Medz Yeghern

[Rupen]

It is now history that President Obama has twice used the Armenian name Medz Yeghern (spelled Meds Yeghern) to refer to the Armenian Genocide. Depending on one's point of view, this can be seen as an honorable borrowing or a theft. Given that the term was used to break his solemn promise, elegantly and explicitly stated during the Presidential campaign, it seems like theft to me. We can expect the same thing to happen for the next two years. Is this tolerable?

 

The ironic fact is that his use of the term, one that only a narrow circle Armenians can understand, has given it international significance. The question is: What does it mean in plain English? By using the term but not translating it, the President has in effect invited the whole world to supply their own definition, as can be seen from the links attached below.

 

The most frequent translation of the term is "Great Calamity". This is used by prominent Armenians as well as by Turkish journalists and others.

 

I would like to suggest that this translation falls right into line with the official Turkish denialist line: it was war time, bad things happened to both sides, there were "tragic events", "unfortunate events", the "events of 1915", and so on. Other translations used are catastrophe, disaster, tragedy, etc., all morally neutral terms. But while "yeghern" can imply calamity, catastrophe, etc., the primary modern meaning of the word is crime (or atrocity or slaughter), that is, acts involving malicious human agency. Since President Obama has given such prominence to the term, without really communicating anything of substance by using it, Armenians need to pick the one word that best translates it and not allow it to be translated any way one pleases at a given moment. That translation is "Great Crime". It is the most conservative and responsible translation possible and one that does not betray the essential meaning of the term.

 

It appears that many people have taken the terms "Shoah" and "Seyfo" and "Nakba" and applied their meanings retroactively to the Armenian term "Medz Yeghern". But the equivalence is not exact and it needn't be. The survivors of the Genocide knew what they were doing and saying when they called it the Medz Yeghern. It would be tragic and unwise to lose that clarity.

 

Whatever happens, and it is very unlikely that the word Armenian Genocide will soon fall from the lips of any President, the least Armenians can do is defend the dignity and precision of their own language. I think that A. Aharonian and Raphael Lemkin would have been proud of them for doing so.

 

 

"Calamity" and "Disaster"

 

1. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/de...ay&link=173578

 

 

"Tragedy"

 

2. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/co...s-yeghern.html

 

 

"Tragedy"

 

3. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/ne...-april-25.html

 

 

"Tragedy"

 

4. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/ne...statement.html

Edited May 14, 2010 by Rupen

[Arpa]

As much as I hate to read and even less, to respond under this our most "shamefully tragic" era** general topic of the G...

Dear Rupen, Welcome. We love you and we love your passion.

Please see the definition of "Yeghern/ԵՂԵՌՆ" here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=19143&st=0&p=253727&hl=yeghern&fromsearch=1entry253727

And note that Pres. Obamia first saw that word at the U of ankakara. WHY DON'T WE TEACH HIM ARMENIAN instead?

Little do He/they know that the main meaning of "yeghern" is MURDER/CRIME.

Look up the Armenian word "yeghernagorts/եղեռնագործ"

** Where were we in those thousand years when the genocide was being planned? And now, some of us will tell us that the "genocide" happened in one year (1915)when it had been coming for over 1000 years?

ԶԱՐԹԻՐ ԼԱՕ ՄՌՆԻՄ ՔԶԻ- Wake up my son I DIE for thee.

Yes! ԶԱՐԹԻՐ/WAKEUP! When will we ever WAKE UP?

When the "procTocols" (preconditions) are ratified?

WEc are so enslaved and otomaized that when mehmet says "jump" we ask "how high"?

Edited May 14, 2010 by Arpa

[Yervant1]

Hi Rupen, welcome to Hyeforum!

 

Yes you raise a very good point, to which our veteran member Arpa talked about it before needs to be told to all the media outlets and point out in every article that uses the "Medz Yeghern" as to what it truly means and not what they pretend to use it for.

 

Once again welcome!

[Arpa]

Dear Rupen, I did see your PM to me, thank you.

See what Yervant says here;

Hi Rupen, welcome to Hyeforum!

 

Yes you raise a very good point, to which our veteran member Arpa talked about it before needs to be told to all the media outlets and point out in every article that uses the "Medz Yeghern" as to what it truly means and not what they pretend to use it for.

Once again welcome!

We have castigated, still do Mr. Obamian for not using the G word. And that he used the Y word instead that he had first learned from those f* furkish kakologist at the U of ankakara.

Little do they , little do we know that the Y word was used decades before the G word was coined.

They’re trying to convince us and the world that “yeghern” means “disaster/calamity”. Disaster like in earthquake and calamity as in hurricane?

I WE and those others knew that “yeghern” primarily means CRIME and MURDER , maybe then we will pit OUR WORD against theirs’.

Some of us need to learn real Armenian, not the kind taught at the U of ankakara, or the U of bokhu.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Arpa

[Rupen]

Yervant, Arpa: Thank you! I felt like a voice crying out in the wilderness. At least YOU are there! But I still don't know the story of how Obama first came across the word at U. of Ankara. It couldn't have been in English. Someone must have called his attention to it (no doubt a premeditated act). Please tell me if you know the full story or direct me to the source.

Thanks again.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Rupen

[Rupen]

If anyone can explain to me how it has come about that two major Turkish newspapers are now using the term "Armenian genocide" as a normal reference, I would like to know. According to all my assumptions from the past, such a reference is forbidden by article 301. I find this very dramatic.

Any light shed on this will be much appreciated. Have I missed something? Thank you.

 

Hurriyet (in paragraph 7)

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=what-unites-and-divides-turkey-and-iran-8211-on-israel-2011-04-07

 

 

 

Milliyet (Quoted in Asbarez, in first paragraph)

 

April 5, 2011 - 15:39 AMT 10:39 GMT

Ankara will be outraged by the screening of Tigran Khzmalyan's Armin

Wegner- Genocide Photographer film. According to Milliyet Turkish

newspaper, recently Iran-Turkey relations were taken to a higher

level. "However, Tehran is initiating an unfriendly step, allowing

the screening of a film about Armenian Genocide on April 24," the

newspaper reported.

 

"On April 24, Tehran will host the screening of Armin Wegner- Genocide

Photographer film," the film director Trigran Khzmalyan stated on

April 4. "I'm glad that the screening is scheduled for April 24, which

increases its political meaning. Members of the Armenian community

as well as Iranian parliamentarians will attend the screening,"

he said. As Khzmalyan noted, the movie might be broadcast on one of

Iranian TV channels.

 

Armin Wegner was a German soldier and medic in World War I. Stationed

in the Ottoman Empire during World War I, Wegner was a witness

to the Armenian Genocide. The photographs he took documenting the

plight of the Armenians today "comprise the core of witness images

of the Genocide."

[Yervant1]

Dear Rupen, Turkey is changing it's tactics they know that the genie is out of the bottle and AG got worldwide acceptance even though not in some powerful government parliaments for obvious reasons. The age of Internet changed everything, today you can't keep a secret for too long before it comes and bites you in the rear end. Now they are pushing the idea of equating their war losses to the unarmed killings of their own citizens (Armenians) in order to minimise their guilt as self defence and avoid reparations and land transfers. Also they want to solve the Armenian issue, because it's been a thorn on their side and it will be so for the foreseeable time to come, and they are tired of being blackmailed by US and Europe, but they want to solve it with minimum cost. Hence to answer your question as to why the word genocide is being used openly and the discussions about it, because it's been done by the permission of the government covertly in order to prepare the public for the eventual acceptance of it since they were lying all this time about it.

[Rupen]

Yervant, What you say makes sense, but it remains in the realm of interpretation. I am looking for something more specific. Right at this moment we have Orhan Pamuk being penalized under article 301 and required to pay big bucks to the individuals he supposedly offended. For what? For making a very subtle reference a few years ago in Switzerland to what happened to the Armenians and Kurds. He didn't even say Turkey. He didn't even say genocide. So my question is: How is it possible for two major Turkish newspapers to use the term Armenian genocide without saying "socalled" or "alleged" or putting it in quotation marks at the same time that Pamuk is being punished for less? I certainly would like to think this is one of the first signs that the government is getting ready to face up to its history. But Pamuk's case shows they are still very serious about 301. That is the paradox.

[Yervant1]

Rupen of course what I'm saying is my interpretation of events. In Turkey there are several forces operating that don't see things eye to eye, for example the government and the justice system, the deep state and the government, don't forget the upcoming elections in June for public support forces them to act in a certain way otherwise they wouldn't, also you can't forget the military and the old guard. So if Orhan Pamuk is penalised by the justice system through certain individuals doing, others won't oppose it in order not to lose public support. In short they will use article 301 when it's needed, otherwise ignore it when it's helping their cause.

[Rupen]

I still don't feel I have the answer I am looking for. I understand article 301 to be a strict tabu on using the term Armenian Genocide, not a law that is occasionally or selectively applied to certain individuals depending on shifting conditions. Dozens of people have been charged with violating it and have paid or are paying the penalty. In the past, I have never known a Turkish newspaper article to refer to the Armenian genocide without calling it the so-called Armenian genocide. That was across the board. You never found it. It was an absolutely universal practice. But now we're finding it. Maybe the government just can't keep up with all the violations? Maybe that's what you are saying. That would mean the government has less control now than it did a few years ago, which is hard to believe. I don't know. My question remains. Something very interesting is going on.

[Yervant1]

If you are looking for the smoking gun, you'll not find it. They have been lying for over ninety years and if just like that, they come out and accept AG it will create a big problem in Turkey, especially with the nationalists. If you go back five years the AG discussion was almost non existent compare that to the last year, you'll find a big difference. In my opinion I said this few years ago and I'll say it again that Turkey is slowly shaping it's public opinion into AG acceptance with minimum reparations. Edited April 8, 2011 by Yervant1

[Rupen]

We will see what emerges. It is difficult for me to see Turkey acknowledging the genocide as a genocide exactly because that word brings with it the expectation of reparations. I think what Turkey is aiming for is to rename the genocide something less precise--catastrophe, calamity, etc.--and thereby avoid any cost to itself while seeming to express regret for a certain unfortunate phase of its history.

[Yervant1]

We will see what emerges. It is difficult for me to see Turkey acknowledging the genocide as a genocide exactly because that word brings with it the expectation of reparations. I think what Turkey is aiming for is to rename the genocide something less precise--catastrophe, calamity, etc.--and thereby avoid any cost to itself while seeming to express regret for a certain unfortunate phase of its history.

I thought they already did that, by calling it "The tragic events of 1915" but no Armenian will accept anything less than Genocide. They will even accept Genocide if given assurance that it will not mean land transfer but only financial reparations.

[Rupen]

I don't think it is possible to prearrange what obligations would follow if Turkey decided to rename "the tragic events of 1915" the "Armenian Genocide". Turkey has avoided the truth for almost a century precisely for that reason.

 

"The tragic events of 1915" had already become a threadbare and meaningless cliché from overuse and no longer satisfied European standards of historical accountability, especially with the initiation of the EU accession phase. And then Hrant Dink was gunned down, a very dramatic event.

 

Now a convincing substitute for "the tragic events of 1915" had to be found. The "apology campaign" sprang into existence and came up with the term "great catastrophe" to refer to "the events of 1915". This civil society renaming and all the emotion surrounding it seemed to offer the world and especially the EU a convincing step forward in Turkey's recognition of the Armenian Genocide, one that could eventually be claimed by the Turkish government as evidence that it had fully and honorably disposed of its historic obligations. That is what I predict its strategy will be in the approach to April 24th. In actuality, "the great catastrophe" doesn't go a step beyond "the tragic events of 1915", and that's why you are right in equating the terms.

[Yervant1]

We'll see in time what will happen next! But I think this will continue like this for a while yet, till the 100th Anniversary of AG.

[Rupen]

True. A lot depends on what happens within Armenia and whether it breaks out of its political stagnation and wakes up to its historic role.

[Rupen]

BULLETIN

 

The following are two stunning recent instances in which Turkish columnists said Armenian genocide without putting it in quotation marks or saying "so-called".

This is a direct violation of article 301 at a time when Orhan Pamuk is being punished for saying less. It's possible that the government simply cannot

track all the violations and that certain columnists have decided to ignore the taboo because the Armenian Genocide is simply impossible to deny any longer.

But it's hard to believe the government is either too weak to strictly enforce 301 or has suddenly given it a lower priority, especially given the

recent atmosphere in Turkey. I would appreciate any light anyone can shed on this and especially knowing if others find these instances as stunning as I do.

 

 

In paragraphs 6 and 7 of

 

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-241509-monstrosity-in-kars-is-striking-back-by-orhan-kemal-cengiz.html

 

=================

In the 7th paragraph of

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=what-unites-and-divides-turkey-and-iran-8211-on-israel-2011-04-07

[Rupen]

If you are looking for the smoking gun, you'll not find it.

 

If you take a look at the documentation posted at the link below I think you will agree that it comes very close to the smoking gun,

if it is not the smoking gun itself. Click on all the links.

 

http://www.gomidas.org/books/Talaat*****1917.htm

[Rupen]

Let me try that link again: http://www.gomidas.org/books/Talaat*****1917.htm Edited May 8, 2011 by Rupen

[Rupen]

3rd Try On Smoking Gun http://www.gomidas.org/books/Talaat*****1917.htm

[Arpa]

3rd Try On Smoking Gun http://www.gomidas.org/books/Talaat*****1917.htm

Dear Rupen/Ruben/Reuben. We love you and we love your passion.

You are trying in vain to attract readers to your thread. We see you daily hourly trying to see responses to your thread.

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=34102&st=0&p=281175&hl=reuben&fromsearch=1entry281175

You may have noticed that you are using censored/forbidden words that appear as ****/p- a -s -h- a etc. The reason why those URLs with all those p**** will not open at HyeForum. I can't see. Did you use the word "p*s*a just like Peter Balakian who cannot restrain himself calling that butcher talaat as p*s*a/kaka.

just as at one time a friend barged in here with a nickname "atadoenme" and claimed to be Armenian.

Which part of the nickname was Armenian?

The "ata" or the "doenme"?

Please move over here;

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=19143&st=0&p=253727&hl=yeghern&fromsearch=1entry253727

 

And avoid using furkish words like p***a or ataf**k/kakafurk/gagafouck.

 

BTW. Can you read Armenian?

Please avoid falling in that trap of word and numnber games set by osman.

Please read further and see why words and names like p*s*a et al are censored and amended at HyeForum.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Arpa

[Rupen]

Let me try this:

 

 

 

1. Go To http://www.gomidas.org/books/index.htm (or just type in "Gomidas Books" as search word).

 

2. Click At Top On "Armenian Genocide Documentation Project".

 

3. Click At Top On "Our books and publications".

 

4. Click on "Talaat *****'s Report on the Armenians Genocide, 1917".

 

5. Read introduction and click the 3 red links below the picture to download the entire document.

[Rupen]

Dear Rupen/Ruben/Reuben. We love you and we love your passion.

You are trying in vain to attract readers to your thread. We see you daily hourly trying to see responses to your thread.

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=34102&st=0&p=281175&hl=reuben&fromsearch=1entry281175

You may have noticed that you are using censored/forbidden words that appear as ****/p- a -s -h- a etc. The reason why those URLs with all those p**** will not open at HyeForum. I can't see. Did you use the word "p*s*a just like Peter Balakian who cannot restrain himself calling that butcher talaat as p*s*a/kaka.

just as at one time a friend barged in here with a nickname "atadoenme" and claimed to be Armenian.

Which part of the nickname was Armenian?

The "ata" or the "doenme"?

Please move over here;

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=19143&st=0&p=253727&hl=yeghern&fromsearch=1entry253727

 

And avoid using furkish words like p***a or ataf**k/kakafurk/gagafouck.

 

BTW. Can you read Armenian?

Please avoid falling in that trap of word and numnber games set by osman.

Please read further and see why words and names like p*s*a et al are censored and amended at HyeForum.

==================================================================

Dear Rupen/Ruben/Reuben. We love you and we love your passion.

You are trying in vain to attract readers to your thread. We see you daily hourly trying to see responses to your thread.

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=34102&st=0&p=281175&hl=reuben&fromsearch=1entry281175

You may have noticed that you are using censored/forbidden words that appear as ****/p- a -s -h- a etc. The reason why those URLs with all those p**** will not open at HyeForum. I can't see. Did you use the word "p*s*a just like Peter Balakian who cannot restrain himself calling that butcher talaat as p*s*a/kaka.

just as at one time a friend barged in here with a nickname "atadoenme" and claimed to be Armenian.

Which part of the nickname was Armenian?

The "ata" or the "doenme"?

Please move over here;

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=19143&st=0&p=253727&hl=yeghern&fromsearch=1entry253727

 

And avoid using furkish words like p***a or ataf**k/kakafurk/gagafouck.

 

BTW. Can you read Armenian?

Please avoid falling in that trap of word and numnber games set by osman.

Please read further and see why words and names like p*s*a et al are censored and amended at HyeForum.

=================================================================

ARPA: I read Armenian.

 

I don't know what "further" you are talking about as providing an explanation of why the title p-a-s-h-a a is censored at HyeForum. The reference is not

given. I would appreciate knowing that one fact and be spared all the senseless raving and being told how my online behavior is being secretly observed

and my forum name upsets you for a bunch of cooked up reasons. My name could be XYZ, as far as you are concerned. What's the problem? Just state it.

Don't speak in tongues like Obama.

[Yervant1]

If you take a look at the documentation posted at the link below I think you will agree that it comes very close to the smoking gun,

if it is not the smoking gun itself. Click on all the links.

 

http://www.gomidas.org/books/Talaat*****1917.htm

When I said smoking gun, I meant the Turks admitting the Genocide without any excuses or distorted explanations as to why it happened. For us and for so many scholars AG is a fact with tons of smoking guns. As for Arpa's smoke never mind.

[Rupen]

When I said smoking gun, I meant the Turks admitting the Genocide without any excuses or distorted explanations as to why it happened. For us and for so many scholars AG is a fact with tons of smoking guns. As for Arpa's smoke never mind.

 

Yervant 1: I know what you mean about Turkey admitting its responsibility being the main thing and that it has already ignored a mountain of smoking guns to go on with the big lie. But I do think this T-report by Gomidas Institute has a special

force, something that will put Turkey's denialist propaganda machine in a difficult position, and that is good. They will undoubtedly try to pick at little details to see if they can begin to unravel what the book says, but I am confident that the

book is too well researched for that to really get anywhere. It is a pleasure to have a normal exchange of perspectives on this issue with you on this forum.