Twilight Bark Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Aghvor & AghegIt is interesting that those quintessentially "Western Armenian" words apparently have not entered the "Eastern" lexicon even after a large number of Western Armenians integrated into Armenia. Considering the ease with which "foreign" words make their way into Armenian, I find it somewhat curious. Could it be that the idiosyncracies found within our own flock is less acceptable than a totally foreign one? Do you think this reflects something important about our culture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Not sure what those terms mean ... are they used like: "Plav@ aghvor chi ... xhendrem mi kich aghek vor hamov lini?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 well, "lav" is much shorter and easier to say, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted June 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 well, "lav" is much shorter and easier to say, isn't it?Sure Harut jan. "La" or "a" is even shorter . Making a "thumbs up" sign even skirts the whole issue of making a sound. Seriously though, these are not difficult enough words to account for their "rejection". If that were the case, Arpa would not be (rightly, oh so rightly) complaining about "mile-long" words, of which we have plenty. These are not words made-up by 19th century writers; they are "native", natural words. Anyway, I guess your opinion then is that their lack of acceptance is not an example of something deeper. Fair enough.Others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted June 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 For those who don't know what I am talking about Aghvor: Nice; beautiful (probably related to the word "allure" in French, English, etc.) Agheg: Well; good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 well, i'm not saying they are useless. they are used (maybe only to very small limit) in EA.our language is rich and has many different words to mean the same thing.some are mostly used in WA, some are used in EA.anoti/sovats for example. as for that there is something weird about our culture for that reason, i don't know, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted June 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Harut jan, I know you are not implying that they are useless. In fact you make the good point that having multiple words for the same group of concepts enriches a language and gives it the flexibility to express nuances and specific contexts by choosing the right words. And I appreciate your showing an interest in the subject. As for the cultural implications. It is perfectly expected that dialects form and keep diverging when populations are isolated from one another. But it is also expected that when populations mix, their languages do so as well, to some extent. This often seems to be the case even when there is some antipathy or mild animosity. I am interested in knowing the extent of "borrowing" from WA to EA in the 20th century. I am quite ignorant on the subject. If the extent is very little, one might reasonably suspect that some "cultural inhibition" (or perhaps state intervention) existed. I would like to hear more thoughts on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 (edited) Dear TB, I doubt it's political. WA literature is read in all schools in Armenia and WA vocab is included in practically all, if not all, (Soviet) EA dictionaries. If it is anything, then it could be cultural inhibition. You could compare this inhibition to the English-speaking world. And like the English-speaking world, the nations themselves do not need to be each other's (political) rivals just because they differ linguistically and culturally. Edit: Added info: The number of WA that moved back to Armenia, from what I know, was relatively little. It should therefore not be surprising that they picked up on the EA variety rather than influence it. The same would happen the other way around if an East Armenian were to move to Lebanon (or such). It's all about adapting. And again, you can best compare this to the English-speaking world and ask yourself how many Brits say "pants" for "trousers" and how many Americans use "pants" for "underwear"; keeping in mind the constant contact between both nations. Edited June 6, 2003 by nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Not sure what those terms mean ... are they used like: "Plav@ aghvor chi ... xhendrem mi kich aghek vor hamov lini?" Let us see what Jesus said about the subject in Matthew 5, 13;Matt.5 1.[13] Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.Duq eq erkri agh@. Apa ete agh@ ir ham@ korsntsne, inq inchov piti aghvi...?I cannot find separate monographs for Aghvor and Aghek to be only mentioned under AGH, yes agh/salt. We all know about the history of SALT. There have been wars over it, many words are based on it such as "salary", "salad/aghtsan". There was time specially before refrigeration, and even today when salt is regarded one of the most precious commodities. Sip may have hit on it with his "pilav".I am not sure how and when aghvor and aghek are used inerchageably, except that when pointing to a lovely girl we use "aghvor" (see Varouzhan's poem about his daughter, Varouzhnkis; "Aghvor, aghvor, aghvor vardn im garounis..." Aghvor and aghek, even hough they may both be based on the same root, agh, have come to mean slightly different, with a fine nuance.As above we may describe a lovely person/thing as "aghvor", "aghek" is often used to describe things in another way. The most common use of the latter can be illustrated so. "Inchpes es"? "Aghek em, du inchpes es?(In some dialects such as the Musa Ler the exchange may be; "Vonts is"? "Eghvyur im"! As mentioned above neither of the words are extensively analyzed yet each of them mentioned in a different context. Aghvor is identified as lovely, tasteful, hamov while aghek is only metioned as a synonym to "sastik". One of the synonyms to "sastik" is "bitter" once again going back to taste. Yes, too much salt may taste "bitter". But "agehk/sastik", may have evolved not unlike "terrific". We all know that "terrific", even though based on "terror" is often used; Inchpes es? "Sastik aghek em". " How are you"? "I feel terrific, how about you?"Not to forget another word we use based on agh/salt; "anli" to mean "tasteless". Hey Sip! How much agh was there in that "pilav"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Her are some synonyms from te Soukiasian bararan.(Let me first correct something. In the Musa Ler dialect it should read; "Chots is?, Eghvyur im!!") Aghvor: tes Geghetsik, Lav.Agehk: Lav, azniv, @ntir, patvakan. Not to forget that "aghek" is often used as an antonym to "hivand" as in "agheknal". Is "lav" the same as "love". :)I gues not :) as "lav" is the first syllable of "lavash" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Is "lav" the same as "love". :) I have no idea, but I do know that "lav" is "lev" in .... ahahaha! Harut jan, this one's for you Can you guess what barbar "lev" is said in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 Is "lav" the same as "love". :)I have no idea, but I do know that "lav" is "lev" in .... ahahaha! Harut jan, this one's for you Can you guess what barbar "lev" is said in? sorry i just saw the question. is it Artsaxski barbar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 is it Artsaxski barbar? Possibly... I don't know. But it's not the one I had in mind... Look closer to my parents' home (part of a city, if you can remember) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Jughai (New Julfa/Nor Jugha in Isfahan), or as they like to say: Jughtsu barbar. In context: "Kha ba vonts as? Lev am, lev." I don't blame you for not remembering btw; I think I only mentioned it once quite some time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jano1968 Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 We also have to take into consideration ,that even in WA there are alot of different dialects..For example I am Armenian to an Aintabzy parents,(Aintab city in historic Armenia)we use Aghvor but we dont use Agheg.. We use Lav.. More confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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