Gul Reminded About His Armenian Origin

[Sahak]

The Armenian apology campaign launched by a group of scientists,

writers, artists, journalists and representatives of nongovernmental

organizations was discussed at the meeting of Foreign Relations

Commission of Turkish parliament on December 17.

 

Parliamentarians from opposition parties Republican People's Party

(CHP) and National Movement Party (MHP) offered to make a statement

condemning those supporting the campaign, the Azeri Press Agency said

quoting some Turkish media reports.

 

Member of MHP, parliamentarian Canan Aritman called the organizers of

the campaign betrayers. "False scientists signing it should apologize

to Turkey," she said.

 

Aritman also criticized President Abdullah Gul's attitude about

the campaign. Saying that Abdullah Gul was encouraged by his visit

to Armenia, Aritman dropped a hint that the president's mother was

Armenian.

 

"We see that the president supports this campaign. Abdullah Gul should

be the president of the whole Turkish nation, not of his ethnic

origin. Investigate the ethnic origin of the president's mother,

and you will see," she said.

 

Some claim that Abdullah Gul's mother was born to an Armenian-origin

family from Kayseri and father was an Arab moved to Kayseri.

 

 

 

[Sahak]

If true I am a little shocked. The ultra nationalist are attacking him for not denouncing the Apology campaign.Could be deep down he knows the truth?

[DominO123]

If true I am a little shocked. The ultra nationalist are attacking him for not denouncing the Apology campaign.Could be deep down he knows the truth?

 

some things have changed in the geopolitical situation.

[Arpa]

If true I am a little shocked. The ultra nationalist are attacking him for not denouncing the Apology campaign.Could be deep down he knows the truth?

Hang on to your suspenders. http://www.aceuniforms.com/osCommerce/cata..._suspenders.gif

GUL: ARMENIAN APOLOGY CAMPAIGN SIGN OF TURKISH PEOPLE'S RECONCILIATION WITH THEIR HISTORY PanARMENIAN.Net 19.12.2008 15:06 GMT+04:00 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Turkish army slammed Friday the online public apology to Armenians. "This move will have harmful consequences," Brigadier General Metin Gurak said. Meanwhile, the presidential press center has said that President Abdullah Gul eyes recent discussions in the Turkish public opinion and academic circles over the 1915 events as a sign of existence of a democratic discussion atmosphere in Turkey ….

Some may never forgive gul for his visit to Yerevan.

Is there a deeper rift in Ankara than we know? Note that gul has not said much about the matter, while erkagan has.

In furkey calling one an “ermeni” is the ultimate insult, and that one’s mother is ermeni is tantamount to saying “son of a whore”. Remember that they also said that (bedros) hamid’s mother was an Armenian, simply because he was so ugly and deformed as only an “ermeni” could be. Not to forget tat they also claimed that Ochalan (Abdullah nicknamed Abo/Apo), the Kurd was also an “ermeni”. How can we forget that clown Halachoglu ,who was sacked, when claimed that the majority of eastern Anatolians (ancestral Armenian Lands) were of “ermeni” origin? Of course we know, he did not mean it as a compliment but an INSULT. But apparently it backfired and burned his “eshek”.

Also note that ergakan with his blond reddish hair looks more like the Serbo-Bosnian Milosevic , while gul with his dark hair and round face looks more like Serj cum moustache.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Arpa

[MyTerrain]

Gul is not Armenian he's a mongol turd, just look at his narrow eyes and ugly cheekbones. Who the hell spread these rumors? They are trying to lower us to their dog race level I hate that.

[Ashot]

MyTerrain - read it carefully, they are not saying he is Armenian, they are stating his mother had an Armenian origin. there is a difference!

[Arpa]

It is time to stop hyperventilating and aim the hammer at the nail. Hit them where it hurts most.

Is furkey coming apart at the seams, losing its feathers, reminiscent of the story of the “Emperor has no Clothes”?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/LimaFoxtrot/ksmn336l.jpg

I should consider amending my screen name to Margar.

Look what I wrote above a day before the following from Ankara.

Some may never forgive gul for his visit to Yerevan.

Is there a deeper rift in Ankara than we know? Note that gul has not said much about the matter, while erkagan has.

One other quote that makes me laugh, the most hilarious comedic line of the all history is when the likes of ergakan say in re to the campaign to affirm the Genocide or stories like he current one- “this jeopardize and harm our ‘friendly talks with Armenia’” . HUH! “friendly talks”?

Let me nominate ergakan for the comedic clown of the year award!

Turkey's president steps into row

By Delphine Strauss in Ankara

FT

December 18 2008 23:37

Turkey's president Abdullah Gul intervened on Thursday to defuse an

explosive debate over a campaign by Turkish writers apologising for the

massacres of ethnic Armenians in the last years of the Ottoman empire.

More than 13,000 people have added their names to the website

www.ozurdiliyoruz (`we apologise') launched on Monday by a group of

intellectuals, in a sign of changing attitudes to one of the most

sensitive episodes in Turkey's past.

The campaign has angered nationalists.

Prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan fiercely criticised the initiative

on Wednesday, saying: `It will not have any benefit other than stirring

up trouble, disturbing our peace and undoing the steps which have been

taken.'

But the events of 1915 ` the delicate term used by Turkish diplomats `

remain a subject of bitter contention between Armenians, who say they

suffered genocide, and Turkey, which contends thousands of Turks also

died during the final years of the Ottoman empire and denies systematic

planning.

But Mr Gul distanced himself from that criticism on Thursday, saying in

a statement that while he had worked to promote Turkey's official

position abroad, the public debate showed Turks now felt `more

self-confident and at peace with their history'.

 

The difference in tone between the president and prime minister

may fuel speculation that relations are cooling between the two men, long-standing

political allies before Mr Gul's election as president in July 2007.

 

Mr Gul won international praise in September when he signalled

rapprochement with Armenia by attending a football match between the

national sides in Yerevan ` the first visit by a Turkish head of state.

Cengiz Aktar, one of the organisers of the online apology, said denial

of the bloodshed of 1915 was `a founding myth of modern Turkey'.

The text of the apology does not use the word genocide, referring

instead to `the Great Catastrophe', but its implication that modern

Turks bear responsibility for the actions of the Ottoman regime has

provoked furious protest.

Opposition politicians branded the campaign `treason' and `degeneracy';

retired diplomats, remembering colleagues killed by Armenian activists

in the 1970s, issued their own declaration; and rival websites such as

www.ozurdilemiyoruz.com/ (`we don't apologise') have sprung up.

Sinan Ulgen, head of the EDAM think-tank, said the debate could hinder talks,

since Armenians would take a tougher line if they thought public opinion in Turkey had shifted,

but the nationalist outcry would in fact leave less room for concessions.

`We need to give as free rein to the negotiations as we can. . .

unhindered by this sort of public debate which will backfire,' he said.

But the campaign reflects frustration among liberals that little has

changed since the murder in 2007 of Hrant Dink, the Armenian

journalist, which at the time sparked an outpouring of sympathy and

hopes of reconciliation.

On Tuesday, the European Court of Human Rights ruled against Turkey in

two cases dating back to the 1950s and 60s, ordering it to return

properties seized from two Armenian foundations or pay compensation

totalling ?¬875,000 (£830,000).

 

 

 

[Arpa]

It is time to stop hyperventilating and aim the hammer at the nail. Hit them where it hurts most.

Is furkey coming apart at the seams, losing its feathers, reminiscent of the story of the “Emperor has no Clothes”?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/LimaFoxtrot/ksmn336l.jpg

I should consider amending my screen name to Margar.

Look what I wrote above a day before the following from Ankara.

Some may never forgive gul for his visit to Yerevan.

Is there a deeper rift in Ankara than we know? Note that gul has not said much about the matter, while erkagan has.

One other quote that makes me laugh, the most hilarious comedic line of the all history is when the likes of ergakan say in re to the campaign to affirm the Genocide or stories like he current one- “this jeopardize and harm our ‘friendly talks with Armenia’” . HUH! “friendly talks”?

Let me nominate ergakan for the comedic clown of the year award!

Turkey's president steps into row

By Delphine Strauss in Ankara

FT

December 18 2008 23:37

Turkey's president Abdullah Gul intervened on Thursday to defuse an

explosive debate over a campaign by Turkish writers apologising for the

massacres of ethnic Armenians in the last years of the Ottoman empire.

More than 13,000 people have added their names to the website

www.ozurdiliyoruz (`we apologise') launched on Monday by a group of

intellectuals, in a sign of changing attitudes to one of the most

sensitive episodes in Turkey's past.

The campaign has angered nationalists.

Prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan fiercely criticised the initiative

on Wednesday, saying: `It will not have any benefit other than stirring

up trouble, disturbing our peace and undoing the steps which have been

taken.'

But the events of 1915 ` the delicate term used by Turkish diplomats `

remain a subject of bitter contention between Armenians, who say they

suffered genocide, and Turkey, which contends thousands of Turks also

died during the final years of the Ottoman empire and denies systematic

planning.

But Mr Gul distanced himself from that criticism on Thursday, saying in

a statement that while he had worked to promote Turkey's official

position abroad, the public debate showed Turks now felt `more

self-confident and at peace with their history'.

 

The difference in tone between the president and prime minister

may fuel speculation that relations are cooling between the two men, long-standing

political allies before Mr Gul's election as president in July 2007.

 

Mr Gul won international praise in September when he signalled

rapprochement with Armenia by attending a football match between the

national sides in Yerevan ` the first visit by a Turkish head of state.

Cengiz Aktar, one of the organisers of the online apology, said denial

of the bloodshed of 1915 was `a founding myth of modern Turkey'.

The text of the apology does not use the word genocide, referring

instead to `the Great Catastrophe', but its implication that modern

Turks bear responsibility for the actions of the Ottoman regime has

provoked furious protest.

Opposition politicians branded the campaign `treason' and `degeneracy';

retired diplomats, remembering colleagues killed by Armenian activists

in the 1970s, issued their own declaration; and rival websites such as

www.ozurdilemiyoruz.com/ (`we don't apologise') have sprung up.

Sinan Ulgen, head of the EDAM think-tank, said the debate could hinder talks,

since Armenians would take a tougher line if they thought public opinion in Turkey had shifted,

but the nationalist outcry would in fact leave less room for concessions.

`We need to give as free rein to the negotiations as we can. . .

unhindered by this sort of public debate which will backfire,' he said.

But the campaign reflects frustration among liberals that little has

changed since the murder in 2007 of Hrant Dink, the Armenian

journalist, which at the time sparked an outpouring of sympathy and

hopes of reconciliation.

On Tuesday, the European Court of Human Rights ruled against Turkey in

two cases dating back to the 1950s and 60s, ordering it to return

properties seized from two Armenian foundations or pay compensation

totalling ?¬875,000 (£830,000).

 

 

 

[Arpa]

Remember that in furkey being called an "ermeni" is an insult, not a compliment.

----

The crap has hit the fan., turkey feathers flying all over the place.

http://www.clipartandcrafts.com/papercraft...thers-craft.gif

Here is what they are saying;

Btw, whatever happened to that other turkey aka paul goble? Is he rubbing feathers with that chick in baku?

ABDULLAH GUL TO FILE A CHARGE AGAINST AN OPPOSITIONIST WHO CALLED HIS MOTHER ARMENIAN

ArmInfo

2008-12-22 12:09:00

ArmInfo. President of Turkey Abdullah Gul will file a charge against

the member of the Republican People's party Janan Aritman who called

his mother an Armenian, Bakililar.AZ reported. My relatives are

purebred Turks, A. Gul said. The offender of the president's family

will answer in the court.

To recall, earlier, J. Aritman dropped a hint that the president's

mother was Armenian. "We see that the president supports this

campaign. Abdullah Gul should be the president of the whole Turkish

nation, not of his ethnic origin. Investigate the ethnic origin of

the president's mother, and you will see," he said.

And another

GUL DECLARES HIS FAMILY IS MUSLIM AND TURKISH

armradio.am

22.12.2008 13:43

President Abdullah Gul released a statement yesterday about his

family's ethnic origins in response to a Republican People's Party

(CHP) deputy's attempt to link the president's attitude toward a

recently launched apology campaign for the Armenian killings at

the hands of the late Ottoman Empire in 1915 to his ethnic roots,

Today's Zaman reported.

As CHP deputy Canan Arıtman who claimed that President Gul's mother is

of Armenian origin, continued to attack the president in an interview

published in the Milliyet daily yesterday, saying that she would like

to throw a shoe at the president when she sees him in the same way

an Iraqi journalist last week hurled a shoe at visiting US President

George W. Bush. Gul released a statement denying claims that his

family has Armenian roots.

In his statement yesterday, Gul announced that his mother's side,

the Satoglu family from Kayseri, and his father's side, the Gul family

also from Kayseri, are Muslim and Turkish, according to centuries of

written genealogy records.

"I respect the ethnic background, different beliefs and family ties of

all my citizens and see this as a reality and also the wealth of our

country with its imperial history. I also would like to emphasize

that all my citizens are equal to one another regardless of any

differences. No one has any superiority whatsoever over another

one. Everybody has the equal and same rights under the guarantee of

our Constitution," the statement read. "I am proud of our country,

which has reached this level of understanding."

 

When Gul was asked for his opinion on the campaign, he said the

state's stance is to improve relations with its neighbors. "We

believe dialogue to be the solution for problems we have with our

neighbors. Perpetuating problems is not useful to anyone," he said.

 

[Arpa]

Remember that in furkey being called an "ermeni" is an insult, not a compliment.

----

The crap has hit the fan., turkey feathers flying all over the place.

Even though the folloeing item may better fit undet the topic of "Comedistan", nevertheless..

They are still searching to see what a "furk" is. Is it a "son of an "'ermeni'whore"?Also note that what ergagan below refers to "riz,rize, laz" is what we know as Hamshen.

MANIFESTAIONS OF IDENTITY IN TURKEY

Ruben Melkonyan

"Noravank" Foundation

22 January 2009

In Turkish reality the issue of ethnic origin is rather delicate and it

often finds reflection in politics, directly touches on state officials

and politicians, causing different speculations. In Turkish "national"

state belonging to other ethnos is regarded as an insult, something

equal to "alien". It is also a widespread method of "accusations"

perceptible by vast masses.

 

Very often state officials of high rank and politicians have to go

into the problem of ethnic identity and relating "accusations". You

can notice some blurr and contradictions in their statements and

comments. Among high-ranking Turkish officials the name of Turkish

prime-minister Recep Erdogan is often mentioned in the context of

ethnic identity and it is pointed out that he is not "pure-blooded"

Turk. In the course of the discussion on his name on 6th December,

1997 in Sghert Erdogan tried to answer these accusations with his

inherent ingenuousness: "They say I'm rizian or laz. I say that I am

not laz. I asked about it my father, and he asked his grandfather who

was mullah and he answered this way: "Tomorrow we'll die. God will

ask: "Who's your god, who's your prophet, what's your religion? He

will not ask about your nationality or kin. And then you answer:

"Thank God I'm Muslim" and pass by.

 

But if we follow the ideas he expressed later, we'll see that he

contradicts himself. Thus on 21st May, 2004 in Romania he declared

that: "There are no more ideologies in the world. Both ethnic and

religious ideologies are perishable". This was followed by another

statement which contradicted to the foregoing and which was made

on 11th August, 2004 in Georgia: "I am also Georgian; our family is

Georgian family which moved from Batum to Rize". And on 12th April,

2005 in Norway Erdogan said: "I'm Rizian, my wife is from Aghert,

she is Arab and not Turk".

 

Such a mess in his thoughts let Turkish media suppose that Erdogan

is in the identity crisis now.

 

Different observations and facts let us attend, that among Turkish

Armenians who had adopted Islam and their successors there is a strata

of those who, having Armenian origin not only reject it, but also

try to prove to their milieu their "pure-blooded Turkish" or Muslim

descent and become convinced anti-Armenian. There is definitely some

psychological point too.

 

They psychologically regard the part of Armenians who could abide

to their roots as their main enemies. The hostile attitude towards

Armenians in Turkish society is also an important condition

of anti-Armenian manifestations among those who had Armenian

origins. They psychological ly don't want to belong to the hostile

nation, that's why they choose the road of assimilation with the

dominant nation. Turning to this matter, the ethnographer Harutyun

Marutyan expresses the following idea: "Publications, direct and

indirect pressure of political and economic character may cause

people to try to get rid of pinned labels, change their milieu,

break off with their relatives and people of the same nation and in

fact choose the road of assimilation and estrangement".

 

Different sources impute Armenian or at least "non-pure Turkish"

origin to many famous Turkish nationalists, and this, as it was

mentioned above, can be used in political speculations. Among such

examples we would like to mention the statement which was put into

circulation recently saying that one of the most ardent anti-Armenians,

the chairman of Workers party Dogu Perinchek has Armenian roots. We

should remind you, that he is one of the most active extirpators

of international recognition of the Armenian Genocide and he was

condemned for the denial of the Genocide in Switzerland.

 

Some Turkish circles made a big stink, and Perinchek was nicknamed

as "the conqueror of Lozano". The radical-chairman of Workers party

evaluates the Armenian Genocide as "imperialistic lie".

 

Perinchek's son is in the track of his father and he also joined the

struggle against the recognition of the Genocide. It is worth noting

that at present Dogu Perinchek is detained on "Ergenekon" terrorist

organization case which caused a sensation in Turkey.

 

The scandalous disclosure of his roots drew a wide response in Turkish

media. Thus, it was mentioned that Dogu is a native of Apchagha village

in province of Eghin (Akn, Erznka). It is worth noting that province

of Akn is well known for the great number of apostate Armenians and

historical sources confirm that up to 1915 this province was inhabited

mainly by Christians, generally Armenians and Georgians.

 

But Turkish magazine "Chronicle" came out with more serious facts of

Perinchek's origin. There are quotations from archival documents of the

Ottoman court in the article which give information on demographic,

social, economic, religious, ethnic situation in the region. In

accordance with them there were many Armenians in the region at the

close of 19th and the beginning of 20th century. Most of them were

craftsmen, and they mainly lived in village of Akn. There were also

many Armenians in the villages of Kemer-gab, Apchagha, Ilich and

e.t.c. The village of Apchagha, the native village of Perinchek's

ancestors, was mainly inhabited by Armenians. The village headman,

the members of the council of elders were Armenians. Some of their

names have even remained in the court records: the son of Hakob

Krikor, the son of Artin Kirkor and e.t.c. As it was20mentioned in

the foregoing article there was wide spread and at the same time

interesting regularity among Armenians of Akn. They all had generic

names (it should be mentioned for comparison that the surname law was

put into circulation only in 1934, and only after that Turks began to

use surnames), but it is interesting that most of them were made up of

Turkish names: Mouratoglu, Degirmendjioglu, Chilingirolu, Ayvazoglu,

Perinchegoglu and e.t.c. But there was one more interesting detail

in the records of the court. In spite of the fact that most of them

had Turkish generic names, their surnames were Armenian. Turkish and

other surnames were exclusions. In that very court documents there

are records saying that the Perinchoglus were Armenians, and there are

even court cases where they were involved and there was mentioned that;

"Perinchoglu Stepan and Khachatur of Armenian "millet" (nation)". The

father of Dogu Perinchek's grandfather Mehmet Sadik was born in 1850

in Apchagha. His son Mehmet Djemal Perinchek also was born in the same

village (1887). But as you can see, their surnames are not Armenian

and, in fact, the above mentioned peculiarity is infringed. This

may be regarded as exclusion but the facts from the court documents

throw light on this and many other questions. Thus in the records of

Ottoman court it was written clearly that Mehmet Sadik Perinchoglu was

"muhetdi", and

 

muhetdi means a person who has converted the faith, it means that

he had adopted Islam in the second half of 19th century, but there

was nothing said about the reasons of the conversion of faith. This

also means that Islam conversion policy with its ascents and declines

continued during the whole history of Ottoman state. Dogu Perinchek

is the offspring of Islamized Armenian. His Armenian descend made

him take the road of self-denial and Turkish chauvinism.

 

However even this circumstance does not save the likes of Perinchek

from the danger of accusation of being non-Turkish by Turkish

society. This is what Bagrat Esdukyan, the journalist of "Akos"

daily, writes about in his article "Who is Armenian?": "What can we

say to those who have disavowed their nation? Those who have not only

disavowed but even hate their nation. But it occurs that collective

memory doesn't let you disavow your nation. It will reveal the true

face of the adjurers and show what they have been trying to escape

from for their whole life".

Edited January 23, 2009 by Arpa