FOOTBALL DIPLOMACY

[Arpa]

FOOTBALL DIPLOMACY

 

During these historic dys of the Beijung Olympics, we are daily, hourly reminded of the "Ping Pong Dipomcy" of 1971.

 

What do think?

 

There has been very little, if any discussion about this subject here, not much in other media either.

Let’s hear what our house pundits have to say.

Among all the noise, pro and con, the latest from the Armenian side is that the score is already 1-0 in our favor , using another cliché that the “ball is in their field”.

While some on the other side are urging for their president to attend, but with a portfolio containing mainly 3 items.

1. The “occupied territories”,

2. “Yerevan ’s acknowledgement and ratification of furkey’s de facto boundaries”,

And above all ,

3. the relenting of the “Genocide issue”.

===

Can Armenia’s Football Diplomacy Work?

 

By Brian Whitmore in Prague

 

Armenian President Serzh Sarkisian has decided to try a little "football diplomacy" to defuse longstanding tensions with neighboring Turkey.

 

During a recent visit to Moscow, Sarkisian made waves by publicly announcing that he would like his Turkish counterpart, Abdullah Gul, to come to Yerevan to watch a World Cup qualifying match between the two countries in September.

 

The Armenian leader repeated the invitation in a commentary published in the U.S. daily "The Wall Street Journal" last week (July 9). The Turkish Foreign Ministry says it is "studying" the proposal.

 

The sports element lends Sarkisian's overture a tantalizing historical appeal, evoking memories of the "ping-pong diplomacy" of the 1970s -- when an exchange of table-tennis teams helped set the stage for eventual rapprochement between the United States and China.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Arpa

[Arpa]

The following is from AZG as translated by the house expert of the furkish language Hakob Chaqrian, and retranslated.

Maybe the real message is lost in the translation and retranslation. The headline says “Gul shall go…” , but it does not elaborate any more.

Let me see if I am reading this right.

Is it saying that erdogagan went to Moscow to show his acquiescence to Russia’s action in Ossetia, and that he went to Baku to tell the ass-eris that he (or Gul) will next visit Yerevan?

Does the Obama-Biden duet have anything to do her?

---

PRESIDENT GUL SHALL GO TO YEREVAN, AS THE WEST AND THE USA DESIRE IT

Declares Head of National Democratic Party of Turkey

The head of the oppositional National Democratic Party of Turkey Deniz Baykal, criticizing the new policy of President Gul and Prime Minister Erdogan on Caucasus, suggested some interesting ideas.

Hurriyet newspaper reports that Baykal qualified Erdogan’s latest visit to Moscow as approval of Russia’s actions in Georgia. Referring to the Armenian policy of Erdogan, Baykal declared, "The Prime Minister’s new policy on Armenia must be severely criticized in public. Why he went to Azerbaijan? He went because he had to turn the policy on Armenia into a new direction. He went in order to persuade Azerbaijan to bear that change. The change will be done at the cost of neglecting Armenians’ claims about the genocide and the occupation of Artsax. This is what the West and the USA desire".

Baykal suggested another interesting idea regarding Serge Sarkisian’s invitation of Abdullah Gul to Yerevan. "Be sure, the President shall go to Yerevan to watch the Armenia-Turkey game. That game is itself an abomination of the aforementioned shift in our policy. This tendency of resignation will still have newer forms," he said, hinting at Erdogan "giving up" to Armenia.

By H. CHaqrian, translated by A.M.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Arpa

[Armen Half-Celt]

I heard about the Armenian President inviting the Turkish one to watch the game with him. I was most eager to hear their response to the invitation.

[Arpa]

Even though pres. Gul has not yet officially responded , emotions must be running at a high pitch in both Armenia and the Diaspora. Below two of many such news items .

What do you think?

=====

ARMENIAN REVOLUTIONARY FEDERATION DASHNAKTIUTYUN TO ORGANIZE PROTEST ACTIONS IN CASE OF TURKISH PRESIDENT'S ARRIVAL IN ARMENIA

2008-08-29 16:16:00

ArmInfo. Armenian Revolutionary Federation Dashnaktiutyun will

organize protest actions if Turkish President Andullah Gul accepts

Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan's invitation to arrive in Armenia,

vice-speaker of the parliament, member of the ARF Dashnaktiutyun

Hrayr Karapetyan said at today's press-conference in Hayastk club.

 

'As Turkey still continues its anti-Armenian propaganda, this

is the best case for the ARFD to raise the voice of protest', -

he said. Touching on the football game between the national teams

of Armenia and Turkey he said: 'This match is politicized. It is

important for our football players to understand this, in that case

they will play better'.

======

ARMENIAN OPPOSITIONIST CRITICIZES INTENTION OF ARFD TO CONDUCT ANTI-TURKISH RALLY

2008-08-29 16:02:00

ArmInfo. 'The authorities are to provide conditions for rallies by

any political force. I respect the right of the Armenian Revolutionary

Federation to rally but I criticize the possible anti-Turkish nature

of the rally', Suren Surenyants, a member of Republic opposition

party Political Council said at Tesaket Debate Club Friday.

 

On the one hand ARFD is a member of political ruling coalition,

whereas on the other hand it sharply criticizes the initiative of

the authorities to invite Turkish president to football match in

Yerevan. arrival of Turkish president in Armenia is so principal

for ARFD, let it withdraw from the coalition and then criticize the

president, he said.

 

ARFD has repeatedly announced an intention to organize protest actions

in Turkish president arrives in Yerevan on Sept 2. The municipality

prohibited the rally.

 

 

[Arpa]

Here is a diplomatic diplomacy.

====

INTERVIEW OF ARMENIAN PRESIDENT SERGE SARGSYAN TO TURKISH DAILY "RADIKAL"

ARMENPRESS

Aug 29, 2008

YEREVAN, AUGUST 29, ARMENPRESS: Below is the interview of president

of Armenia, Serzh Sargsyan, to the Turkish daily Radikal.

 

Q: The 2010 World Cup qualifier between the national teams of Armenia

and Turkey, scheduled for September 6 in Yerevan, is probably the most

politicized sporting event in our region. In terms of politics what

were your expectations when you invited Turkish president Abdullah

Gul to Yerevan to watch the game together?

 

A: My number one goal was to normalize the relations between our

countries. Mr. Gul's congratulation message upon my election said

about the opportunities of normalizing the relations between Armenia

and Turkey. Later on Prime Minister Erdogan stated that Turkey is

open to a dialogue with Armenia. In return, I decided to use this

opportunity. There is a good sports event ahead. It is the first

time in the history our football teams will meet. It may become a

good opportunity for us to develop our relations. The result of the

game is not important, anyways I hope it will be a pleasure for the

fans. There excitement will be great. This will be a big and exclusive

event in our relations, and I hope it will become more special due to

the presence of the Armenian and Turkish presidents. We are neighbors

and will remains so. I am sure having normal relations will benefit

both the countries. My invitation to Mr. Gul shall be considered in

this context.

 

Q: There are some concerns in Ankara about this invitation. How, for

example the problem of the borders is to be solved and how president

Gul will be received in Armenia. Do you share these concerns?

 

A: There is nothing to worry about. If we have invited a president

of a foreign state, we are able to provide everything on a due level.

 

Q: I have met with some representatives of the Armenian Revolutionary

Federation (ARF) Party, who are against your invitation. They said

they will so everything to be heard in case president Gul arrives

in Yerevan.

 

A: I am sure their means to express themselves will remain in terms

appropriate for an official visit. Not being politically correct they

will first harm themselves, Armenia and me, then Mr. Gul.

 

Q: What do you think about the regional power engineering and

communication projects realized by Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan,

which, in case of peace and stability in the region, might be very

profitable? Would Armenia like to join those projects? Do you think

that some day you will be received in Turkey in the same way as the

leaders of Azerbaijan and Georgia are, and the leaders of Turkey will

have doubts to accept invitations from Armenia?

 

A: By now I have learned two things about regional cooperation

projects. First, in case not all the countries of the region are

involved, or one of them is excluded, the projects do nothing but

create new dividing lines. Second, when political aspects of the

project outscore the economic ones, the projects usually turn out

not as successful as it they meant to be. It is something similar to

harnessing a horse from behind the cart.

 

Q: Which project do you mean?

 

A: The Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railroad, for example. Doesn't such railroad

already exist? It can be made operational again with minimum

expenses. A lot is being spent to leave Armenia out. In the past

the leaders of Armenia visited Turkey. I too, in different offices,

have been to Turkey. Reciprocal visits between neighbors are quite a

normal thing, and they should not be deemed as some kind of courtesy

to the opposite party. Our efforts are aimed at that.

 

Q: When the construction of the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railway was

launched, president Gul in the presence of Aliyev and Saakashvili

said that Armenia could join this project in case of respecting the

international law. Do you think he hinted at the borders defined by

the 1921 agreement of Kars?

 

A: I think Mr. Gul would give a better answer to that question. I can

only assure that Armenia supports the regulations of the UN, as well

as other international treaties, it respects its own international

commitments.

 

Q: Well, I shall phrase my question more precisely. There are

some parties in Armenia that refer to a part of Turkey as Western

Armenia and, basing on the Sevres Treaty, have territorial claims

from Turkey. Do you admit that it is difficult to have full-fledged

diplomatic relations with a neighbor which argues your borders? What

is your official opinion about the legitimateness and recognition of

the agreement of Kars?

 

A: I can hardly remember any Armenian official to make territorial

claims on Turkey. But I can always hear that from Turkey. I don't

think it is right to base upon single statements. If so, there are

many people in Turkey who assure that in fact there is no Armenia

at all. We do not need any pre-conditions to establish relations

with Turkey. I know about the anxiety of Turkish officials regarding

the phrasings like Western and Eastern Armenia. It seems strange to

me. Western and Eastern Armenia are geographical terms used in the 19th

century. Trying to forget those expressions, coming from the past, is

equal to trying to deny the existence of Sparta, the Russian Empire,

the Ottoman Empire or other historical facts. If we had assumed that

official policy, we would have called our country Republic of Eastern

Armenia, not Republic of Armenia. None of the Armenian officials spoke

such things. Russia, for example, has territorial issues with China

and Japan, but it doesn't prevent those states from having normal

diplomatic relations.

 

Q: After your invitation to Gul, very serious things as the

Russia-Georgia conflict happened in Caucasus. What do you think about

Russia's assistance to South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which separated

from Georgia?

 

A: In fact tragic events happened. People were killed. It showed what

can arms race result in such cases. We advocate settling such issues

through peace negotiations. We also advocate respecting peoples'

right to self-expression and self-determination. It s regretful that

things take such a turn and of course we do not like it. We believe

that the joint plan of the Presidents of Russia and France, Medvedev

and Sarkozy, will bring peace and stability. Peace and stability are

very important to us. Putting everything aside, 70% of Armenian trade

is made through Georgia.

 

Q: Yerevan experienced problems with fuel because of the railway

bridge in Georgia blown up by the Russians, is that so?

 

A: Yes, it is. We hope the problem will be solved in two days. The

instability in the region is against Armenia. It displays very well

how we need stability. Prolonging the instable situation for three

more months or years would multiply our problems.

 

Q: Foreign Minister of Armenia Edward Nalbandian already approved

Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan's initiative on Caucasian Stability

and Partnership Platform. Can you give any details on Armenia's policy

in this question?

 

A: Foreign Minister of Armenia Edward Nalbandian expressed positive

attitude to Erdogan's initiative on regional stability, security

and dialogue. I think the Foreign Minister took right actions. After

we receive the proposal we will discuss it in details and announce

our opinion.

 

Q: Do you think that the Nagorno-Artsax conflict, which is a very

important issue in your relations with Azerbaijan and Turkey, may soon

be settled? Do you think that making a peace agreement with Azerbaijan

will raise political and economic cooperation in the region onto a

new level?

 

A: We had a productive meeting with President Aliyev in Saint

Petersburg on June 6. Both of us ordered our Foreign Ministers to

proceed the work in accord with the principles adopted in Madrid. There

have been three meetings since then. I hope we'll find a solution soon.

 

Q: Can you suggest an approximate date?

 

A: It would be wrong to predict anything before the presidential

elections in Azerbaijan. We shall see what happens after the elections.

 

Q: Do you draw parallels between Nagorno-Artsax, South Ossetia

and Abkhazia? I ask this because you said that people's right for

self-determination should be always respected.

 

A: All the conflicts have something in common and something

different. I prefer making ourselves lessons out of them instead

of focusing on similarities and differences. I can clearly see

that efforts to solve such issues with military force result in

unpredictable and complicated consequences. I would like to know how

many people knew the results of the conflict before starting it. We

have to be very cautious.

 

Q: From outside it seems that the Turkish-Armenian relations are

in stalemate because of the Genocide issue. Do you think it is

right? Do you think Armenia-Turkey relations cannot progress until

Turkey recognizes the tragic events of 1915 as genocide? Is it a

pre-condition?

 

A: You can hardly find an Armenian in the world who does not believe

the Genocide took place. But the recognition of the Genocide is not a

pre-condition for establishing dialogue with Turkey. That is why we

say that we are ready to establish diplomatic relations with Turkey

without any pre-condition.

 

Q: What is your opinion about making a historians' commission to study

the 1915 events? Do you think it is possible to have two commissions,

one for normalizing the relations and another for studying the 1915

events? Do you think they can work at the same time?

 

A: I think we need to elaborate new approaches to this issue. For I

cannot remember a non-governmental commission to be ever established to

settle an intergovernmental issue. The best way is to start diplomatic

relations. In that case numbers of substructures and groups may be

established in the frameworks of the Armenian-Turkish intergovernmental

commission. Earlier a similar commission was found in the USA. Did it

work? Its necessary to create a proper environment for the functioning

of the scientific commission you suggested. Therefore normal diplomatic

relations are bare necessity.

 

Q. Do you believe that the ongoing confidential meetings of Armenian

and Turkish diplomats will yield any outcome?

 

A. I would never support them if I believed they would not. But on

the other hand I believe that the course of relations shows that we,

the leaders of the two countries, have reached the decision-making

point. They are not going to be easy ones. Not all Armenians or Turks

will like them. But I am sure that the overwhelming part of both

societies will support those decisions. I do not mean the diplomats'

efforts, by the overall atmosphere. Abdullah Gul's congratulatory

message, Erdogan's words, my invitation to Gul, even the interview

with you are parts of this atmosphere. In this sense I believe that

we have reached the decision-making stage.

 

Q. Will Gul's decision to come or not to Yerevan effect that situation?

 

A. I think his visit will be important. Because it is not easy to

make important decisions. Addressing an audience and looking in the

eyes of the one before you are different things. If I did not believe

it was important I would not send the invitation. We had difficult

times in our history, however Armenia is ready for development of

relations and expects the same from Turkey.

 

 

 

 

[Arpa]

The latest.

According to the AZG site pres. Gul has accepted the invitation, and that it will be a same day arrival and departure..

Here is where the news is coming from.

====

Gul accepts the invitation of Sargsyan

Turkish President Abdullah Gul accepted Armenian President Serz Sargsyan's invitation to watch a football game in Yerevan, Vatan daily reported on Saturday.

Visit to contribute to relations - 30 / 08 / 2008 10:19

Turkish President Abdullah Gul accepted his Armenian counterpart's invitation to watch a football game in Yerevan as the Turkish Foreign Ministry said the visit would contribute to the relations between two neighbor countries, Vatan daily reported on Saturday.

However, Armenia has not been informed officially regarding the decision, the report said adding that the official information is expected within the next week by presidency.

Sargsyan has invited Gul to watch a football match between the two country's national teams on Sept. 6 to mark "a new symbolic start in the two countries' relations."

Gul previously told that President Serz Sargsyan's invitation is an example showing that the contribution to solving the problem and the assessments on Mr. Sargsyan's invitation are underway with taking every development into account.

Although Turkey is among the first countries to recognize Armenia when it declared its independence, there are no diplomatic relations between two countries as Armenia continues to press the international community to admit the so-called "genocide" claims, instead of accepting Turkey's call to investigate the allegations, and its invasion of 20 percent of Azerbaijani territory due to the Nagorno-Artsax issue despite U.N. Security Council resolutions on the issue.

Armenia, with the backing of the Diaspora, claims up to 1.5 million of their kin were slaughtered in orchestrated killings in 1915. Turkey rejects the claims, saying that 300,000

Edited August 30, 2008 by Arpa

[Arpa]

Some questions.

Will the flag of furkey be raised at the Hraztan Field?

Will the anthem of furkey be played?

Will the public rise as the anthems are being played?

According to some, about 20-25,000 furkish fans will attend the games.??? Huh! Where will they sleep?

Did I read it wrong? Was that supposed to be 20-25, without the zeroes?

Edited August 30, 2008 by Arpa

[Yervant1]

Some questions.

Will the flag of furkey be raised at the Hraztan Field?

Will the anthem of furkey be played?

Will the public rise as the anthems are being played?

According to some, about 20-25,000 furkish fans will attend the games.??? Huh! Where will they sleep?

Did I read it wrong? Was that supposed to be 20-25, without the zeroes?

Yes, yes and yes, don't forget during the aggregate game the opposite will happen.

As for the number of fans probably most of them will come on chartered buses which will leave after the game. I hope some will stay a little longer and enjoy the Armenian hospitality and find out that whatever their hardcore nationalists say about Armenia and Armenians is not true.

[Arpa]

Even if there may not yet be any official news from either ankara or Yervan. The elite presidential guard id to arrive in Yerevan over "the weekend". Which weekend? Have they arrived yet?

17:30 28/08/2008

Turkish Presidential guards preparing for Yerevan mission

Turkish officials have been tightlipped over whether President Abdullah Gül will accept an invitation from his Armenian counterpart, Serzh Sarksyan, to visit Armenia to watch a game between the two countries' national soccer teams, but the president's elite bodyguard team is preparing for a possible Yerevan mission.

 

According to Turkish “Zaman”, the Presidential Security Directorate, the body in charge of protecting the president, has been busy preparing for Gül's visit to Armenia in case the president accepts Sarksyan's invitation. Plans include a dispatch of a 15-member counterattack team to Armenia over the weekend as a forward unit. Officials at Turkish Foreign Ministry said there are no official plans to send a security team to Armenia at the moment.

 

Gül has declined to comment on whether he will accept the invitation, a landmark move that would break the ice between the estranged neighbors. "We are still considering it. What is important is whether such a visit will be useful or not," Gül said in televised remarks yesterday.

 

Turkish and Armenian diplomats have been holding secret talks on the normalization of ties and Sarksyan, following a message from Gül to congratulate him for his election as president earlier this year, invited Gül to Yerevan to watch the World Cup qualifying game between the national teams on Sept. 6.

 

According to current plans, a group from the counterattack team, armed with M5 and M16 rifles, will be responsible for Gül's security during the visit. High security measures are expected to be taken at Razdan Stadium, where the game will take place. Armenian police will be in charge of securing the roads Gül will use during his stay in Yerevan.

Source: Panorama.am

 

 

 

[Arpa]

Today's Zaman, Turkey

Sept 1 2008

ErdoÄ?an says Gul will visit Yerevan, Gul cautious

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoÄ?an has indicated that

President Abdullah Gul will go to Yerevan next week to watch a

World Cup qualifying game between national teams of the two countries,

but Gul remains cautious on the matter, saying he is still

considering whether to accept the invitation from his Armenian

counterpart, Serzh Sarksyan.

ErdoÄ?an was speaking to reporters about the Caucasus Stability

and Cooperation Platform, a scheme that calls for new methods of

crisis management and conflict resolution, on Saturday evening at a

reception held by the General Staff command at Gazi Orduevi in Ankara

for Victory Day. Ankara aims at bringing Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia

and Turkey around the same table via this platform.

"Why did we call this [initiative] the 'Caucasus Stability and

Cooperation Platform'? Why is Armenia included in this, why is Georgia

included in this? Because we chose [them] for inclusion [in the

platform] on a geographic basis. We have to succeed in this so that

the region will become a region of welfare and ease," ErdoÄ?an

was quoted as saying by the Anatolia news agency.

Following these remarks, ErdoÄ?an was asked whether he wanted

Mr. President to go to Yerevan for the match, in an apparent reference

to Sarksyan's invitation to Gül to watch the World Cup

qualifying game between the national teams of the two countries on

Sept. 6.

"I hope it will be good," ErdoÄ?an said, adding, "The Armenia

dimension ¦ our foreign minister will accompany him [President

Gul] and a meeting will take place there," in remarks

interpreted as Gül having decided to go to Yerevan and that

Foreign Minister Ali Babacan would also accompany him in order to have

talks there concerning Armenia's participation in the Caucasus

Stability and Cooperation Platform.

 

At the same reception, however, when asked whether he would go to

Yerevan, Gül reiterated what he has been saying for the past

few weeks, stating that his evaluation of the issue is still ongoing.

 

Turkey closed its border with Armenia and severed formal ties after

Armenia occupied Nagorno-Artsax. Normalization of ties depends on

Armenian withdrawal from the Azerbaijani territory, Yerevan shelving

support for Armenian diaspora efforts to win international recognition

for Armenian genocide claims and formal recognition by Armenia of the

current border with Turkey.

 

Azerbaijan, Turkey's regional and ethnic ally, is likely to be

offended by any rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia. But the

recent crisis in the Caucasus may force a rethinking of regional

balances. The Russian operation in Georgia raised questions about the

security of regional transportation and energy transfer lines. With

its Armenian border closed, Turkey relies on Georgia as an outlet to

the Caucasus.

 

[Armen Half-Celt]

To be honest I am a little worried about the response both the home and traveling fans. Turkey has bee known to have fan violence with Greece in the past. (Fortunately not in this decade) and I can only imaigne the mutual dislike it would be worse here. I'd also be interested to see just how many Turkish fans will show up. They have a very pasionate crowd and its not that they need to travel far. But does not FIFA or UEFA have rules about limits on the number of traveling fans in any given game, however? The home fans will be hostile like no other though. Have you guys seen highlights of recent Armenian high profile games? The crowd erupted in thunderous boos everytime Portugal or Poland even pressed into the other half. And we don't have any bad relations with those countires, I can only imagine how bad it will be if Turkey does it. And one thing that I'd be a little scared to see is if one side scores, the last thinng i'd want to see if for FIFA to penalize both countries.

[Arpa]

I has hit the international news orgs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7596768.stm

Turkish president in Armenia trip

The Turkish President, Abdullah Gul, is to attend a football match in Armenia, his office says, signalling an apparent thaw in relations.

The Turkish and Armenian teams will face each other for the first time in a World Cup qualifier on Saturday.

The two countries have no official ties and their shared border remains closed.

Turkey has rejected Armenia's campaign for the killings of some 1.5m of its citizens, by Ottoman Turks between 1915 and 1917, to be classified as genocide.

More than a dozen countries, various international bodies and many Western historians have recognised the killings as genocide.

Turkey admits that many Armenians were killed but it denies any genocide, saying the deaths were a part of World War I.

Climate of friendship

Mr Gul will become the first Turkish head of state to visit the Armenian capital, Yerevan, when he attends the match with his counterpart, Serge Sarkisian.

This visit is likely to be highly controversial in Turkey, says the BBC's Pam O'Toole.

The Armenian invitation has already sparked a major debate, with some nationalists regarding the fact that the president was even considering taking it up as a betrayal of the country's national interests.

Some columnists have questioned why Mr Gul should visit a country they refer to as Turkey's enemy.

The main opposition party has said such a trip would be a major deviation from state policy, while others see it as a valuable chance to break the logjam in relations, our correspondent says.

A statement on President Gul's website expressed hope that the trip would provide an opportunity for the two countries to understand each other better and create a new climate of friendship in the region.

Turkey and Armenia have had no diplomatic ties since Armenia became independent from the Soviet Union in 1991.

Their common border has been closed since the war between Armenia and Turkey's ally, Azerbaijan, in the 1990s over the disputed territory of Nagorno-Artsax.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7596768.stm

 

Published: 2008/09/03 17:58:27 GMT

 

© BBC MMVIII

 

 

 

[Arpa]

“will be using a new emblem featuring the figures of a tiger and a lion instead of a silhouette of Mount Agrı, also known as Mount Ararat, in eastern Turkey.”

----

“tiger and lion? Like the tiger and the lion are native beasts of Armenia, unless they mean “Tigran and Levon”(King of Klikia).

---

They should have replaced it with a “wolf and a hyena”, or, better yet, with a “wolf and a lamb“.

That’s alright. Even if they may not see the Emblem of Masis on the shirts, they will, for the first time see the Glorious Sacred Mountain from the classical vantage point that is only visible from Yerevan, while from their point of view the mountain is a dirty pile of rocks.

Not to forget that “agri-aghri” is a corruption of the Armenian “Agori-Aghori”.

====

ARMENIAN TEAM CHANGES EMBLEM BEFORE TURKEY MATCH

 

Today's Zaman

Sept 4 2008

Turkey

 

The Armenian national soccer team, poised to play against Turkey in

a World Cup qualifying game on Saturday, will be using a new emblem

featuring the figures of a tiger and a lion instead of a silhouette

of Mount Agrı, also known as Mount Ararat, in eastern Turkey.

 

Turkey and Armenia have had no formal ties since 1993. One of the

conditions Ankara expects Yerevan to fulfill for normalization

of relations is formal recognition of the current border with

Turkey. Turkish decision-makers are concerned that the Armenian

administration has claims on Turkish territory, and the depiction

of Mount Agrı on the Armenian national team emblem is seen as a

sign of Armenia's desire to claim a piece of eastern Turkey. The

Armenian Constitution describes Mount Agrı as a "state symbol,"

and Armenia's declaration of independence mentions eastern Turkey as

"Western Armenia."

 

The new emblem of the Armenian national team was introduced to the

public at a press conference in Yerevan on Wednesday. Speaking at

the briefing Armenian Football Federation Chairman Ruben Hayrapetyan

said the change of emblem was due to a demand to that effect from

football fan associations, noting that the previous emblem was not

popular among national team fans. An Armenian official in Yerevan

told Today's Zaman that the emblem had been changed a month ago and

that the new emblem will be used for the first time in the World Cup

qualifying match against Turkey. He denied, however, any link between

the change and the game against Turkey.

 

Although officials dismiss a connection between the new emblem and

the upcoming match, the change is likely to be considered a good

will gesture by the Armenian side. Armenian President Serzh Sarksyan

invited his Turkish counterpart, Abdullah Gul, to watch the game

in Yerevan. Gul has not said yet whether he would attend, but he is

widely expected to accept the invitation.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Arpa

[Arpa]

According the latest from AZG Gul has arrived and taken to Pres. Sargeian's compound.

Գյուլը Երեւանում

Մի քանի րոպե առաջ Երեւան է ժամանել Թուրքիայի նախագահ Աբդուլլահ Գյուլը: Վերջինիս Զվարթնոց օդանավակայանում դիմավորել է ՀՀ արտգործնախարար Էդուարդ Նալբանդյանը: Թուրքիայի նախագահի ավտոշարասյունը շարժվել է դեպի նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի նստավայր, որտեղ տեղի կունենա երկու երկրների ղեկավարների հանդիպումը: Երեկոյան նախագահներ Սարգսյանը եւ Գյուլը Հրազդան մարզադաշտում կդիտեն երկու երկրների ֆուտբոլի հավաքականների խաղը: Հավաքականների մրցապայքարը կսկսվի 21.00-ին, խաղից հետո Գյուլը կմեկնի Հայաստանից

 

[MosJan]

Turkish President Abdullah Gul arrives in Yerevan 06.09.2008 17:13 GMT+04:00 http://panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_print.gif http://panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_mail.gif http://panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_rus.gif http://panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_arm.gif /PanARMENIAN.Net/ Turkey’s President Abdullah Gul arrived in Yerevan on an informal visit today. The two Presidents will attend a soccer game between the Armenian and Turkish national teams in Hrazdan stadium.

 

This will be the first-ever visit of a Turkish President to independent Armenia.

 

The Presidents will watch the game from a bulletproof box. Before, they will hold a 1-hour meeting.

 

Gul will be accompanied by a 130-member delegation. Unprecedented security measures have been taken. The roads in the center and those leading to the stadium are blocked.

 

Ankara broke diplomatic relations and closed the border with Armenia in 1993 over the Nagorno Artsax conflict. To normalize relations Turkey urges Armenia to give up the policy calling for international recognition of the Armenian Genocide and cede 7 regions of NKR security belt to Azerbaijan.

 

 

[MosJan]

Aznavour won’t attend Armenia-Turkey soccer game over illness

06.09.2008 13:57 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail In Russian In Armenian

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Renowned singer Charles Aznavour said he was glad to know that Turkish President Abdullah Gul finally decided to pay a visit to Armenia.

 

“I would be happy to be in Armenia on such an important day but unfortunately I have some health problems. Dear Mr President, I wish you success in your mission for the glory of the Armenian people. I am hopeful that a meeting with Turkish President will be an advance in bilateral relations,” Aznavour said in his message.

 

Gul will be in Yerevan on Sept. 6 to attend a World Cup qualifying soccer game between the Armenian and Turkish national teams.

 

Ankara broke diplomatic relations and closed the border with Armenia in 1993 over the Nagorno Artsax conflict.

 

[Arpa]

VENI VIDI V….. BUMMERRRRRR!

I Came, I Saw, I C….d

ԵԿԻ ՏԵՍԻ ՅԱՂԹԵՑԻ /ԳՐԱՒԵՑԻ

The cliché is attributed to Julius Caesar after his victory over Pharnaces of Pontus at Cappadocia (Ironically, modern day Tokat).

The latest is that the football match ended in 2-0, I.e the first 2 of the 3 V’s in the cliché, lets’ see what the third V is. Or, better yet the MV, as in Moral Victory, Բարոյական Յաղթանակ, this phrase is so common in our language that it is recited more often than Hayr Mer or Mer Hayreniq.

However. Let me be the first to say that this time the phrase has some ring to it. Yes, he came, he saw and he… yet the main point is that he came. He came to a country that he has been denying the existence of. He came to the Capital of a country that he has been ignoring all these times. Yes, he CAME to Yerevan, the Capital of ARMENIA.

Unless he came as a potential real estate buyer to survey the property!!

And, one wonders what route he flew by. Over Georgia or over Iran, since the route over Ani and Ararat are closed.

What did he have for breakfast? Khash or kele p-acha? Not to forget the dinner of gokma, gakma and gakstrma.

The next subject topic will be Khash Diplomacy, or raqi party.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._%28dish%29.jpg

One wonders if he had a Kotayk or Cognac party!

http://www.lacproducts.com/products/beer/Kotayk.jpg

I didn’t know this. There is a Paruyr Sevak Cognac?

http://www.manufacturerspages.com/prod.php?prodID=556

Edited September 6, 2008 by Arpa

[Arpa]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09/06...tml#cnnSTCVideo

[Arpa]

FOOTBALL DIPLOMACY

 

There has been very little, if any discussion about this subject here, not much in other media either.

Let’s hear what our house pundits have to say.

Among all the noise, pro and con, the latest from the Armenian side is that the score is already 1-0 in our favor , using another cliché that the “ball is in their field”.

===

FATIH CEKIRGE: A SIGNAL FOR A NEW NOGORNO-Artsax MAP DURING ARMENIA VISIT

Hurriyet

Sept 8 2008

Turkey

 

Following a history packed with murders, assassinations, attacks,

hate, closed borders, invasions, and claims of genocide... This was

the first time that a president of the Turkish Republic has paid a

visit to Armenia. Since this was a historic visit, I allocate my entire

column to this visit I paid together with President Abdullah Gul.

 

This was the atmosphere just after the match... The two presidents are

having a conversation, and we are listening to them. Jokes are being

made. The Armenians had prepared a very nice open buffet. There was

no sign of victory or defeat on their faces. Gul turns to Sargsyan

and says:

 

-I will visit Azerbaijan after my visit here. I hope positive

developments will emerge...

 

Sargsyan replies:

 

- Of course... We are ready.

 

This is very important because Sargsyan clearly states, "We want the

borders open with Turkey. We want a solution to problems."

 

What I understand from these remarks are:

 

1- A new period can start between Azerbaijan and Armenia after

this visit. The foreign ministers have already met but this period

will mostly be a solution period... Turkey will take on a mediator

role. Gul's saying that he would visit the Armenian president shows

that such an attempt is being undertaken by both presidents.

 

2- The technical issues were not debated during this visit, but

a new map for Nagorno-Artsax can be brought to the table in the

future...Gul's visit to Baku is a sign of this.

 

3- I had the opportunity to have a brief conversation with the

Armenian president. I noticed that he was really sincere and desires

a solution. He has a positive disposition.

 

4- We realized while in the country that Gul's visit to Yerevan was

the best possible decision. With good risk management, new doors for

the Caucasus can be opened as a result of this visit.

 

NO MENTION OF SO-CALLED GENOCIDE

 

The atmosphere of elation on the plane on the way to home after Turkey

beat Armenia 2-0 was greater than the jubilance of victory in the

match. That is because the approximately 12-hour long visit transformed

tension into success. And this was clearly written all over Gul's face.

 

It was worth taking the risk...

 

Here are some of important remarks Gul made on the return journey

from Yeravan to Ankara:

 

-They never mentioned the so-called genocide issue. Leaving that aside,

they did not even imply it or mention it indirectly. They might have

even hinted at it, but they did not.

 

- We saw that they were as unbiased as us...

 

-An atmosphere has been created which would allow all the issues to

be addressed one by one

 

-They spoke very comprehensively of the Nagorno-Artsax issue.

 

-The Azeri and Armenian presidents can come together in the future. I

will pay a visit to Azerbaijan in the coming days.

 

-The visit was certainly risky. We could have announced it one week

earlier, but certain preparations had to be made for security reasons.

 

- What would happen had we not paid this visit? There would be no

result. The price we pay would continue to grow had no action been

taken.

 

- In fact, the invitation to the match sent the ball into our

field. This visit sent the ball back into their field.

 

 

 

 

[Arpa]

If I am reading the “between the lines “ correctly, the above 3 conditions may have been reduced to only 2.

Many commentaries have indicated, or in the least omitted to mention the Artsakh issue as a pre-condition. Do we assume that the “hot line” between ankara and baku is little chilly these days? See stories about the “chilly reception” of VP Cheney in baku. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18628

From the above article;

2- The technical issues were not debated during this visit, but a new map for Nagorno-Artsax can be brought to the table in the future...Gul's visit to Baku is a sign of this.

Huh! «A new map» ?

How about a «new map» to the west of Yerevan. Nakhjavan, Ararat, Ani,Van, Kars and Ardahan?

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?titl...western-big.jpg

Edited September 9, 2008 by Arpa

[Yervant1]

OVER 300 TURKISH CITIZENS VISITED GENOCIDE MUSEUM IN YEREVAN

 

AZG Armenian Daily

10/09/2008

 

Armenia-Turkey

 

According to ArmenPress news agency, over 300 citizens of Turkey

have visited the Genocide Museum in Yerevan over the recent few

days. Director of the museum-institute Hayk Demoyan said that the

Turkish visitors were mainly students, representatives of different

organizations and sports fans, who had arrived to watch the football

game.

 

Hayk Demoyan said that the Turkish visitors had very different feelings

about what they saw in the museum: some were shocked and felt very

painful and sorry about the genocide, and some were unwilling to accept

the facts seriously. Some of the Turks did not watch the exhibition

of the museum till the end, partly because of psychological stress,

and partly for the reason of avoiding reporters.

 

The latest "Armenian Sports in the Ottoman Empire" exhibition,

started last week in the museum, was of some special interest to

the Turkish visitors. They were completely ignorant of the great

Armenian contribution to the development of sports in Turkey. About

30 newspapers, TV channels and other media prepared different reports

about the Armenian Genocide Museum, and interviewed its director.

 

It is remarkable that Hasan Jamal, grandson of one of the organizers

of the Armenian Genocide, Jamal *****, also visited Yerevan and laid

a wreath at the memorial to the victims of the Armenian Genocide.

 

[Yervant1]

ERDOGAN CASTS SHADOW OVER GUL'S TRIP

 

Turkish Daily News

September 10, 2008 Wednesday

 

"The so-called genocide issue was neither talked about nor there were

any implications made on that," President Abdullah Gul said to the

journalists in his plane on the way back home from Armenia. I read this

in Yerevan, the Armenian capital. In many of the Turkish newspapers,

I read that the Armenian administration made a big gesture to Gul

and to Turkey; and so the Genocide Monument, which is lit always,

was kept in the dark on that Saturday night.

 

I was not aware of it. But to me, the story I read in the Turkish press

was interesting. "Are the lights always on at the Genocide Monument?" I

asked the chief adviser of the former Armenian Foreign Minister Vahan

Oskanian, with whom I had dinner the other night. When he replied yes,

I told him "They were not on Saturday night for a gesture to Gul."

 

He was surprised. "Then it is a really big gesture," he said and

grabbed the phone to call a few people. He turned to me and said,

"No, this is not true. The lights were on that Saturday night too,

as always."

 

There was no "gesture" as was reported by the Turkish media and the

news was not reflecting the truth.

 

Yes, Gul's visit to Yerevan is "historic" and it is indeed the most

important event of our recent history. But mainly two things can hamper

the positive outcomes of this visit: Living in a world of dreams and

sticking with the old cliche in our approach to the Armenian issue

 

If we expect any gesture from Armenia on the genocide issue and if

we think that it could be forgotten at once, we make a mistake. There

will not be such a thing. Never

 

Empathy and facing the history

 

The big tragedy, which was termed by Armenians as "genocide," yet by

some of us as "forced expulsion" or "massacre" or the "1915 incidents"

is a rare pain of masses; it is an integral part of the Armenian

identity. It is not only in the Diaspora but in the Armenian nation

state Armenia as well. Here, in Armenia you can find very few people

who do not have a background in Turkey and who were not removed in

1915 from Turkey. Not to mention about that the genocide is synonymous

with giving up being an Armenian

 

If you tried to stay over in Armenia for a while and have "empathy",

you will certainly feel that people in this country are part of a

"wounded nation."

 

Therefore, the Turkey-Armenia rapprochement can never make this issue

completely forgotten, nor can it make this case to be closed forever.

 

Quite the contrary, with this "issue" Turkey will inevitably face

its history, owing to the Turkish-Armenian close-up. So it will most

certainly be open to discussions. There is no other way.

 

For this reason, we beat the old cliche in our approaches and

remarks. Otherwise there will be no progress in Turkey-Armenian

relations. If high hopes turn into deep disappointments, the "historic"

side of Gul's visit disappears.

 

Consequences of a return from the point reached Saturday, Sept. 6

are intolerable.

 

So, starting with Gul the remark of "so-called genocide issue" should

be left behind. Gul, as the owner of a historic and courageous step,

should be the first to quit this attitude of denial and that could

be a starting-point for paving the way for bilateral relations.

 

No one is expected to say, "Yes, we do accept that it was genocide,"

and no one has made such a demand from us.

 

Empty side of the glass

 

Nonetheless, uttering the word "genocide" together with "so-called" as

though it is like a Turkish grammar rule hurts the Armenian identity

and means "denial" and rejection of the Armenian identity. Sticking

with it sends permanent rapprochement between Turks and Armenians

down the drain.

 

I am talking about the potential dangers and obstacles on the road

to this close-up opened by Gul's visit to Yerevan. But it appeared

that on the same day the visit was dynamited by Prime Minister Recep

Tayyip Erdogan.

 

On a day that the "most dramatic" foreign policy move was made during

his period, Erdogan revealed the name of Aydin Dogan, the owner of

the Dogan Publishing Group, and accused him fiercely. Can a prime

minister declare war against a media group? Is it possible for a

prime minister to steal the show from the president's Yerevan visit

in such a way? Can a prime minister cast a shadow over the visit this

badly? Can he divert the public attention to something very different

and increase the tension?

 

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has not only cast a shadow over one

of the most critical political steps of Turkey but put his political

future at risk due to this "media war". This is how the empty side

of the glass of the "historic visit" is seen.

 

 

[Arpa]

furkish delight, lokum, kokum. Enjoy it with furkish kofi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight

Edited September 11, 2008 by Arpa

[MosJan]

ARMENIA LOST THE SOCCER MATCH, BUT GAINED INTERNATIONAL PRESTIGE

• I witnessed history in the making last week when the Turkish President, at the invitation of the Armenian President, paid his first ever visit to Armenia to watch the soccer match between the national teams of their respective countries - a qualifying game for the 2010 World Cup finals.

   

  Before the match, some Armenians had been predicting with great nationalistic fervor an outright victory for Armenia, while others were certain that the game would end in a draw, in keeping with the atmosphere of political reconciliation. Armenians frowned upon this writer when he suggested that the powerful Turkish team would most probably win and that the practice of state mandated outcomes for soccer games had ceased with the demise of the Soviet Union. As I had anticipated, the Armenian team lost 2-0 in a lackluster game against the more powerful, but overly cautious Turkish team.

   

  When the Turkish President's jet arrived at Yerevan's Zvartnots Airport last Saturday, he was greeted with proper state protocol and hundreds of protesters. Later on, as he arrived at the Presidential Palace for a meeting with the Armenian President, there were more protests, not against him or his visit, but the Turkish state's denial of the Armenian Genocide. There were lengthy debates in both the Turkish and the Armenian press about the appropriateness of such protests.

   

  I believe it would have been highly surprising if the head of the Turkish state that continues to deny the Armenian Genocide had visited Armenia without a single Armenian reminding him that there is an on-going injustice and unresolved issues between the two countries. In the absence of such protests, the Turkish President would have drawn the wrong conclusion that Armenians in Armenia had no problems with Turkey and that the Genocide issue is only raised by the Diaspora, particularly since it was reported that the Genocide was not discussed at all between the two presidents. To draw Pres. Gul's attention to this important issue, ARF members unfurled a giant unsanctioned banner during the soccer match that called for: "Recognition and Reparations."

   

  Many Armenians were unhappy that the Football Federation of Armenia (FFA) had just decided to remove the sketch of Mount Ararat from the FFA logo on the Armenian soccer players' uniforms. They viewed this removal as an undesirable attempt to appease Turkey. Some members of the Armenian Parliament were so irate that they pledged to raise their objection in Parliament and possibly take legal action against the FFA.

   

  Nevertheless, the soccer match provided a unique opportunity for Pres. Sargsyan and Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian to meet with their Turkish counterparts in Yerevan to discuss the Artsakh (Karabagh) conflict, possible diplomatic relations between the two countries, the blockade of Armenia by Turkey, and the Caucasus Stability and Cooperation Platform - a new Turkish initiative. The two foreign ministers, after huddling long past midnight, decided to continue their discussions later this month while attending the United Nations General Assembly in New York City. Meanwhile, Pres. Gul invited his Armenian counterpart to come to Istanbul on Oct. 14, 2009 to watch with him the return match between the two national soccer teams.

   

  It is not known how much progress was registered in last Saturday's discussions. Both sides made optimistic statements at the conclusion of their meetings. Several observations could be made, however, regarding recent developments in the region:

   

  -- Both Armenia and Turkey have come under intense diplomatic pressure from the United States, Europe and Russia to resolve their long-standing problems which would enable these foreign powers to secure their energy supplies from the Caspian Sea region and engage in the transfer of goods by rail across now closed borders.

   

  -- The Georgian-Ossetian-Russian conflict has raised Armenia's geopolitical significance in the region at the expense of Georgia and Azerbaijan.

   

  -- Turkish officials no longer seem to be setting the resolution of the Artsakh conflict as a pre-condition to establishing relations with Armenia.

   

  -- Since Pres. Gul was strongly urged by his domestic opponents, hardliners within his own administration as well as Azerbaijani officials not to go to Armenia, imagine how much more pressure he would have to endure should he decide to establish diplomatic relations with Yerevan and open the closed border with Armenia in the near future!

   

  Finally, one concrete attempt at historical reconciliation between a very special Turk and a very special Armenian already succeeded. Milliyet's journalist Hasan Cemal, the grandson of one of the three masterminds of the Armenian Genocide, Jemal *****, had a very touching meeting earlier this week in Yerevan with the grandson of his grandfather's Armenian assassin in Tbilisi in 1922. A few days ago, Hasan Cemal visited the Genocide Memorial in Yerevan and placed a wreath in memory of the Armenian victims!

• By Harut Sassounian, Publisher, The California Courier

[MosJan]

ARMENIA LOST THE SOCCER MATCH, BUT GAINED INTERNATIONAL PRESTIGE

• I witnessed history in the making last week when the Turkish President, at the invitation of the Armenian President, paid his first ever visit to Armenia to watch the soccer match between the national teams of their respective countries - a qualifying game for the 2010 World Cup finals.

   

   

  Finally, one concrete attempt at historical reconciliation between a very special Turk and a very special Armenian already succeeded. Milliyet's journalist Hasan Cemal, the grandson of one of the three masterminds of the Armenian Genocide, Jemal *****, had a very touching meeting earlier this week in Yerevan with the grandson of his grandfather's Armenian assassin in Tbilisi in 1922. A few days ago, Hasan Cemal visited the Genocide Memorial in Yerevan and placed a wreath in memory of the Armenian victims!

• By Harut Sassounian, Publisher, The California Courier

 

just for the last part - to see jemals grandson place an wreath in tsitsernakabert would of been enough for me