Platonic Relationship Between A Man And Woman

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Hello everyone,

 

I am Kakachik, been here long time but don't quite start many new topics. In any case, based on a recent personal experience of course, I started wondering about these "platonic friendships" between a man and a woman. Are we attracted to each other perhaps on an unconscious level but don't quite realize it on a conscious level? Are we playing games? Is it ok when a one of the partners starts developing feelings? How do one go from a "platonic relationship" to a real one? Is it possible? I know life's answers are way more complicated than my simple questions here but I would be more than happy to hear both male and female opinions. Cheers!

 

Kakachik jan, the answer to your 'simple question' is more simple then you think. In my honest opinion, you two are playing games. You both have entered into each others personal space without even realizing that you have left your votqi hetqer@ mimianc zgacakan dashti mej. Vorpes tgamard@, inq@ chuni zgacakan ayn imacutyun@ vor du vorpes kin karogh es unenal. Yete ankegts lines nax yev araj inqd qez het, hamozvats em bac forumi mej ays xosakcutyun@ unenalu kariq@ chs unena. Isk te inchn a qez iran het kapum, dra patasxan@ kunenas inqd qez het ankegtsanaluc heto. Moteci iran miayn u miayn qo mej hstakutyun mtcneluc heto. At this stage, i think you both are interested about having tactical relationship- instead of a relationship built on real values. Isk platonic relatinship@ asvats@, arvestov zbagvogh mardkanc hamar a ovqer [zgacakan] urish ashxarhi mej en aprum. Sa asel che iran nsemacnum em...da iran stektagortselu dzevn a. Isk irakan kyanqum, harabervel inqnin nshanakum a inch vor paymanneri tak inch vor dzevi kapi mej mtnel...poxaren@ yerazelov nerqust gohanal. Chnayats hay irakanutyan mej inqnaxabkanqov zbagvel@ dardzel a sovorakan apreladzev, bayc de asum en, what's popular is not always right. Verlutseluc heto yete hamozvats lines vor inq@ qo yerami trjun a, yerbeq chhapages iren het ankegtsanaluc.

 

Good luck

 

 

(kneres yete inch vor tegh inch vor dzevov chap@ anca ...harc@ du es barcracel, isk... dar@ irakanutyun@ kartsum em aveli lav a qan hajeli sut@ )

[kakachik77]

Kakachik jan, the answer to your 'simple question' is more simple then you think. In my honest opinion, you two are playing games. You both have entered into each others personal space without even realizing that you have left your votqi hetqer@ mimianc zgacakan dashti mej. Vorpes tgamard@, inq@ chuni zgacakan ayn imacutyun@ vor du vorpes kin karogh es unenal. Yete ankegts lines nax yev araj inqd qez het, hamozvats em bac forumi mej ays xosakcutyun@ unenalu kariq@ chs unena. Isk te inchn a qez iran het kapum, dra patasxan@ kunenas inqd qez het ankegtsanaluc heto. Moteci iran miayn u miayn qo mej hstakutyun mtcneluc heto. At this stage, i think you both are interested about having tactical relationship- instead of a relationship built on real values. Isk platonic relatinship@ asvats@, arvestov zbagvogh mardkanc hamar a ovqer [zgacakan] urish ashxarhi mej en aprum. Sa asel che iran nsemacnum em...da iran stektagortselu dzevn a. Isk irakan kyanqum, harabervel inqnin nshanakum a inch vor paymanneri tak inch vor dzevi kapi mej mtnel...poxaren@ yerazelov nerqust gohanal. Chnayats hay irakanutyan mej inqnaxabkanqov zbagvel@ dardzel a sovorakan apreladzev, bayc de asum en, what's popular is not always right. Verlutseluc heto yete hamozvats lines vor inq@ qo yerami trjun a, yerbeq chhapages iren het ankegtsanaluc.

 

Good luck

(kneres yete inch vor tegh inch vor dzevov chap@ anca ...harc@ du es barcracel, isk... dar@ irakanutyun@ kartsum em aveli lav a qan hajeli sut@ )

 

Aratta jan, chap@ hech chanstar...thank you for your honest opinion.

[Harut]

don't you know that when woman is arroused and doesn't have sex, she can seriously hurt herself... so please do yourself a favor (and this applies to all women) and have more sex more frequently with more guys... the world will be a lot happier place...

[Anonymouse]

Anonymouse, all friendships are caring and loving. However, in this case I don't mean just love like you love your best friend. My best friend is my girl friend (I have no guy best friend) and I love her deeply and wish for her happiness and success like I do mine. I also have some guy friends but I don't think I feel any "love" for them. But in the platonic love I described above, one feels that same "love" towards the member of the opposite sex. Naturally, being heterosexual, this love could easily turn into romantic love. That's why I said that if the man and the woman keep their distance (or have to keep their distance) this kind of love could develop if they feel understood by each other and feel compatible with each other. In a way the souls are attracted to each other and the attraction to the external appearance (which would be lust) is not important. Of course, maybe it's only the woman who may feel this way. I'm not a guy and have no idea how a guy would feel in this case.

 

I have to respectfully disagree my lady. The idea of "platonic love" is about as real as Chretien de Troyes' Arthurian romances of "romantic love".

[Em]

Can Men and Women Be Friends?

Provided by Psychology Today

 

OVERCOMING SEX

 

If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, it may explain at least one of their shared beliefs: Men and women can't be real friends. Blame the sexual tension that almost inevitably exists between any red-blooded, heterosexual man and woman. Point to the jealousy that plagues many rational people when a significant other befriends someone of the opposite sex. Boil it down to the inherent differences between the sexes. It just can't be done. Right?

 

Wrong, say relationship experts. "The belief that men and women can't be friends comes from another era in which women were at home and men were in the workplace, and the only way they could get together was for romance," explains Linda Sapadin, Ph.D., a psychologist in private practice in Valley Stream, New York. "Now they work together and have sports interests together and socialize together." This cultural shift is encouraging psychologists, sociologists and communications experts to put forth a new message: Though it may be tricky, men and women can successfully become close friends. What's more, there are good reasons for them to do so.

 

Society has long singled out romance as the prototypical male-female relationship because it spawns babies and keeps the life cycle going; cross-sex friendship, as researchers call it, has been either ignored or trivialized. We have rules for how to act in romantic relationships (flirt, date, get married, have kids) and even same-sex friendships (boys relate by doing activities together, girls by talking and sharing). But there are so few platonic male-female friendships on display in our culture that we're at a loss to even define these relationships.

 

Part of this confusion stems from the media. A certain 1989 film starring Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal convinced a nation of moviegoers that sex always comes between men and women, making true friendship impossible. "When Harry Met Sally set the potential for male-female friendship back about 25 years," says Michael Monsour, Ph.D., assistant professor of communications at the University of Colorado at Denver and author of Women and Men as Friends: Relationships Across the Life Span in the 21st Century (Lawrence Erlbaum, 2001). Television hasn't helped either. "Almost every time you see a male-female friendship, it winds up turning into romance," Monsour notes. Think Sam and Diane or Chandler and Monica. These cultural images are hard to overcome, he says. It's no wonder we expect that men and women are always on the road to romance.

 

But that's only one of the major barriers. In 1989, Don O'Meara, Ph.D., a sociology professor at the University of Cincinnati-Raymond Walters College, published a landmark study in the journal Sex Roles on the top impediments to cross-sex friendship. "I started my research because one of my best friends is a woman," says O'Meara. "She said, 'Do you think anyone else has the incredible friendship we do?'" He decided to find out, and after reviewing the scant existing research dating back to only 1974, O'Meara identified the following four challenges to male-female friendship: defining it, dealing with sexual attraction, seeing each other as equals and facing people's responses to the relationship. A few years later, he added a fifth: meeting in the first place.

 

CHALLENGE #1

 

Defining the Relationship: Friends or lovers?

 

Platonic love does exist, O'Meara asserts, and a study of 20 pairs of friends published in the Journal of Social and Personal Relationships lends credence to the notion. In it, Heidi Reeder, Ph.D., an assistant professor at Boise State University, confirms that "friendship attraction" or a connection devoid of lust, is a bona fide type of bond that people experience. Distinguishing between romantic, sexual and friendly feelings, however, can be exceedingly difficult.

 

"People don't know what feelings are appropriate toward the opposite sex, unless they're what our culture defines as appropriate," says O'Meara. "You know you love someone and enjoy them as a person, but not enough to date or marry them. What does this mean?"

 

CHALLENGE #2

 

Overcoming Attraction: Let's talk about sex

 

The reality that sexual attraction could suddenly enter the equation of a cross-sex friendship uninvited is always lurking in the background. A simple, platonic hug could instantaneously take on a more amorous meaning. "You're trying to do a friend-friend thing," says O'Meara, "but the male-female parts of you get in the way." Unwelcome or not, the attraction is difficult to ignore.

 

In a major 1988 study published in the Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, Sapadin asked more than 150 professional men and women what they liked and disliked about their cross-sex friendships. Topping women's list of dislikes: sexual tension. Men, on the other hand, more frequently replied that sexual attraction was a prime reason for initiating a friendship, and that it could even deepen a friendship. Either way, 62 percent of all subjects reported that sexual tension was present in their cross-sex friendships.

 

CHALLENGE #3

 

Establishing Equality: The power play

 

Friendship should be a pairing of equals. But, O'Meara says, "in a culture where men have always been more equal than women, male dominance, prestige and power is baggage that both men and women are likely to bring to a relationship." Women are at risk of subconsciously adopting a more submissive role in cross-sex friendships, he says, although that is slowly changing as society begins to treat both genders more equally.

 

CHALLENGE #4

 

The Public Eye: Dealing with doubters

 

Society may not be entirely ready for friendships between men and women that have no sexual subtext. People with close friends of the opposite sex are often barraged with nudging, winking and skepticism: "Are you really just friends?" This is especially true, says O'Meara, of older adults, who grew up when men and women were off-limits to each other until marriage.

 

CHALLENGE #5

 

The Meeting Place: Finding friends

 

As the workplace and other social arenas become increasingly open to women, the sexes are mingling more and more. Still, men and women continue to have surprisingly few opportunities to interact.

 

"Boys and girls form their own gender groups in elementary school," explains Monsour. "They learn their own ways of relating to each other. So when they do get together, inspired by puberty, they see each other as dating partners because they've never really known each other as friends." A surprisingly major factor in this phenomenon is the kids' own innate interest in children who act like they do. Called "voluntary gender segregation," it continues into adulthood. "You see it at cocktail parties," says Monsour. "Men go off to one corner, and women go to another."

 

These obstacles may seem numerous and formidable, but male-female friendship is becoming not only a possibility but also a necessity. If men and women are to work, play and coexist in modern society, researchers believe men and women must learn to understand and communicate with each other. To that end, social scientists like Sapadin, Monsour and O'Meara have begun studying how to do just that. The field of research is still in its infancy, but they are now beginning to understand some basic truths about male-female friendship:

 

TRUTH #1

 

Friendship is not equal opportunity

 

Not until high school does puberty really draw boys and girls together, which then continues into college. But as people develop serious romantic relationships or get married, making and maintaining cross-sex friendships becomes harder. "Even the most secure people in a strong marriage probably don't want a spouse to be establishing a new friendship, especially with someone who's very attractive," says Monsour.

 

The number of cross-sex friendships continues to decline with age--not surprising, because most older adults grew up in an age where consorting with the opposite sex outside of wedlock was taboo. According to Rosemary Blieszner, Ph.D., a family studies professor at Virginia Tech and author of Adult Friendship (Sage, 1993), elderly people rarely form new friendships with members of the opposite sex. Her research shows that only about 2 percent of the friendships elderly women have are with men.

 

TRUTH #2

 

Men benefit more from cross-sex friendship than women

 

There are proven--and apparent--distinct differences between female friendship and male friendship. Women spend the majority of their time together discussing their thoughts and feelings, while men tend to be far more group-oriented. Males gather to play sports or travel or talk stock quotes; rarely do they share feelings or personal reflections. This may explain why they seem to get far more out of cross-sex friendship than their female counterparts.

 

In Sapadin's study, men rated cross-sex friendships as being much higher in overall quality, enjoyment and nurturance than their same-sex friendships. What they reported liking most was talking and relating to women--something they can't do with their buddies. Meanwhile, women rated their same-sex friendships higher on all these counts. They expect more emotional rewards from friendship than men do, explains Sapadin, so they're easily disappointed when they don't receive them. "Women confide in women," notes blieszner. "Men confide in women."

 

TRUTH #3

 

...but women benefit, too

 

All that sharing and discussing in female-female friendship can become exhausting, as any woman who's stayed up all night comforting a brokenhearted girlfriend can attest. With men, women can joke and banter without any emotional baggage. "Friendships with men are lighter, more fun," says Sapadin. "Men aren't so sensitive about things." Some women in her study also liked the protective, familial and casual warmth they got from men, viewing them as surrogate big brothers. What they liked most of all, however, was getting some insight into what guys really think.

 

TRUTH #4

 

Cross-sex friendships are emotionally rewarding

 

Although women dig men's lighthearted attitude, most male-female friendships resemble women's emotionally-involving friendships more than they do men's activity-oriented relationships, according to Kathy Werking, Ph.D., an assistant professor of communications at Eastern Kentucky University and author of We're Just Good Friends (Guilford, 1997). Her work has shown that the No. 1 thing male and female friends do together is talk one-on-one. Other activities they prefer--like dining out and going for drives--simply facilitate that communication. In fact, Werking found, close male-female friends are extremely emotionally supportive if they continuously examine their feelings, opinions and ideas. "Males appreciate this because it tends not to be a part of their same-sex friendships," she says. "Females appreciate garnering the male perspective on their lives."

 

TRUTH #5

 

It's not all about sex

 

"In reality, sex isn't always on the agenda," says Werking. "That could be due to sexual orientation, lack of physical attraction or involvement in another romantic relationship." After all, even friends who are attracted to each other may also recognize that qualities they tolerate in a friendship wouldn't necessarily work in a serious romantic relationship. And after years of considering someone as a friend, it often becomes difficult to see a cross-sex pal as a romantic possibility.

 

Of pairs that do face the question of lust, those that decide early on to bypass an uncertain romantic relationship are more likely to have an enduring friendship, says Werking. One study published in the Journal of Social and Personal Relationships by Walid Afifi, Ph.D., of Penn State University, showed that of more than 300 college students surveyed, 67 percent reported having had sex with a friend. Interestingly, 56 percent of those subjects did not transition the friendship into a romantic relationship, suggesting that they preferred friendship over sex.

 

TRUTH #6

 

Male-female friendships are political

 

Men and women have increasingly similar rights, opportunities and interests, which can make cross-sex friendship very political, notes Werking. "It upsets the agreed-upon social order," she explains. "Women and men engage in an equal relationship, or they aren't friends." For one thing, new generations of kids grow up believing that boys can play with dolls and girls can take kickboxing, and they're crossing paths more frequently as a result.

 

Men and women are also becoming more androgynous as their societal roles become more similar. "Men are more willing to have feminine characteristics, and women are a lot more willing to admit to traditionally masculine characteristics, like assertiveness," says Monsour. His dissertation showed that women and men categorized as androgynous had twice the number of cross-sex friends.

 

Whatever the challenges of male-female friendship, researchers agree that to succeed as friends, both genders have to openly and honestly negotiate exactly what their relationship will mean--whether sexual attraction is a factor and how they'll deal with it--and establish boundaries. In Afifi's and Reeder's studies, the friendships that survived--and even thrived--after sex or attraction came into play were those in which the friends extensively discussed the meaning of the sexual activity and felt confident and positive about each other's feelings. Once they got past that, they were home free.

 

"If sex is part of the dynamic, addressing it explicitly is the best strategy" for making sure the friendship survives, says Werking. "The issue will fester if friends try to ignore it." So in the end, male-female friendship does have something in common with romantic relationships: To work, communication is key.

 

RESEARCHERS tell us that men and women can be friends. But do we really believe them? A survey of more than 1,450 members of the match.com dating site revealed that we're an optimistic bunch:

 

1. Do you believe men and women can be platonic friends?

 

Yes: 83%

No: 11%

Unsure: 6%

2. Have you had a platonic friendship that crossed the line and became romantic or sexual?

 

Yes: 62%

No: 36%

Unsure: 2%

3. Who is more likely to misinterpret the intimacy of friendship for sexual desire?

 

Men: 64%

Women: 25%

Unsure: 11%

4. Is it possible to fall in love with someone who first enters your life as a friend?

 

Yes: 94%

No: 4%

Unsure: 2%

5. Do you hope that when you do fall in love, your partner will have started out as your friend?

 

Yes: 71%

No: 9%

Unsure: 20%

6. Who is better at keeping sex out of a platonic relationship?

 

Men: 13%

Women: 67%

Unsure: 20%

 

[Eva]

 

TRUTH #5

 

It's not all about sex

 

"In reality, sex isn't always on the agenda," says Werking. "That could be due to sexual orientation, lack of physical attraction or involvement in another romantic relationship." After all, even friends who are attracted to each other may also recognize that qualities they tolerate in a friendship wouldn't necessarily work in a serious romantic relationship. And after years of considering someone as a friend, it often becomes difficult to see a cross-sex pal as a romantic possibility.

 

Of pairs that do face the question of lust, those that decide early on to bypass an uncertain romantic relationship are more likely to have an enduring friendship, says Werking. One study published in the Journal of Social and Personal Relationships by Walid Afifi, Ph.D., of Penn State University, showed that of more than 300 college students surveyed, 67 percent reported having had sex with a friend. Interestingly, 56 percent of those subjects did not transition the friendship into a romantic relationship, suggesting that they preferred friendship over sex.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder those 67% that had sex with a friend, some could have been their roommate, or they were too drunk at a party that they could care less, or maybe since they were at a party, having a good time, and since they felt more comfortable having sex with their friend rather than a stranger.....

Edited August 9, 2007 by konfetka

[Anonymouse]

In response to what Em124 posted: it amazes how deep women want to believe that men and women can be friends. It defies logic and rationality as to what lengths women will go to make themselves believe that men and women can be friends. They will type out thousands of words in hundreds of sentences in nice neat packed articles to make themselves convinced that they can be friends with men. Despite all the valiant efforts, it is a chimera.

 

All things considered, men and women cannot be friends minus a few exceptions. Exceptions do not disprove the rule, because the rule still stands. Make no mistake about it. Any heterosexual alpha male has one thing in mind, and that is to pump as many females as he possibly can (or date or be with, etc.). I know this is discomforting for most women, but that is the truth and that is how men think.

 

Those guy friends that you do have, are the nice guys, or either gay. Being nice, they usually lack the alpha male status, are probably not very attractive, maybe on the effeminate side, to put it short, they just don't know how to close the deal. Believe me, if they could, they would jump on the opportunity. Women do not kid yourselves. You give any of these guys a chance in a longshot and watch most of them take it.

Edited August 10, 2007 by Anonymouse

[Anonymouse]

TRUTH #5

 

It's not all about sex

 

"In reality, sex isn't always on the agenda," says Werking. "That could be due to sexual orientation, lack of physical attraction or involvement in another romantic relationship." After all, even friends who are attracted to each other may also recognize that qualities they tolerate in a friendship wouldn't necessarily work in a serious romantic relationship.

 

What I highlighted in bold are the exceptions. In no way should this article try to pass this off as the rule.

 

And after years of considering someone as a friend, it often becomes difficult to see a cross-sex pal as a romantic possibility.

 

Surely a woman must have written this article because only a woman would ever make such a silly statement. A guy can never give a damn about how these differences might impede in a "romantic relationship". If he just wants to pork, he won't care about these differences. He just wants one thing.

[Takoush]

In response to what Em124 posted: it amazes how deep women want to believe that men and women can be friends. It defies logic and rationality as to what lengths women will go to make themselves believe that men and women can be friends. They will type out thousands of words in hundreds of sentences in nice neat packed articles to make themselves convinced that they can be friends with men. Despite all the valiant efforts, it is a chimera.

 

All things considered, men and women cannot be friends minus a few exceptions. Exceptions do not disprove the rule, because the rule still stands. Make no mistake about it. Any heterosexual alpha male has one thing in mind, and that is to pump as many females as he possibly can (or date or be with, etc.). I know this is discomforting for most women, but that is the truth and that is how men think.

 

Those guy friends that you do have, are the nice guys, or either gay. Being nice, they usually lack the alpha male status, are probably not very attractive, maybe on the effeminate side, to put it short, they just don't know how to close the deal. Believe me, if they could, they would jump on the opportunity. Women do not kid yourselves. You give any of these guys a chance in a longshot and watch most of them take it.

 

As much as I'd hate to admit it; but I am also in the belief that you would be right. I am obviously talking with the woman perspective; as we categorize a male friend or a "lover" friend and we could stick to it. But especially if a woman is very pretty, gorgeous and also bright, forget it; she would not be able to have a male platonic friendship with a macho guy for long. He will want her in bed. I would have to agree with you Arman.

 

 

[nairi]

Why this sharp distinction between men and women? Women are as sexually active as men, and they will grab the opportunity as much as men would do. If a women rejects a man's sexual desire, it is because she is not interested, and not because she wants to stay friends. For why would a woman pass a potentially successful relationship with a loving, caring, attractive man for the sake of friendship?

 

And indeed, the one thing on a woman's mind is creating a family with the best man she can find. And she will not settle for second best. So all you men who have heard the phrase: "I really like you, but not like that" from a woman, know that she truly means: "You suck as a husband and father and I ain't sharing any of my precious eggs with you."

[DominO]

Why this sharp distinction between men and women? Women are as sexually active as men, and they will grab the opportunity as much as men would do. If a women rejects a man's sexual desire, it is because she is not interested, and not because she wants to stay friends. For why would a woman pass a potentially successful relationship with a loving, caring, attractive man for the sake of friendship?

 

And indeed, the one thing on a woman's mind is creating a family with the best man she can find. And she will not settle for second best. So all you men who have heard the phrase: "I really like you, but not like that" from a woman, know that she truly means: "You suck as a husband and father and I ain't sharing any of my precious eggs with you."

 

You are not being honest with yourself, the most prominent factor in choosing mate in women is subconscious, there is no rational as to say ''this person will be a good husband, a good father.'' When a woman rationalize, it is a marriage of ''reason'' which is different. A male may have all the attributes to be an exellent potential husband who could bring security and a very good potential father but can still be just a friend, someone else could be a very bad potential husband and very bad potantial father and will attract. What matters is some features chosen unconsciously by women which are associated with some genes. Nature has not given what you claim because matting goal in nature is procreation, so what is good for procration is the main reasons of sexual behaviors.

 

Women can differenciate friends and possible mate partner, while men can not most of the time. That is because unconsciously they choose so factors, and that they are more selective at that because they will be stuck for 9 months, while men are less selective, in nature their goal was to mate with as much women as they could. So their behavior is different, they do not have the same selection. This of course is an exaggeration, because in the evolution, humans adhered to strategy K rather than r, by making less babies and carring more about them and increasing the survival of children. But for men this is a more recent evolution than women.

 

Women need male friends, in nature the mate partener had to go hunting with his friends and return, there should have been relations with the mate partner of friends which is not sexual. On the other hand, male need less for the survival of the specy female friends and just friends, because their evolution from the jungle man mating with the maximum amount of women to a more K strategist is more recent. It is behavioral, that's all.

[nairi]

You are not being honest with yourself, the most prominent factor in choosing mate in women is subconscious, there is no rational as to say ''this person will be a good husband, a good father.''

 

For many women, this happens subconsciously. I know better, that's why I can put words to that conscious emotion called "being in love" or "not interested."

 

The point is that it is just as hard for women to refrain themselves from feeling sexually attracted to a man as it is for men.

[DominO]

For many women, this happens subconsciously. I know better, that's why I can put words to that conscious emotion called "being in love" or "not interested."

 

The point is that it is just as hard for women to refrain themselves from feeling sexually attracted to a man as it is for men.

 

Not necessarly, the subconscious choosing does not take solely the ''good husband'' and ''good father'' into consideration, it places a huge importance on the ''does he have features which are good to have for my upcomming children''. A Muscular man will attract no matter if he has behaviors to be a good father or good husband, because he has gene features which are good to protect her in nature and the children of this muscular man will be more miscular and survive better in nature and will be successful (mating more and having more kids).

 

On your second point, no and this defies logic, testosterone is a much more potent hormone for sexual attraction than estrogene. Women exitment is different than male, and I don't want to enter in the 18+ again, but lets just say that male have more sexual attraction tha female and that there are reasons for this behavior in nature. It is the male who had to fight against other males, and choose before being chosen by women. Women control was ''spermicide'' sort of way, an after the act. Female initial attraction to male is not always sexuel, even though that attractions goal could be for later mating. So it is actually harder for a male to not be attracted. Check porno consumers, self stimulation etc., more male than female.

 

[nairi]

Not necessarly, the subconscious choosing does not take solely the ''good husband'' and ''good father'' into consideration,

 

Yes, it does. And everything else that goes with it, including looks, social status, intelligence, sense of humor, etc.

 

That many women make mistakes is also a fact, but it doesn't take away the fact that what she is primarily looking for is the best out of the bunch, in order to start a family. That is her primary goal.

 

Yes, women tend to be pickier than men, but once they are attracted, it is as hard for them to restrain themselves as it is for men.

 

As to the rest: you are not taking into consideration that women have not had the right to explore their sexuality in patriarchal societies. When given the freedom, women can get as aroused as men when looking at porn (provided it is "female-friendly" to whatever extent that is possible--i.e. non-rape porn), at a sexy actor in a film, and a friendly colleague. And I'll tell you one more secret: around ovulation, a woman's sexuality is perhaps ten times that of a man. And don't get me started on masturbation. The main reason why it is still a taboo for women is because they have been instilled with shame, and not because they don't feel the necessity, or don't enjoy it once they discover it.

[Takoush]

Not necessarly, the subconscious choosing does not take solely the ''good husband'' and ''good father'' into consideration, it places a huge importance on the ''does he have features which are good to have for my upcomming children''. A Muscular man will attract no matter if he has behaviors to be a good father or good husband, because he has gene features which are good to protect her in nature and the children of this muscular man will be more miscular and survive better in nature and will be successful (mating more and having more kids).

 

On your second point, no and this defies logic, testosterone is a much more potent hormone for sexual attraction than estrogene. Women exitment is different than male, and I don't want to enter in the 18+ again, but lets just say that male have more sexual attraction than a female and that there are reasons for this behavior in nature. It is the male who had to fight against other males, and choose before being chosen by women. Women control was ''spermicide'' sort of way, an after the act. Female initial attraction to male is not always sexuel, even though that attractions goal could be for later mating. So it is actually harder for a male to not be attracted. Check porno consumers, self stimulation etc., more male than female.

Previously I agreed to Domino's bringing forth the reality about women categorizing men into into sections: "the marrying type men" versus "the friend to be type men". I stand by what Domino says as he further explains above, especially the highlighted section as to why women get attracted to men and categorize them into the marrying type. Of course women are sexual animals just like a man; but they weigh a man with their instincts and then the brains follow as they surely prefer the attractive muscular macho protective types vs. to the not so handsome not so muscular and not so macho types. Indeed a muscular type will attract a woman any time vs. if he has nice personality or "good guy" type to marry. It's a natural instict for women to go for the macho muscular types. If in doubt take a concesus and you'll find out for yourselves.

 

Though with the second paragraph, I am in the belief that women have just as much sexual attraction towards males as males do towards females. Though it is true that men do fight amongst themselves for a desired woman and then the woman's wanting will follow; but not in all cases. There are many instances that women will go to great lengths to bait the man that they so desire and if she does (watch out) in most cases she'll get the man she wants; because she is determined. But women do get attracted to males just as much as males do towards females. But Domino you say that females do get attracted to muscular males also because they weigh his protective side to take care of them and their offsprings for later. Well maybe that is in the subconscuous into the female's mind as well.

 

 

 

 

[Anonymouse]

Yes, it does. And everything else that goes with it, including looks, social status, intelligence, sense of humor, etc.

 

That many women make mistakes is also a fact, but it doesn't take away the fact that what she is primarily looking for is the best out of the bunch, in order to start a family. That is her primary goal.

 

Yes, women tend to be pickier than men, but once they are attracted, it is as hard for them to restrain themselves as it is for men.

 

As to the rest: you are not taking into consideration that women have not had the right to explore their sexuality in patriarchal societies. When given the freedom, women can get as aroused as men when looking at porn (provided it is "female-friendly" to whatever extent that is possible--i.e. non-rape porn), at a sexy actor in a film, and a friendly colleague. And I'll tell you one more secret: around ovulation, a woman's sexuality is perhaps ten times that of a man. And don't get me started on masturbation. The main reason why it is still a taboo for women is because they have been instilled with shame, and not because they don't feel the necessity, or don't enjoy it once they discover it.

 

No thread is complete without a feminist interjection.

[nairi]

No thread is complete without a feminist interjection.

 

What's your point? That female sexuality is in reality non-existent, but a myth that modern feminists have created in an attempt to become like men?

[Anonymouse]

What's your point? That female sexuality is in reality non-existent, but a myth that modern feminists have created in an attempt to become like men?

 

Assumptions are the mother of all phuck ups, as someone once said.

 

My point was only what I stated, you made a feminist interjection with the feminist lingo and male oppression and other modifier words that are usually prevalent in feminist posts.

 

I never said anything about female sexuality or of its existence or non-existence.

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Yes, it does. And everything else that goes with it, including looks, social status, intelligence, sense of humor, etc.

 

That many women make mistakes is also a fact, but it doesn't take away the fact that what she is primarily looking for is the best out of the bunch, in order to start a family. That is her primary goal.

 

Yes, women tend to be pickier than men, but once they are attracted, it is as hard for them to restrain themselves as it is for men.

 

As to the rest: you are not taking into consideration that women have not had the right to explore their sexuality in patriarchal societies. When given the freedom, women can get as aroused as men when looking at porn (provided it is "female-friendly" to whatever extent that is possible--i.e. non-rape porn), at a sexy actor in a film, and a friendly colleague. And I'll tell you one more secret: around ovulation, a woman's sexuality is perhaps ten times that of a man. And don't get me started on masturbation. The main reason why it is still a taboo for women is because they have been instilled with shame, and not because they don't feel the necessity, or don't enjoy it once they discover it.

 

"As to the rest: you are not taking into consideration that women have not had the right to explore their sexuality in patriarchal societies."

 

 

This is one of the biggest lie I have ever heard. Women in harem know more about sex than most women from the socalled open societies. Even in the armenian reality the role of women is different from what they try to present to the outside world.

 

 

 

"That many women make mistakes is also a fact, but it doesn't take away the fact that what she is primarily looking for is the best out of the bunch, in order to start a family. That is her primary goal."

 

'Best out of the bunch"? What if you stop the ''arevtur' and start to look for someone who can bring 'berkranq' u 'nerdashankutyun' to your life?

Cankacats mijavayrum/hamakargum baroyahoqebanakan mtnolort@ dzevavorvum e knoj kogmic. If needed to claim credit, most women say 'if it wasn't for women, men would still live in the cave'...when it comes to relationships, the 'primary goal' for the kind of women you have mentioned, has become to find a working donkey. Who got time 'to explore their sexuality' when your primary goal is 'your social status'!?!

 

I bet you either have no man next to you...or the one you got is either too aggressive or too quiet.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[Anonymouse]

"As to the rest: you are not taking into consideration that women have not had the right to explore their sexuality in patriarchal societies."

This is one of the biggest lie I have ever heard. Women in harem know more about sex than most women from the socalled open societies. Even in the armenian reality the role of women is different from what they try to present to the outside world.

"That many women make mistakes is also a fact, but it doesn't take away the fact that what she is primarily looking for is the best out of the bunch, in order to start a family. That is her primary goal."

 

'Best out of the bunch"? What if you stop the ''arevtur' and start to look for someone who can bring 'berkranq' u 'nerdashankutyun' to your life?

Cankacats mijavayrum/hamakargum baroyahoqebanakan mtnolort@ dzevavorvum e knoj kogmic. If needed to claim credit, most women say 'if it wasn't for women, men would still live in the cave'...when it comes to relationships, the 'primary goal' for the kind of women you have mentioned, has become to find a working donkey. Who got time 'to explore their sexuality' when your primary goal is 'your social status'!?!

 

I bet you either have no man next to you...or the one you got is either too aggressive or too quiet.

 

Be careful now, you have insulted the the resident feminazi of the forum simply by disagreeing. If you are not careful, she might smite you with her broomstick.

Edited August 13, 2007 by Anonymouse

[nairi]

"As to the rest: you are not taking into consideration that women have not had the right to explore their sexuality in patriarchal societies."

This is one of the biggest lie I have ever heard. Women in harem know more about sex than most women from the socalled open societies. Even in the armenian reality the role of women is different from what they try to present to the outside world.

 

What is the Armenian reality? Virgin till marriage and a red apple to prove it?

 

'Best out of the bunch"? What if you stop the ''arevtur' and start to look for someone who can bring 'berkranq' u 'nerdashankutyun' to your life?

 

It's an instinct. This is where bio plays a role. Women only have that many eggs to share. They're not going to share it with the first loser they meet.

 

If needed to claim credit, most women say 'if it wasn't for women, men would still live in the cave'...when it comes to relationships, the 'primary goal' for the kind of women you have mentioned, has become to find a working donkey. Who got time 'to explore their sexuality' when your primary goal is 'your social status'!?!

 

Why do you focus solely on "social status"? It's a combination of factors, and social status is one of them. The reason: because a man with a higher income will be able to take care of the family financially. It can't get any simpler than that.

 

I bet you either have no man next to you...or the one you got is either too aggressive or too quiet.

 

I don't have a man indeed. And that is my personal choice.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

"What is the Armenian reality? Virgin till marriage and a red apple to prove it? "

 

What does red apply got to do with the role the 'armenian women' have in the family and the picture they try to present to the outside world? You made a claim that 'women have not had the right to explore their sexuality in patriarchal societies', and I simply told you it's not true.

 

 

 

"It's an instinct. This is where bio plays a role. Women only have that many eggs to share. They're not going to share it with the first loser they meet."

 

 

Not according to the statement you made earlier. This is what you said "it doesn't take away the fact that what she is primarily looking for is the best out of the bunch, in order to start a family'. You made it sound as if you were in an 'arevtur' for a husband. 'Primarliy looking for the best' and 'instinct' are not the same thing. Again, your 'primary goal' in this case is to 'look for the best out of the bunch' who got money, social status, looks, ect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Why do you focus solely on "social status"? It's a combination of factors, and social status is one of them."

 

I didn't. I just used your words against you.

 

 

 

 

 

The reason: because a man with a higher income will be able to take care of the family financially. It can't get any simpler than that.

 

 

Hunting for 'a man with a higher income' and getting attach to one with an 'instinct' got nothing in common.

 

 

 

 

"I don't have a man indeed. And that is my personal choice."

 

 

 

I rest my case '

 

 

 

[nairi]

What does red apply got to do with the role the 'armenian women' have in the family and the picture they try to present to the outside world? You made a claim that 'women have not had the right to explore their sexuality in patriarchal societies', and I simply told you it's not true.

 

Are you a woman? Are you Armenian? Are you an Armenian woman in a traditional Armenian family? Does your brother forbid you to date? Does your mother tell you that sex is a chore, just like cleaning the house and cooking, and something you just have to bear while your husband gets his kicks? If not, then you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I have also never claimed that only women have been sexually oppressed in patriarchal societies. Ironically, so have men!

 

"It's an instinct. This is where bio plays a role. Women only have that many eggs to share. They're not going to share it with the first loser they meet."

Not according to the statement you made earlier. This is what you said "it doesn't take away the fact that what she is primarily looking for is the best out of the bunch, in order to start a family'. You made it sound as if you were in an 'arevtur' for a husband. 'Primarliy looking for the best' and 'instinct' are not the same thing. Again, your 'primary goal' in this case is to 'look for the best out of the bunch' who got money, social status, looks, ect.

 

It's not my fault you put words into my mouth and completely misinterpret what I write.

 

I said: many women are incapable of putting words to their instincts. I can, therefore I spell it out.

In other words, a woman will say: "Instinctively, I fell in love with him. I don't know why." When you look at who she fell in love with, you'll see that nine out of ten times, he is the "best out of the bunch," because that is what women are instinctively drawn to.

 

"Why do you focus solely on "social status"? It's a combination of factors, and social status is one of them."

 

I didn't. I just used your words against you.

 

And in what way are you using them against me?

 

The reason: because a man with a higher income will be able to take care of the family financially. It can't get any simpler than that.

Hunting for 'a man with a higher income' and getting attach to one with an 'instinct' got nothing in common.

 

You have misunderstood what I have said. Go back and reread, think, and only then reply.

[DominO]

Nairi, you have taken all this deal of continuing with the main thesis that women were hidding their sexuality.

 

In an optimum environment male are more sexual than female. That was my whole point.

[nairi]

In an optimum environment male are more sexual than female. That was my whole point.

 

And I question that.