BASQUES AND ARMENIANS

[Johannes]

Khntir chga paregam, yes u tun Hayg nahabedi orere chenk abradz vor kidnank.

 

Yes Gsem pnagan e, hantibelov urish joghovurtneru, hayasdani mech yev anmichagan sahmanin, aveli zarkatsadz joghivurtneru esenk, arants anhanksdanalu, mortsadz en irents pnig shad parer,

Hos, halebi mech zavagner irents hayrerun yev mayrerun kordzadzadz pareren shade Chen kordzdadzer, lselov nuyn arargayi hamar urish odar par, gntorinagen yev gekordzadzen, jamanag me yedk mornalov hine

Osharagi pokharen juice, orinag me Im zavages.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Johannes

[hagopn]

Payts DZHGHOL kdar mer lezvi mech yerpek, voyeve meg degh? Barzabes shad terutyunnerov kidutyun e, hagarag vor iskabes gan shad agnhayd @nthanrutyunner H-YE lezva@ndaniki antamnerun mej.

 

Yes ghavadam vor hayeru heravor yev hnakuyn kaght@ sovoragan yerevuyt er hed Sarutsyal Tar@ avardelis. Basque-Haygagan gab@ shad havanagan e im gardzikov, yev yertalen aveli hamozvadz em vor jisht gardzik e.

[Johannes]

Yes hamadzayn shad IE hamemadagan parareu hed, bayts bntel te "mortsadz enq ays gam ayn" tetevsolig yev tuyl "hamemadutyunner"u himki vra, orinag Saedhyo yev Aj, indzi chi hamozer

 

jisht hasgenank Irar --

 

Qu arabereni kidlikner@ misht arzhekavor en indz hamar. Ayo, Aniv@ ipr te IE (HE) che @sd Ajarianin.

 

Isg hartsutser es te Ajarian, inchkan al lav "technicos" er lezvabanutyan mej, isg inchqan lav mardapan, yergrapan, yergragordzapan, ashkharakraked, kakhakaked, hneapan, kam badmapan er? Kider, orinag, hnakuyn hay kaghti masin? Inchqan lav Basqueren kider? Inchkan lav Sumereren gam Akkaderen kider? Inch kider academiai kaghakanutyan masin? Inchkan uzh uner yete nuyn isk hasgenar?

 

Ajariane okdvadze medz lezvabanneru ashkhadutyunneren. Armadagan pararanin mech nshvadz e.aysinkn Inke minage kidutyun Che hnaradz, ayl yeghadzin vra himnvelov hayakidagan ashkhadank gadarer e. Edited January 24, 2014 by Johannes

[hagopn]

"zarkatsum" parrn al haraperagan e, anshusht. Dvyal araragayi der@ g'voroshe, iprev ganon, ayd arargayi anun@. orinag yergrakordzutyan mej kordzadzvogh@ arargayi anun@ bidi nakh yev araj yergrakordzutyamb zpaghvogh@ u arajtimutyun unetsogh@ bidi voroshe. Yevs meg orinag, Im gardzikovs, Sumererenin antzer e Agar parr@ hayerenen, yev voch te hagarag ughutyamb.

[hagopn]

Ajarian@ nuynkan heravor Hubschmannin vra himnelov ir skspnagan pul@ voroshadz e Gabign u Banani tez. Yes arten hamozvadz em vor hagarag ir medz ashkhatankin hateb unetsats harkankis, terutyunner@ kidagan oren annereli en.

Edited January 24, 2014 by hagopn

[Johannes]

Payts DZHGHOL kdar mer lezvi mech yerpek, voyeve meg degh? Barzabes shad terutyunnerov kidutyun e, hagarag vor iskabes gan shad agnhayd @nthanrutyunner H-YE lezva@ndaniki antamnerun mej.

 

Yes ghavadam vor hayeru heravor yev hnakuyn kaght@ sovoragan yerevuyt er hed Sarutsyal Tar@ avardelis. Basque-Haygagan gab@ shad havanagan e im gardzikov, yev yertalen aveli hamozvadz em vor jisht gardzik e.

Sarutsyal tari avardadz jamanag artyok hayeren yev ayl lezuner gayin?

Yes vsdah chem paregam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

Bidi neghvim kezme, paregam. 4000 Dari arach gertam, sagayn 1-2 million Dari arach chem yertar.

[hagopn]

Arten kidenk vor 50000 dari araj pavagan zarkatsadz arvest yev gron gar. Dordogne yev Chauvet karayrner@ past en. Ayo, yes g'gardzem vor nakhalezu, pavaganin zarkatadz, koyutyun uner. Hayeren@, avelin, uni pazmativ nostratic, pnadzin, pnutyan hed ughigh gab unetzogh, parrabashar.

 

Yev hayasdani zhayrabadgerayin kanag@ ahreli medz yev khid e, vor gabatsutse hin zarkatsum, patzi Gobekli Tepe-i 14000 amya medz dajarayin complex@.

Edited January 24, 2014 by hagopn

[hagopn]

Milionavor darva masin che khosk@. Hayasdan@ unetzav, @sd abatsuytsnerun, arachin Nor Kare Tar@, gazmagerbvadz kyughadndesutyan u yergrakordzutyan arajin abatsuytsner@. Shan @ndelatsum@ u Shan hed gabvadz gron u taghman araroghutyun. Shan@ @ndelatsum@ part ashkhatanq er vor tuyl dvav kisherayin vakheren azad abril u tseragayin kyughadndesutyamb spaghil.

 

Hayasdan@ yev mod shrchagayq yevs unetsav hnakuyn Bghintsi Tar u arajin Yergatya Tar. Menq miayn bedk uninq modavorabes 14000 dari yertal u desnel vor gar medz zarkatsum tebi kaghakagirt kyanq, payts aveli Confederate modelov. Getronatsadz bedutyun chigar. Bedk@ chigar. Havanapar @nthanur azkayin inqnutyan harts@ zud ynetatranq e u anhavanagan, payts azkaktsagan gab@ @llal@ @nthanur pnaghcutyan mej shad havanagan er. Yes g'gardzem vor menq uneyinq, shad hinuts, Celteru nman azka-kaghakagan model.

Edited January 24, 2014 by hagopn

[Arpa]

Սիրելիներ Յագոբ եւ Օհաննէս , ինչու՞ Լատինատառ եք գրում: Մանաւանդ բօլսա- թրքա հայ հնչունականով՞: Ինչպէս գրագէտ դառնայ kraked եւ ոչ graget: Յագոբը ընտիր Հայերէն գիտէ, կը կարդայ եւ կը գրէ, թէեւ մի ժամանակ ըսաւ թէ ինք տակաւին Unicode-AM չի կիրարել:

Սա գրելուս պարճառը, ես յաճախ դժուար կը կարդամ լատինատառով գրուածը, եւ յաճախ իմաստը կը կորցնեմ:

Այո, կը հասկանամ, գուցէ մեր զրուցակիցներէն ոմանք չեն կարող Մեսրոպատառ Հայերէն կարդալ: Բայց նմանապէս, նրանք լատինատառն ալ պիտի չի հասկանան:

PS. Hagop, did you download the Unicode -Am yet? If not, see where Harut showed us how to apply it.

PPS See how I spelled Jacob as Յագոբ not Հակոպ. Even if in the original Aramaic it is Yaqoub/Yakhoub. Search and see how many Yakoubian-s there are.

[hagopn]

Sorry, Arpa. I'm typing on a computer at a location that doesn't allow me to load Armenian unicode fonts.

[hagopn]

Hovaness,

 

The Wurm glacial period is a debated item, but is a reason given for the Frobenian "eastward migration" theory where a large swath of the population of the Franco-Germanic basin emigrated to the east in the aproximately 40000 year mark. Meanwhile, the Anatolian expanse and Armenian Plateau were green and warm. THen, as the Wurm ice age retreated, the populations who had grown in size in the east, Asia Minor and more so in the Armenian Plateau, began migrating back west again. I don't doubt that these peoples retained memories of former domiciles and hunting grounds and were seeking movement based on primarily nutritional needs. I also have little doubt that they had already developed sophisticated enough culture to retain long term memory, to have elaborate mythologies, which in turn would require complex language able to encompass and convey these abstract concepts.

 

We make a grave error in thinking that sophisticated life began in Sumer with the Cuneiform. Some would argue the reverse, that a spiritual and intellectual decline began during the literacy drive, which ironically was eventuallly dominated by the materialist whims and needs of the merchants and usurers to control wealth, human lives, and trade.

Edited January 24, 2014 by hagopn

[Johannes]

Սիրելիներ Յագոբ եւ Օհաննէս , ինչու՞ Լատինատառ եք գրում: Մանաւանդ բօլսա- թրքա հայ հնչունականով՞: Ինչպէս գրագէտ դառնայ kraked եւ ոչ graget: Յագոբը ընտիր Հայերէն գիտէ, կը կարդայ եւ կը գրէ, թէեւ մի ժամանակ ըսաւ թէ ինք տակաւին Unicode-AM չի կիրարել:Սա գրելուս պարճառը, ես յաճախ դժուար կը կարդամ լատինատառով գրուածը, եւ յաճախ իմաստը կը կորցնեմ:Այո, կը հասկանամ, գուցէ մեր զրուցակիցներէն ոմանք չեն կարող Մեսրոպատառ Հայերէն կարդալ: Բայց նմանապէս, նրանք լատինատառն ալ պիտի չի հասկանան:PS. Hagop, did you download the Unicode -Am yet? If not, see where Harut showed us how to apply it.PPS See how I spelled Jacob as Յագոբ not Հակոպ. Even if in the original Aramaic it is Yaqoub/Yakhoub. Search and see how many Yakoubian-s there are.

Ես այս կայքը կը գործածեմ, դժուար է. ՍՏԵՂՆԱշարի պէս չէ:

http://hayeren.am

[Johannes]

Hagop,

They were our and other nations ancestors, but I don't believe that they were Germans or celts or Armenians or Iranians.

This is after ice age a million year ....!?

Երբ տրոհուեցաւ ՀՆխ, , այդ ժամանակ նախահայերէնի, նախագերմաներէնի եւ այլ լեզուներու եւ ազգերու ծնունդ տեղի ունեցաւ:

[hagopn]

I don't think they had any self-identification of the sort we have today. The concept of nationality unity, political groupings, borders, and so on were non-existent and only became necessary when the Akkadian aggressions, a culmination of Sumerian "literacy" really, began its onslaught into Armenia and other territories.

 

Drohumner@ mishd al yeghadz en. You have a village that grows in size. THe chief dies and leaves his land to his sons, or daughers, depending on the patrilienal or matrilinial dominance model. The sons then apportion the land and annex additional territory during this vast wilderness period. As populations increase, land gets more scarce, state-like political models may or may not begin to emerge, but certainly migration begins for new land for, say, the younger son and generations. The natural consquence is the emergence of newer tribal identities, and hence the phenomenon of language families.

 

The national nomenclature of Armenian, German (probably the same name, by the way) and so on is a later phenomenon where politically centralized states with professional militaries become the norm due to the Akkadian initiative that started the game in the first place.

 

This does not mean that the cultures that eventually became what we are were not already developed at some advanced enough stage to have an identity. Mythologies clearly indicate that the case was precisely that Armenians did havce a consciousness of a tribal-national past that defies the rules of present day politics, but somewhat reminisces the Celtic model of the pre-Roman occupation periods.

Edited January 24, 2014 by hagopn

[Johannes]

Thanks,

We Can start a topic about Sumerian language to discuss it, word by word.

What you say for Turkish falsification about so called Turkic origin of Sumerians?

Edited January 24, 2014 by Johannes

[Johannes]

For example, they say dingir and tangri (Turkish god) are same,

[Johannes]

Sumerian dictionary

http://www.ping.de/sites/systemcoder/necro/info/sumerian.htm

Does it remind us to any relation to any language?

Edited January 24, 2014 by Johannes

[hagopn]

Haha, Turks give me a headache, seriously. The first source I had on this topic of the Sumero-Armenian link was Raphael Ishkhanian, someone the Monkeys Staring At The Banana considered "too conroversial a figure to allow to exist peacefully," someone the Soviet authorities had apparrently put under house arrest for his "radical natioinalist views." Apparently saying that ARmenians were always ARmenians is a "radical concept," but Monkeys will be Monkeys. THen I was given a book by Martiros Gavoukjian entitled Armenia, Subartu, and Sumer. Fascinating set of ideas which were dimissed by the Monkeys as "nationalist mysticism." Apparently seeing "saedhsyuo" to be the ancestor of "aj" is not mystical.

 

If you know any real sources of actual and honest comparisons online, please let me know.

Edited January 24, 2014 by hagopn

[Arpa]

Ajarian@ nuynkan heravor Hubschmannin vra himnelov ir skspnagan pul@ voroshadz e Gabign u Banani tez. Yes arten hamozvadz em vor hagarag ir medz ashkhatankin hateb unetsats harkankis, terutyunner@ kidagan oren annereli en.

Yes Ajarian is a student of HMB (Hubschmann, Meillet and Benvenista) who were not Armenian. Remember that Urartu was discovered by non-Armenians as well.

I have said this before. Now we have the luxury of the access to much more sources, including the Internet. Ajarian lived and worked in the old stone age as opposed to the new stone age of Silicon**. Can he be corrected? Yes! Even I, as stupid as I am see and have seen many passages that need to be revised. Although, I am sure he could read the Arabic script, he totally ignores the Arabic origin of certain words, instead he cites the osmanli qamous. I am not sure if he bases his assumptions of Pahalavi origins, if he actually can read old Pahlavi or is it based on Arabo-Farsi script?

He often refers to the Assyrian, specially when it comes to our words ending in այ/ay as in քահանայ, աբեղայ etc. Seems like those and other words were qahanaY and abeghaY in the Assyrian.

**

sil·i·ca (sĭl′ĭ-kə) -A white or colorless crystalline compound, SiO2, occurring abundantly as quartz, sand, flint, agate, and many other minerals and used to manufacture a wide variety of materials, especially glass and concrete. -New Latin, from Latin silex, silic-, hard stone, flint.

Shall we rename Silicon Valley- Old Stone Age Valley, Karahunj, Stonehenge?

Also remember that some say Kilikia/Cilicia/Silicia means stony./calcareous/calculous.

[Johannes]

I don't have .

Many words are still in use in Arabic (some of them I think borrowed from Aramaic), in Arabic dialects, in Armenian, but most words are strange.

I think hurrian languages and Sumerian are far-near relatives. What you say?

[hagopn]

I don't know much about the Hurrian language directly, only the few scant words mentioned by Armenologists. Gavoukjian didn't think that Armenian and Hurrian were related and even took S. Kramer's and I. Gelb's tentative views that somehow the Hurrian language is a relative of Finno-Magyar-Ugric, which is unprovable and probably not correct. I have no way of veryfing regardless.

 

I found a much more comprehensive and accurate Sumerian dictionary here http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd1/nepsd-frame.html

 

The one you posted above seems like a melange of early Babylonian and late Lagash period Sumerian, which was already supposedly saturated with Amoritic vocabulary. Bit for home? Sounds like it is not original Sumerian. The only Armenian link candiate at the page you posted is Abomination = ANZILLU. I have always been a skeptic of the "U" suffix they tack on to everything from all cuneiform writings. Anzillu sounds close to Anitzyal.

[hagopn]

Yes Ajarian is a student of HMB (Hubschmann, Meillet and Benvenista) who were not Armenian. Remember that Urartu was discovered by non-Armenians as well.

I have said this before. Now we have the luxury of the access to much more sources, including the Internet. Ajarian lived and worked in the old stone age as opposed to the new stone age of Silicon**. Can he be corrected? Yes! Even I, as stupid as I am see and have seen many passages that need to be revised. Although, I am sure he could read the Arabic script, he totally ignores the Arabic origin of certain words, instead he cites the osmanli qamous. I am not sure if he bases his assumptions of Pahalavi origins, if he actually can read old Pahlavi or is it based on Arabo-Farsi script?

He often refers to the Assyrian, specially when it comes to our words ending in այ/ay as in քահանայ, աբեղայ etc. Seems like those and other words were qahanaY and abeghaY in the Assyrian.

**

Shall we rename Silicon Valley- Old Stone Age Valley, Karahunj, Stonehenge?

Also remember that some say Kilikia/Cilicia/Silicia means stony./calcareous/calculous.

 

Arpa, he was certainly not aware of Avestani and its distinction from Pahlavi and Old Persian. He was also completely unaware of the absence of numerous Avestani terms in Old Persian, which is surprisingly something that would have bothered a more scrutinzing scholar. Hovik Nersesian, howevever, was an expert in the old Avestani, the Zand Avesta dialect, Pahlavi, Old Persian. His conclusion was that the Avesta, first of all, had Armenian origins, and the avalanche begins from there. "From Pahlavi" is totally and absolutely inaccurate, but is somehow the dominant theme in the Monkey School of Ajarian whose course was set by Hubschmann, more so than Meillet. Meillet at least was more open to suggestions that Armenian was indeed a more influential language in the other direction than generally believed. The reality changes drastically once you read Nersesian's treatment of the Parthian/Sassanian pantheon. You quickly realize that the Parthians borrowed much more from Armenians originally than realized.

[hagopn]

Hovaness, as far as Sumerian, that's a tough call. Most words attributed to Sumerian were done so using the post Babylonian, SUmerian revival period, which was already a late period where Sumerian was corrupted, or, perhaps, the Akkadian phonetic reading is completely wrong and that we know little or nothing of the Sumerian language in actuality. Regardless, no one wants to wake up the Monkey in the larger academic world.

 

Short answer, I don't know if Sumerian is Armenian related or not, but there are certainly tantalizing clues that Sumerian culture and vocabulary were heavily influenced by Armenian culture and language.

[Arpa]

I don't have .

Many words are still in use in Arabic (some of them I think borrowed from Aramaic), in Arabic dialects, in Armenian, but most words are strange.

I think hurrian languages and Sumerian are far-near relatives. What you say?

I don't have .

Many words are still in use in Arabic (some of them I think borrowed from Aramaic), in Arabic dialects, in Armenian, but most words are strange.

I think hurrian languages and Sumerian are far-near relatives. What you say?

Վերէւ ես ասի որ Աճառեանը կանտեսէ Արաբերէնը եւ կը հէնու 0սմանլի քամուսի, լրիվ անտեսեէլով Արամերէնը: Միթէ նա գիտեր՞ որ օսմանա արաբերէնը մեծ մասամ Արամերէն է: Յիսուս Արամերէն կը խօսէր:Երբ նա ըսաւ Տալիտա Քումի , դա նաշանակի Աղջնակ ելիր, կանքնիր, յարուցիր:

Եւ երբ նա ըսաւ Eli, Eli lama Sabatini, Արաբերէն գիտցողները գիտէն որ այդ սա է: Ilahi, Ilahi lima sabaqni, Why did you get ahead of me, why did you leave me behin, why did you beat me at the foot race. Ինչու ինձ անցար, ինչու զիս ետ թողուցիր, ինչու ինձ յաղթեցիր մրցարշավի ընթացքին:

Օհաննէս մեզ գրիր թէ այդ խօսքը ինչպէս գրուի Արաբատառով:

Edited January 24, 2014 by Arpa

[hagopn]

Hagop,

They were our and other nations ancestors, but I don't believe that they were Germans or celts or Armenians or Iranians.

This is after ice age a million year ....!?

Երբ տրոհուեցաւ ՀՆխ, , այդ ժամանակ նախահայերէնի, նախագերմաներէնի եւ այլ լեզուներու եւ ազգերու ծնունդ տեղի ունեցաւ:

 

Յովհաննես, Եղբայր, Ինձ սխալ հասկըցար։

 

The Wurm ice age period started approximately 40,000 years ago and ended approximately 13,000 to 10,000 years ago, depending on location. The Mammoth became mostly extinct except for a few cold climate pockets in Asia at about that period, and the quite sophisticated the cave cultures of southern France exemplified by the Dordogne and Chauvet caves ended perhaps in the 40,000 to 30,000 year period. The opinion of many is that large migrations back to the east took place. Asia Minor and especially the Armenian Plateau were warmer and habitable regions that also offered security from many elements due to the topography. The neolithic period saw light in this era, an era that also saw Gobekli Tepe in addition to a very dense rock carving presence/culture that might very well be the ancestor of the later Mesopotamian/Ubbayid and the Kur-Arax (present day eastern Armenia and Artsakh, coincidentally) cultures.

 

This is the period I am talking about.