HR398 Genocide recognition

[Guest]

Pouring money into fruitless lobbying campaingns is out-of-date. What we have to do is to concentrate our efforts on building viable nuclear programs that would allow better "understanding" between Armenians, Americans and Turks.

We have the "brains", we have the equipment, we have the "material"(plenty of it). What we need is good will. Obviously this is the language that everyone can understand.

[Guest]

This resolution showed that Rogan was doing it only for the sake of winning the election. If he was the true "barekam" of the Armenian people he would have been up at the House floor with Congressman Pallone and criticized both the president and the speaker. Rogan is the congressman that represents the highest number of Armenians in the U.S. It is ridiculus for him not to even say a word critizicing even the president. The fact that he even agreed with the speaker's decision is outraging. I didn't mind Rogan before, but after this incident I really hate him. I hope Schiff wins and the Democrats take over the House.

[Guest]

Dear Hay Mart

But where is Schiff's statements regarding this story?

And how do you explain his lie about Rogan's visit to Azerbaijan?

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hye Mart:
This resolution showed that Rogan was doing it only for the sake of winning the election.

---

Thank you Hye Mart! Now I can justify not voting for Rogan. My main problem with him (and many jermag Republicans) is that deep down I believe they don't like all the so-called foreigners that have invaded their Anglo-Saxon Christian Armerica.

[Guest]

Dear Ararat,

 

The answer about where Schiff was with regards to the decision. First of all he is not in Congress to go on the House floor and ciriticize the President and Speaker. Second, I have talked to him personally and he was outraged at the decision.

 

I don't know what your talking about with Rogan's visit to Azerbajan, but if you clarify what your talking about I'll gladly answer back.

[Guest]

Dear Ararat,

 

The answer about where Schiff was with regards to the decision. First of all he is not in Congress to go on the House floor and ciriticize the President and Speaker. Second, I have talked to him personally and he was outraged at the decision.

 

I don't know what your talking about with Rogan's visit to Azerbajan, but if you clarify what your talking about I'll gladly answer back.

[Guest]

Here is what I have received from my congressman 3 days ago

-------------------------------------

Dear Constituent:

 

Thank you for contacting my office regarding the current status of

H. Res. 596, the United States Training on and Commemoration of the Armenian

Genocide Resolution.

 

This resolution comes up for a vote on the House floor today,

October 19, 2000. I will let you know how the vote turns out. You may be

assured that I will do everything in my power to secure passage of this

measure so that the Armenian Genocide will be recognized as an historical

fact.

 

Again, thank you for writing to me. It is an honor to represent you

in Congress.

 

With best personal regards, I remain

 

Sincerely,

 

JAMES E. ROGAN

Member of Congress

JER:ms

[Guest]

I have written a reply to my congressman. Here is my reply:

_____________________________________________

October 23, 2000

 

Dear Congressman Isakson,

 

Thank you for the attention given to the issue of Armenian Genocide, as well as to my subsequent letters. I know how busy you have been lately, and especially at this time of the year, and I appreciate your taking of time to respond.

 

I am saddened by the development of the events in the Middle East, and the lose of lives of American men and women of uniform, as well as the large numbers of Palestinian civilians and Israeli solders. I am also disturbed by the alleged “far reaching negative consequences for the United States.” But I am also angered by the potential risking of the lives of Americans in the Middle East as a result of potential acceptance of the HR596 resolutions in the Unites States, as the President warns us.

 

While I understand and share the concerns for American lives in the Middle East, I am upset with infamous and unprecedented blackmail of the United States by the Turkish officials. I think the statement of the President regarding the “far reaching negative consequences for the United States” has to result in far-reaching conclusions about the attitude and the behavior of our strategic ally in the region – Turkey.

 

While at this juncture in history, I will not hold dropping of the resolution HR596 against the President or the Speaker, I have to notice that the Middle East is going to stay very complicated and inter-tangled region for many years to come. When is it going to be the proper time for the recognition by the United States of the Armenian Genocide by Ottoman Turks? This question of mine is not intended to be of rhetoric character, but rather pursues a desire of seeing further action by the US legislative and executive branches along the discussed lines, with the purpose of promoting justice in that region, both in historic and current contexts.

 

If the Government of Turkey is capable of blackmailing and threatening the US, there should be something that the Government of the US has to be able to do as a result, other than submitting.

 

It is a fact that the current administration has miserably failed to resolve the issues in the Middle East region. I do recognize their hard work, and I am far from holding individual executives responsible for these failures. This is a wider issue. I am blaming the architects of the US Geopolitical Concepts for neglecting the interests and the realities of the region, and for reducing the entire US Foreign Policy of the region to sheer oil or Israel vs. Palestine issues. I am not undermining these undertakings, but there is much more to the Middle East and Caucasus then these two complex issues. It is a complex of issues, and the real peace may be established only if the interests of all states and nations of the region are taken into consideration. But this is not the case, currently.

 

The US Administration and the Congress have by in large neglected the issue of occupation of parts of Cyprus by Turkey. They have also neglected the issue of the slaughter and the violation of the very basic Human Rights of the Kurdish population in Turkey. They have also

overlooked the historic and current persecution of Armenian, Assyrian, and other religious minorities in Turkey. Only since 1970, about 80,000 Assyrians have emigrated from the Southeastern parts of Turkey, and are living now in Germany, Sweden and other states of Western Europe. Most of them have been accepted as refugees for religious persecution. And this has happened only recently, and not far back in the history. These facts demonstrate that the silence of the US Administration and the Congress for the sake of questionable geopolitical interests has only encouraged further violations of Human Rights by the modern day Turkey – and not the Ottoman Empire.

 

The passivity of the United States, and its lack of willingness to use our good offices to influence our ally in the Middle East region makes us a silent participant of the mentioned oppressions and violation of Human Rights. It seems to me that some states are allowed to do whatever they want, as long as they host our air bases, while some others are being measured by different standards.

 

We don’t want to see our tax payer money used to finance systematic violations of Human Rights in Turkey, as well as to see how the biggest recipient of American Military Assistance in the region bullies the US. To me, this very fact indicates that our Foreign Policy is bankrupt as it pertains to Turkey. The US has lost its reputation as an impartial broker. It has failed to facilitate lasting peace in the region.

 

Ironically, many ordinary people of this troubled region hold the United States responsible for their troubles. The sole reason is our supporting and helping of the bullies of the region, at the expense of the other nations and states. The controversial US Foreign Policy in the region has resulted in an overwhelming cynicism of the peoples of the states neighboring Turkey. This cynicism has spread to a degree that each time the US makes diplomatic or other moves in the region, peoples try to understand which pipelines or which energy reserves are dictating these latest developments?

 

Obviously, this sad situation is resulted not only from an outdated Foreign Policy, but also from the failed domestic Energy Policy. Our increasing dependence on Foreign Energy sources makes even harder for our Foreign Policy to be fair and balanced in the region. It makes us to become hostage of the established status quo. But it is impossible to maintain the old status quo of two world wars in the region. It is also impossible to maintain peace and stability in the region by the sheer force of power. The peoples of the region have to trust each other, and have to want to co-exist peacefully. They have to recognize the legitimate interests of the opposite parties. And I think, the US has to be the champion of this recognition and understanding. This most troubled region of the world is begging for new mentalities and new approaches. It is begging not for mere New World Orders, but for Fair World Orders. Validation and renewal of the old status quo are not the solutions of the problems of the region. Implementation of fair and balanced policies in the region will result in reduced necessity of US military presence in the region, and will save much sensitive tax payer money, rather than spend it. The balanced and fair policies will also promote free and new markets, which would be of enormous value for the US investors, as well as local population and the businessmen. It will help our corporations and citizens to profit from the spirit of the collaboration in the region. This is a region of enormous economic potential and untapped human talent.

 

We live in a different world. I would anticipate increasing numbers of terrorist actions directed at the United States in the near future. There are a lot of groups hating us. The best and easiest solution against these actions would be elimination of the sources of hate. I am convinced that there are very beneficial for all, and realistic solutions in the region. There is no one simple thing that has to be done, though. Things are very much tangled there. But one of the most important things would be putting of our Foreign Policy in a proper context as it pertains to Turkey.

 

One of the crucial missing links of our Foreign Policy in the region is our absurd policy towards Iran. Iran is a regional superpower, and a key state to regional stability. Fortunately enough, in our days it conducts balanced Foreign Policy, and is on the way of liberalizing its domestic policies. There cannot be peace and stability in that region, if Iran is taken out of its political context. Having normal relations with Iran, which is of enormous economic and other interest to both sides, I believe, will increase and diversify our access to the energy resources of the region. It will also allow us diversifying our foreign policy, not preventing the rogue countries like Turkey to bully us, making us to sacrifice our principles of fairness and morality, characteristic to the American way of life. I understand that Human Rights violations are still taking place in Iran. But I would reiterate that Turkey and, even Saudi Arabia, our two allies, are more notorious for such violations. I understand that we have issues with Iran, or it is better to say we have had issues with Iran. But we have also had issues with Vietnam and North Korea. We have had and still have issues with Russia. But we recognize that there cannot be stability in Europe without the Russians. Similarly, there cannot be stability in the Middle East without Iran. The times have a stubborn habit of changing. And they have changed since our latest controversy with Iran.

 

Obviously, this is a huge subject, which cannot be systematically covered in this letter. And besides, I am perhaps not the most qualified person to make such judgements and introduce new agendas. But I strongly believe that this subject requires thorough and professional analysis. I also think that any qualified analysis will show that the current ironic incident with Turkey is resulted from an incompetent Foreign Policy.

 

I ask you to use your pulpit to influence the Foreign Relations Committee of the House of Representatives, and the State Department, to identify and implement new, “out of the box” Foreign Policy agenda in the discussed region.

 

You will have my family’s moral support, and I am sure of many other concerned citizens, who have links to this troubled region of the world.

 

Thank you again for your responsiveness, and God Bless you and America!

 

 

Sincerely,

Martin J.

[Guest]

I have recieved the following letter from my congressman today.

_____________________________________________

... I certainly believe that we must strongly condemn ethnic cleansing wherever it occurs. In order to prevent future crimes against humanity, we must not forget the tragic events of 1915 and 1923, and America’s response. At the same time, we must be mindful of the contributions that other nations make to keeping the peace in the region.

 

 

The Resolution was on the House Calendar for vote on October 19, 2000. At the last minute, it was withdrawn by Speaker Hastert after a personal request from the President and the State Department. In a letter to the Speaker, the President said that it was “deeply concerned that the measure could have far-reaching negative consequences for the United States.” The Speaker issued a statement saying that “The President believes that the passage of this resolution may adversely impact the situation in the Middle East, and risk the lives of Americans. This is not an idle request. We all know that the situation in the Middle East is unusually tense. The Congress, while it has a right to express its opinions on critical issues of the day, also must be cognized of the consequences of the expression of those opinions.”

 

Thank you again for your ideas and the input on this issue. If I may ever be of assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

 

Sincerely,

Johnny Isakson

[Guest]

MJ

Excellent!

I want to prepare similar (but short ) and supportive letter to J. Rogan.

Unfortunately down here in LA there is big anti-Rogan campaign managed by ARF.

I hear good job of some ARF branches in all over the world, but here in LA they are really disgusting. They support A. Schiff, but unfortunately with Middle Eastern methods!

[Guest]

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION BY SUKRU ELEKDAG (MILLIYET, TURKEY)

Source: The Ministry of Foreign Affairs www.mfa.gov.tr

October 23, 2000

 

Former Ambassador Sukru Elekdag comments on the withdrawal of the the

so-called Armenian Genocide Resolution. A summary of his column is as

follows: "The main reason for the withdrawal of the so-called Armenian

Genocide Resolution in the US House of Representatives is the blowing winds

of war in the Middle East. When the situation did not calm down following

the Summit in Sharm Al Sheikh, and even flared up again, and the Arab World

united in a front against Israel and America. It was evident that if Turkish

public opinion was also lost, the balance in the Middle East would be upset

leading to developments threatening the interests of the US and Israel in a

wider strategic area. This gave President Clinton the reason and opportunity

to write the well-known letter to the Speaker of the US House of

Representatives. In fact, the determination shown by Mr.Clinton stems from

the fact that he is not up for re-election. The Constitution restricts the

presidency to two terms. If Mr. Clinton could run for re-election there

would be a different result. In that case, despite all his good intentions,

we could not have expected Mr. Clinton to fight energetically and sincerely

against the Armenian lobby, in addition to the Greek lobby. We have to

mention that the Armenian, Greek, and Greek-Cypriot lobbies are working

together to tear away Turkey from the US. This time it is no different. In

short, the Resolution's dismissal stems from the potential escalation of a

crisis in the Middle East and that the sitting President cannot run for

re-election. It is a bitter and shocking pill to swallow when realizing that

only by coincidence strategic partnership between Turkey and the US, which

forms an important part of our foreign policy was not broken. In the

meantime, hostile lobbies are issuing signals that they would start to work

on passing this resolution at the first opportunity. Turkey must act with

the awareness of these facts and give importance to the following measures

in order not to fall into these traps: First, Turkey has to initiate a fact

finding project so historical facts can be revealed by the research process.

This will show that Turkey does not fear facing its past. The project to be

undertaken by non-governmental organizations and by researches in the

archives of all concerned states, should be implemented through earnestly.

Then history will not be a burden Turkey and could not be used as a

political weapon against the country. The propaganda campaign is waged by

hostile lobbies throughout the United States and is aimed at the legislative

organs, administrations, institutions of the press, non-governmental

organizations and educational institutions. That resolutions on the

so-called Armenian genocide have passed in legislatures of 24 states, and

inclusion of the subject in school text-books, is an indication campaign's

effectiveness. Therefore, the organization of four Consul Generals in

addition to their Consulate duties, to work effectively against anti-Turkish

activities and form a favourable opinion of Turkey in the world community is

of utmost importance. They should be given the opportunity to make use of

local lobbying firms. Furthermore, new Consul-Generals should be appointed

for this purpose. Today, they are needed in Miami and Boston."

[Guest]

Dear Mr. Rogan,

 

Thank you for backing down on HR 596. I now realize that the Middle East would not be the peaceful bastion of democracy and understanding it is today without our gracious turkish allies.

 

Just think, had the resolution been debated, the Palestinian & Israeli peace accord may have been shattered. Thank god the harmony and serenity that now exists there has been preserved.

 

If you ever decide to rid the planet once and for all of all those pesky perverted gays, you can count on me 100%. They don't share my religious beliefs and therefore should be rounded up and killed.

 

Thank you again,

 

Toros Torosian

[Guest]

The passage from the Speaker of the House of Representatives below is very predictive of the future developments, I think. His expectation on the Turkish-Armenian dialog is what I anticipated coming out of the HR596, under the best scenario.

_____________________________________________

 

 

PRESS RELEASE

Office of the Speaker

United States House of Representatives

Washington, DC 20515

 

October 23, 2000

 

Statement of Speaker Dennis Hastert on the Armenian Genocide Resolution

 

Earlier this year, Congress James Rogan asked me to come to his

district to meet with leaders in the Armenian community to discuss

the importance of the Armenian Genocide Resolution to Armenian

Americans. At that meeting, I stated my intention to try and move

the resolution through the International Relations Committee, and,

if successful, to the floor of the House of Representatives for a

vote.

 

Congressman Rogan and I worked very hard for many weeks to get the

bill out of committee, despite strong opposition form the Clinton

Administration. In the end, largely because of Congressman Rogan's

skill and determination, we were successful in getting the bill

through the committee. Because of Congressman Rogan's efforts, the

American people had a better chance to hear about the tragic events

of 1915 in countless newspapers around the country. Few other

House resolutions have ever been so widely reported to the nation.

Jim Rogan made this issue one of his highest priorities and was

instrumental in ensuring that, for the first time in many years,

there was a full airing of the issue.

 

I personally support the resolution and scheduled it for a floor

vote last week. I believe it would have enjoyed the support of a

bi-partisan majority of the House of Representatives.

 

Despite the continued opposition of the Clinton Administration to

H.R. 596, I was prepared to move forward. I believe Armenian-

Americans have a right to expect their Congress to speak out.

Regretfully, however, the recent violence in the Middle East raised

very serious national security concerns, specifically concerns for

the safety and security of American citizens, both military and

civilian. Once President Clinton contacted me, and expressed his

concern that American lives could be at stake in a time of crises,

I believe I had no choice but to accede to president Clinton's

formal request that the resolution be withdrawn from the floor at

this time.

 

We all pray that the violence in the Middle East will subside.

When it does, the House of Representatives will undoubtedly return

to consideration of this important issue if the Turkish Government

and the Armenian Government have not found a satisfactory way to

get the full truth of what happened during those troubled years -

on the record.

 

These are issues that diplomats and historians are equipped to

answer. Congressman Rogan and I strongly urge our State Department

to aggressively seek cooperation from both the Turkish and Armenian

governments to allow a full and fair investigation designed to seek

the truth.

 

I am sure that Congressman Rogan will continue his effective fight

on behalf of Armenian Americans when he returns to Washington in

the 107th Congress.

 

10/23/2000

 

 

[This message has been edited by MJ (edited October 25, 2000).]

[Guest]

To PILAFHEAD,

 

What the Hell is WRONG WITH YOU pilafhead, your the biggest hypocrite I have ever seen. You want the US to recognize the Armenian Genocide and want to kill all the gay people in the world. Gay people are just human beings like us, have some tolerance you intolarant white washed Republican. Stop supporting a congressman that only started to help the Armenian people when his seat was in danger. Look at the facts and stop living in your fantasy Republican world, Gay people are going to exist no matter what you do, deal with it.

[Guest]

I believe this last message belongs to the Comedy thread. Mike, why don't you start one?

[Guest]

Hye-Mart,

 

That letter was totally sarcastic. I was trying to point out that President Clinton's concerns about the stability of the Middle East seem funny given it is currently a hell hole there.

 

And that any Armenian that believes in the persercution of gays is an absolute hypocrite.

 

I thought I might ruffle the feathers of the more conservative people here, not the more liberal.

 

Glad you're on my side of this issue

 

[This message has been edited by Pilafhead (edited October 25, 2000).]

[Guest]

OK, guys. Let's focus on HR596 in this thread, please. Other issues may be discussed in other threads.

[Guest]

Sorry to insult you pilafhead, the letter just sounded very real. The letter now applies to anyone that believes in the persecution of gays, or any other group.

 

Now back to H. Res. 596, sorry to go off topic.

[Guest]

Columnist Says Turkey Wrong To Thank Jewish Lobby by Voting for Israel at

UN

23 Oct 2000

Istanbul Sabah (Ankara edition)

Subslug: Column by Sedat Sertoglu: "Behind the Scenes"

 

[FBIS Translated Text] What happened? How did it happen? Why did

Clinton send a letter at the very last minute to the Chairman of the

House of Representatives Dennis Hastert? Who was the mastermind behind

this plan?

 

Let us go back a bit. Let us open up our files and share with you

what we have found out.

 

We are back in Washington and we are having intensive talks with the

Jewish lobby groups. AIPAC, Jinsa, Bnai Brith, and ADI. AJC are a

little distant. They ask us what is going on. The message we try to

give them is: "The acceptance of the resolution will have a strongly

negative effect on Turkish-American strategic relations, but also on

Turkish-Israeli strategic relations."

 

The Jewish lobby in Turkey had been flooding the House of

Representatives and the US administration with messages asking for the

resolution to be halted. The Muslim, Jewish, and Armenian citizens of

Turkey were doing all they could along with all of the State's official

bodies. Our Ambassador in Washington, working with his shamefully tiny

nine-person team, was making a superhuman effort. Turkish associations

in this country, for instance the ATAA and others, were very active.

The US administration did what it could, albeit a little late in the

day...

 

As for the situation in Washington. The Jewish lobby threw all its

weight into the job just before the weekend... And very openly at that.

The chairman of AIPEC met with Hastert and "Explained all the concerns

in plain English" and put pressure on Hastert. Then he said, "By

playing this game, you may well gain a few more Armenian votes, but have

you stopped to consider how many Jewish votes you will lose by this?"

 

Alarm bells started sounding in Hastert's head. But the aim still

had not been achieved.

 

News that Hastert had tried to find a way out of this situation were

heard at this time. He had made a promise to the Armenians. He had

to get out of this tight spot he was in without harming himself.

Finally, he said, "If President Clinton sends me a letter informing me of

the situation, I will not go ahead with this vote..."

 

That the Chairman of the House of Representatives was looking for an

escape option was finally clear for all to see. Another Jew had come

down from Chicago and put the squeeze on Hastert because they had

financed the Republicans to the tune of $10 million or more.

 

So who stepped in so that this message would reach Clinton and

Hastert would be given his final warning? Who was this person?

 

While all this was happening and everyone was waiting with baited

breath, Clinton was in Egypt and very busy. He was trying to prevent a

possible war in the Middle East.

 

Time was fast running out. It was just at this time that the

telephone of a certain individual in Israel rang. The caller was a

Jewish Turk calling from Istanbul. He explained in very clear terms to

the Israeli on the other end of the phone exactly what the situation was

and what the consequences were likely to be. He said it was imperative

that he intervene. The esteemed Israeli on the other end of the

telephone, on hearing this, said, "I put a great deal of effort into

bringing about peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Do not worry,

I will do everything I can to prevent my work going down the drain..."

 

The person speaking was Shimon Peres. He immediately made a plan

and intervened.

 

The situation was relayed to President Clinton. Clinton wrote a

letter to Hastert that Wednesday and sent it to him. In the meantime,

Hastert was informed of the viewpoints of Chief of the Joint Chiefs of

Staff Shelton and of Secretaries of State and Defense Albright and Cohen.

 

The Chairman of the House of Representatives abandoned putting the

resolution to the vote. According to the plan, he was saving his hide.

He would now be able to tell the Armenians, "I did the best I could. I

got it past the commissions. I got it put on the agenda. But in the

end, President Clinton's letter said this was as far as it goes. There

was nothing I could do in the face of this letter." The nonsense

carried out to win a seat in California had been brought to an end...

 

A tale of real lobbying for you [to digest]. Was it a victory? We

think not. The real business is only just beginning...

 

Last-minute news: Despite the incredible support given to Turkey by

Israel over the Armenian resolution, it was a mistake for Turkey to vote

for Israel at the United Nations. We could have at least abstained or

not taken part in the vote...