Armenians.com Cookbook

[Arpa]

I'm glad you at least know good Armenian, follow what AJARIAN (ACARIAN) has written and your Armenian will be even better than AJARIANS. Western Armenian with full of mistakes. Learn proper Armenian, and when you have done it I’ll be more than glad to learn from you as far as I am sure you don't teach the wrong western Armenian.

 

P.S. Re read what you have sent me and you might learn something new, ըստ ՆՀԲ ո հլ. թէեւ առանց վկայութեան

When Ajarian says առանց վկայութեան he means he has not seen the word in the writings of Khorenatsi or Mashtots. And then he brings Pahlavi records, that even the Persians may have forgotten to corroborate his points.

SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

As to me knowing WA, I may have said this a million times. I was born and brought up in that so called WA.

Another SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!! is that I also know turdish, sometimes more than your average turd, since I also know, among a few other languages, Arabic from which 80% of turdish is derived. Like when they call their parliament "mejlis" little do they know that it comes from the Arabic "jels" to sit, aysiqn "nstaran, nstakyats zhoghov". "mejlisneroum saz chi paksi" Sayat Nova.

Never mind that WA/Turkahayeren EA/Russahayeren, you may have already seen that I am kind of fluent in both, just learn ARMENIAN.

Edited August 10, 2007 by Arpa

[ALMA]

When Ajarian says առանց վկայութեան he means he has not seen the word in the writings of Khorenatsi or Mashtots. And then he brings Pahlavi records, that even the Persians may have forgotten to corroborate his points.

SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

As to me knowing WA, I may have said this a million times. I was born and brought up in that so called WA.

Another SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!! is that I also know turdish, sometimes more than your average turd, since I also know, among a few other languages, Arabic from which 80% of turdish is derived. Like when they call their parliament "mejlis" little do they know that it comes from the Arabic "jels" to sit, aysiqn "nstaran, nstakyats zhoghov". "mejlisneroum saz chi paksi" Sayat Nova.

Never mind that WA/Turkahayeren EA/Russahayeren, you may have already seen that I am kind of fluent in both, just learn ARMENIAN.

 

Yeah I do see you are fluent and just as much as you speak turkish or Arabic I can speak them both. But from the core of my heart congrats you Armenian is simply perfect.

[Arpa]

===

And finally as far as I am concerned coffee doesn't grow in Armenia and only 60 years ago in Armenia many people didn't know what coffee was and when coffee beans were brought from Iran to Armenia Armenians from Armenia thought it was beans and so they cooked to eat.

When did you say coffee was brought to Armenia? 60 years ago?

Then how do you explain the word "sourj"? Look again and note the date 1787. 320 years ago? How many "60 years" is that? 5? 6?

ՍՈՒՐՃDialect section present: no

«խահուէ, կոֆէ»

սուրճ. նոր ժամանակի բառ, որից սրճարան, սրճագործ, սրճեփ, սրճարանապետ, սրճաման, սրճաղաց, սրճամոլ եւն: Սուրճը Ժե դարում Եթովպիայից սկսեց տարածուել ամբողջ Արեւելքում, որից անցաւ Եւրոպա: Բառիս հնագոյն գործածութիւնը 1787. թուից ունի Ջուղ. 203.՝ երկու անգամ. «Տան նմա սուրճ, այսինքն ղահֆա առ ի ըմպել. եւ երբ աւարտեաց զարբումն սրճոյն. այսիքն, ղաֆային...» եւ 1788 թուից (Կ. Սաֆարեան. Բանալի գիտութ. 110.):

In the least we have an Armenian word for it,. What did you say the turdish word is? Khahve/gahwa, kofeh/coffee? Yeah! all very turdish words brought from the steppes of Central Asia.

SEMANTICS, SEMANTICS.

Do you know what that means?

It means that we are talking about language and words.

Semantically speaking. How does the simple fact that “basturma” is turdish WORD make that delicacy turdish? The Armenian word for it is “APUKHT, APUKHT” .

Why do you take me for an

AP-USH/ԱՊ-ՈՒՇ ?

Yes, I do know turdish. But I will never know that language as much as Ajarian, who was born, raised and educated in that nest of that language, Istanbul, and that his first language was, even before he learned a word of Armenian. Look what he says above. That “basturma/բաստրմա is տաճկերէն. It does not take a genius to know that “bas” is turdish to mean to “step,/to press” ճմլել, ճզմել, կոխել, խտացնել. What do you think “basmaji-ian” means? Doe it not mean “presser/printer”( of floral patterns onto fabric)? And, who were the prennial pressers of floral patterns onto fabric, the dyers (boyaji) and julhaks(joulfa) , master weavers, textile masters were? Why do we have such surnames as “meshefeji-ian” and Arabic word to mean “dryer” who invented what is now is known as “turdish towel/terry cloth”. If they were in Armenia they would be known as “khav-cordzian“, as in “խավ/khav/layer”

Edited August 10, 2007 by Arpa

[ALMA]

When did you say coffee was brought to Armenia? 60 years ago?

Then how do you explain the word "sourj"? Look again and note the date 1787. 320 years ago? How many "60 years" is that? 5? 6?

ՍՈՒՐՃDialect section present: no

«խահուէ, կոֆէ»

սուրճ. նոր ժամանակի բառ, որից սրճարան, սրճագործ, սրճեփ, սրճարանապետ, սրճաման, սրճաղաց, սրճամոլ եւն: Սուրճը Ժե դարում Եթովպիայից սկսեց տարածուել ամբողջ Արեւելքում, որից անցաւ Եւրոպա: Բառիս հնագոյն գործածութիւնը 1787. թուից ունի Ջուղ. 203.՝ երկու անգամ. «Տան նմա սուրճ, այսինքն ղահֆա առ ի ըմպել. եւ երբ աւարտեաց զարբումն սրճոյն. այսիքն, ղաֆային...» եւ 1788 թուից (Կ. Սաֆարեան. Բանալի գիտութ. 110.):

In the least we have an Armenian word for it,. What did you say the turdish word is? Khahve/gahwa, kofeh/coffee? Yeah! all very turdish words brought from the steppes of Central Asia.

SEMANTICS, SEMANTICS.

Do you know what that means?

It means that we are talking about language and words.

Semantically speaking. How does the simple fact that “basturma” is turdish WORD make that delicacy turdish? The Armenian word for it is “APUKHT, APUKHT” .

Why do you take me for an

AP-USH/ԱՊ-ՈՒՇ ?

Yes, I do know turdish. But I will never know that language as much as Ajarian, who was born, raised and educated in that nest of that language, Istanbul, and that his first language was, even before he learned a word of Armenian. Look what he says above. That “basturma/բաստրմա is տաճկերէն. It does not take a genius to know that “bas” is turdish to mean to “step,/to press” ճմլել, ճզմել, կոխել, խտացնել. What do you think “basmaji-ian” means? Doe it not mean “presser/printer”( of floral patterns onto fabric)? And, who were the prennial pressers of floral patterns onto fabric, the dyers (boyaji) and julhaks(joulfa) , master weavers, textile masters were? Why do we have such surnames as “meshefeji-ian” and Arabic word to mean “dryer” who invented what is now is known as “turdish towel/terry cloth”. If they were in Armenia they would be known as “khav-cordzian“, as in “խավ/khav/layer”

 

 

The fact that we had a word for coffee surj does not yet mean we had to have coffee in Armenia. Before IT arrived to Armenia we already had names for it, it makes no sense, don't you think?

Semantics? ja ja ja you made my day, from a communication point of view i'd say it's the study of meanings. Basil Bernstein, do you know who he is??

Let me add something else, the Turkish you western Armenians think you speak is not even perfectly understood by turks.

Well girl I have nothing to add, keep believing that apukht is the name of basturma, it does not harm anyone. If you ever find a Hayastantsi born Linguist do come back and we’ll carry on this discussion. Meanwhile enjoy the Western Armenian of Acarian.

 

P.S. I don't take anyone for an apush now if you feel like it, there isn't much I can do about it, is there?

Edited August 11, 2007 by ALMA

[Johannes]

Hello Alma (Khndzor ?)

Coffee was not in Armenia but armenians were every where. Mkhitarist fathers in Venezia used to drink that black liquid and gave an armenian name to it. All this happened before the establishment of many nations which exists now.

[Arpa]

Hello Alma (Khndzor ?)

Coffee was not in Armenia but armenians were every where. Mkhitarist fathers in Venezia used to drink that black liquid and gave an armenian name to it. All this happened before the establishment of many nations which exists now.

Խնձոր չէ, այլ դդում!

In their rotten apple language it is not "alma", it is "elma" like in Elmajian, a highly respectfed dynasty somehow related to me. (search and see more Elmajians. Apple growers? Can we label the Anjartsis such?? Khndzorapan??).

In fact my maternal grandmother was Elmajian from this dynasty of Eflaton (plato) Elmajian.

http://books.google.com/books?id=M6uf1NoTs...AsZZGp8JtiK1H6o

Is this person a memeber of the furkish propaganda machine tooIt took us over a thousand year to gain back our independence, must it take another thousand years to get back our cultural and linguistice independencE.

We are so accustomed to call "father" those who who RAPE our mothers. Does anyone know what the "Patty Hearst Syndrome " is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_Hearst

Or the Stockholm Syndrome;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

And, yes, there is another imbecile who lives in Stockholm and periodically tries to sneak in here to spread his smelly stuff.

Is is, in short, inviting the rapist to a Roman orgy.

ALMA also means "don't take". We will comply and "don't take" her/his/its garbage. It is unfortunate that they use such nicknmaes which is the acronym of

http://www.armenianheritage.com/almindex.htm

Armenian Library and Museum of America, who do an excellent job promoting our culture instead of trashing it.

Edited August 11, 2007 by Arpa

[Arpa]

Hello Alma (Khndzor ?)

Coffee was not in Armenia but armenians were every where. Mkhitarist fathers in Venezia used to drink that black liquid and gave an armenian name to it. All this happened before the establishment of many nations which exists now.

What an IDIOT!

WHO IS THIS CLOWN, aka ALMA?!

You come in here with an avatar with ՀԱՅԱԱՍՏԱՆ emblazoned all over that Sacred ERAGUYN yet you claim that “bsturma/ anasina bastuzrma” ”apukht” is f**kish”.

You should thank your allah a million times that I am not ataturk, otherwise you would be swinging from the nearest telephone pole.

We have seen the likes of you, wolves in sheep’s cloth who come here with catchy nicknames, and who eventually take their pants down for us to see that they are “circumcised turks”.

Come back when you learn real Armenian, not that “ermenice 101” taught at Istanbul /Ankara U. Who may have finally learned that their agents should know as much ermenice as many of us know turkce?

Edited August 11, 2007 by Arpa

[ALMA]

Խնձոր չէ, այլ դդում!

In their rotten apple language it is not "alma", it is "elma" like in Elmajian, a highly respectfed dynasty somehow related to me. (search and see more Elmajians. Apple growers? Can we label the Anjartsis such?? Khndzorapan??).

In fact my maternal grandmother was Elmajian from this dynasty of Eflaton (plato) Elmajian.

http://books.google.com/books?id=M6uf1NoTs...AsZZGp8JtiK1H6o

Is this person a memeber of the furkish propaganda machine tooIt took us over a thousand year to gain back our independence, must it take another thousand years to get back our cultural and linguistice independencE.

We are so accustomed to call "father" those who who RAPE our mothers. Does anyone know what the "Patty Hearst Syndrome " is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_Hearst

Or the Stockholm Syndrome;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

And, yes, there is another imbecile who lives in Stockholm and periodically tries to sneak in here to spread his smelly stuff.

Is is, in short, inviting the rapist to a Roman orgy.

ALMA also means "don't take". We will comply and "don't take" her/his/its garbage. It is unfortunate that they use such nicknmaes which is the acronym of

http://www.armenianheritage.com/almindex.htm

Armenian Library and Museum of America, who do an excellent job promoting our culture instead of trashing it.

 

 

listen you error of sexual intercourse why don't you piss off??? elme ?? isiot alma means hoki in spanish what the *** do you knwo and what are you talking about?

[ALMA]

What an IDIOT!

WHO IS THIS CLOWN, aka ALMA?!

You come in here with an avatar with ՀԱՅԱԱՍՏԱՆ emblazoned all over that Sacred ERAGUYN yet you claim that “bsturma/ anasina bastuzrma” ”apukht” is f**kish”.

You should thank your allah a million times that I am not ataturk, otherwise you would be swinging from the nearest telephone pole.

We have seen the likes of you, wolves in sheep’s cloth who come here with catchy nicknames, and who eventually take their pants down for us to see that they are “circumcised turks”.

Come back when you learn real Armenian, not that “ermenice 101” taught at Istanbul /Ankara U. Who may have finally learned that their agents should know as much ermenice as many of us know turkce?

 

 

girl boy rather as you have no manners at all. you arabo idiot go and pray

[ALMA]

Hello Alma (Khndzor ?)

Coffee was not in Armenia but armenians were every where. Mkhitarist fathers in Venezia used to drink that black liquid and gave an armenian name to it. All this happened before the establishment of many nations which exists now.

 

 

No, Alma in Spanish not turkish. Yeah good explanation, it does not mean there was coffee in Armenia and that Armenia introduced the coffee to Europe, we are talking about coffee not apricot.

[Takoush]

Above you answered your own question when you said making manti is “dzeracorts”, handiwork. Believe it or not “manti” is Italian. It is the armenized form of “manicotti” which simply means mani=hand and cotti from cottere=work/knit, another meaning may be from the Italian “cotto=cook”. Therefor manti abbreviated manicotti, handiwork/dzeracorts. Compare the preparation and the look of manti to manicotti.

 

 

My only wish is that we totally stop calling those very Armenian dishes by their foreign names, yet by the same token not throw the baby away with the bathwater or soup water for that. Ascribe everything to turdish.

Thank you Arpa for your explanations. Mante is like"ձեռագործ".

 

Ok then what do we call Mante? ձեռագործով խմորեղէն :

 

A little long; but if you can come up with a better word, just let me know!

 

[Arpa]

Thank you Arpa for your explanations. Mante is like"ձեռագործ".

 

Ok then what do we call Mante? ձեռագործով խմորեղէն :

 

A little long; but if you can come up with a better word, just let me know!

Please Anahid et al.

Let us first concern ourselves about liberating our native culture that has been abducted for ove a thousand years.

The above about “manti/manicotti” being Italian is solely and exclusively my observation. Yet I challenge anyone to prove it otherwise.

Why do we feel the urge to translate every foreign word into Armenian and create ten mile long words and phrases? Why do we feel to translate such as համբուկեր, հոտ տոկ, պիցցա and հելիքոպտեր, those are their inventions, let them be, while we still call our inventions, own cuisine with words like քոքմա, քաքմա, քաքմաճուն and քաքստըրմա.

No wonder the Lebanese call us “beni /children of basturma”! It is sad to see that of late this forum has been infested with all those “beni basturmas” who still insist that qoqma, qaqma and qaqsturma are Armenian WORDS.

Can we, first reclaim our native culture and heritage before we try an translate “manti/macaroni/երկանակլորախմորա ծակ. Yes, we need an Armenian word for manti like another ծակ in the head.

“manti” is as Armenian as “khash” since it was us who saw it first in the Italian cuisine, even before the furks knew how to start a fire. Yet they mastered the art so well that they burned our houses and “khorovats” ed us alive.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Arpa

[Johannes]

Ալմա,

 

Քեզ անարգելու միտում չունէի: Կարծում էի անունդ իսկապէս թուրքերէն «ալմա» է, քանզի ինչպէս գիտէք, մերոնք հեշտութեամբ չեն ազատւում, դարերի ընթացքում ստացած թուրքական կնիքից: Լսել եմ անուններ՝ խաթուն, գիւլէնիա, Էլմաստ եւայլն:

 

Հիմի մտածենք բաստուրմայի մասին: Այն որ basturma բառը թուրքերէն է՝ կասկած չկայ: Սրա մասին մի՛ տարակուսիր: Թուրքերը մեր կողմ եկել են 11-րդ դարում: 11-րդ դարից առաջ հայերը եւ մնացեալ Անատոլիական ժողովուրդները, բաստուրմա չէի՞ն ուտում: Ուտում էին: Եթէ ուտում էին, ի՞նչ անուն տալիս էին այդ ուտելիքին:

 

Քո կարծիքով՝ բաստուրմա: Այս պարագայում պէտք է գնային միջին Ասիա եւ շրջիկ ույղուրներին հարց տային այսպէս.-«Մենք հայերս Հայկական Բարձրավանդակում այ սենց մի ուտելիք ունենք, ի՞նչ անուն տանք»: Թուրքերը հարցնում են հայերին.-«Ինչպէ՞ս էք պատրաստում»: Հայերը պատասխանում են՝ «ճնշելով տափակացնում ենք սեւ միսը, յետոյ կախում են բարձր տեղանքից, որպէսզի կատուներին անհաս լինի»: թուրքերը պատասխանում են.-«Դէ որ էդպէս ա, ասացէք բաստուրմա» Հայերն ուրախութեամբ գալիս են Հայաստան եւ հարակից շրջաններ, աւետաբեր լուրը հաղորդելու համայն ազգին թէ՝ «գտել ենք այս ուտելիքի համար մի անուն, որ է ԲԱՍՏՈՒՐՄԱ»: Էդ դէպքից յետոյ ազգը 40 օր 40 գիշեր խնջոյք է սարքում ի պատիւ այն ազգային հերոսներին, ովք թողել են գործ ու բան, ու գնացել են թուրքեստան իմանալու ապուխտի անունը:

 

Երկինքէն ընկաւ 3 կտոր բաստուրմա: Մինը պատմողին, միւսը լսողին, իսկ երրորդը մուրազ ունեցողին...

[Arpa]

Ալմա,

Մենք արդեն գիտենք որ ALMA նշանակի հոգի բայց նկատիր թէ Ֆրանսացիները ինչ կոչեն այդ բառը AME(s)

Նմսնսպէս գիտենք թէ շատ մը Թուրքիացի Հայեր իրանց Ալմաստ/Almast/Elmast/Diamond/Ադամանդ անունները բաեփոխեն Alma-i kam Emma-i.

40 չէ. Չի մոռանալ Քարսուն բառը

Does anyone know that disguting furkish ditty where one of the verses goes; Oh! Hani benim elli direm basturmam, basturmam. Konyalidan bashkasina BASTER MAM. Do you know what "bastermak" means? AMOT

Does anyone know this song sung by Lusik Koshian?

Քարսուն տարիս լրացաւ

Քարաուն գարուն շուտ անցաւ

Խելքըս քամուն տուեցի

Հորըս տունե մնացի

……

Թաք(furkish) տանէին, տանէին,

Թաք….

Հորուս տունէն հանէին:

Do you know what “qarsun” means, like havitenakan/eternity?

Look here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3294&hl=qarsun

Edited August 13, 2007 by Arpa

[Takoush]

Please Anahid et al.

Let us first concern ourselves about liberating our native culture that has been abducted for ove a thousand years.

The above about “manti/manicotti” being Italian is solely and exclusively my observation. Yet I challenge anyone to prove it otherwise.

Why do we feel the urge to translate every foreign word into Armenian and create ten mile long words and phrases? Why do we feel to translate such as համբուկեր, հոտ տոկ, պիցցա and հելիքոպտեր, those are their inventions, let them be, while we still call our inventions, own cuisine with words like քոքմա, քաքմա, քաքմաճուն and քաքստըրմա.

No wonder the Lebanese call us “beni /children of basturma”! It is sad to see that of late this forum has been infested with all those “beni basturmas” who still insist that qoqma, qaqma and qaqsturma are Armenian WORDS.

Can we, first reclaim our native culture and heritage before we try an translate “manti/macaroni/երկանակլորախմորա ծակ. Yes, we need an Armenian word for manti like another ծակ in the head.

“manti” is as Armenian as “khash” since it was us who saw it first in the Italian cuisine, even before the furks knew how to start a fire. Yet they mastered the art so well that they burned our houses and “khorovats” ed us alive.

 

Arpa, Let me tell you that I was having fun with creating an Armenian name for "manti". Based on your dislikes about not having Armenian names for our own dishes, I was merely communicating with you. That is all.

 

But please, there's no need for tirade or sermon. I was merely communicating with you in a positive manner I thought, I hoped.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[ALMA]

Ալմա,

 

Քեզ անարգելու միտում չունէի: Կարծում էի անունդ իսկապէս թուրքերէն «ալմա» է, քանզի ինչպէս գիտէք, մերոնք հեշտութեամբ չեն ազատւում, դարերի ընթացքում ստացած թուրքական կնիքից: Լսել եմ անուններ՝ խաթուն, գիւլէնիա, Էլմաստ եւայլն:

 

Հիմի մտածենք բաստուրմայի մասին: Այն որ basturma բառը թուրքերէն է՝ կասկած չկայ: Սրա մասին մի՛ տարակուսիր: Թուրքերը մեր կողմ եկել են 11-րդ դարում: 11-րդ դարից առաջ հայերը եւ մնացեալ Անատոլիական ժողովուրդները, բաստուրմա չէի՞ն ուտում: Ուտում էին: Եթէ ուտում էին, ի՞նչ անուն տալիս էին այդ ուտելիքին:

 

Քո կարծիքով՝ բաստուրմա: Այս պարագայում պէտք է գնային միջին Ասիա եւ շրջիկ ույղուրներին հարց տային այսպէս.-«Մենք հայերս Հայկական Բարձրավանդակում այ սենց մի ուտելիք ունենք, ի՞նչ անուն տանք»: Թուրքերը հարցնում են հայերին.-«Ինչպէ՞ս էք պատրաստում»: Հայերը պատասխանում են՝ «ճնշելով տափակացնում ենք սեւ միսը, յետոյ կախում են բարձր տեղանքից, որպէսզի կատուներին անհաս լինի»: թուրքերը պատասխանում են.-«Դէ որ էդպէս ա, ասացէք բաստուրմա» Հայերն ուրախութեամբ գալիս են Հայաստան եւ հարակից շրջաններ, աւետաբեր լուրը հաղորդելու համայն ազգին թէ՝ «գտել ենք այս ուտելիքի համար մի անուն, որ է ԲԱՍՏՈՒՐՄԱ»: Էդ դէպքից յետոյ ազգը 40 օր 40 գիշեր խնջոյք է սարքում ի պատիւ այն ազգային հերոսներին, ովք թողել են գործ ու բան, ու գնացել են թուրքեստան իմանալու ապուխտի անունը:

 

Երկինքէն ընկաւ 3 կտոր բաստուրմա: Մինը պատմողին, միւսը լսողին, իսկ երրորդը մուրազ ունեցողին...

 

Thanx for the tale hope 1 out of 3 basturmas will be for me, now what was basturma called before the turks invented the name?

Anhargvats chem zgum, sxal haskatsumner bolori mot el linume, unlike you some jump to conclusions very quickly showing the rest the degree of their insaneness.

I do acknowledge that the word is turkish as bastirma et in turkish means pressed meat, but apkhtats mis is not the Armenian name for Basturma. It may be in Western Armenian but surely not in Eastern Armenian as Apkhtats mis could well be basturma or any other uncooked meat.

 

Edited August 14, 2007 by ALMA

[Johannes]

Կարծում եմ, աշխարհի առաջին բաստուրմաջիները աղուեսներն են եղել, երբ ուզեցել են պահել աւելացած որսի միսը. թաքցնելով ընդերքում: Հողի ընդերքում գտնւող caraway seeds/քիմոն/չամանի (http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Caru_car.html) սերմերը, օգնել են միսի անապակ պահպանմանը:

 

Ասում ենք թրքերէն, թուրքական: Եթէ խօսքը բաստուրմայի անուան մասին է, պէտք է նկատի առնել եւս մեր ազգի այլասիրութիւնը, քաղաքական եւ պատմական պարագաները: Երբեմնի թուրքախօս հայերը մասնակցել են, այսպէս կոչուած՝ թուրքական մշակոյթի, արուեստի, բանահիւսութեան կերտմանը: Սա թուրքերի ինքնախոստովանութիւնն է:

 

Այլ խօսքով՝ կարելի ենթադրել որ բաստուրման, որպէս անուն, ապխտագործ հայերի կողմից ստեղծուած լինի: Թրքացած հայեր թրքախօս հայեր դարեր շարունակ ապրել ստեղծագործել եւ հետք են թողել:

 

Իմ միտքը նախորդ նամակում սա էր. Մեծ հաւանականութեամբ հայերը պատրաստում եւ ուտում էին բաստուրմա, սակայն այլ անուն տալիս էին այդ ուտելիքին: Իսկ երբ թուրքերն եկան, այդ ապուխտի անունը թրքացրինք եւ դարձրինք բաստուրմա, այնպէս ինչպէս զուտ հայաբնակ գիւղերի, ձորերի, անտառների, լեռների, դաշտերի, գետերի եւ արհեստների անունները թրքացրինք. Կամայ-ակամայ, գիտութեամբ եւ անգիտութեամբ:

 

 

[Arpa]

Arpa, Let me tell you that I was having fun with creating an Armenian name for "manti". Based on your dislikes about not having Armenian names for our own dishes, I was merely communicating with you. That is all.

But please, there's no need for tirade or sermon. I was merely communicating with you in a positive manner I thought, I hoped.

Please Anahid, don’t be so vulnerably sensitive.

Please be more circumspect. Read the entire post.

Yes, we all enjoy such parlor games as to "what is the ' Armenian word for Bamia' ""? Surprise, surprise! It is "bamia". Or how to translate "Swedish meatballs"? Like "shvetakan msa-gndak". Our aim is not inventing new words for "swedish meatballs" or Neapiltan Pizza. Our aim is to recover what we called those Armenian Delicacies, the likes of "lits" and "terev-patouk" before those barbarians set foot on our lands.

Yes. I did use your name to make a point, you will also notice that I added “et al”.

Yes, we do know that your mother would have your mouth washed out with soap and water, or better yet, have your mouth filled with piper for using furkish words to describe Armenian delicacies.

The irony is not “cucchinal/cuisinal” but also linguistic when any of our correspondents don’t even know that the furkish “qoqma” is not the same as “qaqma”. Where as the former refers to “to fill/letsnel” as in to fill a vegetable like eggplant, zucchini/pepper, tomato, tomato etc. , the latter means to “wrap” as in “to wrap in grape leaves“.

When all those so called “cucchinal/cuisinal/khohanotsayin**” experts not only learn real cuisine-art, and proper language, be it Armenian, Persian or furkish, that “dolma” is to fill (stuff avegetable) and “sarma” is to wrap (to wrap in leaf/terev), then, may be we can speak in a more intelligent manner.

Do you remember DeLala’s cartoon “Dolma Gouzes?” where I did not see any “dola”, they were all “sarmas/wraps”

And … we are to learn language and cuisinal culturez from the likes of her?

** Did you know that the Italian "cuccina', the French "cuisine" and the English "kitchen" are all from th same root?

Edited August 14, 2007 by Arpa

[ALMA]

have your mouth filled with piper for using furkish words to describe Armenian delicacies.

 

 

Piper is such an Armenian word wow we are in fact discovering a new language

Edited August 14, 2007 by ALMA

[ALMA]

Կարծում եմ, աշխարհի առաջին բաստուրմաջիները աղուեսներն են եղել, երբ ուզեցել են պահել աւելացած որսի միսը. թաքցնելով ընդերքում: Հողի ընդերքում գտնւող caraway seeds/քիմոն/չամանի (http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Caru_car.html) սերմերը, օգնել են միսի անապակ պահպանմանը:

 

Ասում ենք թրքերէն, թուրքական: Եթէ խօսքը բաստուրմայի անուան մասին է, պէտք է նկատի առնել եւս մեր ազգի այլասիրութիւնը, քաղաքական եւ պատմական պարագաները: Երբեմնի թուրքախօս հայերը մասնակցել են, այսպէս կոչուած՝ թուրքական մշակոյթի, արուեստի, բանահիւսութեան կերտմանը: Սա թուրքերի ինքնախոստովանութիւնն է:

 

Այլ խօսքով՝ կարելի ենթադրել որ բաստուրման, որպէս անուն, ապխտագործ հայերի կողմից ստեղծուած լինի: Թրքացած հայեր թրքախօս հայեր դարեր շարունակ ապրել ստեղծագործել եւ հետք են թողել:

 

Իմ միտքը նախորդ նամակում սա էր. Մեծ հաւանականութեամբ հայերը պատրաստում եւ ուտում էին բաստուրմա, սակայն այլ անուն տալիս էին այդ ուտելիքին: Իսկ երբ թուրքերն եկան, այդ ապուխտի անունը թրքացրինք եւ դարձրինք բաստուրմա, այնպէս ինչպէս զուտ հայաբնակ գիւղերի, ձորերի, անտառների, լեռների, դաշտերի, գետերի եւ արհեստների անունները թրքացրինք. Կամայ-ակամայ, գիտութեամբ եւ անգիտութեամբ:

We all have different ideas and ways of explaining and unless there is a real source where we can find the story of basturma it will be unknown to all of us.

 

[Arpa]

Thanx for the tale hope 1 out of 3 basturmas will be for me, now what was basturma called before the turks invented the name?

Anhargvats chem zgum, sxal haskatsumner bolori mot el linume, unlike you some jump to conclusions very quickly showing the rest the degree of their insaneness.

I do acknowledge that the word is turkish as bastirma et in turkish means pressed meat, but apkhtats mis is not the Armenian name for Basturma. It may be in Western Armenian but surely not in Eastern Armenian as Apkhtats mis could well be basturma or any other uncooked meat.

Yes . Of course. Dearest ALMA.

Now it is a matter of Eastern Armenian and Western Armenian.

Whatever happened to GOOD OLD ARMENIAN?

Do you know real Armenian without the EAST or WEST?

[Arpa]

Piper is such an Armenian word wow we are in fact discovering a new language

Do you know Armenian?

Do you know that "piper" is a corruption of the Arabic Filfel as in the plural "falafel" ՓԻՓԷՐ /փիփէլ/ֆիֆէլ?

After all. Who do think introduced "pepper" to Europe?

Plesase don't speak about language until you learn ARMENIAN, never mind EAST or WEST.

If you're such an armenologist as you claim to be, now let's see you write in the Mesropian Ա Բ Գ script.

Now that we thought we had finally convinced Shahan and company to please stop drawing straight lines between EA and WA, here come you, to yet draw another” basturma” line. Can you please tell us which of the masters of EA, be it Tumanian, Isahakian, Charents, Terian or Sevak said that “basturma” is an Armenian word, or used it in their masterpieces?

 

Edited August 14, 2007 by Arpa

[Takoush]

Please Anahid, don’t be so vulnerably sensitive.

Please be more circumspect. Read the entire post.

Yes, we all enjoy such parlor games as to "what is the ' Armenian word for Bamia' ""? Surprise, surprise! It is "bamia". Or how to translate "Swedish meatballs"? Like "shvetakan msa-gndak". Our aim is not inventing new words for "swedish meatballs" or Neapiltan Pizza. Our aim is to recover what we called those Armenian Delicacies, the likes of "lits" and "terev-patouk" before those barbarians set foot on our lands.

Yes.

 

That's your version Arpa, I have not been vulnerably sensitive and I have read the entire post. I believe most people on this Forum have shown their quite sensitive sides at times and that includes yourself. But as far as recovering the names of Armenian Delicacies, sure I am and have been all for it. I also despise the fact that some of our Armenian people have brought our coffee in this country and they called it "Turkish". Yes I despise that; I also despise that some other Armenians have introduced our "Madzun" again in this country and they called it "yoghurt". I find that so stupid and an anti-Armenian act.

 

Do you remember DeLala’s cartoon “Dolma Gouzes?” where I did not see any “dola”, they were all “sarmas/wraps”

And … we are to learn language and cuisinal culturez from the likes of her?

 

Yes I do remember and how comical it was.

 

** Did you know that the Italian "cuccina', the French "cuisine" and the English "kitchen" are all from th same root?

Unfortunately I don't know Italian; but no I didn't know of this and now I learned it from you. Thanks.

 

 

[ALMA]

Do you know Armenian?

Do you know that "piper" is a corruption of the Arabic Filfel as in the plural "falafel" ՓԻՓԷՐ /փիփէլ/ֆիֆէլ?

After all. Who do think introduced "pepper" to Europe?

Plesase don't speak about language until you learn ARMENIAN, never mind EAST or WEST.

If you're such an armenologist as you claim to be, now let's see you write in the Mesropian Ա Բ Գ script.

Now that we thought we had finally convinced Shahan and company to please stop drawing straight lines between EA and WA, here come you, to yet draw another” basturma” line. Can you please tell us which of the masters of EA, be it Tumanian, Isahakian, Charents, Terian or Sevak said that “basturma” is an Armenian word, or used it in their masterpieces?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear, Darling Arpa--- Were you born in April, Taurus??? Do you often find it difficult to find the type of clothing you are looking for? And do you often buy items and bring them home and regret and take them back??? It’s astonishing to see that 99. 99 % of your posts are edited and not because of the simple reason of having made a mistake and written th in stead of the. You simply change the whole of the post transforming it into a totally different comment. You are asking me if I know Armenian and you point out that piper originates from Arabic. What does Armenian have to do when you are talking about Arabic and all your posts are written in English?

The word "pepper" is derived from the Sanskrit pippali, the word for long pepper via the Latin piper which was used by the Romans to refer both to pepper and long pepper. In Latin, pepper was called piper, still today the botanical genus name.

It was introduced by the Indians, and pepper was known in Greece as early as in the 4th century.

Passing swiftly to Armenian Language, I ‘d never claim to be Armenologist, in fact its you the one who is the master linguist, I bet your teacher was George Gordon Byron.

If the word Basturma is derived from turkish, it doesn’t mean that when translated into Armenian, apukht, as you claim, is the Armenian version. It would rather be sekhmats/tsetsats/trorats mis or something alike. I’m not very familiar with any of the masters you have named, I’m more of a Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Jorge Luis Borges reader, but being born in Armenia allows me to say that if Tumanyan had to mention basturma in his “masterpiece” it would most certainly be basturma as Tumanyan uses joghovrdakan hayeren.

There should and must be a clear line between eastern Armenian and Western Armenian as they are very different. Grapar hayeren, the Armenian used in the churches today is perhaps the most correct Armenian but we don’t speak it. Let us not forget that Armenian has absorbed words from Persian, owing to Parthian domination in the centuries immediately before and after Jesus, from Greek and Syriac as a result of Christian influence, from French during the Crusades, and from Turkish in the course of several centuries of Turkish rule.

[Arpa]

WHATEVER!

I will not further read your qaqa.

I am glad that you researched and found out that "piper" is not from that, please excuse my French? //// . Who frist learned about piper/pghgpegh ''ՓԻՓԵՐ/pipel(r/)flfel from us.

Meybe, hopefully I amgetting across that not every Armenian word is not from that furkish.

You have a lot to learn. But first Learn HAYEREN and its relations, and sometimes NOT with its relation with the neighboring languages .

Maybe then we can speak in a more intelligent manner.

In conclusion. Forget "turka-hayeren"!

Edited August 15, 2007 by MosJan
LAv eli Arpa Papik