Mixed Armenian - WHAT???

[Guest]

Barev Farsi jan,

 

Please, expand on what being bicultural meens. Because I can know, understand and even love many cultures but I can devote myself only to one. Because being EVERYBODY is same with being NOBODY.

Here is an example: When I listen to "Summertime" and "The House of Rising sun" I love USA, when listen to "Moscow nights" I love Russia, when I listen to "Gyulisangam" I love Iran, when I listen to Sharl Aznavour I love France, when I listen to "Greensleavs" I love England...

But only "Dele yaman" makes to shiver from rage and dispare and the same time. This is when it hits my soul and not the feelings.

 

Regards

[Guest]

Sireli Berj

 

I guess you have to be a half breed like me to truly understand what it is to be bicultural. Its a "ges odar/ ges hay thang!"(sic). I am devoted to the U.S.A first and formost in the sense of who I would go off to battle for. I have never tried to hide that. I live here, my passport says U.S.A on it and I earn my bread and butter here. But Armenian is in my soul. I can't explain it. You seem to always define everything in terms of a war. I look at it in living your everyday life. Maybe because I live without the spectre of the Turks and Azeris ready to pounce that I have this luxury. I have Armenian values, yes despite my being portrayed as a decadent western liberal. Whenever I have food on me, even a dry cookie, I offer it to those around me. That's the Armenian in me. I feel guilty when I waste because I know of the suffering and famine that my ancestors suffered, I honor them by using only what I need. That's the Armenian(and also the American Indian) in me. I am very proud of being Armenian, I tell everyone I encounter that I come from a race with a rich culture. I know to you it seems like I have conflicting allegiances, and I guess I do, but that is me, that is who I am, Astvatz inzi esensa horinel!

[Guest]

Barev Farsi jan,

 

God gave us options for every situation. Try to have as many children as you can and send your tallest and strongest boy to Armenia. Send him at the age of 14 and let him study here for some 2-3 years. See what he will tell you when he comes back.

I can see that you have many feelings that make your Armenian identity to speak in a loud voice. But as you mentioned you are US citizen and you know your duty towards your country. I respect your feeling. So your motherland is the USA, furthermore, you have native indian blood so it is your motherland twice as much.

I also understand that you want Armenia to be US sided, so that you can fight for both of them. But geopolitics, realpolitic are dirty things and I can assure you that the only thing that stops turks from "cleansing Armenia from kurdish terrorists" is the Russian nuclear threat. I can prove it to you if you want. In history, every time when Armenia sided with the West, turks made an alliance with russians, and Armenia was left on its own. Look what NATO did in Kosovo. Are the Albanians happy? West used Albanians to strike a light blow in a region of Russia's geopolitical interest. It is preparing to do the same in Caucasus using either Azeris, Georgians or us. They are telling us "Die to be our friends". In Armenian it sounds like "Gna meri, ari sirem". Man, let the West try it this time on the territory of Georgia or Azerbaijan. And when they manage it Armenia will side with them very easily. I personaly am ready to die for this, but I don't want another 1 mln Armenian babies and women to die for US geopolitical interest. As for Russia, I don't have illussions about them, but it is not a communist marazmatic country now, and it looks their current president knows what he does.

 

Regards

[Guest]

Barev Berj

 

I think you are finally beginning to understand who I am and my position. I agree with you on the U.S. using other countries to strike a blow at Russia, they still consider it their enemy. I think its disgusting when the U.S does these dirty deeds. Though this is my country, I am the first to speak up about the crap it has done.

I am not sure I totally agree with you about Turkey still wanting war with Armenia. From what I have read, Turkey was one of the first countries to recognize Armenia's new found independence, and they have made overtures for trade and diplomatic relations, overtures that were rejected by Armenia. I don't know maybe I only have half the story on this one so I don't want to be dogmatic. I think both Turkey and Armenia need to recognize that the other isn't going to go away. Armenia is filled with dedicated people like you who will fight to the end, and the Turks are not going to pack up and go back to Central Asia!(Though that would be very nice!)

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve:
Barev Berj

I think you are finally beginning to understand who I am and my position. I agree with you on the U.S. using other countries to strike a blow at Russia, they still consider it their enemy. I think its disgusting when the U.S does these dirty deeds. Though this is my country, I am the first to speak up about the crap it has done.
I am not sure I totally agree with you about Turkey still wanting war with Armenia. From what I have read, Turkey was one of the first countries to recognize Armenia's new found independence, and they have made overtures for trade and diplomatic relations, overtures that were rejected by Armenia. I don't know maybe I only have half the story on this one so I don't want to be dogmatic. I think both Turkey and Armenia need to recognize that the other isn't going to go away. Armenia is filled with dedicated people like you who will fight to the end, and the Turks are not going to pack up and go back to Central Asia!(Though that would be very nice!)

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Barev Farsi,
There is a possibility of Turkey being devided, but this will happen only in case of Russia's simultanious weakening. If there is strong Russia, Turkey will always stay there for US. The Treaty of Sevr is a perfect example of this. In 1916 Russia was almost destroyed and West was prepared to devide Turkey. Then Russia became strong again and Turkey became a stronghold for the West. This issue will never be solved, because Transcaucasia is the key to world domination for the West, but there are Russia, China, Iran who will opose this severely. This is a matter of a nuclear war and I don't think US wants to take this risk so it uses the smaller countries. But if small countries refuse there will be no option.
I also think that both Turkey and Armenia need to recognize that the other isn't going to go away, but Armenian border must become a Red line for Turkey, no step forward. I don't want that cheap, nomadic culture to penetrate into Armenia and I don't want Armenia to become a relax spot (casinos, whore houses etc.) for turkish businessmen. Iran is a better regonal economic, political and cultural partner for Armenia because we can develop relations on equal basis with them.
Turkey wants to either assimilate or eliminate us, and I want nither of it.

[Guest]

Sireli Steve,

 

Okay, maybe being mixed have some advantages but personally. When I'll apply for a job, speaking three languages will certainly help me, yes; but what about Armenia, Armenians, the nation? What if every "mixed-armenians" decided to mix and mix and mix? I feel insulted when you tell me " No matter what you may think you are not 100% Armenian", like I don't know. I told you already I'm 50% Armenian by blood and 100% by heart... 100%! Not 45,67%... 100%. This means I feel the courage to suffer for my nation, to do as much as I can to help my people. I decide not to become a North-American with Armenian herotage but to be ARMENIAN... only Armenian and it has nothing to do with age, I have thought about this quite a lot.

I don't think Berj really needs to be half-Armenian to understand you or me, it's not a complex thing. He says, "I can devote myself only to one (culture)." and "EVERYBODY is same with being NOBODY.", I couldn't agree more but hey! how could he know? he's not half-Armenian !

And I have become this way by myself, my parents never talked to me about this, my father never told me to be Armenian, I'm only following my heart which is 100% Armenian and I made a choice and I devote my life to one culture without necessarily rejecting all others.

With respect.

[Guest]

Hey!!... I mean, Barev!

 

Man, I was kinda sad there for a while when my post wasn't getting attention...but now, I geuss we've sparked some new discussions!

Thanks a lot RAFII Y, I will look into that website, it sounds really really cool, perhaps it'll help me on my search for a chinese-armenian...imagine if I married one? how wierd would that be?!

Anyways, RAFFI Y, let me ask you this question and please answer as honest as you can be!

 

What made you decide that your Armenian half should prosper over you Canadian half, in order to make sure that your future generations 3000 years from now will be 100% Armenian????????

 

Also, strangely I see this happening, I beleive that in 3000 years, ethnic groups will be totally abolished, I think the human race will be so alike that genetically there'll be no substantial difference, what with how technology and advanced medecine is changing as already...

 

Also...STEVE! You're American? funny thing...cause so am I! Where were you born? I was born in Palm Springs California...yup..that dual citizenship we can get will be pretty useful!

 

Here's a question to everybody who has some kind of Armenian blood running through their hearts:

 

Knowing what the Turks of 1915 did to Armenia a very long time ago, meaning the Turks of today are not the same as they were in 1915....is it that hard or that easy for you to have relations with someone of Turkish origin??????

 

Thanks a lot!!!

 

did you know my chinese name means RESPECT?

 

Respect to you all!

[Guest]

I wanted to respond to Raffi's messages.

I wanted to tell you that I agree with you 100%. I can't believe that there is someone out there with the same view and mentality as me. Sometimes you feel like you're the only one. You understand and feel the same though. That is so cool. I think that you are very strong to say your opinion even if people don't really agree. Never change that. I am 1/2 Armenian and 1/2 Swedish although I will always be 100% in my heart and soul. I don't know what made me that way because no one ever told me either. I have a sister and she says she is American and doesn't care about Armenian things, but I am completely the opposite. I guess some people are strongly drawn to the culture even if they are not full. I don't want to make it more confusing for me or my children to know their identity and I don't think that your ideas are crazy or racist or whatever. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that someone out there agrees with you and that you are not alone.

Take care.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lauren:
I wanted to respond to Raffi's messages.
I wanted to tell you that I agree with you 100%. I can't believe that there is someone out there with the same view and mentality as me. Sometimes you feel like you're the only one. You understand and feel the same though. That is so cool. I think that you are very strong to say your opinion even if people don't really agree. Never change that. I am 1/2 Armenian and 1/2 Swedish although I will always be 100% in my heart and soul. I don't know what made me that way because no one ever told me either. I have a sister and she says she is American and doesn't care about Armenian things, but I am completely the opposite. I guess some people are strongly drawn to the culture even if they are not full. I don't want to make it more confusing for me or my children to know their identity and I don't think that your ideas are crazy or racist or whatever. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that someone out there agrees with you and that you are not alone.
Take care.

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Lauren and Raffi,
Don't ever!!! think that you're alone. May be there are some low intellect Armenians who will tell you that you're mixed and so you're not pure, forgive them, because there are thousands of Armenians like me who will stand by your back in every situation ready to do everything for you. I'm a pure blooded Armenian, but reading what you've posted here, I'm starting to think that that I'm still not Armenian enough. Don't worry, I'll catch up with you guys.

Sicerely

[Guest]

Dear Raffi, I am sorry that I insulted you, I didn't mean to. All I was saying is that you seem to reject your Canadian heritage and proclaim that you are 100% Armenian at heart. I used to say that too when I went through my Armenian power phase. Then I realized that I was only fooling myself. In the words of the song by another famous half Armenian Cher, I am a "Half Breed". Berj is a a one in a million Armenian who is in this respect very open minded and welcoming to half Armenians, ( I used to not think so!). Most Armenians reject us ges Hays as being true Armenians just read some of the hate filled responses of Arman toward me on this forum. I find that Americans also do not totally accept me because I am a foreigner in many ways to them. Thus my identity is a unique one, not quite Armenian, not quite American. This is similar to the Mestizo identity of the Mexicans who are not quite Spanish, but no longer totally Indian, but a new "raza."

 

Dear Oliver, yes I am American on my dad's side, however, to further complicate matters I was born in Iran!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Proud

I think that is very sad that you would give up possible happiness for yourself with a non-Armenian because of tradition and clannishness. There is no guarantee that even if you married an Armenian that your children would maintain Armenian ways, especially if you are living outside of Armenia. I am half Odar, and I am way more Armenian than some of my "pure" Armenian cousins. As for liking Armenian music, there are many odars that love Armenian food, music, traditions, so I don't see why you couldn't listen to Harout Pamboukjian.

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Yes farsisteve, there are lots of odars who like to enjoy the things Armenian culture has to offer, but you can't take the pleasure without the pain. Armenianness is this: suffering. Our whole history is a suffering, this is established in the Armenian sub-conscious. Do the odars know this? Do they wanna enjoy this too? Hayun tsave, hayun gyanke ches garogh arhamarhes haygagan udelikov yev yerajshdutyamp.
It will be an insult to you and to your culture if you marry an odar and expect him/her to appreciate and understand you. They will only mock you like that. They will eat your food, but will they remember the first genocide of the 20th century? Will they feel all the suffering your people have felt in order to stay what they are:Armenian ??????

[Guest]

Arman D.

 

I know your last post was directed towards fairsteve, but I cannot dismiss the fact upon how shocking your response was.

 

"It will be an insult to you and to your culture if you marry an odar and expect him/her to appreciate and understand you."

 

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by this? I understand that a little less then a hundred years ago, Armenia suffered great deals, but to marry a non-armenian would only degrade yourself and your people even more??? what's up with that!?

I can obviously see that you're a very angry person deep inside. You to not accept the fact that others do not, can not, won't ever, share your pain, is pretty close minded. Yes, it the genocide did happen, but you learn to move on, I'm not saying to forget about it forever! No, not at all, but please don't let it run your life!

Just cause the rest of the world wasn't directly involved in the genocide (In your perspective) doesn't mean you have to put down the rest of the world cause of that....the Armenian genocide is one of many around the world, where in some cases more people died...

 

What would you say if you met someone like this?

[Guest]

Arman, enkan apush yev esh martes! Who the hell are you? I suppose my mother insulted her people because she married an odar? I am so sick of you and your idiotic crap! My mom is very Armenian and I am very proud of her, and I am very glad she married an odar! Good for her in marrying the person she loved instead of some old,chauvinist Armenian who would make her a slave to cook, clean and pop out babies!

 

And I suppose Armenians are the only people who have suffered? You are so stupid and blind! What about the Jews? What about the Irish? What about the Gipsies? WHat about the American Indians? On and on I could go. Suffering is not exclusive to the Armenian people you idiot! Aveli lav gelni vor ko beranut gokhbes apush!

[Guest]

Eshak Arman:From having read your stupid responses, I bet you live here in the U.S! Why don't you go to live in your beloved Hayastan? Yeah right, you're not going to give up the easy life here. So much for the suffering Armenian! You are a typical hypocrite Armenian who whines about Yerevan while living the good life here in the U.S. I bet you are also milking the system, getting some kind of benefits or something like so many of the Armenians here. Go back to Armenia! You don't deserve to live in a nation as good as the U.S.A! Gna het, enkanes sirum ko Hayastan! Geghtsavor!

[Guest]

To Arman

 

From having read your lame responses I bet you live here in the U.S! Inchu vor het ches etum Hayastan? Enkanes adum Amrika, aveli lav gelni vor etas! Geghtsavores! Apush!

[Guest]

Farsi and Urban Tiger,

 

I'll try to explain to you where this rage is comming from. It is called a Genocide Complex. All those nations who have suffered a Genocide and are in bad economic or political situation now!!! have this complex.

Urban Tiger, in 1939 when Japan invaded China, Japanese killed 100.000 Chinese in Nanjing in two weeks period, and raped 30.000 Chinese women and girls. But at present China is a regional superpower and the Japanese are shivering from thinking about their ballistic missiles. So an average Chinese doesn't have this complex, because he knows that in case of grave necessity China can smash Japan in 10 minutes.

But people like Irish and Armenians, we have that complex. Farsi, to think that IRA terror will stop is very naive. I meen, where the terrororism is comming from. If the Northern Irish have an army they will fight a traditional war. But as soon as they don't have it they'll use all other means, because the English also used every kind of means to eliminate them.

I think that if Armenia was a nuclear power at present, Arman D will never talk like this. We need to be extremists now (again Farsi, I'm not talking about half breed or not half breed).

 

P.S. People, listen to Sharl Aznavour. I think that he sings about the Genocide in his every song. Farsi there is a famous Irish modern singer, a girl, I don't remember her name but her songs are very strange. I think she also sings about some Genocide.

[Guest]

From what I heard from some of you it looks like people are so stupid!!I hate the way people talk about "half" Armenians!!!Most of them are even more ARMENIAN than the so-called pure ones!!!Yes el makur hay chem, mayres hay chi, heto inch?????Yes aveli shat em hay hamematatc "makur hayeri" het!!!

what you do shows how Armenian you are!It's not your blood!!!!!I hate this whole thing about "kes otarner"!!!This is sick!

[Guest]

Nvard, I think that that's very true. I think that maybe because I am ges odar I have come to appreciate Armenian culture more than some people who are full. You are totally right!

[Guest]

Thanks Berj for your words. They really mean a lot. It shows that you are an openminded person and we need more people like you out there!

Take care.

[Guest]

I agree with fairsteve....

 

I think you're just all talk, and probably some weeny little rich armenian guy who gets in touch with his roots by acting out all this nationalistic crap. It's guys like you who give Armenian men a bad name, no wonder I chose my asian culture when I was raised...it was losers like you who discouraged me to want to become Armenian and learn about the culture. I'm glad I see this now at my age to see through that crap you call you call your "belief"....

 

Will someone please translate all that Armeinan? or...do I not want to know?

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Urban Tiger:
Hey!!... I mean, Barev!

Man, I was kinda sad there for a while when my post wasn't getting attention...but now, I geuss we've sparked some new discussions!
Thanks a lot RAFII Y, I will look into that website, it sounds really really cool, perhaps it'll help me on my search for a chinese-armenian...imagine if I married one? how wierd would that be?!
Anyways, RAFFI Y, let me ask you this question and please answer as honest as you can be!

What made you decide that your Armenian half should prosper over you Canadian half, in order to make sure that your future generations 3000 years from now will be 100% Armenian????????

Also, strangely I see this happening, I beleive that in 3000 years, ethnic groups will be totally abolished, I think the human race will be so alike that genetically there'll be no substantial difference, what with how technology and advanced medecine is changing as already...

Also...STEVE! You're American? funny thing...cause so am I! Where were you born? I was born in Palm Springs California...yup..that dual citizenship we can get will be pretty useful!

Here's a question to everybody who has some kind of Armenian blood running through their hearts:

Knowing what the Turks of 1915 did to Armenia a very long time ago, meaning the Turks of today are not the same as they were in 1915....is it that hard or that easy for you to have relations with someone of Turkish origin??????

Thanks a lot!!!

did you know my chinese name means RESPECT?

Respect to you all!

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Hey Oliver,
Let me answer your question.
I don't know why. Maybe because I have an Armenian name and I'm a Yeretsian. I am a lot more proud of being Armenian that's how I feel.
Respect.

[Guest]

Hello people. Sorry I didn't come for a while.

 

First I want to thank Lauren for supporting me and I am very happy you didn't become "American". We will build the New Armenia together.

Berj, shad shad shenorhagal em. I think that if I show a pure Armenian how I love my Armenian culture, how I know about my Armenian culture and how I am ready to die for my nation (Armenia) he will accept me and respect me. It's my case, I am very well accepted in the Montreal community. I think we should STOP mixing today we're not enough in number to just MIX.

And Arman. Good. We need extremists like you who will prevent our culture and important issues from being forgotten. And OLIVER, why not make the Genocide run our life? It's better than ***, cars, rugs, etc. I will die to make my childrens life better in Armenia and make my grand-childrens life even better that would be the greatest heritage I could leave them. And Oliver, you really think I ACT UP my nationalistic pride? Don't say that. I don't fake this unlike you, I read a lot on Armenian issues and update myself so I get enough knowledge to actually help Armenia. Some people say "Why don't you go with the Armenian flag in the streets while you're at it?" HEY! I WILL!!! I will not stay silent. Yes I will represent the RED, the BLUE and the ORANGE. I am feeling more and more ready to suffer. Am I strong enough? I'll see. But I have the will! If I'm not strong enough I'll make myself stronger and stronger.

 

Oliver, you say you chose your Chinese side? Well so be it. You proved my theory. You have to choose. And I don't really care wheather you choose your children to be Armenian or Chinese, that's up to you but at least they will be real Chinese and you would have helped your people. You understand?

 

Thank you!

[Guest]

To Raffi

 

I did not like the way you spoke to Urban Tiger, it bordered on rude, which is unlike you who are usually so polite. Is Arman so good that he attacks me? He is a narrow minded loser who ultimately looks down on all half Armenians including you. Remember, that no matter how many times you sing "Yerevan darstav im erebuni" and wave the Armenian flag, the "pure Armenians" will never, never accept you as fully Armenian. Please realize that. I know too well from experience. Only today, at a family gathering, my aunt boasted of having "pure Armenian" children, then shot a glance at me,her "mongrel" nephew even though her son hardly speaks a word of Armenian and knows nothing of his culture. Maybe you look more Armenian and your last name is Armenian, so it may be easier for you than me, but someday you will realize that Armenian is only a part of who you are.

[Guest]

I'm sorry for confusion, but my last post was directed towards ARMAN D...

 

BERJ...

 

A very insightful post...I can see how you're not trigger happy like most people when it comes to issues like these.

In response to your post about the Genocide complex, I don't think it's irrelevant if I appear not to know the origin of most of the rage you speak of concerning the genocide, I mean, I too have pain that in some ways relates to most of you.

All of you never witnessed the mass genocide of Armenia, and thank goodness you didn't, but if you did you would certainly lead a tragic consciousness throughout life. I may be half chinese, and chose in my youth to follow it as a culture, but I still hold pain against it.

Remember the Tianemen Massacre? Yes, you do, I'm sure, Well, I was there in Beijing when it happened, not more then 5 blocks away from the square itself, yes I saw the causualties and the deaths, the screaming and yelling, the gunfires. Did you know there was so much blood stained on the square they had to use tar to cover it up so that they could hide it from the rest of the world? it's true I've seen and stepped upon those many patches across the square.

As my father drove me to be evacuated, mass swarms of people surrounded the car, banging on the windows to get in, away from the troops who had switched from bruising rubber bullets to deadly live ammunition.

My best friends were shot at, tanks ripped through their neighborhood, harassed, questioned. My father's friend and also journalist Jan Wong was there, her book Red China Blues, details a "thank-you" from my father...go check it out..my last name is his last name...

 

So as you can see I know pain, I've stared at it in the face, but I've learned to get through it, and live on without it judging everything someone tells me about china or whatnot. At least you guys don't have a first hand experience with the genocide...

 

All this to say that even if the average chinese doesn't have rage against Japan, doesn't mean they can't have rage directed somewhere else...

 

Respect

 

P.S. RAFFI Y...It's late for me here...don't worry..I'll have a response for you

Fairsteve...thanks for the support my fellow half armenian

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Urban Tiger:

Remember the Tianemen Massacre?

So as you can see I know pain, I've stared at it in the face, but I've learned to get through it, and live on without it judging everything someone tells me about china or whatnot. At least you guys don't have a first hand experience with the genocide...

All this to say that even if the average chinese doesn't have rage against Japan, doesn't mean they can't have rage directed somewhere else...

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Ni hao Cheng shi Lao hu. Wo ji de Tian an men guang chang.
Some say Tiananmen was the crash of democracy, the others say it prevented China from disintegration. At least, I would have never supported U-er Kaisi (Uighur-Turik-Muslim). Remember why your ancestors built the Great Wall? Ha? Good!
This kind of things happen even in the so called democracies. For example, the crash of student movement in the Columbia University (I not sure about the name of university) during the Vietnam War.
Yes Urban Tiger, you know pain, but are you afraid of Chinese being assimilated or elliminated. I bet you're laughing now. If US strikes all it's nuclear arsenal on China, there will be another 500.000.000 Chinese left.
Armenians are 6-7 mln, of which only 3 mln live in the Republic of Armenia. And the population is declining now. Sometimes I ask myself "Are they leaving Armenia because of economic hardships?". No, No, Noooooo!!! They are leaving beacause of the fear of another Genocide. Armenians lived with the fear of ellimination starting from 15-th century. That's deep in our consciousness. Like genetic code.
My grand-grandfather was a 5 year old boy in 1915. He and his 17 year old sister hid under the corpses of their 18 member family killed by the turks (Yes, Farsi, not the kurds, but the turkish regular army). His sister forced him to drink the blood of their family members not to die from hunger. But because corpses were rottening they got sick. Then a kurd family found them, and they moved to the north until they met the advancing Russian Army.
Have I faced the Genocide? Not yet, but I'm living through it every second.