BASQUES AND ARMENIANS

[Arpa]

So!! The Basque speak Armenian? Physician heal thyself. Բժիշկ բժշկեայ զանձն քո:

Speaking of losing ones soul , look at the tragically sorry state of the Armenian Language.

25% furkish, 25% Persian, 25% bastardized russo-latin. What is left?

RIP St. Mesrop!!! Արամազդը** հոգին լուսավորէ:

**Ես Աստուծոյ Անունը պարապ տեղ չեմ բերաներ:

Edited January 26, 2014 by Arpa

[hagopn]

Arpa, Are you now driving the discussion into self-immolation territory? "We have some thieves and adulterers among us. We have no right to be called Chrstian let alone claim first Christian statehood."

 

Yes, I feel your pain.

[hagopn]

We wrote like that from the beginning

http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Խոխոռունիներ

 

 

Տոհմական անունը նոյնացավ Հուռինեռու, Աւետարանի Հոռիտներու հե՞տ։ Շատ աւելի բարի։ Ուրեմն հաստատեցինք որ հայկական արմատ ու հայկական հարստութիւն/dynasty էին։ Մեծ ուրախութեամբ ընդուուեցաւ։

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[Arpa]

Arpa, Are you now driving the discussion into self-immolation territory? "We have some thieves and adulterers among us. We have no right to be called Chrstian let alone claim first Christian statehood."

 

Yes, I feel your pain.

Yes Hagop, I believe what my son the philosopher said " If it is not broken. Break it!!

[hagopn]

It is broken. Break it again with some more of the same Monkey breaking?

 

It appears that we are at a standstill. I of course will not budge. Armenians are an ancient people whose history has been misrepresented by foreign and domestic vagrants and hostiles presenting themselves as authorities on the topic for decades now. The process is accelerating per the demands of the Turkish History Society's manifesto of total erasure of Armenians from Armenia's history.

 

The connection with the Basque that started this thread drew the typical brainwashed reaction of the present day Monkey Armenian. That is going to be chipped away by the likes of myself and many much smarter for however long it takes. The Monkey will soon become the Dinosaur, extinct, dead, shriveling carcass, and once again the ARmenian, with strength in his self-awareness and past lessons will gain his former composure as much as each step of political ascendency that comes with it brings..

 

In the meanwhile, let the Monkeys try to Shine. They have already been largely discredited among the thinking public.

 

Also, without exception, the ones that react immediately positively to this are of sound mind, without complexes, and are willing to see things as they were. In fact, they are able to see things as they were when Armenia and the psyche of Armenians hadn't been infested with the turkic vermin.

 

The ones who resist this are inundated in shame and fear.

 

As a disclaimer to the typical leftist and anti-nationalist boors lurking in the background (although they are probably too busy deconstructing our national identity in their bolshevik/marxist hugging sessions in Facebook and aylur), let me state this: Now Armenians are finding that there are also healthy minds among turkish citizenry. That merely proves that these folks have non-altaic ancestry, most likely Armenian.

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

At least I can say this: This discussion, despite the subdued sarcasm that is seldom but certainly palpable, has been civil.

 

Most of the time, the Monkey technique is to discredit via insult, belittlement and ridicule, total ad hominem while ignoring content, intentional distraction from the actual content.

 

The other technique, of course the Appeal to Monkey Authority, where Monkey cites Monkey With Phd (Who Still Can't Dare to Catch the Banana).

 

Then there's the media Belittlement Blitz campaigning:

 

For example, I saw an televised interview/forum with Armen Ayvazyan, absolute turcophile Ashot Bleyan, absolute imbecile Robert Sahakyantz the cartoonist and two boneheaded journalists. Most of the dialog, especially by Sahakyants, was in Russian, the Mother Tongue of "academic and cultural" Monkeys in Armenia. The journalists were obviously biased against Ayvazyan. The entire interview was meant to simply belittle Ayvazyan and marginalize him.

 

It failed among the general thinking public, but it succeeded among the Monkey Initiates, those undergrads and graduate students who are busy getting brainwashed by their Monkey history professors, poli-sci professors and so on. The general population of Armenians is, fortunately, still healthy and very nationalist minded, and they were generally furious after the interview.

[Arpa]

WOW!!

I am so glad beyond description, that we are back to talking about Armenian Culture. It beats by 10 thousand miles those inane arguments about dolma being from Urarto-Armenian toli/tolma. Note the D/Դ in dolma and the T/Տ in Toli..

When did the Yerevanites start speaking bolsahyeren where the D turns to T? Like When Baronian becomes Paronyan

[hagopn]

Armenian culture it is, then. Keep in your mind that we have the Dog Star's patent. We are the oldest in the domestication of dogs. We are the ones who have burial ceremonies that involves burial of the dog with master.

 

If the stale old argument is that "we were not really us back then," then I have to object and ask for proof of when and how, exactly, did we cease to be what we were and became what we are. ---->(*&$%&*^$%

 

When and how did the "Urartuan" (non-existent entity) lose the war (that never happened) to Armenians (who were always the same people, therefore ones who cannot seek war against themselves) and lose their cultural identity? Where are the remnants of this large and impressive Empire, Kingdom of millions, the one who had running water, the one who had healed skull fractures among its remains (indicating surgical procedure on the brain/head), and so on?

 

If indeed the Armenians are "distinct" from the "Urartuan", then where were those enigmatic "Urartuans" in the Artashesian period? Indeed, if the IE language has a history of at least 4500 to 5000 years in Armenia according to many linguists, then why indeed did the ARmenians have to "migrate in" at the 2500 year mark and "annihilate" (without any record of such a thing ever happening) the "non-Indo-European, Neo-Hurrianite Urartuans?"

 

What a load of *)&O^#$&*^$, really.

 

The rich language of Armenians was already coherent and highly developed at the very beginning of the Mashtotsian era, which is infinitely more meaningful an Era than the "Grigorian" non-Era of destruction, of the looting and burning of native Armenian sanctuaries recorded by Agathangelos. This rich language is clearly one that requires a sophisticated and stable, sedentary and industrious culture. it is not the language of "a hodge podge of herders who merged with native Neo-Hurrianite/Chechenite farming culture" etc, yev ayln and other such sheer nonsense and &*(^$%(&*$^%.

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

I have not read Armen Ayvazyan's book but I know about it, if I'm not mistaken we have here at Hyeforum some discussions about the case in point.

Here I found this!

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=9631&hl=%22armen+ayvazyan%22

 

Also this one

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=17239&hl=%22armen+ayvazyan%22

 

I'm sure there are more out there!

I have no doubt in my mind that not even for one second that there are strong forces out there trying to keep us back, I mean forces in plural because if the truth comes out, many countries have so much to lose in the public opinion if not financial. Doubters go ahead and make fun out it if you like, because I don't give a sh*t.

 

Yervant, I just finished reading the first discussion. Bell-the-Cat is that weird Scot named Steve Sim who put together that bland porridge of a website Virtual Ani. He is very active in Hyeclub. They haven't banned him there for some reason. I did a test run to draw him out of the cockroach cracks with responses to a discussion about Onnik Krikorian, another Monkey Extraordinaire. Actually, Onnik is more of a Weasel In The Chicken Coop sort.

 

They talk about the so-called "association of Armens with Nairi" as a supposed distinct entity from those of the Hayassa and the Urartuan, and so on. Same old Monkey nonsense. There is in fact nothing like that ever stated in any history, nothing that says "the Nairi were Armens and were different from the Hayassa." It is pure distortion and concoction, a pasting and splicing together of references from different sources from vastly different eras about the same people by differing cultures and timelines. The Assyrians recall the Nairi. The Assyrians DO NOT recall the Hayassa-azzi. There is also NO indication, AT ALL, that Hayassa referred only to "Lesser Armenia." I have no idea who is in charge of this trashy "decipherment" of history, but they should all be fired from their posts. The Hayassa name is ONLY remembered in Hittite sources, and this is no surprise, since the Hittites were also Armenian speakers, or speakers of an Armenian-like dialect, hence the phenomenon of calling the Hay by their autonym of Hay!

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

Then there is this fascinating article by Robert Cowen that says nothing short of the following:

 

The Hittite, the Hayassa, and the Urartu in fact are the same entity! How about that for a Monkey Wrench in the Monkey Wheel?

 

Not only that, he posits that Phrygian is a Hellenic misnomer for the Hatti, the Hittites!

 

Greeks having made historical errors and mispronouncing things? Oh, it cannot be-- Let's eat some dzdziki and dolmathes, while singing songs by Tome Zones.

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

Twilight Bark, a member who resigned a while back, makes reference to the R. Gray's and Q. Atkinson's collaboration on the so-called Anatolia Languages

 

Here's a lengthy analysis http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/04/indo-european-origins-neolithic.html

 

The Monkey school of the Kurgan Theory are of course against the chronological (glottochronological) argument that the IE group is more ancient than previously thought due to the lexical affinity with Sumerian. Hey, V. Ivanov had been saying that since the beginning. It's interesting that these guys took over where Jensen had left off, where Ivanov rebooted, and decided that the IE genesis took place in Armenia (ok, "Neolithic Anatolia" in case it upsets too many sensitive souls).

 

The thing that fascinates me about Dieneke's blog is the off-the-wall misconceptions on Armenian history and culture by the commenters there. Fascinating.

 

However, the silver lining is a commenter named Ashraf who posted this http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/print/articles/aid/urheimat.pdf

Note the Indian scholars and their objections. Armenians doing the same thing would be labeled "a la Turka" by Teutonic Knight, Bell-the-Spat and his sort.

 

I like this entry in reference to the Sumerian language, an interesting example of the snake eating its own academic tail:

 

"But being the main language of civilization in ca. 3000 BC, one could not exclude contact through long-distance trade with the Kurgan area. Note however that the trade links between Sumeria and the Harappan civilization ("Meluhha" in Mesopotamian texts) are well-attested, e.g. the names Arisena and Somasena in a tablet from Akkad dating to ca.2200 BC. No such attestation exists for similar contacts with the Kurgan people."

 

The Harappan culture has not left decipherable linguistic traces to speak of, just hieroglyphs with no Rosetta equivalent. Therefore, we don't know the names of their cities. Therefore, what the hell is he talking about? It has not been determined that Meluhha refers to India, at least Harappa. Meluhha may well be Cochin, or Tyre, Muscat, Bahrain, Ebla, any sea port or river port. These folks are certainly interesting.

 

I tell you, Gavoukjian is someone I trust the most, because he just looks at the grander picture with more logic and soberness than any of these loopty-loop Phd doodlers.

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

As a report of this paper's link from above just to reference it properly, http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/print/articles/aid/urheimat.pdf, after doing a brief search on the author, it seems that this fellow is not chastised for his views in the Indo-centrist community or the so-called mainstream that accepts the AIT. Yet, reading this hullabaloo created a sharp craving for Aspirin. Unsupported assumption upon assumption fills the pages, but the author gives Zeppelin floating opinion the air of scholarly spindling.

 

No sir. It is especially Armenian nationalists who are attacked by the Trained Monkeys. As soon as you state something that is in the slightest Armenocentric, you are sure to have many who will attack with fangs and claws, sometimes with arsenic, sometimes with sulfuric acid in the digital face.

 

Armenians are indeed a special case. "Someone" is out to get us and kill our nationalism.

[Johannes]

 

Տոհմական անունը նոյնացավ Հուռինեռու, Աւետարանի Հոռիտներու հե՞տ։ Շատ աւելի բարի։ Ուրեմն հաստատեցինք որ հայկական արմատ ու հայկական հարստութիւն/dynasty էին։ Մեծ ուրախութեամբ ընդուուեցաւ։

Ո՛չ: Անոնցմէ մաս մը մասնակցեցաւ հայ ազգի կազմաւորման եւ հայացաւ ընդհանուրին մէջ:

Սեպագիրի տառադարձութիւնը սապէս Ĥ կընեն:

Սովորական հ չէ

[hagopn]

Ա՜ն ալ անորոշ է։ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%B8%AA

 

Իրականութեան մէջ, ՉԵՆՔ գիդեր հնշումը, բայց ես կնախնտրեմ Հ հնչիւնը։

 

Լաւ։ Ամեն ինչ լսեցինք։ Հուռինեռը եղան խոռխռունիներ, բայց չեղան խոռխոռունիներ, եւ այլն։ Ո՞ր ապացոյցով գիտենք որ ձուլուած էն հայութեան մէջ։ Դիաքնովի կախարդական 25 բառերո՞վ։

 

I don't know their language. All I know is that there are contradicting assumptions about the Hurrian identity. Some say they were Uralic, Finno-Ugric. Some say they were Dravdian migrants. Others say they were Semitic. Yet other say they were IE. That says to me that they don't know anything!

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

Why not try them as Australo-Aboriginals? Let's see what we get. Let's also try to see if Hurrians were so-called because there is this village in the vicinity of Darwin, Australia, called Hurrumurru. If there isn't such a village, let's invent one.

 

After all, Bede said "Armenia" (which is vastly, vastly different from saying ARmenians, because there is this Celtic extinct presence 1000km away in Western Anatolia), and now they say "He really didn't mean Armenia. He simply misspelled the name of a village across the channel."

 

Anything but "Hur", fire, from the language of a people that have always been there. Oh, che "amot e. Chi grnar ellal, yeghpayr."

 

Even if the damn thing is pronounced խ, the Van dialect is there to readily Armenianize Խուռի

 

Like I said, the Monkey Reflex is strong.

Edited January 26, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

The lack of participation by my friend from Aleppo has me worried. I hope all is well.

[Yervant1]

http://www.armradio.am/en/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/logo_up_en.png

The Forgotten Land of Ancestors: Civilization originated in the Armenian Highland

18:16 25.02.2014

0

Alisa Gevorgyan
Public Radio of Armenia

“Civilization originated in the Armenian Highland and spread all over the world.” This is the scientific thesis underlying director Arsen Hakobyan’s new film “The Forgotten Land of Ancestors.” A number of foreign scholars accept and support the thesis.

“The God created the preface to world history in the Armenian Highland. In myths and epics, as well as in the Old Testament Armenia is mentioned as the Land of Ararat, the Promised Land, where the paradise on earth was located and where foreigners were seeking for wisdom and immortality. After the Great Flood the new civilization walked down the slope of Ararat with Noah spreading the good tidings on the beginning of new life and with the dove carrying an olive branch in its beak.” This is how the film “From Ararat to Europe” begins. It tells about the considerable and sometimes pivotal role of Armenians in church-building in Armenia and beyond its borders. The film reminds about Leonardo Da Vinci’s visit to Armenia, his letters about Armenia.

The director is now working on the second film of the series – “The Forgotten Land of Ancestors.” According to Arsen Hakobyan, the film is a powerful means of propaganda.

Summing up the overall idea underlying the film, expert of Armenian studies Hamlet Martirosyan said: “Civilization originated in Armenia and spread all over the world.”

“The Basks, Bavarians and Brits will be mentioned in the film as examples of the nations that kept in memory their origin and the idea that they come from Armenia,” Martirosyan said. He added that the film will present scientific proofs of the fact that in the course of 4,000 years the first group of people left the Armenian Highland and reached the British Isles, settling in the different part of Europe.

Martirosyan noted that today the science is inclined to believe that the civilization had one cradle, and this is not something new. “There is only one step missing here. No one links this to the ethos, the people, who created and spread this civilization all over the world,” he added.

According to Hamlet Martirosyan, our national memory never says we have come from somewhere, because we are natives.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Yervant1

[Arpa]

CAN WE PLEASE MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS?

 

I mean MIND our BUSINESS.

Don't these so called linguists have anything better to do?

 

Can we clean our own house before we talk about the houses a million miles away?

We talk about Basque being a dialect of proto-Armenian when our own LANGUAGE, be it in the HOMELAND or the DIASPORA is on the verge of EXTICTION.

When we cannot even reconcile the differences between the YereVAN and VAN dialects, we are talking about Basque and Celto-Icelandic?

Do the Basque even know where Armenia is, and that Armenian is not Aramean?

Is the Ostrich/ՋԱՅԼԱՄ the Armenian National Bird? Burying our heads in the sand, chasing windmills in the Andorran/ Barcelonian desert.

http://mmsdamps.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/035ostrich_468x538.jpg

http://mmsdamps.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/035ostrich_468x538.jpg

Yes, by all means, let us bury our heads in the sand and ignore what is happening under our tails. Let us talk (talk is cheap) about the Basque and the Armenian Priests in Iceland, ****how we spread civilization from Ararat to Europe, and more nonsense. Why our unfriendly neighbors are not Christian, and they dont speak Armenian, but instead we speak their non-language. It is reminiscent of the old adage- If you dare not beat the eshek, then beat the saddle

Տուն տուն ենք խաղում: Մենք մեզի հարս ենք լինում, բայց ուր՞ է փեսան:

Not only \We were so Civilized, we also spread civilization to the Entire World?

To no forget how we Spread Christianity from Ararat to Zion when our own Christianity is in peril.. Is it not visa versa, the other way around?

Watch the above video and tell us where it talks about Armenian Writing. They talk about Sumerian and Akkadian. Where is the Armenian ? We even learn about us from foreign sources, from the Behistun steles where the word Armani/Armen is first recorded.

Some of us insist that we had writing before Mesrop.** Please show us one sentence, one phrase, one word, one letter written in the pre_Mashtots script. ***

Then there are those who tell us that Grigor the Illuminator, ՄՈՒԹԱՎՈՐԻՉ (Hi HagopN) erased all pre-Christian Culture..

WOW!!!

That Grigor the Enlightener. What kind of light did he have?

A Laser, with which He pulverized every vestige of out pre-Christian Culture, Language and Civilization.

ONE LAST TIME.

CAN WE PLEASE MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS??? AND PRESERVE OUR OWN LANGUAGE BEFORE IT MAKES THE UNESCO LIST OF EXTICT LANGUAGES LIKE MAORI AND APACHE.

**Some of us insist that Mashtots also devised the Georgian and Caucasian Albanian Alphabets. Is that why the Georgians write in the Mesropian Armenian, or do the ass-zeris, who claim to be the progeny of the Albanians?

***The so called Danielian Alphabet, based on the Semitic Assyrian Phonetics is a figment of someones imagination. I have yet o see even one word written in it.

**** How did those priests get to Iceland in the middle of nowhere frozen ocean? Did they sail on noahs creaky, leaky dinghy icebreaking navak/ kayak?

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=12044&page=1&&do=findComment&comment=149157

As Christians, let us see what Jesus said about the log in ones eye.

Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.

And this by Jesus.

"Surely you will quote this proverb to me: 'Physician, heal yourself!' [/quote

Լեզոաւգէտ ճշտիր լեզուն քո, նախ քան խօսել Բասքի մասին:

Is it why we call that delicacy basquerma? : jester:

====

I know, I know. I am spinning my wheels and beating water trying to revive the Forum to its original format and mission.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Arpa

[MosJan]

ehhhhh.. inchpes kser Qeri Edward@ jamanakin . inch asem or....

 

 

asatsnrit mej mets jshmartutyun ka.. iyo tsavali.. sakayn jshmarit

[Arpa]

name="MosJan" post="316756" timestamp="1393711661"]

ehhhhh.. inchpes kser Qeri Edward@ jamanakin . inch asem or....

asatsnrit mej mets jshmartutyun ka.. iyo tsavali.. sakayn jshmarit

Սիրելի Մովսէս ինչ՞ ես ասում: Միթէ դու ծաղրում՞ ես կամ ամրապնթում իմ վերեւի գիրը:

Ոչ, գիտեմ որ դու չես ծաղրում, այլ լուրջ ճշմարտանք ես խօսում, բայց միթէ մեր զրուցակիցները հասկանում՞ են թէ իմ գիրը լուրջ ճշմարիտ ՞ է կամ կատակ՞:

Վերեւ մենք Բասքի մասին ենք խօսում, երբ մեզմէ շատերը չգիտեն Բագարանը կամ Պարսկաստանը որտեղ են:

Edited March 1, 2014 by Arpa

[Yervant1]

From Armenia to Devonshire


March 8, 2014

Striking similarities between prehistoric monuments in Devon England,
and Armenia

I came across an interesting book today, titled "Historical views of
Devonshire" by Richard Polwhele (1793).

In his book Polwhele argues that the first inhabitants of Britain came
from Armenia. And specifically settled in the South Britain's Devon or
Devonshire as it's also called. Let's examine some of the arguments
mentioned in the book.

Polwhele introduces his theory by saying: "That the original
inhabitants of Danmonium were of eastern origin, and, in particular,
were Armenians, is a position which may, doubtless, be supported by some show of
authority." Danmonium being the Latin name for Davon. He goes on to
explain:

"Let us consider the testimony of one of our chronicles, which speaks
to the point of the Armenian emigration. The Saxon Chronicle
positively asserts, that "the original inhabitants of Britain came
from Armenia, and that they seated themselves in the south-west part
of the island:"

The Saxon Chronicle is said to have been written by a monk, at
Lincoln: And similar chronicles were kept by the most learned monks in
several monasteries throughout the kingdom. The monk of Lincoln seems
to have been well informed: And there is no more reason to dispute the
authority of the passage before us, than that of any other part of the
book. For it is not a conjecture: It is not hazarded as an opinion: It
is a positive assertion and relation of an event, as a thing generally
known and understood to be true."

Polwhele also discusses similarities between early Armenian and Briton
living habits including caverns which are found in abundance in Devon.
He says:

"That these caverns were places of temporary residence in the time of
war, wither the Danmonii retired, for the security of their persons,
their domestic furniture, and their warlike stores, I should judge not
only from the disposition of the Aborigines so congenial with the
oriental turn of mind, but from the resemblance, also of our Danmonian
excavations to those in Scotland and Ireland, which are allowed to be
military retreats. But, whatever was their use, they were very similar
to the caves of the eastern nations, and especially of Armenia."

"That the Asiatics, from whose country the Danmonians are supposed to
have emigrated, " made them the dens which are in the mountains, and
caves, and strongholds," is evident, both from sacred and profane
history. There is a remarkable passage in Xenophon, describing the
caves of the Armenians. Xenophon informs us, "that the houses of the
Armenians were under-ground -- that the mouth or entrance to these
subterraneous habitations was like that of a well, but that
underneath, they werewide and spreading -- that there were ways for the
cattle to enter, but that the men went down by stairs." In Armenia, at
this day, the people dwell in caverns. "In a narrow valley (says
Leonhaut Rauwolf ) lying at the bottom of an ascent, we found a great
stable, wherein we went. This was quite cut into the hill : And so was
that wherein we lodged the night before. So that you could see nothing
of it, but only the entrance. For they are commonly so in these hilly
countries, under-ground, that the caravans may safely rest there, and
defend themselves from the cold in the winter. This stable,
twenty-five paces long, and twenty broad, was cut out of a rock."
These descriptions of the Armenian caves agree, in several points,
with that of the cave near Plymouth, as well as the Cornish caverns.
Xenophon's cave is fub-terraneous : So is that near Plymouth : The
apertures of both are narrow : And both caverns are, afterwards,
sufficiently capacious."

He goes on to describe place names: "I observe that the caves in Devon
(so like the under-ground habitations of Armenia) are mostly in the
Southams, at no great distance from the river Arme, or the town of
Armenton, on the banks of the Arme, where the emigrators from Armenia
are supposed to have first settled."

Anglo-Saxon Chronicle reads: "The first inhabitants were the Britons,
who came from Armenia, and first peopled Britain southward."

The book further describes many common characteristics of Britons and
Armenians. From the warlike spirit, clothing, social structures, names
and living habits. Vallancy, on the authority of Sir George Yonge adds
that "in S.W. of Dovenshire, there is still a river, called Armine ;
and the town and hundred are called Armine-ton to this day."

Polwhele finally concludes as follows:

"That the settlers in this island, were not a colony from Gaul, has
been proved, on every view of the subject. And the vulgar theory of
the original European plantations, would be abandoned, I think, on all
hands, after a candid and liberal investigation of it. To such an
investigation I should be happy to excite the learned. From the
dubiousness of the common theory, I had a right to form a new
hypothesis. And I have imagined a rapid emigration to these islands,
for the most part by sea, from Armenia... I have not grounded my
supposition on the sole authority of the Saxon Chronicle. The
evidence of Caesar himself, is strong in my favor : And the voice of
the Greek historians and geographers is still more decisive. But the
character of the orientals, so strikingly contrasted with that of the
Europeans, and yet according with that of the aboriginal Danmonii,
seems almost to determine the controversy. The orientals, at the time
of their first emigration into different countries, were imprest with
various traits of character ; such as we have discovered in their
modes of settlement, their civil government, their religion, their
commercial communications, their language and learning, their genius
and their customs. The wandering spirit and patriarchal policy of
Armenia."



http://peopleofar.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/from-armenia-to-devonshire/

[Yervant1]

Why we should remember the Armenians

 

Next year sees the centenary of the Armenian genocide. Armenia has crucial links to the development of British and world civilisation as Professor Hovhanness I. Pilikian explains.

Until Darwin’s regime-change in the mid-nineteenth century, when Western beliefs began the move from faith in the Bible to mass atheism, most of the Western world believed in the Noah’s Flood story. Mankind was saved and moved down the mountains of Ararat, in the heartland of ancient Armenia. Our civilisation has its roots in old Armenia, and it is wise to remember it.

In 1915, Armenians witnessed the forgotten holocaust. The Ottoman Young Turks massacred 1.5 million Armenians on state-organized death marches to Der-Zor in the Syrian Desert. There, the saintly journalist Robert Fisk has discovered skulls and bones in numberless caves as recently as the spring of 1993. It was Adolf Hitler who once famously said "who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?".

It is important to remember, and to log, the important connections between us and our Armenian forebears. Most European nations, precisely for the same reason, stretch their ancestry back to Noah’s Ark stopping on the Mountains of Ararat. Closer to home, according to Herodotus the Celts originated from Armenia. In all the world, two places alone carry the same name suggestive of origin and national identity: a city in the present day Armenia is named CYMRY, pronounced exactly as the Welsh name of Wales!

Few Englishmen (and women) would know that two of the manuscripts of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles – the oldest historical records of England from the 9th century AD – begin with the matter-of-fact statement “the first inhabitants of these British lands, they come from Armenia”. According to Herodotus, the Celts originated from Armenia (which supports the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles.

 

http://www8.open.ac.uk/platform/files/platform/imagecache/thumbnail_medium/armenia-cartoon-by-Catherine-Pain.jpg

Victorian bibles were full of footnotes placing Paradise in Armenia, as the cradle of Adam and Eve. In the late nineteenth century scholars panicked and declared that actually Armenia was a corruption of Armorica (in Northern France). Darwin’s theory of Evolution saw to it that the babies (the records of many historical facts specifically in the Old Testament) were thrown out with the bath water.

 

In today’s independent Armenia (which was one of the Soviet Republics) over 150 political parties were created, officially registered by the Government bureaucracy. A criminal phenomenon like Nazism (or its mother Fascism) can never arise in Armenia, because Armenians, as probably the oldest people of this planet, are intensely and immensely individualized, lacking any group mentality and/or psychology, even frequently to the detriment of their national interest in modern times – especially during the rise of Nationalism in nineteenth century Europe. If you can get three Armenians together to form a political party, they will produce a dozen – three each (= nine), and another three for insurance purposes.

Hegel argued that history marches towards individuation and total freedom. Armenians seem to have achieved that kind of individual freedom already, which explains their appearance lurking about in history, pioneering most innovative, radical and revolutionary processes arousing the genocidal envy of other nations. There are numerous examples of the debt we owe to the Armenians.

There is now very little doubt that farming arose in ancient Anatolian Armenia around possibly 7,000 BC. The historical reality of the Promethean myth (the Titan-Robber-God of Fire punished on the mountains of Caucasian Armenia) suggests that the discovery of Fire as a great cultural advance occurred there.

As early as 301 AD, the Armenians converted to Christianity with King and country as the very first in history, which was yet another huge step forward for mankind drowned in a sea of pagan polytheism. The Armenians thus invented the first national church, which Henry VIII could not manage in the 16th century.

The Poet Lord Byron was suddenly gripped by his acquaintance with the historical sufferings of the Armenians. He got to know the Mekhitarist Monks on a tiny island named St. Lazar, off Venice. He even wrote an Armenian grammar (to teach the Brits Armenian), forcing his London publisher John Murray to publish it. His eventual later attachment to the Greek national cause was inspired by his acquaintance with the Armenian sufferings.

The Armenians played a pioneering role in the downfall of Communism in Soviet Russia. The virtual Radio Yerevan was the cradle of the socio-political humour which attacked the system; and here is a most glorious, sharp and quick-witted example of it. Lady-teacher asks an infant – what is the difference between Capitalism and Communism? The child answers – capitalism is the exploitation of Man by Man, and Communism is its exact reverse!

A democratic election in the Armenian enclave of Karabagh (donated to Azerbaijan by Stalin) was the first to declare a wish to exit the Soviet Federation of Republics. The pioneering majority Armenian vote also sounded the knell of the destruction of the Union itself, simultaneously provoking the enmity and warmongering of Azerbaijan, still even today threatening Armenia with a fresh genocidal war.

In global culture, the Armenian, Rouben Mamoulian, the Hollywood film-director created the iconic Garbo-image, and produced the very first feature-length Technicolor film in 1935 (Becky Sharp). The creator of the Soviet computer, Serguey Merkelian, was a young mathematical genius from Soviet Armenia. Gary Kasparov, the Soviet Armenian world Chess Champion, was also the first to be invited to play against the most powerful US computers, and defeated them each time for several years, until he was finally defeated by the latest developments in technology.

What the future shall bring to the Armenians as country and people only God knows of course. Who knows, if climate change destroys the globe through money-greed and idiocy, it is likely that mankind shall once again descend from the same mountain of Ararat. If we forget the Armenians we forget our history and imperil our future.

Hovhanness I. Pilikian

4 February 2014

[Arpa]

Only if our linguists would spend half as much time and energy minding the DISASTROUS state of OUR LANGUAGE , both in the Homeland and the Diaspora, both of which are at the brink of EXTINCTION, reach across the borders of a dozen miles, to the Diasporan Armenian, and visa versa, rather than waste everyones time talking about the languages of people a million miles away!!??

[Yervant1]

THE BASQUE COUNTRY AND ARTSAKH CONSIDER ESTABLISHMENT OF SUSTAINABLE RELATIONS

11:05 30.06.2014

Artsakh Republic President Bako Sahakyan received member of the
Spanish Senate Urko Aiartza, NKR President's Press Office reported.

A number of issues related to the cooperation between Artsakh and
Europe, the Azerbaijani-Karabakh conflict settlement and realization
of the right of nations to self-determination were touched upon during
the meeting.

Special attention was paid to the issues of establishing sustainable
ties between the Basque Country and Artsakh.

http://www.armradio.am/en/2014/06/30/the-basque-country-and-artsak-consider-establishment-of-sustainable-relations/

[Yervant1]

http://www.bbc.com/t...FaFqOh-1Qgxzbo\

Though the Basque and Armenian languages share no superficial resemblances, they do share a baffling litany of words and grammatical elements.

By Justin Calderon
4 June 2019
A few steps from the entrance to the Cathedral of the Good Shepherd, one of San Sebastian’s most visible landmarks with its sky-piercing gothic spire, lies a simple, two-faced earthen slab. In this corner of Spain’s Basque Country, it seems out of place: carved on one side with an Apostolic cross and on the other with a mysterious-looking, non-Latin alphabet.

The letters are certainly not Euskara, also known as Basque, an enigmatic European language famous for the absence of any clear links to living linguistic relatives. Rather, this Armenian khachkar (a cross-bearing memorial stele) was placed in central San Sebastian in 2017 by the city’s modern Armenian community to commemorate the centennial of the mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks, which the Basque Country parliament is one of five parliaments in Spain to officially recognise.

There is a surprising reason for the camaraderie between these two small and distant ethnic groups that are from opposite sides of Europe. Though their languages indicate no superficial resemblance – even the scripts look comparatively alien to one another – they share a baffling litany of words and grammatical elements that are acknowledged by both Armenian and Basque scholars.

In San Sebastian, Spain, a khachkar symbolises close ties between the Basque and Armenian communities (Credit: Credit: Justin Calderón)
In San Sebastian, Spain, a khachkar symbolises close ties between the Basque and Armenian communities (Credit: Justin Calderón)
When I first saw the Armenian khachkar, I had just arrived from Biarritz in French Basque Country, where the Association AgurArménie (Armenian-Basque association) similarly trumpets a strong friendship between the two ostensibly distinct groups. What’s more, as I clumsily rolled past the memorial with suitcase in hand, I noted that San Sebastian’s khachkar looked familiar. In the Basque Museum in Bayonne, a short distance inland from Biarritz, I’d seen medieval Basque funerary steles that bore artistic motifs with striking similarities to the one in San Sebastian.

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Was this just coincidence? Many Armenians believe these similarities are not. Contrary to the popular belief that Basques are a cultural island, the Armenia-origin theory claims linguistic, toponymic, mythological and even DNA links between Armenians and Basques. Though this theory goes back centuries, it was most recently reinvigorated by Armenian linguist Vahan Sargsyan, who published numerous books and studies on the subject, including a first-ever Armenian-Basque dictionary in 2001.

It’s a topic not without controversy. The dominantly upheld theory by many Basques, including on their government tourism site, is that their ethno-linguistic origin is isolated. This means their language and DNA are unique – and is thought to derive directly from hunter-gathers who came to this area long before Neolithic farming entered the region 7,500 years ago.

However, in 2015, DNA testing by population geneticist Mattias Jakobsson of Uppsala University in Sweden put a dent into this theory when his team found strong DNA matches between skeletons of Neolithic Iberian farmers, which date to 5,500 to 3,500 years ago, and modern day Basques, according to Science Magazine. But the discovery hasn’t brought closure. The researchers also conceded that they couldn’t “entirely rule out the possibility that Basque still has its origins in a hunter-gatherer language that was retained and carried along as farming spread throughout Iberia” – which leaves the mystery unsolved.

The Armenia-origin theory claims linguistic, toponymic, mythological and even DNA links between Armenians and Basques (Credit: Credit: David Kilpatrick/Alamy)
The Armenia-origin theory claims linguistic, toponymic, mythological and even DNA links between Armenians and Basques (Credit: David Kilpatrick/Alamy)
What makes the Armenian-Basque theory intriguing is that it has long been supported by linguistic research, first in an article by British Basque linguist Edward Spencer Dodgson in 1884, and then by studies from German philologist Joseph Karst in 1928, who discovered more than 300 Basque-Armenian lexical, grammatical and phonetic matches, including tegi (place), and zat (separate in Basque)/zati (separate in Armenian).

More contemporarily, Sargsyan’s collaborative work in 1998 with Armenian and Basque linguists identified almost 600-shared parallel words between the two languages, which Sargsyan suggested were introduced through metallurgy and farming via an ancient migration of Armenians to this area. “It’s no accident that the Armenian and Basque languages have a number of almost identical words relating to agriculture,” he wrote in a 2006 article in Yerevan Magazine, referring to the shared words ardi (sheep), urti (water-bearing) and gari (millet in Euskara; barley in Armenian).

I was curious to test out the Armenian-Basque lexicon to see if it was mutually intelligible, so I set out to question Euskara speakers on both sides of the Spanish-French border.

The Armenian and Basque languages share a large number of words related to agriculture (Credit: Credit: Ainara Garcia/Alamy)
The Armenian and Basque languages share a large number of words related to agriculture (Credit: Ainara Garcia/Alamy)
From Bayonne to Bilbao, the Basque region, as seen from several train seats, is a land of brilliant greenery that traverses thick beds of grass and misty mountaintops. It is this land that provided for early Basque pastoralists, and its long coastline for fishermen, both of which are traditions still upheld strongly today. While 90% of Spaniards live in big cities, making the country one of the most depopulated in Europe, contrarily the majority of the Spanish Basque Country’s more than two million people still live a rural or suburban lifestyle.

This strong anchor to village life has created numerous dialects, and in Basque public schools and institutions, a standardised Euskara, called batua, is employed.

I showed Manex Otegi, a San Sebastian native I met through my holiday rental, a list of 26 shared Armenian-Basque words from Sargsyan’s compilation. “It is Basque, but it’s a bit weird; it seems to be really old,” he said, referring to the list. “Only six words on this list are batua,” he added, pointing out the Armenian-Basque words zati (separate) and txar (evil). “I’m not sure where they [others] come from and I guess that the ones that I’m not familiar with is because they are very old and maybe have been lost because the lack of use over the years and small population.”

I repeated the same questioning with some Armenian friends in Bayonne, who recognised just one word on the list, the word for sheep (ardi), as an antiquated Armenian word.

The majority of the Spanish Basque Country’s population still lives a rural or suburban lifestyle (Credit: Credit: Hemis/Alamy)
While 90% of Spaniards live in big cities, the majority of the Spanish Basque Country’s population still lives a rural or suburban lifestyle (Credit: Hemis/Alamy)
Gauging from conversations on trains and pintxo bars, and later with academics, it seems most shared Armenian-Basque words are obsolete and no longer part of either modern language.

Unfortunately, there are no known living speakers fluent in both languages, and Sargsyan, who was self-taught in Euskara, passed away after a sudden heart attack in 2011 at the age of 54. According to his daughter Arevik, he left behind hundreds of flash cards of additional shared words, which have yet to be published.

But how did two isolated ethno-linguistic cultures share so many words with one another? Multiple academics – both Armenian and Basque – including Basque linguist Charles Videgain, kept pointing me to Bilbao, where the Euskaltzaindia (Royal Academy of the Basque Language) is located, to speak with the preeminent minds on the history of the Basque language.

A strong anchor to village life in Basque Country has created numerous dialects (Credit: Credit: Jerónimo Alba/Alamy)
A strong anchor to village life in Basque Country has created numerous dialects (Credit: Jerónimo Alba/Alamy)
In Bilbao, however, every scholar I spoke with officially rejected any link between Basques and peoples from the Caucasus (including Armenians or Georgians). Xabier Kintana, head director at the Euskaltzaindia, told me that Sargsyan’s list of shared Armenian-Basque words “are taken very randomly from the different modern dialects of the Basque language” and “are surely old loans of Latin, Celtic and other languages, in their time neighbours of the Basque, which invalidates their comparison.”

He insisted that in order for such a study to successfully find a shared origin, comparisons would need to be made between the ancient forms of both languages. This would strip away borrowings from other languages, both in the Basque case (Latin, Iberian, Celtiberian, etc) and Armenian (Arabic, Turkish, Syriac, etc). However, comparing ancient languages depends on often very tiny sample sizes from archaeological digs, meaning getting a complete picture is often impossible.

Even if a language connection is found, ultimately solid physical evidence linking the two peoples is absent. “The only relationship between these peoples is the similarity of some words,” Basque archaeologist Mertxe Urteaga told me. “There is no [archaeological] proof of the Armenian presence in the Basque Country and Navarra.”

Mertxe Urteaga: “There is no archaeological proof of the Armenian presence in the Basque Country” (Credit: Credit: Hemis/Alamy)
Mertxe Urteaga: “There is no archaeological proof of the Armenian presence in the Basque Country” (Credit: Hemis/Alamy)
That left me back where I started, unable to find proof of a link between the two ethnic groups, yet still not convinced that two languages sharing hundreds of words could be pure coincidence.

For now, it seems that Basque’s genesis story remains one of Europe’s greatest enigmas; a rare treasure of discovery in a world already largely charted, waiting for someone to finally crack it open.