Armenian Church In Bagdad Attacked

[Armen]

Having energy and determination is one thing, having it at the right place is another.

I just hate feeling like hyena

[gamavor]

OK, I'm with Vigil again!

[Sip]

Is this "Vigil against everone" chess game? I am changing my side guys. Call me a defector but Vigil's energy and determination are inspiring.

Well, before I knew it I was some sort of Islam blasting, turkey loving, Israel adoring, Armenian traitor. With the exception of turkey loving , it's Vigil himself that somehow thinks everyone is against him. Even if you don't say anything, he'll find words to put in your mouth.

[DominO123]

OK, I'm with Vigil again!

Why are the lawyers always on my opposit sides? I oppose, I think I need a lawyer.

Edited August 3, 2004 by Fadix

[Aidin-Sabetian]

Don't blame Islam, it's a peaceful religion hijacked by fanatics. 

 

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

oh yeah?!?

 

Should I respect a Nazi? why shouldn't i HATE them?!!!?

 

-------

I bet you don't have a clue what Sunnah, Quran and Hadith are, and the cock and bull stories in them.

being an atheist I've screwed all these religions long ago

 

 

Surah 23. The Believers

1. The believers must (eventually) win through,-

2. Those who humble themselves in their prayers;

3. Who avoid vain talk;

4. Who are active in deeds of charity;

5. Who abstain from sex,

6. Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives)

whom their right hands POSSESS,- for (in their case) they are free from

blame,

Translation: Yusuf Ali Meal which is one of the most valid translations of Quran & it's approved by Al-Azhar university in egypt

 

 

wait for more

Edited August 3, 2004 by Aidin-Sabetian

[Nakharar]

(Aidin-Sabetian @ Aug 2 2004, 07:52 AM)

ahhhhh ***in' muslims  again

islam is nothing but a cult of hate and death, the choice religion of 9 out of 10 pedophiles worldwide 

 

 

I guess that last one is the catholic priest

 

Good one, Sip!!

[Vigil]

It depends on how WE act. If we're effective enough to persuade the U.S., they may change their mind. Americans are never fixed on something as if it is the ultimate truth.

 

Armen, persuade her with what? Using Armenia as a Turkish, Israeli, and American military satellite, so, that they can further isolate Russia? Like I stated earlier, in the long run it would be more beneficial for Armenia to have good relations with Russia as opposed to America.

 

In fact the recent drift between America and France, makes sticking to Russia a safer bet in that through Russian they may one day join the EU, but sticking to a nation that directly supports you're rival is just suicide.

 

However, I am not blaming Americans and or stating that what they are doing is wrong because supporting Turkey is a good geopolitically investment, but morally, it is a bad decision.

 

Well, before I knew it I was some sort of Islam blasting, turkey loving, Israel adoring, Armenian traitor. With the exception of turkey loving , it's Vigil himself that somehow thinks everyone is against him. Even if you don't say anything, he'll find words to put in your mouth. 

 

Seaphan, I just do not like the way you buy into this entire propaganda of how the Iraqi opposition is a terrorist group. If Turkish soldiers and tanks occupied Armenia, I am sure; you would be singing a different tune. Their is no reason why America has stationed itself in Iraq and is "rebuilding" Iraq by signing contracts with American construction firms when the only reason Iraq needs “rebuilding” is because of American bombs. To you they may be terrorists, but to the Iraqis they are a liberation front. Like to us Monte was a “freedom fighter” and to the rest of the world he was a known terrorist. I just want you to be consistent with you’re views, that is all.

 

In no way am I "supporting" terrorism, however, to solely blame the actions on the Armenians is wrong because of the fact that Armenians have been living in some Islamic nations with no problems. However, to blame everything on Islam and or call it an "evil" religion is, equally, wrong and no different then radical Muslims labeling Christianity with a “evil” co-notation.

 

The bottom line is that when you ever you approach a problem with "aggression" you will always be confronted with "aggression". The American foreign policy is “aggressive” and Imperialistic. If Americans want terrorism to stop they must stop providing weapons to Israel and Turkey. Furthermore, they must stop meddling in the affairs of other nations. In no way does America have the moral justification to invade any country and like John Kerry implied, Americans should first decide if their actions are on the side of God before they assume that they are indeed doing “Gods work” because we all know that a true Christian will never succumb to blackmail.

 

Arabs are not stupid and know that all the weapons used against them were supplied by the Americans. If America wants "world peace" it should stop selling arms to feuding countries. In fact it should stop selling arms period, but because the bombs are not dropped on Washington D.C., it finds it "ok". Furthermore, it should have a more "universal" foreign policy instead of putting her thumb on nations that may not see, eye to eye, with her.

 

So, when one of these "arms" is used against her, she should have seen it coming. The only problem is that now, Israel, has made this into a war on Islam instead of Terror. They have successfully connected their regional problems to that of Americas.

 

In short, I just find it strange that these "terrorist" do not attack Russia, China, and the rest of world, but solely "terrorize" America, Israel, and Turkey. Now, Armenians are being used as a tool to justify America’s aggression and at the same time the Iraqi opposition is using them as a way of “protesting”.

 

Having energy and determination is one thing, having it at the right place is another.

 

Domino, I have my "energy and determination" in the right place, so, quit trying to assume I am wrong. America will never accept Armenia as a geopolitical ally and if they do it will be on their terms, which means it will be under the terms and jurisdiction of their allies, including, Turkey, Israel, and Azerbaijan.

 

Vigil, why you need anybody to help you? Are you handicaped or what?

 

Listen, Gamavor, I will take the above comment with a grain of salt, however, be warned, tone it down a bit because I am not insulting you and or you're friends. In fact you have supported me in the past and I respect you. In fact I respect everyone on these forums, but because I am not quickly influenced by "propaganda" and or the "media", you look at me with a negative co-notation

 

No, I do not need anyone’s help and I am only referring to geopolitical relations and yes, Armenia needs geopolitical allies because at this point if it was not for the fact that the EU, Iran, and Russia see Armenia as a counter weight to American, Turkish, and Israeli influence in the region, Armenia, would have become Turkey's "vets". The only force stopping Armenia from being silenced on the world stage is the fact that Russia still views Armenia as that last offensive front against American and Turkish influence in that region.

 

However, once Armenia does settle its international inquiries with Turkey and Azerbaijan, it should push for a neutral foreign policy like Switzerland. Neutrality is the key to success on the world stage.

 

Seaphan and the rest, this will be my last post on this thread. I just hope that Armenians are not stupid enough to further isolate Armenia from the rest of the world because by declarings it's own war against Islam they will further the rift between the rest of the world and the last time I checked the "rest of the world" does not only include America.

Edited August 3, 2004 by Vigil

[Stormig]

Armenians should kiss.

[Armat]

Actually, I would be more happy to see a normal platoon sent there to conduct police activities.

One dead Armenian soldier is way too many specially that the Iraqi invasion had neither legitimacy nor logical reasons. Why should any Armenian be killed for the mistakes of Bush administration.

I suppose you wont say that so casually if you had a son in the Armenian army!!

[Armen]

One dead Armenian soldier is way too many specially that the Iraqi invasion had neither legitimacy nor logical reasons. Why should any Armenian be killed for the mistakes of Bush administration.

I suppose you wont say that so casually if you had a son in the Armenian army!!

I advocated sending a platoon. I would add, that what I meant was a platoon of special forces. First they would aqcuire precious experience. In present world a nation's army must have various kind of experiences and field experience in different parts of world are very important. An officer of a modern army must have these skills. God knows where and what they might need to do. Think big.

 

Second, a soldier can be killed.

 

If I had a son in that kind of platoon, yes I would agree.

[ED]

Armen, your hypothetical assumption is made just for the sake of making an argument to say the list, even so if I were to agree with you sending “special forces” to Iraq, come and think of it Armenia has no shortage of using such a forces within her own immediate interests.

[Armat]

I advocated sending a platoon. I would add, that what I meant was a platoon of special forces. First they would aqcuire precious experience. In present world a nation's army must have various kind of experiences and field experience in different parts of world are very important. An officer of a modern army must have these skills. God knows where and what they might need to do. Think big.

 

Second, a soldier can be killed.

 

If I had a son in that kind of platoon, yes I would agree.

It's a good thingyou don't have a son and judging from your comment you got no clue about preciousness of life. I have two sons and the reasons of sending them to harms way better be crucial, paramount importance rather some vague exercise in training furthermore people including soldiers are not disposable like faceless entities, their lives do matter.

Before one commits troops to any conflict area the underlining philosophy must be legitimate and worthy, just because US is involved that by itself means nothing. It is worthy to note that most EU nations are not sending any troops to Iraq. You probably know why the reasons.

[Armen]

Eduard,

How do you know what are my judgements based on? Do you actually know me? Armenia shall avoid another conflict and use more diplomacy. The commitment of that platoon would be more diplomacy than anything else. A failure to deterr the conflict by isolating itself would bring more harm.

 

Armat,

I dont' want to go into the morals. Yes, I don't have a clue about the preciousness of life. You have not been in Armenia for a decade I suppose. And I would say you don't have a clue about Armenia's geopolitical standing.

[Vigil]

At least we all agree that Bush is a moron! Edited August 3, 2004 by Vigil

[Armat]

Armat,

I dont' want to go into the morals. Yes, I don't have a clue about the preciousness of life. You have not been in Armenia for a decade I suppose. And I would say you don't have a clue about Armenia's geopolitical standing.

I would not claim to know Armenia’s geopolitical position thoroughly however I am well versed in its policies, which are readably available on the net.

You however fail to prove your argument other then some dubious diplomatic victory.

[Armen]

- I would not claim to know Armenia’s geopolitical position thoroughly however I am well versed in its policies, which are readably available on the net.

 

- You however fail to prove your argument other then some dubious diplomatic victory.

- The U.S. political and military positions in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus have improved. It has secured Eastern European support for its actions in Iraq. All the new members of NATO including Poland, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Romania, Hungary and even Ukraine and Kazakhstan (non NATO members) have troops or other military related personnel in Iraq. In our region, Azerbaijan has sent a regiment and Georgia is on the way of doing so. I believe the Georgian participation is hampered by the Osetian events.

Azerbaijan's participation to U.S. led operations in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq has helped the anti-Armenian lobby in Washington to limit our lobbing actions.

The removal of 907 ammendment was one of these diplomatic blows.

The Georgian velvet revolution was another shift in this direction.

The Russian standing in the region is still firm. However, Russia's inability to effectively pressure Georgia into cooperation, particulary on the issue of Russian bases in Georgia, makes the Armenian government to strengthen cooperation with the NATO countries.

 

- Azerbaijan has sent some 30 men to Iraq. This regiment is in no way a military contribution to U.S. efforts in Iraq. However, Azerbijan's name on the list of coalition countries is what the U.S. needs more than anything. Until now they have been peacefully patrolling some building as far as I know. The U.S. officials which visit Azerbaijan constantly mention this fact in their speeches.

When Armenia declared its willingness first to send troops to a Bosnia peacekeeping mission and then agreed to sent the truck regiment to Iraq, the U.S. officials started mentioning that our military relations have improved. I believe Armenias willingness to send this regiment to Iraq was the factor the balanced the U.S. military aid allocation to Armenia and Azerbaijan. There were clear signs that Azerbaijan's portion was going to be bigger.

For the Iraqi insurgents the type Armenia's contribution is irrelevent because they are targeting the coalition countries' willingness to publicly help the U.S. and manifest their help. This is why sending a platoon would be more advantageous. It would appreciate our contribution for the Americans. The reason of our failure to do so is the governments inability to persuade Russia, like the Ukraine did.

[Vigil]

Armen, I do not agree with you. You are sentencing Armenians to death by "implying" that America "cares". The only thing America and the UK care about is how to get the most oil out of Azerbaijan and compared with our "NATO" neighbors we are fairing much better.

 

Yes, let us take a look at our neighbors. Georgia, has not benefited by joining NATO and or drifting away from Russia. Last time I checked they are still in need of electricity, while, Azerbaijan, has not seen any of the "oil revenues" that were being promised by British Petroleum.

 

When Armenia declared its willingness first to send troops to a Bosnia peacekeeping mission and then agreed to send the truck regiment to Iraq, the U.S. officials started mentioning that our military relations have improved.

 

(Laugh) "Relations have improved"? You got to be joking, America, only wants to use Armenia to isolate Russia. Listen, the day America accepts the AG is the day I will consider furthering our relations with America.

 

Listen, Armen, I will use Iran as a example. When the "Shah" was in power you had Nixon and Carter visiting Iran like every weekend, but right when they ousted him the same American government that benefited from the oil exports from Iran was the same one that denied him political asylum. Do you know why they denied him "political asylum"? Because Khomeini threatened to place a oil embargo on any nation that granted him asylum. The only country that was brave enough to give him asylum was Egypt and only because he needed to get treatment for his tumor.

 

Lets go further back in time. When the "Shah" was ousted the first time, the CIA forcefully implemented a coupdeta in order to bring him back into power. Is this what you call "democracy"?

 

Just look at Iraq. In the seventies and eighties, Iraq, was one of America's most trusted allies in the Middle East. In fact there are pictures of Bush Senior shaking hands with Saddom, but what has happened to Iraq today?

 

These same scenarios have occurred through out much of the 20th century. You know most of the "scrap metal" that the Japanese used during WW2 was sold to them by America? No, I am sure you did not know that and furthermore, I am sure you would not believe me if I stated that much of the reason Japan became a nationalistic military power was because of America. Much of their arms that was sold to Japan during the early 20th century came from America.

 

When America was selling arms to Japan to use against the Russians during the Russo-Japanese war where these ideals of “democracy” then?

 

Listen, Armen, I myself am as patriotic and supportive of the ideals of democracy, even though, at times it may seem like Democracy is a failure, but in no way do I support America's foreign policy. America is a beautiful country. The people are very sincere in their efforts to promote democracy abroad is admirable, but the "democracy" they promise is only as good as the efforts made by their government to provide it.

 

Historically the chances of Armenia being betrayed by the Russians compared with America is far less. Historically, the United States, has betrayed almost all the "allies". Let me ask you, Armen, besides Turkey, Israel, and the United Kingdom, what countries have benefited from her actions?

 

Like I stated earlier if Armenians are as stupid to depend on "western" powers again, then, Armenia will become the "vets" of America and her allies, namely, Turkey.

 

America wants Turkey to somewhat "govern" the Caucasus as opposed of it being under Russian influence. In a way America is implementing her Imperialistic foreign policy through Turkey.

 

Now, the Georgians and Azeri's, my find living under Turkey "ok", but we all know that Turkey will have a very bias "stance" towards Armenia and even more so towards Artsahk.

 

Basically, outside of transferring oil and or using Armenia for military purposes I see no reason why we should betray our long time standing ally, Russia, for a country that in the past has sided with our Enemy. Armen, I fail to see you're logic?

 

So, far, we have faired much better then our neighbors that have "sold us out" to Turkey, Israel, and the United States.

 

Should Armenia try to better their relations with the US? Yes, BUT SHOULD ARMENIA DO IT AT THE EXPENSE OF SOURING OUR RELATIONS WITH RUSSIA? NO

 

In short, America will always support Turkey because "Turkey" is the weaker country. If Turkey was as large as Russia and or had the geopolitical influence of Russia, America, would support Russia. This is the first and foremost rule of politics. You always support the weaker contender against the stronger. This is mainly the logic behind supporting Israel, in that, by supporting Israel they are indirectly "fending off" the Arab oil monopoly. Armen, think about it like this, why would a small country like Israel need 150 nukes? Why would a nation like Turkey need so much "military" assistance from America?

 

However, ultimately, the United State's foreign policy will bite it in her ass due to the fact that Israel is selling secrets and arms to our rivals like China. Turkey on the other hand is using the America generosity to "get into the EU", but once Turkey gets in, you can say good bye to her America relations because at the very end the EU is economic rivals. Turkey, will, either, sell out America and or the EU. Furthermoe, the main EU member state that needs to be please is France and at the moment "France" and "America" are on bad terms.

 

However, by sticking with Russia I am pretty sure Armenia has a better chance of entering the EU if that is what she desires because of the fact that Russian and French relations are much better then American and Frence relations.

 

Sorry, Armen, I do not agree with you.

Edited August 4, 2004 by Vigil

[Armen]

Sorry, Armen, I do not agree with you. 

 

No need to be sorry Vigil. I constantly disagree with most of the stuff you post. I just don't like when Hyeforumers gang up on someone. That was the reason of my yesterday's support.

Why are you typing "Listen Armen" or "Armen" for some 7-8 times? I think one mention is enough.

 

To the rest of your points I would reply that Armenia's limited cooperation with the U.S. is not hurting our ties with Russia. Our alliance with Russia now is iron tight as far as Armenia is concerned. We have cooperated with Russia in EVERYTHING they wanted over past 5-6 years, especially after Putin came to power. This is not good for our regional positioning.

Edited August 4, 2004 by ArmenSarg

[DominO123]

I just don't like when Hyeforumers gang up on someone.

You should not mistake, "ganging up against certain views" with "ganging up on someone."

[Armen]

You should not mistake, "ganging up against certain views" with "ganging up on someone."

That was your way of saying: " I told you so"?

 

OK then, I don't like when people gang up...

[Vigil]

No need to be sorry Vigil. I constantly disagree with most of the stuff you post. I just don't like when Hyeforumers gang up on someone. That was the reason of my yesterday's support.

 

Armen, I support everyone’s opinions on this thread. We are all friends and or Armenians and care about our country, but I am not upset or mad at you, rather, I am just sick of the "politics" and "bullshit" of some countries.

 

I am sorry if I offended you and I appreciate you supporting me. The way I write is a bit "aggressive" and sometimes I get so involved in the discussion that I lose focus on the matter at hand.

 

 

 

Why are you typing "Listen Armen" or "Armen" for some 7-8 times? I think one mention is enough.

 

Sorry, force of habit.

 

To the rest of your points I would reply that Armenia's limited cooperation with the U.S. is not hurting our ties with Russia.

 

I agree.

 

Our alliance with Russia now is iron tight as far as Armenia is concerned.

 

I agree

 

We have cooperated with Russia in EVERYTHING they wanted over past 5-6 years, especially after Putin came to power. This is not good for our regional positioning.

 

I agree

 

Sorry, I may have misunderstood your perspective on the subject. Yes, you are right we need to remain as neutral as we can, but the only alternative to Russia is Turkey, which is why I am supporter of pro-Russian relations.

 

This thread, so far, has been a progressive thread and I respect everyone’s view and or opinions.

 

I just do not want Armenians and or Armenia to be used by anyone. God knows, in the past our plights have been used to benefit other nations. We need to start thinking about ourselves and try to distance ourselves from any regional conflict because of the fact that no one really has "paid attention" to our needs unless they have benefit from it. This is what Armenians fail to realize in that everybody is out on their own in this world, even though, you may try to push for "world peace" at the very we will always confront one another for resources.

 

The entire fiasco of the Armenian Church incident should not be used as a justification for Armenians to wage war against "terror" because of the fact that the only countries that face this are the ones that ally themselves with Zionists interests. However, the way world events are leading and the media manipulation by the "elite media" is slowly turning this war into another Crusade.

 

If indeed this is another Crusade like they are making it seem like it is. The first thing that should be done is taking back Constantinople, instead, of forfeiting this jewel of Christianity.

 

Anyways, I just hope Armenians do not get involved in this conflict. We do not need to confront Arabs when we are already facing Turks. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if something more sinister was behind these bombings.

 

This will be my last post on this subject.

Edited August 4, 2004 by Vigil

[Vigil]

You should not mistake, "ganging up against certain views" with "ganging up on someone."

 

Domino, quit putting fuel on the fire.

 

I was not trying to insult Armen and my views are not wrong because if they were you would see America accepting the genocide instead of it continually denying it.

 

If you disagree with me and yourself why you don’t vote for Bush?

 

Furthermore, I do not care if you "gang up against certain views" because I am not here to earn the admiration of a few members and or become a socialite.

 

You are a typical intellectual, so, in part I do not blame you're somewhat "liberal" attitude towards the world.

 

However, "intellectuals" are not the ones that are running the world; but rather, men of action are. At best the greatest achievement an “intellectual” will ever achieve is earning the admiration of fellow “intellectuals”.

Edited August 4, 2004 by Vigil

[DominO123]

I have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

Furthermore, I'm even not American.

[Vigil]

I have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

Furthermore, I'm even not American.

 

Just don't camp my posts like Stormig, thanks in advance.

[Nakharar]

Armen, I do not agree with you. You are sentencing Armenians to death by "implying" that America "cares". The only thing America and the UK care about is how to get the most oil out of Azerbaijan and compared with our "NATO" neighbors we are fairing much better.

 

Yes, let us take a look at our neighbors. Georgia, has not benefited by joining NATO and or drifting away from Russia. Last time I checked they are still in need of electricity, while, Azerbaijan, has not seen any of the "oil revenues" that were being promised by British Petroleum.

 

 

QUOTE 

When Armenia declared its willingness first to send troops to a Bosnia peacekeeping mission and then agreed to send the truck regiment to Iraq, the U.S. officials started mentioning that our military relations have improved. 

 

 

 

(Laugh) "Relations have improved"? You got to be joking, America, only wants to use Armenia to isolate Russia. Listen, the day America accepts the AG is the day I will consider furthering our relations with America.

 

Listen, Armen, I will use Iran as a example. When the "Shah" was in power you had Nixon and Carter visiting Iran like every weekend, but right when they ousted him the same American government that benefited from the oil exports from Iran was the same one that denied him political asylum. Do you know why they denied him "political asylum"? Because Khomeini threatened to place a oil embargo on any nation that granted him asylum. The only country that was brave enough to give him asylum was Egypt and only because he needed to get treatment for his tumor.

 

Lets go further back in time. When the "Shah" was ousted the first time, the CIA forcefully implemented a coupdeta in order to bring him back into power. Is this what you call "democracy"?

 

Just look at Iraq. In the seventies and eighties, Iraq, was one of America's most trusted allies in the Middle East. In fact there are pictures of Bush Senior shaking hands with Saddom, but what has happened to Iraq today?

 

These same scenarios have occurred through out much of the 20th century. You know most of the "scrap metal" that the Japanese used during WW2 was sold to them by America? No, I am sure you did not know that and furthermore, I am sure you would not believe me if I stated that much of the reason Japan became a nationalistic military power was because of America. Much of their arms that was sold to Japan during the early 20th century came from America.

 

When America was selling arms to Japan to use against the Russians during the Russo-Japanese war where these ideals of “democracy” then?

 

Listen, Armen, I myself am as patriotic and supportive of the ideals of democracy, even though, at times it may seem like Democracy is a failure, but in no way do I support America's foreign policy. America is a beautiful country. The people are very sincere in their efforts to promote democracy abroad is admirable, but the "democracy" they promise is only as good as the efforts made by their government to provide it.

 

Historically the chances of Armenia being betrayed by the Russians compared with America is far less. Historically, the United States, has betrayed almost all the "allies". Let me ask you, Armen, besides Turkey, Israel, and the United Kingdom, what countries have benefited from her actions?

 

Like I stated earlier if Armenians are as stupid to depend on "western" powers again, then, Armenia will become the "vets" of America and her allies, namely, Turkey.

 

America wants Turkey to somewhat "govern" the Caucasus as opposed of it being under Russian influence. In a way America is implementing her Imperialistic foreign policy through Turkey.

 

Now, the Georgians and Azeri's, my find living under Turkey "ok", but we all know that Turkey will have a very bias "stance" towards Armenia and even more so towards Artsahk.

 

Basically, outside of transferring oil and or using Armenia for military purposes I see no reason why we should betray our long time standing ally, Russia, for a country that in the past has sided with our Enemy. Armen, I fail to see you're logic?

 

So, far, we have faired much better then our neighbors that have "sold us out" to Turkey, Israel, and the United States.

 

Should Armenia try to better their relations with the US? Yes, BUT SHOULD ARMENIA DO IT AT THE EXPENSE OF SOURING OUR RELATIONS WITH RUSSIA? NO

 

In short, America will always support Turkey because "Turkey" is the weaker country. If Turkey was as large as Russia and or had the geopolitical influence of Russia, America, would support Russia. This is the first and foremost rule of politics. You always support the weaker contender against the stronger. This is mainly the logic behind supporting Israel, in that, by supporting Israel they are indirectly "fending off" the Arab oil monopoly. Armen, think about it like this, why would a small country like Israel need 150 nukes? Why would a nation like Turkey need so much "military" assistance from America?

 

However, ultimately, the United State's foreign policy will bite it in her ass due to the fact that Israel is selling secrets and arms to our rivals like China. Turkey on the other hand is using the America generosity to "get into the EU", but once Turkey gets in, you can say good bye to her America relations because at the very end the EU is economic rivals. Turkey, will, either, sell out America and or the EU. Furthermoe, the main EU member state that needs to be please is France and at the moment "France" and "America" are on bad terms.

 

However, by sticking with Russia I am pretty sure Armenia has a better chance of entering the EU if that is what she desires because of the fact that Russian and French relations are much better then American and Frence relations.

 

Excellent post Vigil. I couldn't agree more.