Ending in A

[Arpa]

Ending in A

 

Why do so many names of countries and localities end in "A" or "IA"?

Consider, among many, Italia, Armenia or even America.

It seems to be a legacy of Roman/Latin practice of treating lands and countries as "feminine", hence the ending in "a" as opposed, say, "o" or some other sound. This is still evident as we refer to counties as "she". This practice was adopted by later cultures so much so that, in the case of the British, they took names like Hindustan and renamed it India.

 

Some time ago there was a question as to why Sardarapat was named so. Originally it was a fortress believed to be "built by" and named for the sardar(governor) of Erevan in Hasan Khan, 1819.

 

Why do we call Armenia Hayastan? Some call her Ermenistan. The land of the Kyrgiz was known as Kyrgizia during Soviet times and they promptly changed it to Kyrgizistan. Why do we call, we may be the only people to do so, Georgia Vrastan, Poland Lehastan, Persia Parskastan and Ethiopia Habeshistan, Roussastan, Chinastan and Tajikistan (we may be the only people to refer to Turkey as such)?

 

What is the origin of Erebuni/Erevan/Yerevan? Why do we write "erevan" and pronounce it "Yerevan"?

 

Looking at some of the localities in the Homeland one would see a variety of names. Some town names end in -shen (Haykashen, Jrashen etc.) ,others -pat (Vagharshapat) and some others in just "at" (Artashat).

 

Did I leave out any?

 

You're welcome to add.

[sen_Vahan]

What is the origin of Erebuni/Erevan/Yerevan? Why do we write "erevan" and pronounce it "Yerevan"?

 

To be honest, I do not understand the second question...

About the origin of Erevan. As you all know according to some studies Ereb= Erev (changing in language) , uni=van,ani (the same reason), and the meaning is "Tesnum em ayn, erevum e ayn".

 

As for the various types of names in my point of view they actually should be various. Why not? The country saw so many changes and it was divided so many times by completely different cultures - Greek, Assyrian, Persian, Turkish. Consequently, the names were changed.

 

Weeeeeell, I know that it was a very general answer...

 

Artashat , I guess, "many valleys"= shat arter.

 

P.S. Arpa, I can type in Armenian, but what to type? My library in Armenian is in Erevan I did not bring anything.

[Harut]

Vahan jan, Artashat was named by Artashes, King of Armenia , many many years ago.

[Harut]

out of all you mentioned the most interesting for me is still "Lehastan"!!!

 

"Lehastan", along with "Hunastan" and "Rusastan", is the only European country whom we gave a unique name.

while "Hunastan" and "Rusastan" have reasonable explanations (we had ties with the former for milleniums, and the later has "Armenianized" (if it is Armenian) form of "ia" to "stan")

"Lehastan" still remains mystery for me.

[sen_Vahan]

Vahan jan, Artashat was named by Artashes, King of Armenia , many many years ago.

 

Maybe yes, maybe no, who knows... According to literature yes.

[Arpa]

Harut, you say Hunastan and Rusastan are understandable.

Maybe. the -stan ending is common. In the Armenian it is known as "ostan" or "vostan" which means country/land.

I am not sure why we call Greece Hunastan except that some other Middle Esatern people call the Greek "yunan" and the country "Yunanistan". The only explanation I can think of- it may have something to do with the Huns. I still can't see the connection.

As to Lehastan, that is another mystery. This has been discussed before with no conclusive results. My personal observation is that it may be buried deep in Polish mythology and tradition. Lech Walesa is a well known figure. His name may somehow be connected to the river Lech where Warsaw is located. Lech-Leh?? Were the Polish known as the "Lech" people one time?

[Arpa]

Originally posted by sen_vahan:

[QB]What is the origin of Erebuni/Erevan/Yerevan? Why do we write "erevan" and pronounce it "Yerevan"?

What is the origin of Erebuni/Erevan/Yerevan? Why do we write "erevan" and pronounce it "Yerevan"?

To be honest, I do not understand the second question... About the origin of Erevan. As you all know according to some studies Ereb= Erev (changing in language) , uni=van,ani (the same reason), and the meaning is "Tesnum em ayn, erevum e ayn".

 

Artashat , I guess, "many valleys"= shat arter.

 

Harut partially answered this. I didn't know the exact answere either until I looked it up.

Of course we know it is named for Artashes, i.e. the city of Artashes.

As to the other endings of towns and villages , "-shen" is easy, it means "built" as "shinel", to build. "-pat" or "-pati" is the same as "shen". To make it short, without getting deep into the etymology (Pahlavi, Persian and beyond) we use the word to mean ro "build" as well as in "pat" to mean "wall" and "patel" to build(a wall/building). As to the "-shat" ending, we already know that "shat" means plenty in Armenian. It seems to point to the phlv. "shata" to mean "joy/happiness". The source mentions that this is/was common in naming towns probably to mean the "joy of (Artashes)".

 

As to my question "why we write "Erevan and pronounce "yerevan"...

It is not clear when we started to pronounce the fifth letter of the AybBenGim as "ye/yech". It was originally fashioned to correspond with the Greek letter Epsilon and pronounced as such. I wonder if Russian had to do anything with it as they write Eltsin and pronounce it Yeltsin etc.

As to the origin of Erevan, all silly stories as "to appear" aside, we know that it derives from Erebuni (interchange of b to v is quite common, consider Bahram and Vahram, Biaina to Van etc).

But what is the origin of Erebuni?

I have never seen this anywheree, it is totally my own observation. It is a well known fact that in the old Assyrian "asi" meant east, .i.e where the sun rises. This is attested in many other languages such as "east","est", "ost" etc. That is how Asia was named asi-Asia. In contrast to that "ereb" meant west in the Assyrian. This is still evident in some Semitic Languages as the Arabic word for west is "gharb".

During those days if "asi" meant east hence Asia then "ereb" would mean west, that is Europe. The land od Erebuni being the first land west of Asia was known as Ereb to mean west/Europe.

Does Erebuni actually mean Europe???!!!

 

PS. I had forgotten to include such endings as "kert" and "kent" as in Tigranakert and Tashkent, or as the Azeris like to call Stepanakert Khankent(i)

[Twilight Bark]

Ion --> Yun or Hun

 

As for the name Asia, I think a better explanation is Assa --> Asia. Starting with Sumerian onwards, as(s)a meant "country, land, field" in the Near East, including in the Hittite empire (e.g. Hay-asa, Land of Hays). Anatolia was regarded as the land by the Hittites, and the Greeks adopted the word used by the locals and deformed it into the modern word. The suffix -astan may also have come from "assa".

[Boghos]

Lehistan is an interesting word, but it is not only Armenian it is at least also Farsi and Turkish (even though the currently used word is Polonya).

[Arpa]

Originally posted by Twilight Bark:

========

 

Good points TB.

This further begs the question if "Assyria" had anything to do with "asu" or, as you say "assa".

As to the origins of "ereb" and "asu", almost all paper and electronic sources seem to agree that "ereb" meant "west" and "asu"- east, except that many sources leave it hanging whether "ereb" was original Assyrian or, as many assert- Phoenician. See the URL below, one of many(A simple search will reveal many). Of course there are also those who insist Europe was named after the Greek mythological figure Europa.

======

5.NOVA Online | The Search for Longitude | Secrets of Ancient ...... The quarters we know today as east and west the Phoenicians knew as Asu (sunrise) and Ereb (sunset), labels that live today in the names Asia and Europe. At ... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/longitude/secrets.html

=====

The reason I write these is in hope that someone in Armenia, a paleontolgist, philogist will get a spark and follow it in a new light. Why would we care? I don't know of any other nation that has one of their major cities contain the root word "ereb" in it. It is tantalizing in the least.

Speaking of Armenian archaeologists and philologists, it is also our hope that they would review their reference guides and update them using more modern and FREE resources. Case in point is the content and the spirit of the Hanragitaran which has a heavy dose of politics and PC ala Soviet. Many monographs end up in a sermonette about "feudalism" etc. Many monographs, due to omission, but more so by commission (pardon the pun, "commissars") twist the (historic) facts to end in a "the Great Soviet Liberator" theme.

Even then the above publication does assert the origin of both "ereb" and "asu". Here are the exact words;²ëdz, ѳí³Ýáñ»Ý ³ëáõñ³Ï³Ý ³ëáõ-³ñ»í»Éù, ³ñ»í³Í³· µ³éÇó£..... ºíñáå³, ³ëáñ. »ñ»µ-³ñ»íÙáõïù What amazes me is the fact that they have known this for a long time yet nobody had that spark to see the "ereb/Erebuni" connection. Speaking of sparks, there is also the debate about the correct interpretation of ancient Urartuan and Assyrian text, some think that the "U" beginning of "Urartu" may have been a contextual error and that it should actually read as "Arartu" or even "Araratu". This is not so unusual when one considers that the English/Latin A will give the sound of A as in "car", ay as in "taste", o as in "bald", u as "around" and ae as in "bad".

 

There may be so much about this subject. One more consideration would be those who believe Yerevan/Erevan/Ervand may have something to do with the Ervanduni Dynasty(the House of Metsn Tigran) or visa versa.

[Twilight Bark]

I remember reading a post in another Armenian list several years ago on this very subject, and the writer (maybe it was you?) interpreted "ereb" in Erebuni in exactly the same way as you have, suggesting that perhaps Erebuni was meant as "Gate to the West", for the people of Caucasus. Assyrian trade colonies had already spread into Anatolia at the time of Hittites, and the people of Urartu certainly borrowed liberally from the Assyrians when they formed their newly ascending culture. It is quite conceivable that Erebuni started as an Assyrian trade colony.

TB

P.S. Thanks for being here Arpa!

[Nvard]

As far as I know the Polish used (or still do) to call themselves "Leh", and it is a common name in Poland now (Lech).So Lehastan is very explainable:)

As for Vrastan, it literally means "the land from the above". And it really is.

Huynastan is still an Enigma for me, but it deffinitely has nothing to do with the hunns, 'cause the land of hunns is Hungary(Hungaria, in arm.).Don't forget that the hunns are the ancestors of todays Hungarians,Estonians and Finnish.

[Arpa]

--------------------

East or West Nvard is Best

Nvard, you are the Best.

However I must disagree about "Vrastan" having derived from "land from above". I had heard that before and to me it is no more than some asserting that Yerevan ids from "yerevats" (it appeared) that some idiots claim that idiot Noah exclaimed at the sight of land. I am ahsamed to even mention that Catholicos Garegin I (May His soul rest in light, then of Cilicia) told that ridiculous story from the pulpit. There was no Noah, there was no Noah's ark. Armenia has BEEN thousands of years before the fable of Noah was perpetrated. We have spoken about that already.

 

Mystery solved.

Vrastan is from the ancient Armenian appellation of the land- Virq, which in turn is from the Greek name of the region-Iberia(Iveria? Note, we already mentioned the interchangeability of V and .

As to Huyn/Hunastan and Yunan/Yunanistan see below. It took quite a bit of rolloin of the word in my head when suddenly I made the connection of Yunan and Ionia.

=========

http://www.diaspora-net.org/pontos/pontian...enocide_q_a.htm

 

Pontian Genocide, Q&A Session

How do the Turks call us?

Yunan.

What does Yunan mean?

"Ionian"

How do the Turks call our country?"

Yunanistan.

So, the Turks see us all as Ionians. Thus, we can

tell them that we gave away Ionian land but we will

not give away Ionian water. This is a very good and smart

way to support the Aegean since lately [they have claims on it].

Some of us who are more active in politics have

demanded that we rename the Aegean Sea to Aegean Sea and Ionia.

That would be a strong message to Turkey and to the international community.

Thus, you see that there are political and strategic plans

behind all of our activities. The bigger issue is that of Anatolia

because we believe that the Kemalian structure is breaking down since

it is built on the graves of other peoples. We believe that we are dealing

with a weak patient and no matter how much medicine the U.S. Department

of State and the European Union will give to the patient, hewill not recover. Thus, other solutions are needed to the only problem in thearea,

which is the Turkish problem: the new eastern question.

=========

To carry my previous assertion about the origin of Erevan to Erebuni and "ereb", I suggested that some scholars think that the "U" in Urartu may have been read incorrectly and that in that context it should have been "A" and that Urartu should be read as Arartu/Ararta. If that is the case then the "u" in ErebUni can also be interpreted as "a" then it would be ErabAni/EreVani. Do you see what I see? Ereb-Ani? One more step forward. If in fact that "U" is to be interpreted as "A" then what happens to names like Arzruni, Bagratuni, Arshakuni etc. Should they be read as Bagrat-Ani and Arshak-Ani?

BTW, What is the origin of the anme of the city Ani? Is is named for Anahit? Or is another trick of the "uni/ani" interchange?

[sen_Vahan]

"I had heard that before and to me it is no more than some asserting that Yerevan ids from "yerevats" (it appeared) that some idiots claim that idiot Noah exclaimed at the sight of land. I am ahsamed to even mention that Catholicos Garegin I (May His soul rest in light, then of Cilicia) told that ridiculous story from the pulpit."

 

Arpa, when I was at school in Erevan, there was an analysis in the history class about Erebuni/Erevan. Many versions were suggested. One of them: Erebuni - erevum e ayn (ereb ani)(tesnum em ayn), and that was not what Noah said. According to one of the versions it was something Urarts were saying in the evening during the sunset.(about the sun) I am not going to say that this version has a right to exist. It is the first time I red about Noah!

 

Vahan

[Arpa]

Arpa, when I was at school in Erevan, there was an analysis in the history class about Erebuni/Erevan. Many versions were suggested. One of them: Erebuni - erevum e ayn (ereb ani)(tesnum em ayn), and that was not what

Noah said. According to one of the versions it was something Urarts were saying in the evening during the sunset.(about the sun) I am not going to say that this version has a right to exist. It is the first time I red about Noah!

 

Vahan

---------

Vahan, I am suprprised that you have not heard about that story about Noah. Ask any priest or anybody that is so anxious to link our existence and even our right to exist to Noah and his idiotic story. There still are those, despite billions of years of world history, who would still like to believe that we are descended from Noah hence we share the right to be called the "chosen people".

As to Urartuans saying "revum e ayn", there is no harm in childrens' games. The only problem with that is that the Urartuans did not speak Armenian. I am sure they also told you that the aragil/stork brings the babies and why the Milky Way Galaxie, the Tsir Katin is better known as Hardagoghi Janaparh.

For those who don't know that;

Legend is there was famine in Armenia, men, women, children and animals were starving to death while there was plenty to eat in Assyria. So Vahagn went to to steal some hay. He was detected and to avoid being caught he leaped one big jump and flew back to Armenia. In so doing he spilled some of the "hard/hay" leaving a streak in the sky which to this day is known as the "Hardagoghi Janaparh" (Trail of the Hay Thief). Of course the English name, the Milky Way has its own legendary story.

 

In the meantime, here is the reason why we call Poland Lehastan.

=========

The Legend of the Three Brothers: Lech, Czech, and Rus According to the old mythological, Legend of the Three Brothers, these brothers were named:

(1)Lech(2) Czech and (3)Rus. These brothers eventually went their own ways, to establish what we now know as Poland (Lech),

Czechoslovakia (Czech) and Ruthenia (Rus). The land that Lech founded was known as Lechistan, throughout the rest of ancient

Europe, and its inhabitants were known as Lechites.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9615/pne.html

[Twilight Bark]

You mean you disagree with the explanation I offered? Why?

[Nvard]

Thank you Arpa:)

But I always thought that the Turks called the Greeks "Greka"(from the Latin "Grecus").

[gamavor]

The correct name for Poland in Armenian is LEHIA.

 

As to Ereb - it is not Armenian word and the possible connections between Ereb-uni and Yerevan are just funny semantic equilibristic. Ereb is Semitic word which means West! Uni-is simply the Armenian ending and in translation it means that ancients called us Westerners. Ereb is also according to some, the root from which Europe developed, but this is different story.

 

 

 

As to Artashat:

 

In one story founded on the accounts given by Plutarch (Lucullus 32.3) and Strabo (XI.xiv.6) he joined the rebel forces in Armenia and that he helped to found the new royal city of Artaxata.

 

While still fleeing from his implacable enemies the Romans, Hannibal sought and received hospitality at the Armenian court of Artaxias (Artashes) I in c.185 - 188 BC. King Artashes was the founder of the Artashesid dynasty and grandfather of Tigran the Great). This dynasty was an offshoot of the Parthian royal house, reflecting Armenia's status then as Parthian protectorate.

 

Hannibal is supposed to have expressed his gratitude to his royal host by planning and supervising the building of the city of Artashat (Artaxata) on the river Araxes (Yeraskh), in the folds of Mount Ararat 20 miles southwest of Yerevan.

 

"It is related that Hannibal, the Carthaginian, after the defeat of Antiochus by the Romans, coming to Artaxas, king of Armenia, pointed out to him many other matters to his advantage, and observing the great natural capacities and the pleasantness of the site, then lying unoccupied and neglected, drew a model of a city for it, and bringing Artaxas thither, showed it to him and encouraged him to build. At which the king being pleased, and desiring him to oversee the work, erected a large and stately city, which was called after his own name, and made metropolis of Armenia." (Plutarch's Life of Lucullus')

 

It was by all accounts a magnificent city and Strabo (XI.xiv.4-6) writes of it and its beautiful surroundings with admiration. Strabo also records that the town was established on an elbow of land resembling a peninsula and was protected on enarly every side by the river Araxes (Aras). Nevertheless, Artaxata was captured by the Romans on several occasions in the course of their invasions of Armenia.

 

 

"Khor Virap and Mt. Ararat" © 2000 Raffi Kojian, All Rights Reserved http://www.cilicia.com/armo5_khor_virap.html

"According to reports, Armenia, though a small country in earlier times, was enlarged by Artaxias and Zariadris, who formerly were generals of Antiochus the Great,9 but later, after his defeat, reigned as kings (the former as king of Sophene, Acisene, Odomantis, and certain other countries, and the latter as king of the country round Artaxata), and jointly enlarged their kingdoms by cutting off for themselves parts of the surrounding nations..."... "The cities of Armenia are Artaxata, also called Artaxiasata, which was founded by Hannibal10 for Artaxias the king, and Arxata, both on the Araxes River, Arxata being near the borders of Atropatia, whereas Artaxata is near the Araxene plain, being a beautiful settlement and the royal residence of the country. It is situated on a peninsula-like elbow of land and its walls have the river as protection all round them, except at the isthmus, which is enclosed by a trench and a palisade." Strabo Geopgraphy XIV 6,7

 

Though well-known in literary sources, Artashat remained long-undiscovered, archaeologists misled by its ancient description as a spacious and well-laid-out city located at the confluence of the Araxes and Metsamor rivers. The course of the rivers has changed, and that confluence is now 20-odd km further north of the city site. The location of ancient Artashat or Artaxiasata has been identified as the hill of Khor Virap and those adjoining were the site of the important early Armenian capital. On the upper slopes of the hills, extensive excavations have revealed the foundations of residential and other structures, along with Mediterranean-style art and other traces of a rich Hellenizing culture

 

 

 

There are extensive excavations of residential and other structures. Well-preserved mud-brick fortifications line the N slope of the third hill from the NE. Ancient coins and potsherds can still be found. The site was destroyed by the Persian King of Kings Shapur II, and the capital was moved to Dvin by King Khosrov III (330-338).

 

 

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Armenia and the Artaxiads | http://www.cilicia.com/armo5_khor_virap.html

 

http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/Graphics/armenia-khor-virap.jpg

 

http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/hannibal-armenia.htm

Edited September 14, 2004 by gamavor

[bellthecat]

Thank you Arpa:)

But I always thought that the Turks called the Greeks "Greka"(from the Latin "Grecus").

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

I think it depends where in Turkey, and who you speak to. Officially now it is always "Yunan", since using any other word would imply that there was a native Greek population in Anatolia for 1000s of years, and not just Greeks there mostly as a result of a post WW1 invasion from "Yunanistan".

[Nakharar]

How do the Turks call us?

Yunan.

What does Yunan mean?

"Ionian"

How do the Turks call our country?"

Yunanistan.

So, the Turks see us all as Ionians. Thus, we can

tell them that we gave away Ionian land but we will

not give away Ionian water.

 

I find this quite interesting. The Arabs also refer to the Greeks as Yunan. In Hebrew they are called Yavan. The Estonian word for Germany is Saksamaa. It comes from the German region of Sachsen. It could be that the Estonians first had contacts with the Saxons and came to associate all Germans with them. Hebrew, by the way, likes to draw on Biblical words to name appropriate countries, leading to Sefarad = Spain

Tsarfat = France

Yefet = Japheth, Noah's son

Ashkenaz = the area of the Rhine valley, and the old name for Germany (now just called Germanyah)

Mitzrayim = Egypt

Teiman = Yemen

Hodu = India