hagopn Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iW9u61_oKQQ https://eksisozluk.com/cin-elar--2255268kına ari man ari, çin elar çin elarçin elarıs tamama, harıt kıdi dun arekurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman aintzi hamar lusnak yesmerpipari tzerpipari cıhkerı, cıhkerımadanu ankin ag yesintzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagaticami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeriay dığa volor molor, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamama,konimen kosim polorkurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman agabel yes kirman kodinmerpipari tzerpipari cıhkeri, cıhkeriintz ces tohum kez modigintzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagaticami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkerimi pahir serıs tu yes, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamamaaraçın serıs tu yeskurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman aaherp arı yerp kıdarmerpipari tzerpipari cıhkeri, cıhkerikılhin lihşen ajva vahintzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagaticami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeriyes modaj yem kocari, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamamatu nişane modanikurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman amert zerıt ku can ahcigmerpipari tzerpipari cıhkeri, cıhkeriimlalu vay can ahcigintzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagaticami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 h.n. jan what kind of vids are those? I mean you should not be meddling with the Kurds specially the revolutionary ones.It you want my opinion this is Armenian Dikragatezti dialect, its an Armenian song but its sung by the Kurds. The letters of lyrics looks to me Turkish, the Kurds have their own letters but are not allowed to write by it in Turkey. I may be mistaken so wait for another comment from someone else. By the way do you ever sleep or you are 24 hours a day on front of the computer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Very good chance that it's Hamshentsi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 anonim bir ermeni halk şarkısı. This means "My mother's Armenian folk song" I got this from the link you have in your post above the song lyrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Man, I just write fast--, and you might just be right about the dialect, and it is entirely possible that these people did mistranscribe and sing incorrectly much of the words.. I also sourced this from another Armenian forum. The links were provided in their post. Yervant, Hamshentsi has more Grabarr elements to it, and it is borderline phonetically speaking between Eastern and Western. This one sounds more so western. intzi hamar lusnak yesmerpipari tzerpipari cıhkerı, cıhkerımadanu ankin ag yesintzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagaticami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri This above is definitely some sort of western Armenian, a bit localized, perhaps even distorted by these Kurds (which wouldn't be at all surprising), but definitely western Armenian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) What if we read the I without the dot as the Armenian Ը . What do we get? Also note that that I used in other places like cikeri r..e ջիկարԸ And what do we get when we read the C as the Slavic C to sound like Ց/TS Ձ/DZ like Ձին ելար. You rode the horse? I have to read it more carefully to see more. Edited February 2, 2014 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Note that the writer is someone called Paylak. Yervant translated the furkish title correctly. ---- anonim bir ermeni halk şarkısı. sözleri: kına ari man ari, çin elar çin elar çin elarıs tamama, harıt kıdi dun are kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman a Գնա արի, ման արի, ձին ելար, ձին ելար Ձին ելար ես թամամ ա , հէըդ գիտի դուն արի Գուրգեն ջան, Բաբկեն ջան հալըս յախսշի յաման ա. TBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 On a second reading I believe "anonim" means anonymous and not mother, last night after few drinks my eyes saw it as "Anamin" read the "i" without the dot which means my mother. So the correct title would be "An anonymous Armenian folk song" . Now the title doesn't mean that the singer is Armenian, therefore the Hamshen connection is less likely. You're right Hakop it sounds more Western Armenian with some turkish words because we all know that Armenians did use turkish words as well with Armenian. As for the "c" with the dot under sounds like "tch" and the "s" with the dot under sounds like "sh", the "g" with the dot on top sounds like "ghe" they call it softer "g". I doubt that "cin" means horse with dot under "c", because it should sound as "tchin" and not TS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 intzi hamar lusnak yes merpipari tzerpipari cıhkerı, cıhkerı madanu ankin ag yes intzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagati cami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri Ինձի համար լուսնակ ես Մեր պիպէրը ձեր պիպէրը, ջիկէրը, ջիկէրը Մատանու անգին ակ ես Ինձի վառեց Հոռոմիսմը** Կայանէ ը Շողակաթը Ծամը ձեռը ջիկէրը: ay dığa volor molor, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamama, konimen kosim polor kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşi yaman a gabel yes kirman kodin Այ տղայ ոլոր մոլոր, ձին ելար, ձին ելար ես թամամ ա Քանիմըն կոսիմ բոլոր Գուրգեն ջան, Բաբկեն ջան հալըս յախշի յաման ա Կապել ես քիրման գօտին: Refrain. Մեր պիպէրը . mi pahir serıs tu yes, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamama araçın serıs tu yes kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşi yaman a aherp arı yerp kıdar Մի փախիր, սէըս դու ես ձին ելար Գուրգեն ջան. Ահ երբ արի, երբ գտար: Refrain . kılhin lihşen ajva vah Գլխին լիխշեն այվախ, վախ Ես մոտ եմ, ք ո յարը. ^^I think Horomism is meant to be Hripsimeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Yervant,You may be right anout chin, i.e jin = anger. Edited February 2, 2014 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 No Arpa in turkish anonim is anonymous I know this 100%. Mi pahir means don't hide not don't scape. So the sentence is "Don't hide you're my love" that's what I understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I had thoughts that that O is meant to sound like A as Come. i.e "anamin" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yervant,You may be right anout chin, i.e jin = anger.Jin most probably in this song means "Ghost" like disappeared as ghost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I had thoughts that that O is meant to sound like A as Come. i.e "anamin"In turkish every letter sounds as it is, "o" will sound as "o". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) I took all the H s as KH, however in vulgar Armenian we hear said Jin@s mi haner. "Don't make me angry". Edited February 2, 2014 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 My first thought it was Hameshtine Armenian but I have listed to some of their tapes and speak and this one does not looked Hameshtine to me. It is more likely the SASOUNTSI Armenian, of course nobody hears today of Sasuntsi Armenian dialect because almost most were massacred in the 1915 genocide. So this is from that region: Sasun & Dikranakert (today's Diarbeker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 It's more likely "hokis mi haner" meaning ghost not anger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Thank you Yervant for your kind indulgence. And your apt amendments. Now, in that light we need to revise my entire. interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Thank you Yervant. Youre right. I should have noticed that they are using the furkish C , i.e in Jin and Jiker Tho I still maintain that jin is used to mean anger. as in jin yelar=barkatsar, you became angry. I will try it again, stanza by stanza. and finally we will translate it to English. I am sure it needs further refinement and amendments. ---- Գնա արի, ման արի, ման արի, Ճին ելար, ճին ելար, Ճին ելեր ես թամամը, հէրըդ գիտի, տուն արի Գուրգեն ճան , Բաբկեն ճան , հալըս յախշի յաման** ա :: ** Հալ= վիճակ.. Yakhshi ***and Yaman are furk-asszeri to mean totally and miserable/cruel respectively and Tamam=total, complete.. My furkish dictionary says yahshi means pretty, which is a revision at best. I will abstain from going into their vocabulary. *** It s like when an asszeri says men yakhshi bilerum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yaman means clever (jarpik) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Yaman means clever (jarpik)The dictionary says "yaman=strong violent", like when they say the pepper is yaman. We have spoken about this in re Dle Yaman, when I interpreted it as Cruel Heart. Edited February 2, 2014 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I don't use any dictionary, I go with the common daily usage of it. If you say this kid is yaman, it means (atchqe bats) clever. Maybe it changes according to the sentence, for example the pepper is (hot), the kid is (clever) or the kid is (strong) what I mean is multiple usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yervant, Arpa is also on the right track. Yaman is used to mean "jarbig", cunning, but also to mean ruthless, remorseless, uncouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Excellent! I knew I could count you. Team work it is! --> Yervant, it is anonymous. Modern Turkish is extremely latinized not only in script, but its "modern" vocabulary. Perhaps Mustafa The Camel essentially had Hagop Debil-anchar (aysinkn Esh oghl eshek) replace most perso-arabic terms with latin terms. What is ճին? Իզ դատ արաբիկ ֆոր դիմը՞ն։ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Jin is ghostly apparition that's what it means, like calling someone "ciniviz" meaning now you see now you don't, usually used for fast kids or unruly. I have never heard the word yaman used as ruthless, I'm not disputing it but from my experience it was always used as mischievous and "takits ashkhatogh" which is cunning. When mustafa camel took over, he ordered the linguists to clean up the non language from foreign words, when they came back with the report, there were only about 500 words which is not enough, the order was given to leave it as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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