approached and the first word he uttered was “qristonia”, once again I had to turn him of with “Yes qristonia chem”, “Hapa inch es”?, “Yes krapasht em”. Similarly, at the vernisage all the merchants, as soon as they spot us they show us their religious art work. Once again I had to tell them that I was not a Christian. My companions would at times be highly scandalized at my responses but in time they would also realize that that was the quickest way to discourage persistent vendors.

I vehemently resent when Yerevanites do that to me, yet I cannot blame them as 99.9% of diasporans base their armenianness on the fact that they can recite the HayrMer, often incorrectly.

Yes, I may be that 0.09% percentile disaporan. Many of my acquaintances were amazed at my wide scope of culture. In fact one of them, a highly educated scientist was flabbergasted at a tidbit that I told him about Charents’ imprisonment, and he promised to search and learn. I may write about that under another cover.

I can go on and on, I am ranting again. But until and unless we become a nation, not a denomination or faction(see above), until and unless we let people believe whatever they choose, be it Antelias or Ejmiatsin, and let them sink in their own quicksand until they come to a point of bankruptcy and cry uncle. It will probably never happen as there are many who would run to rescue and commission yet another vacant church a few feet from a church.

When two billion Cahtolics can have one church, what is our problem?

Is there a Catholcate in Artsakh?

Why don’t we start one??!!

And, Anahid can you please tells about the virtues of maintaining a full blown Catholicate in the Diaspora.

Perhaps you know something we don’t.

When are we moving back to Kilikia??

Many of my neighbors, upon learning that I am Armenian ask me which church I attend the Dashnak or the “Hashnak”. That makes me wish the earth would open an swallow me. When did Dashnak or Hnchak become religious denominations?

Please read the history of “Antelias”;

http://www.hyeetch.nareg.com.au/religion/h_see_p4.html

Takoush · June 18, 2006

Arpa:

To begin with, I stand corrected about my previous statement that you have displayed it above in regards to Antelias' existence during the 1915 Genocide. Though I only read about it not too long ago but I have forgotten about it when I wrote. However, I believe that within the little or big towns of the Armenian Plateau around the 1915 times; the Churches belonging within the towns were under the denominations of Etchmiadzin. I am not talking for the Sis or the Cilician area of lands. If you know any better than this, you could correct me if I am mistaken. I don't think it is necessary however to undermine here about my intelligence or about my very mind. Is it Arpa? I am not doing it to you, why do it to me and unnecessarily hurt my feelings that way?

When I said you being Agnostic, I only repeated from what you have told us in your previous posts. I wasn't giving you an unnecessary name; but simply repeating from my knowledge from you. Thinking that that's what you want to be called as you believe that you are. If you believe that you are, then you should be content with that statement; as it is indicative to your very beliefs and thought processes.

About Armenians from Armenia approaching you there you being a Christian because it's true that more than 90% of Armenians are Christians in the diaspora; I don't see why you are upset about it; you are what you are in your beliefs; but they don't know about it because the majority are Christians. I would simply let them know as you have done it already and shrug it off. I wouldn't even feel much moved by the other tourists' reactions. You do have enormous knowledge of Armenian authors of their writings and the history of their writings; and I am sure your vast knowledge extends to the English language as well and the literatures of both languages and nationalities. I am completely aware of it and I don't deny it.

I am amased though of what you displayed above; I mean about today's Armenia having 76 partys in it. It is outright stupid and I agree, totally unnecessary. But please Arpa, stop addressing me your annoyance about the separation of the Churches in the Americas. I didn't do it. In fact, I wasn't born at the time, and I don't agree with it either. I am not happy about it same as you are unhappy. So please, don't address me anymore about Antelias and how they have separated from Etchmiadzin. Suppose if I was belonging solely to the Ramgavar party, would you have addressed to me as many times as you have? I don't know, but I don't approve of it either. Please try to remember that.

Edited June 18, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

Arpa · June 18, 2006

Note, even though some of the arguments below may have very litlle to do with the subject topic “Farcical Factions”, I took the liberty of transcribing some of Aanahid’s comments here to not so much argue about church and religion but as a timid attempt to revive the topic at hand. Even if some of the other debate bordered on politics with Antelias and Ejmiatsin etc. another “farcical factions” if I may say so. As to the main topic here, 76 parties. As far as I am concerned there seems to be two parties in Armenia, the incumbent and 75 opposition.. I told you I was politically handicapped, I don’t even know the difference between the US Republican and Democrat parties. Can some one please educate us as to who these “76 Trombones” are and what their agenda and aim?

If you know any better than this, you could correct me if I am mistaken. I don't think it is necessary however to undermine here about my intelligence or about my very mind. Is it Arpa? I am not doing it to you, why do it to me and unnecessarily hurt my feelings that way?

I didn’t know the details either. I had always assumed that Antelias was built the way we know it from day one, until you prompted me to read again, thank you. As to Mind playing tricks”, it has nothing to do with one’s intelligence. We all do it, sometimes deliberately but more often subconsciously.

When I said you being Agnostic, I only repeated from what you have told us in your previous posts. I wasn't giving you an unnecessary name; but simply repeating from my knowledge from you.

You seem to know me well enough. I was not at all hurt by that comment, on the contrary I take it as a compliment, as you can see I even carried it further to the point of “atheism”. I am not at all ashamed of my freedom of choice, I pick and choose whether to subscribe to the vindictive, hateful, warlike and unforgiving God of the OT or the loving, forgiving and peaceable One of the NT.

About Armenians from Armenia approaching you there you being a Christian because it's true that more than 90% of Armenians are Christians in the diaspora;

Once again my main point may have been totally missed. I said nothing about “90% of Armenians being Christian or not”, 90% of the natives profess to be Christians too, what I said was, why is it that the natives take us diasporas as knowing nothing about our culture except crosses, khachkars and pieces of art with religious themes. They never show us or talk to us about Charents, Sevak, Sarian, Ayvazovsky, Khachaturian, Tigranian, and yes, Komitas. And I did give the reason above as 99% of us diasporas know beans about the latter, most base their armenianness on their ability to recite the Hayr Mer, often incorrectly.

I am amased though of what you displayed above; I mean about today's Armenia having 76 partys in it. It is outright stupid and I agree, totally unnecessary. But please Arpa, stop addressing me your annoyance about the separation of the Churches in the Americas. I didn't do it. In fact, I wasn't born at the time, and I don't agree with it either. I am not happy about it same as you are unhappy. So please, don't address me anymore about Antelias and how they have separated from Etchmiadzin. Suppose if I was belonging solely to the Ramgavar party, would you have addressed to me as many times as you have? I don't know, but I don't approve of it either. Please try to remember that.

Yes it is a shame that there are so many “farcical factions”. You think these people would have something better to do, like start businesses, or fix the sidewalks (An article about that is forthcoming) etc. But the latter takes smarts while starting so called political parties only takes hot air. And boy, was it hot in Yerevan this June!. . Read about June in Yerevan at ArmeniaNow. The fact that our divisions are historical (before you and I were born) it in no way justifies. Historically Armenia was divided in many ways at different times, eastern and western, Greater and Lesser, northern and southern, so based on that historical precedent shall we divide it once again, like north of Yerevan, Shirak will be Greater and south of Yerevan Syunik be Lesser? And we can always pass the buck saying: ”We have always been divided, we have always had more than one Hayastan.

Church “belonging to Ramgavar or Dashnak”? When did they become religious denominations, or for that matter when did the church become a political akumb?

Once again, if we are the Christians that we say we are, if our clergy had the fortitude of Jesus… see below.

John.2

[14] And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

[15] And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Of course, our clergy don’t have the fortitude but above all they don’t have the independence and the financial means to do what Jesus did at the temple above. Of coure not. They are not as stupid as we think. They know who pays for their penthouses in Manhattan, their Cadilacs, Mercedeses and RollsRoyces, they know who that Hakob, Karapet and Anbakum Abushian is.

What Armenia and Armenians may need is a benevolent dictator for a period of time, to sweep clean all those so called farcical political parties and force the people to mind their businesses and stop politicians and “presidents“, or president wannabes for that. Every country can have one president at a time, even the mightiest of them all, with 300 million US . I am not the first to suggest this, recently I saw a piece of news where others had also suggested it. Yet once again, judging from history a move like that may create a more violent reaction. For over 70 years Armenia did have a “benevolent”?? dictator and look what happened the minute it fell… 76 political parties? The number may go up 77, 78 or even 80 by the time I finish writing this as one is born every day. P T Barnum had said “One is born every minute.. Sucker, that is“.

PS. And Anahid, please don’t take what I say as personal attacks, I just use some quotes as a launching pad, a springboard. I know you are highly intelligent and knowledgeable except that, just like me and others at times we fly the handle too quick and respond before we completely digest the intended message. As always we still love you.

Edited June 18, 2006 by Arpa

Arpa · June 18, 2006

Only 76?

C’mon guys. What’s the matter with you! How about raise that number to 76000. That way we will include each and every one who professes to be Armenian.

Who is that 77th person who does not have the "eggs", has not yet registered ?

Is it our own house dissident Vahe Avetian?

Who is that one person party?

As the story goes, during one of equally farcical Lebanese elections "Mohammed al Makkawi "got only ONE vote, he went home and beat his wife .

Sorry.

Vahe lives 3000 miles away from Yerevan.

Is it me?

I also live several thousand miles away from Yerevan, plus, as I have said repeatedly, I am a politically handicapped idiot.

See?

I can’t even spell the word- politikaka.

Who said Armenians don't have a sense of (sick) humor!

Let me nominate Alfred E Newman for president. :huh:

Edited June 18, 2006 by Arpa

Takoush · June 18, 2006

I didn’t know the details either. I had always assumed that Antelias was built the way we know it from day one, until you prompted me to read again, thank you. As to Mind playing tricks”, it has nothing to do with one’s intelligence. We all do it, sometimes deliberately but more often subconsciously.

You are welcomed. And yes you are right, I suppose I shouldn't have taken it personally; but I suppose I did because of our past and unnecessary anhamoutyuns of the past between us that I took it more than it was. Thanks for making me see it in the right context.

You seem to know me well enough.I was not at all hurt by that comment, on the contrary I take it as a compliment, as you can see I even carried it further to the point of “atheism”. I am not at all ashamed of my freedom of choice, I pick and choose whether to subscribe to the vindictive, hateful, warlike and unforgiving God of the OT or the loving, forgiving and peaceable One of the NT.

Yes, even after a little while I have got to know you and your great knowlege of language and literature; unlike most and I mean most diasporan Armenians that I do know. I should say that you are really a medavoragan man.

Once again my main point may have been totally missed. I said nothing about “90% of Armenians being Christian or not”, 90% of the natives profess to be Christians too, what I said was, why is it that the natives take us diasporas as knowing nothing about our culture except crosses, khachkars and pieces of art with religious themes. They never show us or talk to us about Charents, Sevak, Sarian, Ayvazovsky, Khachaturian, Tigranian, and yes, Komitas. And I did give the reason above as 99% of us diasporas know beans about the latter, most base their armenianness on their ability to recite the Hayr Mer, often incorrectly.

I apologise here for not reading through thoroughly and the meanings behind your words that was about indeed Armenians in the diaspora being non-knowledgeable about their anscestral history, literature, poets or like you said [beans] about their Armenian knowledge. Often not being able to recite the Hayr Mer for that matter.

You were upset I see, that they took you for the majority not savvy person, when they are indeed greeting a medavoragan man [YOU]. It's very unfortunate though that people in here are so preoccupied with themselves that they don't want to find any time to get acquainted with their history, literature and so forth.

What can I say Arpa? They simply become self centered through the years and anhok people.

The fact that our divisions are historical (before you and I were born) it in no way justifies. Historically Armenia was divided in many ways at different times, eastern and western, Greater and Lesser, northern and southern, so based on that historical precedent shall we divide it once again, like north of Yerevan, Shirak will be Greater and south of Yerevan Syunik be Lesser? And we can always pass the buck saying: ”We have always been divided, we have always had more than one Hayastan.

That's all we need :huh: I know you're being sarcastic but can you imagine if they did that in the smallest and the tiniest Armenia that we have? It would really be whimsical as it is already very whimsical and to the point of annoyance that we have so many political stupid parties. It is stupid and annoying to me too. You are right; rather than thinking through to find real jobs to fix sidewalks or job creating, job finding ways they are making more and more of "hot air" with the creation of zillion gousagtsoutyuns. I don't know but it's not being good or creative.

Church “belonging to Ramgavar or Dashnak”? When did they become religious denominations, or for that matter when did the church become a political akumb?
Once again, if we are the Christians that we say we are, if our clergy had the fortitude of Jesus… see below.

Yes, I understand your point in matter that it is unnecessary and not right; but parties indeed should have their businesses elsewhere and not mingling or minding the Church. What can I say? I think your suggestion below makes good sense to me. In fact I like it. I mean about Armenia and Armenians to needing and to having a benevolent dictator for a period of time, to sweep and clean thos stupid farcical political parties and force the people to mind their businesses and be more constructive and creative for their own good.

What Armenia and Armenians may need is a benevolent dictator for a period of time, to sweep clean all those so called farcical political parties and force the people to mind their businesses and stop politicians and “presidents“, or president wannabes for that. Every country can have one president at a time, even the mightiest of them all, with 300 million US.

And Anahid, I know you are highly intelligent and knowledgeable except that, just like me and others at times we fly the handle too quick and respond before we completely digest the intended message.

I hope so Arpa; I am trying to go to school to become more knowledgeable, smarter, and also to have a diploma; but above all to become more educated, more knowledgeable and a savvy individual. There is nothing better than that. In my school there are still many mature students like myself who try to educate themselves because they want to. They see the need for it and the benefits of having acquired a more higher education. It is wonderful and it is not late.

As always we still love you.

Thanks, me too.

Edited June 18, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

Yervant1 · June 19, 2006

Who is that 77th person who does not have the "eggs", has not yet registered ?

Hi Arpa I just registered my new party "The Pissing Bear Party"

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