hagopn Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Γλκερια is definitely a favorite երգչուհի: Հա, շատ եմ սիրում իրան, իր արվեստը, եւ այլ բաներ-- Now that we got that squared away, let me bring to your attention the transliteration of the song entitled Մեխրի նա գինումէ անգելի by a Greek poster as Mehri na ginoume aggeloi here . It is a favorite of my Greek songs. In fact, Greeks spell the word αγγελοι/αγγελοσ However, this is in the Language section for a reason: Notice the diphtong of γγ, gg, to pronounce ng in the word Angeli, angels. How odd, would an Armenian say, that Greeks, from whom we supposedly got this word of «անգեղ» or «անգզ» according to our inferiority complexed illustrious lingvotists, can't seem to spell it right. Another question had arisen: The Armenian word means "bird of prey, falcon, eagle" and other such stuff in different contexts, but it is theorized that the oldest usage of the word was to denote the eagle. It does not mean "angel." which is monosemous in Greek, but polysemous in Armenian with many more variations and derivations. In germanic language such as English we have two terms that stem from this single concept: Angel, and Eagle. The tribe of the Angles were more not surpsingly also worshippers of the Eagle/Անգղ totem, and it is possible that the Angles were remnants of this later perseucted and exiled clan. As were the Angles of Germanic fame, the Armenian Անգզ Տուն was extrenely warlike, and our Տորք Անգեղ myth is a recolletion of perhaps either its founder or its most powerful king, whom could have possibly been a certain Թարխու or Տարաու remembered in Eblan texts and Akkadian texts and rock (stellate) inscriptions. The Akkadian inscriptions were from 2235 b.c. on a campaign memorial stellate situated a few miles south of present day Diyarbekir, and on it are remembered the state names of Kummikhi (mentioned in the Avesta with its king name Goshtasp/Vishtasp/Koshtasp), Տարաու/Թարխու, and the Արմանի. What is significant is that these states were identified as being of a federation that "spoke a language difficult to pronounce," which indicates common ethnicity and a confederate relationship (as it was still up to the times of the Բագրատունի**: **ΝΟΤΕ¨Archeologist Α. Mordtmann read the name Sarduri, Sar-du-ri as Bag-ri-turi, in which he considered the cunieform symbol for Sar as a logogram that was also readable as Bag-ri, or "born of a godhead". So powerful an image and totem was the Անգղ for Armenians that the most powerful տոհմ was the Անգզ Տուն, or, as our Christo-biased author (Մովսես Խորենացի) recalled as «Անգեղ Տուն» (literally, the house of the ugly): There is little recorded on this apparently most influential տոհմ in Armenian history purportedly due to their later refusal to accept Persian demands and fight to the end, as well as the refusal to adopt Christianity as the state religion. As the history of Ebla re-stated by the most trustworthy authority on the topic, G. Pettinatto, is testimony, the Անգղ Տուն was a power to reckon with that for a long spell also controlled the large city state and trading empire of Ebla herself in its 2nd phase. I will dilute the complex and lengthy treatise by scholars such as G. Ghapantsian, H. Nersesian, M. Gavoukjian, and others on this Անգղ Տան that dominated Armenian political life for centuries, since times preceding the Akkadians to the best my ability. This is a most complex topic which will take considerable time to do it justice. Bear with me in the meanwhile--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) Hagop, "You ugly face, that only a mother can love" (he knows what that means and where it is coming from, it goes years back to one time our "mutual love affair" ) as always, an excellent article . I will abstain from quoting you since this post is not a commentary on your post but a venting if you will. Even if your article is linguistic that deserves further investigation, it would be a most welcome and an embellishment were you to repost it under the following topic in Mythology, as well. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=13297 I can’t still get over my anger as to how unscientific scientists are. Look at what that so called philologist , Poghos Khachatrian, a director at the Matenadaran says, without a scintilla of remorse or commentary, inferring that Tork Angeghya in fact does mean Ugly Tork. Legends, and sometimes deliberately facetious folk linguistics aside, when a so called philologist does it. Ugly? As I have said above; “His mother is ugly“! Read Aghayan’s epic again and see how tenderly beautiful Tork is behind that mask. I wish someone would post that epic in its entirety. I will come back to the linguistics of “ang@gh/ԱՆԳՂ/vulture” the bird. Note: Some time ago I did send an e-mail to that so called philologist, but I don’t know if he even saw it since the Matenadaran is in such a disarray, one never knows who is in who out. I can always write to my dear friend Dr. Stella Vardanian, researcher at the Matenadaran and author of “History of Armenian Medicine“ (her specialty), but I don’t want to burden her. I did not even bring it up when I saw here about a year ago. Edited November 12, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Γλκερια is definitely a favorite երգչուհի: Հա, շատ եմ սիրում իրան, իր արվեստը, եւ այլ բաներ-- Now that we got that squared away, let me bring to your attention the transliteration of the song entitled Մեխրի նա գինումէ անգելի by a Greek poster as Mehri na ginoume aggeloi here . It is a favorite of my Greek songs. In fact, Greeks spell the word αγγελοι/αγγελοσ However, this is in the Language section for a reason: Notice the diphtong of γγ, gg, to pronounce ng in the word Angeli, angels. How odd, would an Armenian say, that Greeks, from whom we supposedly got this word of «անգեղ» or «անգզ» according to our inferiority complexed illustrious lingvotists, can't seem to spell it right. Another question had arisen: The Armenian word means "bird of prey, falcon, eagle" and other such stuff two terms that stem from this single concept: Angel, and Eagle. The tribe of tr [/i] the Akkadians to the best my ability. This is a most complex topic which will take considerable time to do it justice. Bear with me in the meanwhile--- How ingineous of you to bring forth the similariry of "ang@!gh, eagle and aquila. And now coming back to linguistics. Why is it that only one time Haleptsis like Hagop and me, and present Haleptsi Johannes are the only ones delving into cultural history and linguistics while the other majority here seem to be PARALISED, fascinated and obsessed by and with the big G. Just in case, Hagop (that “UGLY” face) and I have been in love for quite some time. To set the record straight, both Hagop and I are BOYS, very much fathers and grand-fathers, very much in love with our partners of the opposite gender. Our “love affair” goes beyond the physical, why not. As a brother to brother, a father to son. Coming back to linguistics. Hagop makes an interesting reference. We have, for the longest time assumed that ang@gh//անգղ meant VULTURE, without heeding to such “eagle/aigle/aquila” etc. to not mention that Haik is described as having that legendary Armenian “aquiline nose/ արծիւա քիթ”. Did our ancestors confuse the mighty Eagle with the carcass eating/գիշատից vulture? Why that bird that gets massacred every November was called so, look here http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1647&hl=turchun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Hagop, "You ugly face, that only a mother can love" (he knows what that means and where it is coming from, it goes years back to one time our "mutual love affair" ) as always, an excellent article . I will abstain from quoting you since this post is not a commentary on your post but a venting if you will. Even if your article is linguistic that deserves further investigation, it would be a most welcome and an embellishment were you to repost it under the following topic in Mythology, as well. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=13297 I can’t still get over my anger as to how unscientific scientists are. Look at what that so called philologist , Poghos Khachatrian, a director at the Matenadaran says, without a scintilla of remorse or commentary, inferring that Tork Angeghya in fact does mean Ugly Tork. Legends, and sometimes deliberately facetious folk linguistics aside, when a so called philologist does it. Ugly? As I have said above; “His mother is ugly“! Read Aghayan’s epic again and see how tenderly beautiful Tork is behind that mask. I wish someone would post that epic in its entirety. I will come back to the linguistics of “ang@gh/ԱՆԳՂ/vulture” the bird. Note: Some time ago I did send an e-mail to that so called philologist, but I don’t know if he even saw it since the Matenadaran is in such a disarray, one never knows who is in who out. I can always write to my dear friend Dr. Stella Vardanian, researcher at the Matenadaran and author of “History of Armenian Medicine“ (her specialty), but I don’t want to burden her. I did not even bring it up when I saw here about a year ago. Oh, thank you for the compliments--- I would rather be ugly tha a scrotumhead/sokhi glukh head pretending to be a "chess master" spewing hate at a sports event. I think you posted Aghayan's epic on Hayastan a while back. I am waiting for your stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) Eagle, hawk etc. It is amazing how we corrupt it and redefine the EAGLE, aigle, aquila to mean vulture. Not surprised when our academicians define Tork Ang@gh as Ugly Tork without a drop of academia and remorse. And now coming back to linguistics. Why is it that only one time Haleptsis like Hagop and me, and present Haleptsi Johannes are the only ones delving into cultural history and linguistics while the other majority here seem to be, fascinated and obsessed and PARALYZED by the big G. Just in case, Hagop (that “UGLY” face) and I have been in love for quite some time. To set the record straight, both Hagop and I are BOYS, very much fathers and grand-fathers, very much in love with our partners of the opposite gender. Our “love affair” goes beyond the physical, why not. As a brother to brother, a father to son. Coming back to linguistics. Hagop makes an interesting reference. We have, for the longest time assumed that ang@gh//անգղ meant VULTURE, without heeding to such “eagle/aigle/aquila” etc. to not mention that Haik is described as having that legendary Armenian “aquiline nose/ արծիւա քիթ”. Did our ancestors confuse the mighty Eagle with the carcass eating/գիշատից vulture? Why that bird that gets massacred every November was called so, look here http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1647&hl=turchun Edited November 12, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 It is amazing how we corrupt it and redefine the EAGLE, aigle, aquila to mean vulture. Not surprised when our academicians define Tork Ang@gh as Ugly Tork without a drop of academia and remorse. And now coming back to linguistics. Why is it that only one time Haleptsis like Hagop and me, and present Haleptsi Johannes are the only ones delving into cultural history and linguistics while the other majority here seem to be, fascinated and obsessed and PARALYZED by the big G. Just in case, Hagop (that “UGLY” face) and I have been in love for quite some time. To set the record straight, both Hagop and I are BOYS, very much fathers and grand-fathers, very much in love with our partners of the opposite gender. Our “love affair” goes beyond the physical, why not. As a brother to brother, a father to son. Coming back to linguistics. Hagop makes an interesting reference. We have, for the longest time assumed that ang@gh//անգղ meant VULTURE, without heeding to such “eagle/aigle/aquila” etc. to not mention that Haik is described as having that legendary Armenian “aquiline nose/ արծիւա քիթ”. Did our ancestors confuse the mighty Eagle with the carcass eating/գիշատից vulture? Why that bird that gets massacred every November was called so, look here http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1647&hl=turchun It is part of a long process of defamation and discreditation of the old religion, which was by no means Zoroastrianism. The very fact that the largest treasure looted was the temple of Vahagn should tell you where the society stood as far as their faith. Every totem, every symbol, every idea, even the language, were either prohibited or defamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) It is part of a long process of defamation and discreditation of the old religion, which was by no means Zoroastrianism. The very fact that the largest treasure looted was the temple of Vahagn should tell you where the society stood as far as their faith. Every totem, every symbol, every idea, even the language, were either prohibited or defamed. Anyway, Nune, the Lounge Singer from the Ayo Show (Այո Շոուուուու, they actually spell out the english word Շուու, which is a չտես joke in itself) fame, had to go to Halap to find that she is Armenian. She went to Halap ad then she begn singing Armenian songs. In Yerevan she was taught to believe that she is a "jazz lounge singer," which is indicative of the cultural puke that Artur Grigorian and his Incubator had produced. In another thread we talk about Datevik Hovanesian, Opelia's daughter, who has decided to, anyway, (self censored) Komitas to the last "du, da" scat syllable. She is such a piece of trash. Edited November 12, 2007 by hagopn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Off topic? Maybe? As long as we’re talking about birds. On our way to and from Areni I was fascinated with the number of Stork nests on top of all and every tall structure, be they telephone poles or tall buildings of any kind. He Ed \! Do you have pictures of those Aragili Buyn-s. http://www.fotosearch.com/PDS135/200450581-001/ Btw. Krunk/Groong, the messenger of news (Krunk ousti k’oucas…”) is the crane. http://www.exzooberance.com/virtual%20zoo/...ne%20268022.jpg Aragil is the stork, you know that bird that brings babies! http://members.cox.net/jecoulter/frameset/..._baby_stork.gif I just saw this on a sidebar in the book “Birds of Armenia”. “Legend of the White Stork In addition to Mount Ararat of biblical fame, ancient Armenia is symbolized by the White Stork, which is mentioned in historical data going bak to the fourth century. Farmers had such affection for the stork, which had earned their respect by consuming large quantities of crop-damaging insects, that they considered the killing of one to be tantamount to committing a sin. Armeninas have revered the White Stork as a sacred symbol of luck, kindness, and success that also ensures a devoted and healthy family. It is honored in folk songs, literature and art. And to this day, some believe the ancient legend that when a stork dies, its mate will kill itself in grief”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) Թորկել (երեւի տորքել), սասնոյ բարբառով նշանակէ «զարնել»: Արաբերէն լեզւով անգղին «ակաաբ» կոչեն, երբեմն նաեւ «նըսըր ալ ակաբ», որ նշանակէ «անգղ արծիւ»: Անգղը թռչնազգիներու արծիւային ընտանիքին կը պատկանի, ինչպէս բազէն եւ շահէնը: Իսկ յունարէն անգելոս հրեշտակ չէ՞: Նախաքրիստոնեայ մշակոյթներու մէջ թռչունները, որպէս հրեշտակ (երկնային էակներ) ծանուած էին: Աստուածաշնչեան հրեշտակները աղաւնիի կերպարանքով են: Նախնեաց մօտ՝ անգղ (արծիւ) եւ յոյն անգել (հրեշտակ)...ուրեմն արծիւի կերպարով: Կարդացեր էի Ա. Վ. գիրքին մէջ, թէ մեր նախնիք Արեգակը կը պատկերէին թռչող արծիւի կերպարով, վասնզի Արեգակը նոյնպէս կը սաւառնի (նախնեաց պատկերացումով): Ի միջի այլոց, սիրելի Յակոբ, քանիցս յիշեցիր Kummikhi երկրի անունը: Համարձակի՞նք ասելու, որ սա նոյն Կոմմագենէ անունն է: Բայց Կումմիխի անունը, աւելի մօտ է Բարձր Հայքի Կեմախ բերդի անուան: Այստեղ թաղուեր են հայոց արքաները, բայց որոշ ժամանակ ետք. աճիւնները փոխադրուած են արեւելեան Հայաստան, քանզի Կեմախը անապահով էր, կամ Հռովմի տիրութեանն անցած էր: Հայաստանի հարաւը եւ հարաւ արեւմուտքը առեւտրական ճամփաներու վրայ կը գտնուէր: Օտարները առաջին անգամ երբ Հայաստանը տկարացնել ուզեցին. Աղձնիք (որտեղ է Անգեղ Տունը) եւ Ծոփք (Սա Կոմմագենէի հետ մաս է կազմել մի թագաւորութիւն) նահանգներէն պատառներ պոկեցին, որպէս եւ յետեւանք, բնակիչներու մի մասը ասորացաւ կամ յունացաւ: Իսկ Փոքր Հայքը երբէք չէ կազմած Հայ թագաւորութեան մաս, պատճառելով տեղի բնակիչներու (որոշ քանակով) հելլենացման: Այսպիսով, հայ ժողովուրդ կծկուելով ոսպի ջուրի պէս, հաւաքուած է իր երկրի հիւսիս արեւելքը: Զարմանալի պիտի չի թուի մեզ եթէ նկատենք կոմմագենեան Նեմրութ լեռը եւ իր Պանթէոնը, աշխարհագրականօրէն շատ մօտ են Անգեղ Տան: Իսկ Անգեղ տունը, վերջին հարիւրամեակներուն կը կոչուէր Էգիլ-Egil: Ժողովրդային լեզուի, կամ բարբառային ä կամ ae կամ ea հնչիւնը գրուած է «է» կամ «ե» տառով, յար եւ նման Մարգարեան-Մերկերեան ազգանուան պարագան, մերոնք Մարգար անուան «ա» հնչիւնը «ä»ով արտասանած են, ճիշտ այդ պատճառով «Մարգարեան» ձեւով գրելու փոխարէն գրած են՝ Մերկերեան, հաւանաբար չեն իսկ իմացել. իրենց ազգանուան «Մարգար» անունէն կազմեալ լինելը: Ուրեմն մինչ անցեալ դարի սկիզբ, AEGIL կամ EGIL կոչած են մերոնք այդ քաղաքի (աւանի)անունը: Սա շատ մօտ է նաեւ վերջերս մեր զրուցած Արեւմտահայաստանեան Ջերմուկին: Քանի որ Կեմախի մասին գրեցի, յիշեմ եւս, այդ բերդքաղաքը կը գտնուի Բարձր Հայքի Եկեղիք (Եկեղեաց) Ակիլիսենէ-Akilisene գաւառի արեւմուտքը, Դարանաղի գաւառին մէջ: Հայ բառարան մը գրած էր, իբր եկեղի նշանակէ՝ դաշտ: Edited November 13, 2007 by Johannes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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