Masonic Society

[gamavor]

Oh, Really. If it is so great, why it’s not open for everyone?

[MJ]

Maybe because few things in this life have to be kept non-contaminated?

[gamavor]

Not only him. The whole gang were converted... !
According to some, the origin of Armenian-Jewish animosity predates Adam and Eve. Some believe that there were secret (well, they are no more secret since I'm aware of them) Protocols of Zion Wise men, according to which in order for the Jewish Messiah to come, the House of Togormah (the House of Torkom, i.e. Armenia, in the old Testament) must be destroyed.
They destroyed Armenia several times, but the Jewish Messiah somehow refused to come!

Of course, all of these are silly rumors, which aim to spoil the good relations between Armenians and Jews.

[MJ]

Gamavor,

 

I assume you know that Jews maintain that the Protocols of Zion’s Wise Men are a fabrication by some Russian anti-Semites?

 

Could you also inform us when and how have the Jews destroyed Armenia several times, and how do they relate to the Masonry?

[gamavor]

As I said these are silly rumors and I fully agree with you that they are fabrications.

Masonry emerged as a Jewish teaching and knowledge that latter was transferred to those who are "enlighten". Ethnicity does not play any role, any more, as far as I know in the Masonic societies.

 

Destruction of Armenia does not mean necessarily, being destroyed by the Jews, but rather what is implied is conspiracy that is routed somewhere in the past. As I said I do not believe a word of that, but I thought it might be interesting to the viewers as a kind of explanation about the hard feelings that some Armenians have towards Jews and vice-versa.

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: gamavor ]

[MJ]

I don't know if they are fabrications or not. But I know that Jews maintain them being fabrications. And I would give them the benfit of doubt, unless there is a contrary evidence. So far, beyond the rumors, I haven't come across any solid evidence, and I definitely would be interested to see any evidence that is there about Jewish or Masonic concpiracy.

 

However, I am aware of the founders of Zionism having a position on the Armenian-Tuskish issues, at least in late 19th century, and it doesn't make them shine under the best light given the evidence.

[MJ]

Why do you say that Masonry emerged as a Jewish teaching or knowledge? I have thought that it has emerged more as a revival of Egyptian knowledge. Am I wrong? As much as I know, the ethnicity or religion doesn't have any place in Masonry, which is contrary to that of Jewish self-consciousness.

[gamavor]

Unfortunately, that is so true. Actually the Idea of the Pan Turkism is invented by an Ottoman Jew. They perceived the Ottoman empire as save heaven for the Jewish survival, at least until the beginning of the 20century. It was only natural to expect that these people who went through expulsion from Spain and constant harassment in Europe, will do their best to protect their future by reinforcing and maintaining the stability of the Ottoman Empire as oppose to Russia and Europe.

[gamavor]

I don't know MJ. The Jewishness of the Masonry has to do something with the Idea of being "chosen". I have come across some good articles about proliferation of the masonry in the Middle Ages among Scots, and Crusaders. Most of the sources that I have read connect the Masonry to the Jewish communities.

[MJ]

I understand. The revival of the State of Israel has been very forcefully pursued by the founders of Zionism. On its own, it is a very noble desire. However, the divisions between the Jews on the subject of how were they going to secure that process has been very significant - at least not any less than the divisions between the different Armenian factions.

 

This subject is of great interest, I think. It needs to be studied professionally. There is much that we don't know about it. Prof. Yair Auron himself indicates in his latest book that the documents that he has studied provide only minor insights of the full picture, perhaps. Readers of his book would anticipate that there is much of interest in the archives of Western Zionism.

 

However, we are also aware of some people of questionable integrity fabricating documents discrediting Jews. One example might be the story of Jewish Organizations (Intelligence Service ?) smuggling artifacts out of Armenian Museums, which was submitted to Groong, and which was disclosed due to the efforts of our Naira.

 

Therefore, when being presented with materials on this subject, I would be very meticulous in studying the source of the materials and the evidence, and would not take anything for granted if I am not absolutely convinced about the integrity of the source.

[gamavor]

Given the secret character of the Masonic societies, I'm afraid you won't be able to get any evidence about anything pertaining to their activities, plans, ideas, agenda, etc., unless of course if you do not wish to become one of them. The rumors and probably false fabrications will continue to circulate in the public spheres until the time when someone would say "BASTA".

Or maybe the rumors and the fabrications are well intended by those who continue to keep the Masonry in oblivion.

[MJ]

I think that this observation leads us to an understanding that there is no rationale for making strong statements about Masonry. That basically, beyond some basic truths which are publicly available, everything is a rumor, and the elementary professionalism suggests to leave the subject alone.

 

Additionally, I have observed that most of the people making strong statements about Masonry are one or another way associated with the countries of Russian/Soviet influence or the Catholic Church.

 

The first one needed a secret organization to justify its oppressive policies inside the country, and would've invented it even if it had not existed. If I knew the Catholic Church better, I am sure I could've suggested something similar originating from them.

[dragon]

Aren't you one of them???

[gamavor]

Dragon,

 

Are you taking your pills on time lately?

[dragon]

I'm having my breakfast now... shhhlskhhh that was a lion

[MJ]

Why? Am I too complex or mysterious for you?

[dragon]

images/smiles/converted/smooch.gif

[Basterman]

WWW.LOGIAURARTU.ORG.AR

 

Masonic Armenian Lodge of Argentina

[gamavor]

Masonic loges were revived in many places and I'm very happy to see Armenians in Masonic loges, though I'm not 'geometrically" designed.

 

This is a quote from the webpage above:

 

The SUN, this infinite light, expands its action over the ZODIAC that constitutes a space-temporal model of universal character. The zodiacal wheel can be considered as a symbol and pattern of the evolution or involution, in other words, of the deploy of the possibilities of any macro and micro cosmic system. However, the DARKNESS is FIRST CAUSE, PRIMORDIAL PRINCIPLE, which is activated and beautified by the LIGHT. That LIGHT is the TRUTH.

 

[Caucasian]

Masons have a good dominancy in Turkey and I know a sayin' about them

 

Masons rise without noticing it.

[Arpa]

In another thread Axel stated that Raffi was a "freemason". Did he mean that Raffi singlehandedly built all those monuments and buildings?

Silly! :)

Run a simple google search using "armenian masons" you will see that Armenians masons have contributed a lot to world culture, like they have built the Hagia Sophia, the city of Ani and more.

 

That's silly!! :)

 

Seriously though, as indicated above there have been many Armenians who have been members of the Masonic Brotherhood. I am sure there are many now as well. Armenian Masonic lodges probably go far back in history but the better known ones were in Polis and Smyrna during the latter years of the 19th c. During that time there were at least three lodges, Hayk, Orion and Ser, and the founders and leaders were Mattheos Mamourian, Harutyun Svajian and Serovbe Tagvorian who were the intelligentsia, cultural. social and political activists of those days. I would not be surprised if it were revealed that many other Armenian leaders and intellectuals of the time were also. Many had been to Europe where they may have been introduced to the idea.

Btw. Hayk and Orion are at times listed as Hayk or Orion lodges as in Armenian astronomy the Orion constellation is known as Hayk Hamasteghutyun.

[Sasun]

Mikael Nalbandian was also a freemason.

[axel]

Axel stated that Raffi was a "freemason".

 

I did not make a statement. I asked the question.

[Xentuk]

MASONIC PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES

 

George Washington, 1st President, 1789 - 1797, Commanding General during American Revolution, made a Mason August 4, 1753, in Fredericksburg Lodge (now No. 4), A. F. & A. M., Fredericksburg, Virginia.

 

James Monroe, 5th President, 1817 - 1825, made a Mason November 9, 1775, in Williamsburg Lodge (now No. 6), A.F. & A.M., Williamsburg, Virginia.

 

Andrew Jackson, 7th President, 1829 - 1837 Harmony Lodge No. 1, Nashville, Tennessee, an Honorary Member of Federal Lodge No. 1, F. & A.M., Washington, D.C., and Jackson Lodge No. 1, F. & A.M., Tallahassee, Florida. In 1822 and 1823 he served as the Grand Master of Masons in Tennessee.

 

James Knox Polk, 11th President, 1845 - 1849, made a Mason September 4, 1820, in Columbia Lodge No. 31, F. & A.M., Columbia, Tennessee.

 

James Buchanan, 15th President, 1857 - 1861, made a Mason January 24, 1817, in Lodge No. 43 (it has no name), F. & A.M., Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

 

Andrew Johnson, 17th President, 1865 - 1869, made a Mason during May, 1851, in Greeneville Lodge No. 119 (now No. 3), F. & A.M., Greeneville, Tennessee.

 

James Abram Garfield, 20th President. 1881, made a Mason November 22, 1864, in Columbus Lodge No. 30 F. & A.M., Columbus, Ohio.

 

William McKinley, 25th President, 1897 - 1901, made a Mason May 3, 1865, in Hiram Lodge No. 21, A.F. & A.M., Winchester, Virginia.

 

Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President, 1901 - 1909, made a Mason April 24, 1901, in Matinecock Lodge No. 806, F. & A.M., Oyster Bay, New York.

 

William Howard Taft, 27th President, 1909 - 1913 - Chief Justice Supreme Court 1921 - 1930, made a "Mason at Sight" in an "Occassional Lodge" called for that purpose on February 18, 1909, in the Scottish Rite Cathedral, Cincinnati, Ohio, by Charles S. Hoskinson, Grand Master of Masons in Ohio.

 

Warren Gamaliel Harding, 29th President, 1921 - 1923, made a Mason August 27, 1920, in Marion Lodge No. 70, F. & A.M., Marion, Ohio.

 

Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd President, 1933 - 1945, made a Mason November 28, 1911, in Holland Lodge No. 8, F. & A.M., New York, New York, the same Lodge in which George Washington, the Nation's first President, held Honorary membership.

 

Harry S. Truman, 33rd President, 1945 - 1951, made a Mason March 18, 1909, in Belton Lodge No. 450, A.F. & A.M., Belton, Missouri. He served as the Grand Master of Masons of Missouri in 1940. Initiated: February 9, 1909, Belton Lodge No. 450, Belton, Missouri. In 1911, several Members of Belton Lodge separated to establish Grandview Lodge No. 618, Grandview, Missouri, and Brother Truman served as its first Worshipful Master. At the Annual Session of the Grand Lodge of Missouri, September 24-25, 1940, Brother Truman was elected (by a landslide) the ninety-seventh Grand Master of Masons of Missouri, and served until October 1, 1941. Brother and President Truman was made a Sovereign Grand Inspector General, 33º, and Honorary Member, Supreme Council on October 19,1945 at the Supreme Council A.A.S.R. Southern Jurisdiction Headquarters in Washington D.C., upon which occasion he served as Exemplar (Representative) for his Class. He was also elected an Honorary Grand Master of the International Supreme Council, Order of DeMolay. On May 18, 1959, Brother and Former President Truman was presented with a fifty-year award, the only U.S. President to reach that golden anniversary in Freemasonry.

 

Gerald R. Ford, Jr. 38th President, 1974 - 1977. He was raised to the Sublime degree of Master Mason on May 18, 1951 in Columbia Lodge No. 3, F. &.A.M., of Washington, D.C., as a courtesy for Malta Lodge No. 465, F. & A.M. of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

 

Lyndon Baines Johnson 1908-1973. 36th President, 1963 - 1969. Entered Apprentice degree Johnson City Lodge No. 561, Johnson City, Texas October 30, 1937. Did not advance.

 

check out the site if interested

 

Famous Masons

Edited November 6, 2004 by Xentuk

[Artsakh]

HERE'S ANOTHER "FAMOUS" FREEMASON

 

 

http://www.courttv.com/graphics/ctv/casefiles/mcveigh/mcveigh_head.jpg

 

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/mcveigh.html