Germanahay

[Arpa]

GERMANAHAY?

The Germany of today is not the Kaiser/Ottoman alliance one. Neither it is te Germany of the , “all those without yellow skin and blue eyes please get out or go to the gas chambers”- Nazis. You mean they would rather have turks to clean their toilets than Jews who controlled their banks?

A very interesting article from AZG.

Why did I choose the title “germnahay” instead of the oft quoted term “turkahay” below?

We have spoken about that term before and I have not hidden my contempt of it. What does it really mean? To me, tat term is not only an oxymoron, it is a contradiction in terms. Doe it mean there are turk Armenians or Armenian turks by birth? Or does it mean “christian turks”? Did we not die simply because we rejected such appellations?

Enough venting.

Let’s see some of the highlights from below.

It is intimated that the danger of assimilation in Germany is not so much integration into German society but that the so called “tourkahays” would associate with the Turks of Germany rater than associate wit other Armenian from other Diasporan countries, mainly those from Hayastan.. The writer infers to such statements by those from Turkey saying; “You, (meaning expatriates from Yerevan Province) are here on a temporary basis, as you will eventually return to your “native country”. But, we are not from Yerevan. We are from Istanbul and Malatia. We cannot return to “our homeland”, therefore we will stick with our “compatriots” from those places. Besides, we still have family and friends in those places, the reason why we cannot badmouth Istanbul and Ankara.” HELLO! Patriarch Mutafoglu!!**

There is also reference about more recent arrivals from places like Lebanon etc. who as a rule stay neutral I the debate. An interesting reference to “parskahays”, who, according to the writer generally stick around with those from Yerevan Province, simply based on linguistic affinity.

Let’s here your comments.

Is it much different in “hayashat “ communities like Glendale.

Note. Contrary to te assertions, I have found Armenians from Turkey even more critical of the affairs and more staunchly critical of Ankara’s position.

** Pleas note the passage where it says that many survived (in Turkey) with Turkish sounding surnames like "kepoghlu", meaning շան զավակ, շունշանորդի but promptly armenianized them once they felt safe.

AZG Armenian Daily #137, 21/07/2007

Դրսում

ՏԵՂԱՅԻՆ ԲՆՈՒՅԹԻ ՀԱՅՐԵՆԱՍԻՐՈՒԹՅՈՒՆԸ ՄԱՐԴԿԱՆՑ ԲԱԺԱՆՈՒՄ Է ՆԱԵՎ ՍՓՅՈՒՌՔՈՒՄ

Գերմանահայ համայնքի թուրքահայերին սպառնում է ոչ թե գերմանացիների, այլ թուրքերի հետ ձուլվելու վտանգը

Սփյուռքահայ համայնքների մասին խոսելիս մենք սովորաբար դրանք ներկայացնում ենք անխախտ կաղապարներով` եթե ոչ միաձույլ ու մոբիլ, ապա գոնե առանց լուրջ հակասությունների ու խմորումների, Հայ դատի ու ցեղասպանության համար անընդմեջ մտահոգ, կարոտախտով տառապող եւ երկրորդ, երրորդ սերունդն արդեն ձուլման հանձնած կառույցներ: Նույնիսկ ազգագրագետներն ու հոգեբանները, սոցիոլոգներն ու հասարակագետներն ուշադրություն չեն դարձնում կամ հազվադեպ են հիշատակում կոնկրետ համայնքների ներսում տեղի ունեցող, տարաբնույթ ձուլումների համար սպառնալի շատ ավելի խոր ու բազմաշերտ իրողություններ: Բեռլինի Ազատ համալսարանի Ազգագրության ինստիտուտի դոկտորանտ Աննա Հարությունյանը փորձել է պարզաբանել հենց այդպիսի գործընթացներ, որոնք հայերին հեռու են պահում ոչ միայն Հայաստանից, այլեւ նույնիսկ այդ երկրի ներսում ապրող հայ համայնքի այլ խմբերից:

Գերմանիայում այսօր ապրում է 3-4 հազար հայ` 2 խումբ, մեկը եկեղեցու հովանավորության տակ, մյուսը` Մայնի Ֆրանկֆուրտում գործող Գերմանահայերի խորհրդի: Այստեղ եւս, ինչպես վերջին տարիներին Հայաստանում, մարդկանց միջեւ սահմանագծեր է առաջացնում տեղային բնույթի հայրենասիրությունը, հայաստանցի, պարսկաստանցի, թուրքահայ կամ այլ արմատների պատկանելությունը: Ըստ ազգագրագետի, անգամ մարդկային սովորական շփումների, մտերմանալու ու հաղորդակցման պատնեշներ է առաջացնում նրանց մշակութային տարբեր ինքնությունների պատկանելու հանգամանքը: Գերմանիայում եւս, ինչպես աշխարհի հայկական մեծ համայնք ունեցող որոշ երկրներում, հակամարտություն ու գրեթե թշնամական վերաբերմունք է առկա Հայաստանից գաղթած հայերի եւ մյուսների միջեւ: Ի տարբերություն այլ երկրներից Գերմանիա եկած հայերի, հայաստանցիներն այս երկիրն այդպես էլ չեն ընկալում որպես իրենց երկրորդ հայրենիքը: Նույնիսկ համայնքային միության մեջ միավորվելը նրանց համար Հայաստանի հետ կապվելու, այստեղից տեղեկություններ ստանալու միջոց է ու նպատակ: Մյուսները նրանց մեղադրում են ասելով, թե ձեզ համայնք պետք չէ, մեկ է, վաղ թե ուշ դուք ուզում եք վերադառնալ հայրենիք: Գերմանիայում ապրող տարածնունդ հայերի միջեւ անջրպետով առանձնանում են հատկապես թուրքահայերը: Նրանց համար իրենց կորցրած հայրենիքը Արեւմտյան Հայաստանն է, ուր վերադառնալու հույսեր չունեն, բայց ապրում են այնտեղ, այլ ոչ Հայաստան վերադառնալու փափագով: Գերմանահայ համայնքում, ընդհանրապես, ամենաբազմաքանակը հայաստանցիներն ու թուրքահայերն են: Հաջորդը 70-ական թվականների իսլամական հեղափոխությունից հետո այստեղ եկած պարսկահայերն են, հետո` քաղաքացիական պատերազմից փախած լիբանանահայերը, որոնք նույնպես հետաքրքրական վարքագիծ են դրսեւորում: Նրանք երկուսն էլ մի տեսակ դիտորդի դերում են, թեեւ պարսկահայերի մեջ ակնհայտ է ձգտումը դեպի հայաստանցիները:

Պարսկահայերի համար եւս, ի տարբերություն թուրքահայերի, կորցրած հայրենիքը ոչ թե Պարսկաստանն է, այլ Հայաստանը, նաեւ լեզվական (բարբառային) հարազատությունը նրանց հակում է դեպի Հայաստանից եկած հայերը:

Ազգագրագետը նշում է, որ թուրքահայերի դեզինտեգրումը համայնքի ներսում, հանգում է, ցավոք, այլ բացասական հետեւանքների: Նրանց սպառնում է ոչ թե գերմանացիների, այլ տեղացի թուրքերի հետ ձուլվելու վտանգը: Իսկ թուրքականը Գերմանիայի ամենամեծ համայնքներից է: Թուրքահայերի եւ տեղացի թուրքերի հարաբերությունները ջերմ-բարեկամական են, նրանք ընտանիքներով մտերիմ են, թուրքահայերը եւս խոսում են թուրքերեն: Հետաքրքրական մի մանրամասն եւս. Գերմանիայի թուրքահայերն այստեղ են եկել հիմնականում 60-ական թվականներին, ոչ թե ցեղասպանությունից հետո: Եվ միանգամայն տարբեր է նրանց վերաբերմունքը նաեւ Մեծ եղեռնի փաստի հանդեպ: Եթե հայաստանցիներն ամեն ապրիլի 24-ի դեսպանատան առաջ ծաղիկներով եւ ցույցով արտահայտում են իրենց ցավոտ հիշողությունը, ապա թուրքահայերը չեն մասնակցում այդ կարգի միջոցառումներին: Իհարկե, առկա է նաեւ այն հանգամանքը, որ նրանցից շատերի հարազատներն այսօր էլ ապրում են Թուրքիայում, եւ իրենց ակտիվությունը կարող է վնասել նրանց: Այդ օրերին նրանք հիշում են նաեւ, որ եղեռնից հետո չեն լքել Թուրքիան: Նրանք շարունակել են ապրել այստեղ թուրքական ազգանուններով, բայց Գերմանիա գաղթելուց հետո կրկին վերադարձրել են հայկական անունները:

Նրանց ներամփոփմանը, ազգագրագետի դիտարկումներով, վերջին տարիներին սկսել է նպաստել մի նոր իրողություն եւս: Հայաստանի անկախացումից հետո հատկապես Բեռլին ուսանելու են գալիս հայ երիտասարդներ, որոնք նախորդ ժամանակաշրջանի գաղթածների համեմատ առավել ինտելեկտուալ որակ են ներկայացնում: Թուրքահայերն ավելի են համախմբվում, մի տեսակ ընդդիմություն ստեղծելով նաեւ այդ որակի դեմ:

ԿԱՐԻՆԵ ԴԱՆԻԵԼՅԱՆ

© Copyright AZG

Edited July 21, 2007 by Arpa

[Johannes]

***Հայ, կամ՝ ???Հայ կամ՝ $$$Հայ կարող ենք ասել եթէ հայը այդ վայրերում ապրել ու գործել է առնուազն 50 տարի:

Մինչ այդ նախկին բնակավայրի բոյրը մնում է իր վրան:

Իսկ արեւմուտքում հայը հազիւ թէ գոյատեւի այդքան ժամանակ, որպէս հայ՝ առանց արեւելքից եկած թարմ արեան:

Հարց ! Գերմանիայում հայ գաղութը ինքզինք նորոգու՞մ է իր ուժերով: Այլ խօսքով՝ ինքն իր իւղով տապակւու՞մ է: Ուրիշ խօսքով՝ եթէ Հայաստանից եւ այլ հայախօս գաղութներից նոր հայեր չգնան չտեղաւորուեն, Գերմանիոյ հայերը որքա՞ն կը դիմանան որպէս հայ: Եթէ չեն դիմանալու, ուրեմն չկայ «գերմանահայ» հայի տեսակ:

 

 

 

[gamavor]

Give them some time Arpa! And give some time to Hayastantsis. Turkification is an indirect result of lack of positive outlook of Armenians from Armenia. Once Armenia gets back on her feet a lot of things will change.

 

I personally find the designation Turkish-Armenian, Bulgarian-Armenian, Romanian-Armenian, Argentinean-Armenian, etc. etc., quite WRONG, with two notable exceptions - American-Armenian and Russian Armenian (in the case of the later to mean the Armenians settled in Russia prior to October Revolution). For all the rest the proper address should be Armenian from.....respective country.

 

[Arpa]

Give them some time Arpa! And give some time to Hayastantsis. Turkification is an indirect result of lack of positive outlook of Armenians from Armenia. Once Armenia gets back on her feet a lot of things will change.

 

I personally find the designation Turkish-Armenian, Bulgarian-Armenian, Romanian-Armenian, Argentinean-Armenian, etc. etc., quite WRONG, with two notable exceptions - American-Armenian and Russian Armenian (in the case of the later to mean the Armenians settled in Russia prior to October Revolution). For all the rest the proper address should be Armenian from.....respective country.

Yes Gamavor, you are so right.

When I wrotr the above about "yurkhay" being an oxymoron, I meant to add that "turkahay", an Armenian turk" and "turkiya-hay" , an Armenian from Turkey are not necesarily the same.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Arpa

[DeLaLa]

@Arpa

 

The Germany of today is not the Kaiser/Ottoman alliance one. Neither it is te Germany of the , “all those without yellow skin and blue eyes please get out or go to the gas chambers”- Nazis.

 

thank you shat shat arpajan , for these breaking news !

 

“all those without yellow skin and blue eyes please get out or go to the gas chambers”

 

white ! not yellow ! arpa ... it looks to me like the yellow smilies in hyeforum have manipulated you .

 

You mean they would rather have turks to clean their toilets than Jews who controlled their banks?

 

not all 4.5 million turks in germany clean toilets and jews do not and have not conrolled the banks of germany . those are pure speculations of yours .

 

Why did I choose the title “germnahay” instead of the oft quoted term “turkahay” below?

We have spoken about that term before and I have not hidden my contempt of it. What does it really mean? To me, tat term is not only an oxymoron, it is a contradiction in terms. Doe it mean there are turk Armenians or Armenian turks by birth? Or does it mean “christian turks”? Did we not die simply because we rejected such appellations?

Enough venting.

 

every armenian diasporants roots are from turkey originally , but maybe you are a special exception and your greatgrandparents are exotic diasporants originally from planet moon .

dont break your brain with terms like above ... we are all armenian and some of us have a turkish citizenship , end of the story .

 

It is intimated that the danger of assimilation in Germany is not so much integration into German society but that the so called “tourkahays” would associate with the Turks of Germany rater than associate wit other Armenian from other Diasporan countries, mainly those from Hayastan..

 

"rather than associate with other Armenian from other Diasporan countries, mainly those from Hayastan.." aha , arpajan i just learned another new fascinating breaking news from you today ... interesting ... since when is a armenian with a armenian citizenship a diasporant ??? armenia-armenians came to germany only because of bad economical reasons in armenia . you should become historian and promovate in armenian history .

 

“You, (meaning expatriates from Yerevan Province) are here on a temporary basis, as you will eventually return to your “native country”.

 

they do not return on their own will. armenia-armenians have refugee status in germany and most of them are sent back after a few years by the german government .

 

Besides, we still have family and friends in those places, the reason why we cannot badmouth Istanbul and Ankara.” HELLO! Patriarch Mutafoglu!!**

 

i suppose you also read more serious newspapers too once in a while and not only crappy articles as the one you posted n this thread . so , i next suppose , that hopefully you know who is the number one on top of the killing-list of ultranationalist turks : PATRIARCH MESROB MUTAFYAN ! its just like the days where Hrant Dink was still alive and a loooot of armenians around the world chritisized him of being a "TURKEY-FRIEND" ... until he got shot with 3 bullets ... after his death the armenians who barked like dogs got to know who hrant dink really was and what changes he made . maybe , arpa, you are waiting for our patriarch to get shot too , to realize what it is like to be armenian in turkey .

 

There is also reference about more recent arrivals from places like Lebanon etc. who as a rule stay neutral I the debate. An interesting reference to “parskahays”, who, according to the writer generally stick around with those from Yerevan Province, simply based on linguistic affinity.

 

there are rarely armenians from lebanon and iran in germany . at present the most are armenia-armenians , second most are armenians from iraq , and third most are from turkey .

"linguistic affinity" ayo sure lol ... shat nmanen haha , thats probably why every yerevantsi after saying hello and how are you and blabla always grin and say "ha , ha ayo ayo " to the barskahays and then they turn to me and say "LaLajan ban chi hasgatsa"

 

Contrary to te assertions, I have found Armenians from Turkey even more critical of the affairs and more staunchly critical of Ankara’s position.

 

all armenians(not only armenians from turkey) on this world want a genocide recognition from turkey !

 

@Gamavor

 

Turkification is an indirect result of lack of positive outlook of Armenians from Armenia.

 

please explain what exactly you mean by your comment above . thank you .

if turkey is so bad Gamavorig , why then 70.000 armenian citizens work and live there at present ?

 

I personally find the designation Turkish-Armenian, Bulgarian-Armenian, Romanian-Armenian, Argentinean-Armenian, etc. etc., quite WRONG, with two notable exceptions - American-Armenian and Russian Armenian (in the case of the later to mean the Armenians settled in Russia prior to October Revolution). For all the rest the proper address should be Armenian from.....respective country.

 

we diaspora are all originally from turkey , x-turkish citizens ! end

 

@Both of you

 

you know in german there is a very nice expression for your oppinions you wrote down and posted " Gehirnfurz " ! translated into english is : "Brainfart"

 

(;

Edited July 22, 2007 by DeLaLa

[gamavor]

Our ancestors have never been turkish citizens. They were Ottoman citizens murdered by their own government. So, to say and claim that Armenian Diaspora has roots in Turkey is a big turkish lie. Another big turkish lie is the number 70 000 Armenians working and living (enjoying) Turkey. Yaaa, those are BolsaHyes, rahter the remnants of Bolsahyes. This is what has left out of 2 million Armenians.

 

As to "what is turkified Armenian" - just have a look in the mirror, although my wild guess is that you are Mongol mutt.

 

[nairi]

I also know of a Germanahay from Turkey, who arrived in Germany at a young age and could not speak a word of Armenian. It is in Germany that she learned of her Armenian roots, history, and language. Two years ago, she officially changed her last name from a Turkish one to an Armenian one. Those Armenians also exist.

 

As for the rest, the difference is not so great with Holland. Although there too, there are individual Armenians. I know of a few Armenians from Turkey who spend most of their time with Armenians, even if not all of them speak Armenian. But then you've got the segragating Armenians--those living in Almelo and connected with, yes, the Dashnaks. So much so, that the independent Armenian committee that organized a commemoration in Assen was unable to get a priest for the ceremony. Both priests that would have normally been available claimed that they were not allowed to leave their kusaktsutyun in Almelo. As a result, the Armenians of Assen had to hire a Russian priest!

 

And yes, there are also Armenians from Turkey who have more Turkish friends than Armenian ones, with the excuse that they travel to Turkey regularly. Most of the Armenians from Turkey that I know, however, have left-wing Turkish friends who recognize the Armenian genocide (and there aren't many in Holland). The rest of those "Turks" are actually Kurds.

 

PS: I agree with Gamavor on the designation of Armenian from different parts. What I appreciate most is the designation American-Armenian, as opposed to Armenian-American. I have used American-Armenian and have been corrected, not by Armenians, but by non-Armenians.

[Arpa]

I also know of a Germanahay from Turkey, who arrived in Germany at a young age and could not speak a word of Armenian. It is in Germany that she learned of her Armenian roots, history, and language. Two years ago, she officially changed her last name from a Turkish one to an Armenian one. Those Armenians also exist.

Officially changed her name?

Then. Why do I get people with surnames like Chirkin-oglu (Chirkinian=son of Ugly) argue with me, now that we live in thses free countries, that they don't know how to beautify their names, that those UGLY names have been in their ancestry for centuries.

Chirkinian? Your mother is ugly. You SOB!

You don't believe me? Look here and google to see more;

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0158163/

That it is sacred and has been in their ancestry for ages.

 

WRONG!!!!

 

In defense of Armenians from Turkey. They do promptly amend their surnames as opposed to some of us who after hundred years still maintain those ugly names. Look above again.

Besides, many of them are our staunchest warrioers. Look at Dadrian (from Istanbul), plus some of them are our biggest benefactors. Atinizian (serach and find) come to minds.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Arpa

[DeLaLa]

Our ancestors have never been turkish citizens. They were Ottoman citizens murdered by their own government. So, to say and claim that Armenian Diaspora has roots in Turkey is a big turkish lie. Another big turkish lie is the number 70 000 Armenians working and living (enjoying) Turkey. Yaaa, those are BolsaHyes, rahter the remnants of Bolsahyes. This is what has left out of 2 million Armenians.

 

As to "what is turkified Armenian" - just have a look in the mirror, although my wild guess is that you are Mongol mutt.

 

another brainsfart ? gamavor ? ottomans ----> former turkey !!!

 

"say and claim that Armenian Diaspora has roots in Turkey is a big turkish lie."

gamavor ? where do your greatgrandparents and grandparents come from originally ? where were they born?

 

"Another big turkish lie is the number 70 000 Armenians working and living (enjoying) Turkey"

that is not a lie but the truth ! and thats only the official number ... probably there are more than that in reality . if you think it is a lie , then i give you the advice to fly to istanbul and trabzone and to see yourself . the streets are full of armenia-armenian hookers at night even also in the armenian living areas by now and the bolsohay armenian households are also full with armenia-armenian maids working as nannys or houskeepers . almost all of these armenians live and work illigally in turkey .

 

"Yaaa, those are BolsaHyes, rahter the remnants of Bolsahyes"

in istanbul there are at present 85.000 amenians living who are turkish citizens and 40.000 armenia-armenians . in all of turkey if you also count the forced-assimilated armenians including hamshetsis there are in general about 3 million armenians in turkey at present . i hope it is logic to you that an forced-assimilated armenian in turkey is officially counted as a moslem turk and not a turkish armenian . religion is stated in the turkish ID's and it used to be written also in the passports some 30 years ago.

 

"This is what has left out of 2 million Armenians."

 

oh my god gamavor ... you dont know anything about armenian genocide history do you ? i hope you dot say these things in public too , because i would be ashame of being armenian for úneducated armenians as you are . lol , so for you armenians at genocide almost all 2 million got killed in the ottoman empire but the only 70.000 who survived genocide live in istanbul at present ? ay ay ay .

 

gamavor , you should not hate armenians in turkey but be thankful them ! the largest part from the donations and help is coming from no other than bolsohays at present . bolsohays (including rakel and hrant dink)put thousands and thousands of armenian assimilated children from all over anatolia into armenian boarding schools in istanbul to get back their identity in the last 40 years WHILE other diaspora armenians just thought an assimilated armenian in turkey is a somewhat "lost armenian " or turkified lost armenian . there are also numerous turks these days who do say nowadays "my grandmother was an armenian " . back 30 years a turk was scared to say such statement . i would recommend you gamavor to read Fethiye Cetin's book "My Grandmother" . you can order the book in english, armenian, turkish and french . Fethiye Cetin is at present also the lawyer of the Dink-family in the murder-process .

 

http://www.bolsohays.com/images/market/anneannemarm.jpg

 

 

@nairi

 

yes , there are also a lot of examples like you wrote in germany . i must tell you though that these armenians come from anatolia . a lot of anatolia-armenians who came in the last 20 years to germany are together a lot with armenians from armenia . their children have learned to speak armenian through this way (by constantly playing and growing up with hayastanzi children), which is very good . sometimes i have to smile when i see such kid from anatolia originally who one would expect to speak west-armenian , but they learned perfect east armenian in germany .

 

Officially changed her name?

Then. Why do I get people with surnames like Chirkin-oglu (Chirkinian=son of Ugly) argue with me, now that we live in thses free countries, that they don't know how to beautify their names, that those UGLY names have been in their ancestry for centuries.

 

WRONG!!!!

 

Arpa , there are some good reasons for not changing their names back . one of the good reasons is the military service . and dont think it is as easy as you assume to change surnames back , other than you suppose turkish embassies make it very easy for you . if you change your name back to armenian in turkey then you can count with pure discrimination .

i for example have an armenian surname , used to be a turkish citizen by birth , and in turkey in official papers they purly discriminated me in changing my sex from female to male and also changin my armenian first-name into a similar sounding turkish male name . what follows is the yearly letters i receive from the turkish embassy here , that i have to do my military service in turkey . every year i get this letter. every year i call the embassy and say "you have a mistake in your papers , i am a female and my name is .... and not .... " . they reply always that they will change that in their papers , but they didnt until today . and let me tell you the latest funniest story about this... my mother had to go to the turkish embassy for some papers last year . the first thing they said to her was "your son hasnt done his military service in turkey yet , he has to come here and still do it " ... he continues : "why doesnt he do his military service?" and my mom started laughing and answered back "I dont know why he doesnt want to go to the army service , why dont you ask him personally?" lol

 

Edited July 22, 2007 by DeLaLa

[Arpa]

Dear DeLala, I don’t know if we officially welcomed you aboard.

WELCOME

You will note that I posted the above article with little comment except translating some passages. I am jut the messenger. I still don’t what the intent of the article is. I was hoping for input by our readers .

However. In addition to our “warriors” like Dardian and other benefactors I have also personally met a few from Istanbul who exclusively mix with Turks, have nothing to do with Armenians and Armenian stuff.

I have also been asked by apparently highly educated (PhD) Turks why my ancestors left Turkey. Imagine that Ankara is spending billions of dollars, some of which is my tax money to deceive the word that Armenians were removed from the war zone, out of “harm’s way” but they died of disease blah blah blah…

There is only one word to describe those Turks…

COWARDS!!!!

Gogh sirt@ dogh/ԳՈՂ ՍԻՐՏԸ ԴՈՂ!!!

 

[DeLaLa]

Dear DeLala, I don’t know if we officially welcomed you aboard.

WELCOME

You will note that I posted the above article with little comment except translating some passages. I am jut the messenger. I still don’t what the intent of the article is. I was hoping for input by our readers .

However. In addition to our “warriors” like Dardian and other benefactors I have also personally met a few from Istanbul who exclusively mix with Turks, have nothing to do with Armenians and Armenian stuff.

I have also been asked by apparently highly educated (PhD) Turks why my ancestors left Turkey. Imagine that Ankara is spending billions of dollars, some of which is my tax money to deceive the word that Armenians were removed from the war zone, out of “harm’s way” but they died of disease blah blah blah…

There is only one word to describe those Turks…

COWARDS!!!!

Gogh sirt@ dogh/ԳՈՂ ՍԻՐՏԸ ԴՈՂ!!!

 

Arpa , you didnt only post this article , you also automatically believed this media-source because you maybe didnt know better . but i do understand your behaviour . if i wasnt an armenian in germany and if i was an armenian living somewhere is america and i would read this article , i would probably also believe what is written there .

Arpa , why do you believe that if one is armenian he/she shouldnt have turkish friends ? not every turk is an ultranationalist kemalist esh and a genocide-pinokkio . yes , a lot of them are , but theres also other turks who dont go with the flow.

 

about the taxes Arpa , i do not agree when diaspora or hayastan armenians chritisize bolsohays for working and paying taxes in turkey (to the enemy so to say) . dont forget that all those galactic huge money donations for hayastan come from bolsohays , WHO earned all this money and wealth in no other place than in turkey . yes , they do pay high taxes , but i think it is worth if they are helping armenia very generously in paralell .

 

"deceive the word that Armenians were removed from the war zone, out of “harm’s way” but they died of disease blah blah blah…"

 

Arpa , thats just the classical turkish propaganda machinery . you stated here what turks say to you , but what do you Arpa answer them back? tell us please...

 

 

[Arpa]

Arpa , you didnt only post this article , you also automatically believed this media-source because you maybe didnt know better . but i do understand your behaviour . if i wasnt an armenian in germany and if i was an armenian living somewhere is america and i would read this article , i would probably

Arpa , you didnt only post this article , you also automatically believed this media-source because you maybe didnt know better . but i do understand your behaviour . if i wasnt an armenian in germany and if i was an armenian living somewhere is america and i would read this article , i would probably also believe what is written there .

Did you not see that I posted the article with little comment, except that I translated some of the passages for the benefit of those who cannot see/read the Armenian text. I did not pontificate or editorialize, simply because I did know what to make of it. Was it a professional journalism or an opinion?.

Arpa , why do you believe that if one is armenian he/she shouldnt have turkish friends ? not every turk is an ultranationalist kemalist esh and a genocide-pinokkio . yes , a lot of them are , but theres also other turks who dont go with the flow.

Did not I say that many Bolsahays may be our most “staunch warriors” and our most “generous donors”? I even cited names, there are many more. I personally, intimately knowmany very dear friends (khnami) Bolsahays and I can vouch for their Armenian spirit, even more than people from Yerevan, forget some so called American Armenians, whose main interest is to visit their “ancestors‘ country“, while those from Istanbul may go back for business or family reasons when our American Compatriots will travel all the way from Adana to Ani and refuse to set foot in Yerevan. Did not I say that only a FEW “exclusively” communiacate with Turks and refuse to communicate with Armenians

about the taxes Arpa , i do not agree when diaspora or hayastan armenians chritisize bolsohays for working and paying taxes in turkey (to the enemy so to say) . dont forget that all those galactic huge money donations for hayastan come from bolsohays , WHO earned all this money and wealth in no other place than in turkey . yes , they do pay high taxes , but i think it is worth if they are helping armenia very generously in paralell .

Let me repeat. I did mention our “warriors” and “benefactors” who were born in Istanbul, educated there and learned the trick of the trade of “how to make a buck“.

"deceive the word that Armenians were removed from the war zone, out of “harm’s way” but they died of disease blah blah blah…"

Then, why those “decent turks” get up and tell their government to shut the hell up?

Arpa , thats just the classical turkish propaganda machinery . you stated here what turks say to you , but what do you Arpa answer them back? tell us please…

As to me “answering” them? I have been approached by “highly educated turks“, who after learning that I can speak their language and quite knowledgeable in history, have tried to engage me in historical debates. My answer to them is “I don’t engage in historical debates wit turks” and I believe Fairy Tales that they claim to be “history” belongs in kindergartens where they make you believe that Santa Clause, the Christian St. Nicholas was a turk. “Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus” but his name has been changed to Santa Mehmet.

By the way, Francis Church, the editor author of that article was born and lived in my backyard, so to speak.

http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

PS. In the Marash Armenian vernacular/ gavarakan Santa Claus is known as “santiclos/sandiglos”, probably a legacy of Latin missionaries.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Arpa

[gamavor]

We are in general disagreement but that is fine as long as we talk about it.

 

You said:

in all of turkey if you also count the forced-assimilated armenians including hamshetsis there are in general about 3 million armenians in turkey at present . i hope it is logic to you that an forced-assimilated armenian in turkey is officially counted as a moslem turk and not a turkish armenian . religion is stated in the turkish ID's and it used to be written also in the passports some 30 years ago.

 

Hot! We are getting closer. I DO NOT count those as Armenians at all. I'm sure you are aware that this is not only my personal opinion, but the opinion of the majority of Diaspora Armenians. No matter if they were forced or willingly went over the other side of the fence. If we count every single individual possessing Armenian genes you would come to dreadful conclusions.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the benevolent work some Bolsahays do and they have my deepest respects. To name a few, Garo Armen and Yerganian family. May God bless them. However, the large majority of Bolsahays associate themselves with the country of their citizenship-nothing wrong with that, except that that country happens to be the so-called Turkey.

 

Armenians holding Turkish passports and fighting for their rights are basically fighting for better and democratic Turkey, not Armenia. In that sense, they are not different from Turkish patriots like Orhan Pamuk, Taner Akcham and handful of others who realize that the only way to save this country is by acknowledging past crimes and moving forward towards EU membership. My respects for their work and activity. But what exactly is patriotic in their political struggle from Armenian perspective? NOTHING! ZERO! They are irrelevant! They are Turkish patriots.

 

On a personal level, most so-called Turkish Armenians are typical oriental ass holes. They believe that Turkey is the only civilized country in the region, and beyond Turkey there is the vast nothingness. This is prime example of the above mentioned turkification. Proven and effective brainwashing – Washington style. Turkish Armenians often complain that Armenians from Armenian are “gosht”. Yeah, if they had to undergo half of the things that they went through the “civilized” chosen turkahyes would have been “gosht” too. I can bring many examples of how turkahyes perceive Armenia and Armenians, and every time I would like to address them with “DZO EShol ESHEK”but would stop here not to offend anybody. It is really sad, that the enemy achieved so much on a psychological level for such a short time.

 

[Johannes]

Փշրանքով ուրախացող ազգ ենք: Մէկն ըսաւ 70 հազար Հայաստանի Հ.էնէն եկած հայ կ'աշխատի, այսպէս կոչուած՝ «թուրքիոյ» մէջ: «Ազգ»ի համացանցային էջին վրայ կարդացեր էի, սակայն չէի ուզած արտատպել Տրապիզոնի մէջ աշխատող այդ «nunny»ներուն մասին, թէ ինչպէս բացայայտուած է կաւատութեամբ զբաղող Հ.Հ. քաղաքացի հայը:

 

Բնական պայմաններով (առանց Հ.Ց. եւ առանց 1894-1896 ջարդերուն) այժմ այդ «թուրքիա» կոչուած երկրին մէջ, հայ ժողովուրդը առնուազն 25-30 միլիոն պիտի ըլլար: Նկատեցէք 1914 թուին քուրդերը որքա՞ն էին. այժմ որքան:

 

Մահմեդական հայերն ալ 2,5 միլիոն համարելն ալ մեղմ ըսելով՝ սխալ է: Համշէնցիները այդքան չեն, բացի այդ անոնց թերեւս 10% տոկոսը ինքզինք հայ կը համարէ, կամ հայ ցեղեէն սերած:

 

Բարին ընդ ձեզ

 

 

[DeLaLa]

Gamavor , your oppinions are racist and primitive . your arguments have no arm and no leg .

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RljGoNZD8I

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-335857292932517366

 

Edited July 23, 2007 by DeLaLa

[gamavor]

I still don't understand what exactly Armenian is about these people. Their country is Turkey, their language is Turkish, their religion is Islamic, their way of life is Islamic, they praise Turkey left and right, so what is Armenian about these people?

 

Isn't it just a matter of convenience? Kind of I'm Turk in Turkey, but Armenian abroad?

 

[DeLaLa]

I still don't understand what exactly Armenian is about these people. Their country is Turkey, their language is Turkish, their religion is Islamic, their way of life is Islamic, they praise Turkey left and right, so what is Armenian about these people?

 

Isn't it just a matter of convenience? Kind of I'm Turk in Turkey, but Armenian abroad?

 

gamavor , you or me could have been one of them today ! think , before you write .

[gamavor]

gamavor , you or me could have been one of them today ! think , before you write .

 

Nope! I rather pack and get the hell out of there. So, count me out!

[DeLaLa]

why dont you pack and move to armenia?

[gamavor]

Thats what i'm planning to do sweety!

[DeLaLa]

Thats what i'm planning to do sweety!

 

when?

 

lol , almost all armenians from armenia tell me this : i will go back to armenia , blablabla ...

Edited July 24, 2007 by DeLaLa

[gamavor]

You ask too many questions. Are you a turk?

[DeLaLa]

You ask too many questions. Are you a turk?

 

ohlala, another paranoid armenian ... lol

[gamavor]

Thank you for the clarification

[DeLaLa]

Thank you for the clarification

 

thats the stereotype question armenians ask if they dont like someone : "are you a turk? "

 

lol

Edited July 24, 2007 by DeLaLa