Armen Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I don't have anything against those that have been Armenian for thousands of years. But changing the names that were given initially long time ago into something else is pointless. Anyway, the topic was about Artsaxi toponyms. What do you mean by "long time ago". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 (edited) Both Fuzuli and Khatai were Persians. This reminds me of silly attempts to divide Azeri culture between Turks and Persians. Whatever deals with language goes to the Turkish section, whatever is related to culture goes to the Persian one. "Fuzuli and Khatai were Persians..." hahaha Even Persians do not claim that. They also translated into Turkic some poems but wrote in Persian. I wouldn't be so sure about this if I were you. Fuzuli is considered the first classic poet to write in Azeri and Khatai was his follower. Fuzuli's poems are widely known in Azerbaijan, Turkey, and Iraq. I told you, you have no idea of what Azeri culture is. Don’t pretend you don’t know that Azeris never had ther own alphabet to write in. Under Perisans, they gave you Persian to write in, under Russians cyrilllic, and a couple of years ago, you have changed it to Latin. I wonder why? Oh, that is what you mean. Because at first it sounded like Azeris didn't have any writing system before 1920s at all. Well, back in early medieval time, when Islam spread all over the Middle East that was a rule for Muslim people to write in Arabic script (Persians didn't "give" Azeris anything) so all Muslims would be able to understand their writing. In 1918 Azeris started using Roman script (it was used along with the Arabic one till 1928). But in 1939 Stalin, who was afraid of Turkish influence in Azerbaijan, established a new Russian-based alphabet for Azeris. So basically, it wasn't Azeris' will to change it. That is why in 1992 Roman script was reestablished. But you claim that every civilized nation must have its own alphabetical system. Then what about English, Germans, Poles, Czechs, Norwegians, Danes, Swedes, Finns, Americans, Canadians, who use Latin alphabet and have always been using it, does it mean that they are all uncivilized? What about Russians, Bulgarians, Serbs using Greek-based alphabet which is also "not theirs"? Think before you state something like this. You choose not to believe real people, but bogus data from expired Soviet encyclopedias because you live in imagination. I choose not to believe people who may say anything for their own favour. And since "expired" encyclopedia (I wonder what defines its expiration; they are being republished over and over whatsoever) is the only unbiased source, I choose to believe it. Edited January 30, 2004 by Gino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 What do you mean by "long time ago". By this I mean that the town was originally named with an Azeri toponym of Khankendi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Gino, it is so gratifying to see in a position that we have been for a long time. Trying to convince the world that you in fact exist, that there is such a thing as an Azeri, whatever that mey be. We know it, we have been there, we have invoked librariesful of documentations to no avail. You can try. In the meantime Kahnkendi and other idiotic villages are lost in the dustbin of history, there is not even one "dam" (roof) left in Aghdam. You want those names restored....? COME AND GET IT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 By this I mean that the town was originally named with an Azeri toponym of Khankendi. No, I asked how much "long" is the "long time" you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 No, I asked how much "long" is the "long time" you mentioned. I don't know when the village of Khankendi was founded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 (edited) Gino, it is so gratifying to see in a position that we have been for a long time. Trying to convince the world that you in fact exist, that there is such a thing as an Azeri, whatever that mey be. We know it, we have been there, we have invoked librariesful of documentations to no avail. You can try. In the meantime Kahnkendi and other idiotic villages are lost in the dustbin of history, there is not even one "dam" (roof) left in Aghdam. You want those names restored....? COME AND GET IT!!! You guys can even name Shusha "Nor-Yerevan" if you want. As long as these territories are offically Azeri, those names do not play any important role. Edited January 30, 2004 by Gino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 (edited) I don't know when the village of Khankendi was founded. Artsakh was mentioned as a province of Armenia in Zoranamak (a list of millitary provided by each province) of the Arshakouni Kingdom. When the Armenian kingdom fall to Persians in 428AD and Armenians went to rebelion in 451AD, Artsakh was still mentioned as a province providing millitary. Armenian Historian who described the Avarair battle with Persians mentioned the name of the Prince of Artsakh (I forgot his name) province who was the commander of Artsakh's forces. He even mentions that Artsakhs prince organized the orderly retreat of his men from the battle field and kept attacking Persians for almost a year until they left Armenia. After that he returned to Artsakh. So, you see, Khankendi may be a purely Azeri village. We changed its name because that was the tactics of every foriegn conqueror of Armenia, including the Azeries. That's your tactics, which is very effective. For you long time may be 300 years, for me long time is eighter 1500 or 15 years. After all, the one who wins makes the history. Go ask Turks, they just love this saying. Edited January 30, 2004 by ArmenSarg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 ArmenSarg, I'm not really interested in that historic lecture. But I agree with the rest of your posting. Especially with this: "the one who wins makes the history". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 ArmenSarg, I'm not really interested in that historic lecture. But I agree with the rest of your posting. Especially with this: "the one who wins makes the history". Yeah, nomads were never interested in history. Just pay attenetion to what's the quality of history you make, so that when you nominate it to UNESCO prize, you don't end up like Turks who were humiliated by world media on their 800 anniversary of Ottoman Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I don't have anything against those that have been Armenian for thousands of years. But changing the names that were given initially long time ago into something else is pointless. People who indulge in the practice of changing their own names are basically unhappy, insecure individuals with an inferiority complex. The same for countries that have such a policy at state level, such as Turkey, Armenia, Turkish occupied Northern Cyprus, etc. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 (edited) The inferiority complex of Scots: proving the validity of their service to the Anglos, the moral of their betrayal to the Irish and their human character to the God. And they do this on international level. Edited January 30, 2004 by ArmenSarg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Yeah, nomads were never interested in history. Probably. But if you think Azeris are nomads, you're once again wrong. As an ethnic group Azeris were formed in the Caucasus and present-day Northern Iran. That means this is their homeland. There are still Kurds who prefer a nomadic way of life. But I don't say that Kurds are nomads. So you guys stop sticking lables on people by their nationality. You have no moral right for that. The ancestor of all Indo-Europaeic nations (including Armenians) - Aryans - were once nomads too. They invaded large terrotiries assimilating native peoples. Should I say that peoples of the largest linguistic group in the world are nomads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 People who indulge in the practice of changing their own names are basically unhappy Azeris didn't change their name. The fact that some ignorant Russian scholar invented a term like "Caucasian Tatars" or whatever back in 18th century doesn't mean that it was Azeris who referred to themselves like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Probably. But if you think Azeris are nomads, you're once again wrong. As an ethnic group Azeris were formed in the Caucasus and present-day Northern Iran. That means this is their homeland. There are still Kurds who prefer a nomadic way of life. But I don't say that Kurds are nomads. So you guys stop sticking lables on people by their nationality. You have no moral right for that. The ancestor of all Indo-Europaeic nations (including Armenians) - Aryans - were once nomads too. They invaded large terrotiries assimilating native peoples. Should I say that peoples of the largest linguistic group in the world are nomads? ArmenSarg, I'm not really interested in that historic lecture. I didn't say Azeries are nomads. I said "nomads were never interested in history" because of your statement above. So, it's you that thinks Azeries are nomads not me. Regarding the Arians. Just review the corse of history and you'll see that the Arian invasion was justified by their contribution (I would say leading role) to the overall development of the world. Whilest Turks and Mongols devastated a large territory, which never brought to any civilizational advance. If you view yourself as the decendants of Caucasian Albalns, you're on the wrong side of frontline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARR Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Azeris didn't change their name. The fact that some ignorant Russian scholar invented a term like "Caucasian Tatars" or whatever back in 18th century doesn't mean that it was Azeris who referred to themselves like that. Gino, Then why wouldn’t you quote a reliable historical source? When were Azeris as a nationality first mentioned in foreign sources? Here is what I found about Caucasian Tatars in another Russian encyclopedia. It is in Russian, though. Азербайджанские татары, мугалы многочисленнейшее из закавказск. племен, живут в губ. Елизаветпольск., Бакинск., Ереванск. и Тифлисской, 1139 т., частью оседлые, частью перекочевыв. со стадами в горы и обратно. Большая часть шииты, меньш. сунниты. Фанатичны и склонны к грабежам. Source Link Armenians have nothing to do with that website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 The regions within the province of Artsakh are: Askeran, Shushi, Stepanakert, Mardakert, Martuni, Hadrut, Shahumyan and Kashatagh. This is a good link to info on the regions: http://census.stat-nkr.am/nkr/1-4.pdf (might take little long to load) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertik1 Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Why is the azeri Gino allowed on this forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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