ASALA?

[MJ]

You mean that people like Monte Melkonian and Hagop Hagopian were manipulated by the Soviets?

 

If I understand correctly, at the time Monte has joined ASALA, he has probable been 18 years old. I doubt that Soviets have bothered even talking to him, and I think the question posed by you is more of rhetoric character, and a little bit prevocational rather then anything else. As to Hagoip Hagopian, I am more suspicious about his persona, but obviously cannot provide you any documental evidence to support my suspicions. So I would leave it there.

 

Well I don't feel liable at all as far as ASALA's acts are concerned Those who supported it are accountable for their acts and should pay if necessary.

OK. So what is your point? Is or isn’t ASALA a liability, however tangential, for Armenians in the court of public opinion?

...and how come that you are amazed when I say "soviets were certainly not inclined to exacerbate nationalist movements". Do you think the leaders of the Soviet Union had suicidal tendancies to the extent that they supported movements which would inevitably end up reviving nationalist feelings in one of the Soviet Republics leading to the break-up of the Union. No this seems simply absurd to me.

I think if we are looking for an absurd in this thread, it may be found in your paragraph referenced above. I think you have a tendency of mixing the apples with oranges. You should be more deleberate in your argumentations.

The last but not the least: you did not react to my assertion that the intensification of ASALA's terrorist acts coincided with the establishment of a military regime in Turkey and those terrorist acts were like a manna for the turkish junta which was trying to divert its public's attention from domestic issues( widespread and systematic human rights violations ,lack of democracy, various economic and social problems) getting the turkish public opinion concentrate instead contantly on that issue of 'armenian' terrorism.

Yes, I didn’t react to. Am I obligated to react to every single statement that you make? I can also suspect that the very fact of allowing Armenia to build a monument of Genocide in Armenia, and allowing public expressions of resentment against Turkey on the soil of Armenia effective 1965 attests to the fact of another shift (there have been several of them) of the Soviet Foreign policy towards Turkey. Why does it sound illogical to you that from the same considerations as Soviet Armenia was allowed to take some stance on the Genocide, USSR would’ve not supported ASALA?

So to whom did really the 'armenian' terrorism benefit: armenians around the world(whose name was sullied by blind terrorist attacks in Europe and the armenians of Turkey who came under enormous pressure-many armenians migrated to USA at that time) or the turkish military regime of that time? It's up to you to decide.

Dear Hovik, I have made my decisions long time ago, but will take your advise and revisit them. But I think you have to take it a little slow, and read my materials more deliberately, before replying to me.

 

I have to run, now.

[Guest]

'...and how come that you are amazed when I say "soviets were certainly not inclined to exacerbate nationalist movements". Do you think the leaders of the Soviet Union had suicidal tendancies to the extent that they supported movements which would inevitably end up reviving nationalist feelings

in one of the Soviet Republics leading to the break-up of the Union. No this seems simply absurd to

me.'

 

There is nothing absurd in the paragraph above and any person of good faith would understand it. You obviously don't want to see what is staring you in the face. What you say about ASALA and it being a Soviet manipulated organisation is not new. It was fashionable(I don't know if you remember that and if you were abroad at that time but) to accuse Soviets of plotting against the West for every terrorist act. It was part of the Soviet conspiracy theory. But it was absurd. Just like accusing M. Ali Agca(Pope's aggressor) of being a KGB agent. What a disinformation! It later turned out that Agca was the member of a right wing extremist movement(the gray wolves) which was fighting communists in Turkey and trying to get Central Asian republics independent...This is to tell you how your Soviet conspiracy theory is logical

 

ASALA is a liability for those who commited those terrorist acts, those who supported them morally or financially, these ones should be tried, yes and not only in the public opinion courts. It's not a liability for ordinary armenians who don't have the blood of diplomats on their hands and the armenians in general in Armenia who have nothing to do with these acts.

[MJ]

...and how come that you are amazed when I say "soviets were certainly not inclined to exacerbate nationalist movements". Do you think the leaders of the Soviet Union had suicidal tendancies to the extent that they supported movements which would inevitably end up reviving nationalist feelings in one of the Soviet Republics leading to the break-up of the Union. No this seems simply absurd tome.' There is nothing absurd in the paragraph above and any person of good faith would understand it. You obviously don't want to see what is staring you in the face. What you say about ASALA and it being a Soviet manipulated organisation is not new. It was fashionable(I don't know if you remember that and if you were abroad at that time but) to accuse Soviets of plotting against the West for every terrorist act. It was part of the Soviet conspiracy theory.

 

I have to say that you have a very strange manner of making an argument. You forget that the paragraph in the quotations is yours – not mine. Tell me, so that I understand your logic, please, in what manner the sponsorship of ASALA by the USSR implies suicidal attempt by the Soviets? In what way have the actions of ASALA lead to the break-up of the Soviet Union? Are your insinuations about the logic of my statements resulted from the limited knowledge of your English, from the fact that you don’t read, but glance through, or is there some other factor that I cannot understand? What is the issue here? Help me to understand, please.

 

But it was absurd. Just like accusing M. Ali Agca(Pope's aggressor) of being a KGB agent. What a disinformation! It later turned out that Agca was the member of a right wing extremist movement (the gray wolves) which was fighting communists in Turkey and trying to get Central Asian republics independent...This is to tell you how your Soviet conspiracy theory is logical

 

Off the logic and off the point of the argument. Therefore – no comments.

 

ASALA is a liability for those who commited those terrorist acts, those who supported them morally or financially, these ones should be tried, yes and not only in the public opinion courts. It's not a liability for ordinary armenians who don't have the blood of diplomats on their hands and the armenians in general in Armenia who have nothing to do with these acts.

 

Great. You should make that argument to the Turkish side. No need to convince me. And in general, there is no need to insinuate an argument on my behalf, and then to start to negate it. It is just a wasteful exercise.

[Guest]

Well, what can I say?

Soviet union was not a country where nationalism was permitted. You were suggesting that ASALA a 'nationalist movement' was backed secretly by USSR why?

I cannot think of a more absurd thing.

Why did USSR has launched ASALA? Explain yourself rather than losing yourself in endless questions.

It's obvious that a 'nationalist' movement like ASALA as it revived(you are saying this yourself)the nationalism in the diaspora it would have revived the armenian nationalism in Armenia. Do you think this is what was sought by USSR? That's what I was asking. Do you think russians launched a movement which would harm the unity of USSR?

 

That's absurd that's all.

 

I am reading what you are writing but you don't seem to try to understand what I am saying.

 

Agca case is not off the topic even a child would understand that this is a good example of western disinformation about an alleged soviet conspiracy.

 

By the way read yourself. You are defending the turkish point of view and the probaganda better than turks.

[MJ]

No comment.